Re: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses

[Ed]

Are you serious, Daevid??

<>

AOL = LOTS!!!

PITA!!

Ed
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Re: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses

[Mark Sapiro]

Daevid Vincent wrote:

>Yeah, except the problem is that most servers just silently "accept" on
>behalf of that person. Ever get a bounce back from hotmail, AOL, or any
>other big ISP? NO.


Actually, I see bounces from AOL all the time for lots of reasons
ranging from "non-existent user" to "we didn't like a URL in the body
of your message". What they don't bounce is messages they accept and
put in a 'spam' folder.


>This is _exactly_ why I asked for a "re-confirm subscription" request. 
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1504204&group_id=103&atid=100103


Which was just submitted as a bug and duplicates your RFE of a couple
of weeks ago at
.

It doesn't really help to re-submit what is really a feature request as
a bug. It just clutters up the tracker and makes the task of fixing
things seem more daunting than it really is.

If you're just trying to ping us to see if we're paying attention, it
would be much better to add a comment to your original request.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question

[Jim Popovitch]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
  > I think I prefer something like
> 
> # Previous message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
> # Next message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
> # Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

This example makes sense to me.

-Jim P.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question

[Mark Sapiro]

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>   Ahh.  In which case, we should probably change the tag info to 
>indicate that the previous and next message are by thread.  Having a 
>"(by thread)" comment after the "previous" and "next" links would 
>probably be sufficient.


I'm ready to make the change, but I wonder about the actual appearance.
Here's an example of the current

# Previous message: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
# Next message: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
# Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

Brad seems to be suggesting something like

# Previous message: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
# Next message: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
  (by thread)
# Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

I think I prefer something like

# Previous message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
# Next message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
# Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

Any other thoughts/examples/opinions?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses

[Daevid Vincent]

Yeah, except the problem is that most servers just silently "accept" on
behalf of that person. Ever get a bounce back from hotmail, AOL, or any
other big ISP? NO.

This is _exactly_ why I asked for a "re-confirm subscription" request. 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1504204&group_id=10
3&atid=100103

:(

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> On Behalf Of Patrick Bogen
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:10 AM
> To: Mark Sapiro
> Cc: mailman-users@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
> 
> On 6/8/06, Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >I was reviewing one of my lists today and recognize 
> several email addresses
> > >for recipients who are long since moved, and whose 
> addresses are likely
> > >dead.
> > >
> > >How does Mailman manage these?
> > In accord with the settings on the list admin Bounce 
> processing page.
> 
> To be a bit more precise, the way this works is that Mailman goes
> ahead and sends messages to these addresses. If the bounce (that is,
> the remove server sends a message back saying that the original
> message was undeliverable), bounce processing takes over. In general,
> after some number of bounces occur (not on the same day) within some
> time period, the account will be disabled, and eventually deleted.
> 
> -- 
> - Patrick Bogen
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question

[Brad Knowles]

At 4:50 PM -0700 2006-06-10, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  Yes. This is the way it works. There are periodic (monthly) index files
>  in thread, subject, author and date order, but there is only one HTML
>  file per message and that one file is linked from all four index
>  files, but the previous and next links are actually in the HTML
>  message file, and they are previous and next in thread regardless of
>  how you got to the message.

Ahh.  In which case, we should probably change the tag info to 
indicate that the previous and next message are by thread.  Having a 
"(by thread)" comment after the "previous" and "next" links would 
probably be sufficient.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
 Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See .
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question

[Mark Sapiro]

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>When viewing a pipermail (MM 2.1.8) list archive by Date, is it normal 
>for "Previous message" and "Next message" to navigate to the previous 
>and next by Thread rather than by Date?


Yes. This is the way it works. There are periodic (monthly) index files
in thread, subject, author and date order, but there is only one HTML
file per message and that one file is linked from all four index
files, but the previous and next links are actually in the HTML
message file, and they are previous and next in thread regardless of
how you got to the message.

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[Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question

[Jim Popovitch]

When viewing a pipermail (MM 2.1.8) list archive by Date, is it normal 
for "Previous message" and "Next message" to navigate to the previous 
and next by Thread rather than by Date?

-Jim P.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings

[Mark Sapiro]

Eli Tuber wrote:

>I actually like the idea that the user can control the breakdown size and
>the amount of members that are listed per page. Personally as long as the
>list is sorted finding the users should not be very hard on a moderate size
>list.
>
>This is my first time posting on this users group. What would it take to
>have this changes take place? I could really use them for my groups. :-)


The most effective easy thing would be to visit the existing RFE at

and add your comments and support for the idea.

You could also add a comment at


The most effective but not easy thing is to implement it your self in a
style that is consistent with the existing Mailman base and submit it
as a patch. This requires in addition to the obvious knowledge of
Python programming, reading lots of Mailman code and the guides
"Python coding style guide for Mailman"
 and "Style Guide for
Python Code" .

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[Mailman-Users] If your list uses Topics, I need your help

[Mark Sapiro]

In Mailman 2.1.8 ane prior, there are several problems with Topics.

The help says that you can put keywords one per line in a topic regexp.
This does not work. Also, the Topics regexp is compiled in 'verbose'
mode which means that spaces which are intended to be significant in
the regexp must be inside a bracketed 'character class' or preceded by
a backslash, and hash mark ('#') which is not in a 'class' or preceded
by a backslash introduces a comment which is not part of the regexp.
This too is not mentioned in the help for Topics.

These things have caused problems for people wanting to use Topics.
Some people have figured out how to create topic regexps that work,
but it can be a tedious process to do this.

I propose to change this for Mailman 2.2. My thought is that topic
regexps will no longer be compiled in 'verbose' mode and that
multiline topic regexps will be joined with the OR operator ('|') when
compiled for use so that a topic regexp of, for example,

 one
 two
 three

will actually be equivalent to

 one|two|three

and will match a Subject: or Keywords: header/line containing any one
or more of the three words 'one', 'two' or 'three'.

The problem comes about with lists that have topic regexps which
currently span multiple lines and possible contain comments. An
example might be

 one|# This is the first word in the list
 two|# and the second
 three   # and the last, any one of which will match.

Clearly, I can't just join these lines with '|' and compile in
non-verbose mode as this would include the comments and
non-significant white space in the resulting pattern.

My proposal is to convert existing topic regexps to an equivalent,
single line, non-verbose regexp as the list is upgraded when the
instalation upgrades to 2.2, This would result in the above being
changed to

 one|two|three

which would be saved as the regexp for that Topic.

My question (the help I'm soliciting) is does anyone have a problem
with this? To the best of my ability to code it, the Topic would
continue to function exactly as before. The only visible change would
be that the contents of the Regexp box for that topic would change
from the multiline form with comments to a single line without
comments.

So, do you currently have any topic regexps on multiple lines and/or
with comments, and if so would you be disturbed if they were converted
to a single line with the comments and insignificant white space
stripped?

Also, if you have such, and the regexps are more complicated than the
above example, can you send the multiline regexp(s) to me for testing
(off list with subject "Mailman topic regexp" if you don't want to
post them).

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Re: [Mailman-Users] List owner not getting bounce notifications

[Mark Sapiro]

KENNEY, William P. (Info. Tech. Services) wrote:

>This is a new list, so there haven't been many deliveries. The owner
>added the users herself and needs to know if anyone is actually
>receiving the mail from the list. She hasn't gotten anything from the
>server.
>
>When she asked if I could tell if the messages were being transmitted I
>had just received 4 smtp failure notifications as root on the system.
>Since her list has more than 4 users, I have to believe the rest went
>out.


Were these for 4 different addresses or 4 notices for 1 address. If
four different addresses, that modifies the details of what I say
below, but not the important message.

Anyway, from Mailman's point of view, the message 'went out' to all
recipients (unless there is some error in Mailman's 'smtp-failure' log
which I doubt), and subsequently, Mailman was notified that 4 messages
were not delivered to 1 recipient, or 1 message was not delivered to 4
recipients, or 2 messages were not delivered to 2 recipients, or ??


>I told her to add me to the list and send a test message out. If I
>receive it I'll know the system is working, if not I'll check with the
>network group to see if they have changed anything in the firewall.


Look in Mailman's 'bounce' log. You should see bounces recorded for the
four notices you received.

If so, after the 5th bounce for that user, the member's delivery will
be disabled and the owner will receive a 'disabled' notice with a copy
of the bounce, and after three weeks (and three notices to the
member), the member will be removed from the list and the owner will
be notified of that too.

You can also look in Mailman's 'smtp' log and see that posts are being
sent.

It seems as if posts are being sent to the entire list and one member
is bouncing. Ultimately, there is no way to know if the other members
are receiving the mail or not, but at least you know it is being
accepted by some remote SMTP server, and bounces are not being
returned.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] List owner not getting bounce notifications

[Mark Sapiro]

KENNEY, William P. (Info. Tech. Services) wrote:

>The owner is not receiving any notifications


Does the owner receive other notifications that might be enabled. I.e.
notifications of subscribe/unsubscribe, held messages, etc.?


>The owner address is correct
>
>The following is a smtp admin error:
>
>***
>The following recipient(s) could not be reached:
>
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 6/9/2006 10:52 AM
>The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this
>message was sent to.  Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient
>directly to find out the correct address.
>< ecsulsvr.easternct.edu #5.1.1 SMTP; 550 5.1.1
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... User unknown
>
>***
>
>This tells me that the system is sending mail, the other 25 were sent
>from the system without error. The list owner can contact the individual
>to get an updated address.
>
>The main problem is that the list owner isn't notified of the issue with
>the address.
>
>The numeric values on the bounce processing page are default, all no/yes
>values are set to yes.


Owners do not receive notifications of recognized individual bounces.
Owners are only notified (if requested) when a bounce is unrecognized
or a member is disabled due to bounce or ultimately unsubscribed due
to bounce.

Check Mailman's 'bounce' log to see if the bounces are being recorded.
If so, and if this has been going on for some time without the member
being disabled, consider adjusting the numeric settings to prevent
bounce info from going stale on this list.

It is also possible that VERP probes are enabled and there is an issue
with delivery to VERP-like addresses in your system. In this case, you
will see entries like "sending  list probe to: 
(score 5.0 >= 5.0)" in the bounce log, followed by a reset of the
bounce score, but no disable. If this is the case, see the thread
"VERP active where it shouldn't" starting at

for additional information.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan


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