Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
Brad, and all, Firstly, thanks, for all the responses on an OT type question. I have learned quite a bit. - Original Message - From: Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bernd Petrovitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: mailman-users@python.org Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output At 11:38 PM +0200 2006-06-13, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote: I think that this would require a second MTA instance -- the Does this mean using a second sendmail.cf or more like a second queue runner? You want that probably anyway since you probably don't want your MTA accept 22.000 emails on a public interface in one rush (and I actually don't remember out of my head how mailman really inject mails. 1 mail with a long list of rcpt-to:?). Mailman can do that, depending on how you configure the MAX_SMTP_RCPTS parameter. first instance of sendmail (or whatever MTA) would simply take everything that Mailman gives it and then store that in the queue. This would be different from a normal sendmail (or other MTA) configuration, where immediate delivery would normally be attempted. Yes. But normally you don't throw 22.000 emails at once on your MTA. But if my list has 22,000 members, isn't that what I am doing? Or is it dependent on the MAX_SMTP_RCPTS parameter, as mentioned above? I'm not clear on your train of thought. True. And if you do this normally, you shouldn't need any throttling or other special behaviour at all - just enough hardware. Right now, hardware is fine. This all came about because of mail list software (not Mailman) that does a few things it shouldn't be doing. Firstly, it's running on a dedicated web server. This was sort of out of my control. When the list starts outputting, the web sites suffer, but do not fail to respond. Secondly, the mail list software does not seem to handle bounce conditions. When the list sends to non-existent members, bounces are returned through one of our primary MX gateways, which tend to clog it up. Thirdly, a lot of the above bounces are from AOL, Verizon, etc, which have deemed the list sort of abusive, and do not accept mail from the list, even though this is purely a subscription type mailing, so I wanted to switch to Mailman for the bounce handling, and throttle so as not to infuriate the AOLs and Verizons. Also true. Then, additional queue runners are called to start processing that queue and pushing those messages out, but they go through an additional instance of sendmail, where the throttling milter is used. Just limit/throttle the MTA itself (sendmail has several options for this like number of proceses, etc. and I assume that other MTAs like postfix, exim, qmail allow this too in similar ways). Yeah, but so far as I know, none of those mechanisms control the number of messages that are sent per period of time. They control the number of a given set of processes you can have at any given period of time, but that has only the smallest impact on the number of messages sent per hour. Does this include the MAX_QUEUE_RUN_SIZE, which I interpret as number of envelops to send per queue runner instance? You would also need to make sure that the first instance of sendmail (or whatever MTA) is not configured to generate Delivery Status Notices (DSNs) for delayed messages, because you know for a fact that some messages are going to be delayed for a significant period of time, and you don't want those kinds of warnings clouding the picture for Mailman. Another sendmail question - how do you snuff the DSN for a sendmail instance? Wouldn't the queueonly delivery method do that, or is there a problem after that? Of course. But the standard/usual delay of 4 hours or so should be large enough though (and I don't see a problem in raising that limit). I'm not convinced. If you've got a list of 22,000 recipients and a limit of 1000 recipients per hour, it's probably going to take a lot longer than four hours to get out all those messages. I do remain convinced that if you're trying to do throttling because your provider requires it, that you are most definitely using the wrong provider. Our network bandwidth provider does not limit our output, and this is not the case at all. Thanks for all the answers and questions. Steve -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 LOPSA member since December 2005. See http://www.lopsa.org/. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives:
Re: [Mailman-Users] 404 for pipermail - where's the data live?
Dennis Carr wrote: Suffice it to say, I've followed these directions, yet I'm still getting the 404. What am I doing wrong? What is the 'Alias /pipermail/' directive in your httpd.conf? What is the path to Mailman's archives/ directory? What do the following show? ls -l /path/to/archives/ ls -l /path/to/archives/private/ ls -l /path/to/archives/public/ What URI gives the 404? What's in the apache error-log file for this 404? -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
At 8:58 AM -0400 2006-06-14, Steve Campbell wrote: Yes. But normally you don't throw 22.000 emails at once on your MTA. But if my list has 22,000 members, isn't that what I am doing? Maybe, but not necessarily. Or is it dependent on the MAX_SMTP_RCPTS parameter, as mentioned above? Yes, it is. If you have VERP and/or personalization turned on, then you are actually sending a unique copy of each message to each recipient, and the MAX_SMTP_RCPTS parameter does not come into play. Secondly, the mail list software does not seem to handle bounce conditions. That's bad news. Really bad. When the list sends to non-existent members, bounces are returned through one of our primary MX gateways, which tend to clog it up. Mailing list traffic should be independent of your main mail servers. If the recipient machines are acting correctly, none of their bounces should be going back to the main mail servers, and mailing list traffic should not affect them. Thirdly, a lot of the above bounces are from AOL, Verizon, etc, which have deemed the list sort of abusive, and do not accept mail from the list, even though this is purely a subscription type mailing, so I wanted to switch to Mailman for the bounce handling, and throttle so as not to infuriate the AOLs and Verizons. If your mailing list software is not handling bounces properly, then I think I would have probably declared it to be spam-ish myself. That said, now that you've annoyed AOL and others, you're not going to get on their good side just by switching to Mailman. You'll also need to get on their whitelist system. Yeah, but so far as I know, none of those mechanisms control the number of messages that are sent per period of time. They control the number of a given set of processes you can have at any given period of time, but that has only the smallest impact on the number of messages sent per hour. Does this include the MAX_QUEUE_RUN_SIZE, which I interpret as number of envelops to send per queue runner instance? Yes, but if each envelope is to 500 people (or less), then you'll need to set your MAX_QUEUE_RUN_SIZE to an appropriately small number. More importantly, you'll need to make sure that you never allow more than one queue runner to be running at a time, and no more than one queue runner to be run per hour (or whatever). This is not likely to clear your mail queues in a reasonable period of time, and the actual amount of mail throughput per hour will be exceptionally bursty. Even then, it will only approximate the real controls that you want, which is the number of recipients that are delivered per hour, and only in the vaguest possible manner. Trust me, if you're actually going to do throttling, you need to do it in a better and more controlled way. Another sendmail question - how do you snuff the DSN for a sendmail instance? Wouldn't the queueonly delivery method do that, or is there a problem after that? The best way to do that is to change the period of time after which sendmail would generate a DSN for a given message based on how long that message has been in the queue. You do this by changing the sendmail.cf. Our network bandwidth provider does not limit our output, and this is not the case at all. In that case, with a more intelligent configuration and a better mailing list manager, I don't think you're going to need throttling. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 LOPSA member since December 2005. See http://www.lopsa.org/. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
Brad, Ok, I've went around the world with this one, so maybe a fresh start is in order. I'm sure everyone is getting tired of seeing these Throttling output messages, especially the ones that don't digest. The more I think about it, the less complex it really becomes, thanks to all of the replies. So here is what I'm thinking and if someone steps on any point, sobeit, and I'll just about give up on this one. 1. Set up a Mailman list in a normal fashion. 2. Disable the mailman executable from delivering the outgoing mail, but create them in the queue (sort of a sendmail queueonly option). I'm not sure this one is possible, and will kill the entire scheme if not. I see a lot of possible ways this can be done, but I'm not a python programmer yet, so I hope this is do-able. 3 Run a sendmail qrunner with the specific -q option along with the proper -OMaxQueueRunSize option. This would point to the normal mqueue directory, or wherever Mailman puts the output files. This is fairly tunable upon a few runs. The MAX_SMTP_RCPTS config, -q, and -O commandline options should be enough. 4. Let the dept. that set this up resolve the AOL/Verizon thing. The IT dept didn't have much 'request for input' on this one. 5. Move all of this to it's own server. Number 2 above is the killer, as I'm not sure if the sendmail alias/piped command would control this, an option in the Mailman configs, or what. But all of this doesn't require a milter, is common sendmail stuff, and a slight change in the way Mailman handles the outgoing files (or maybe not). No queuegroups necessary either. Don't know why it didn't hit me originally. Thanks, and maybe this will go away if anyone can tell me about #2. Steve -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
At 3:02 PM -0400 2006-06-14, Steve Campbell wrote: 2. Disable the mailman executable from delivering the outgoing mail, but create them in the queue (sort of a sendmail queueonly option). I'm not sure this one is possible, and will kill the entire scheme if not. I see a lot of possible ways this can be done, but I'm not a python programmer yet, so I hope this is do-able. This is an MTA configuration issue. There's nothing here to fix within Mailman. 5. Move all of this to it's own server. That's a pretty big point. Mailing list servers should not be dependent on the normal mail servers, and vice-versa. In fact, I suspect that once you move the mailing list handling onto a separate server, all the need for any kind of throttling will go away completely. Number 2 above is the killer, as I'm not sure if the sendmail alias/piped command would control this, an option in the Mailman configs, or what. It's an issue that should be easy enough to fix through modifying the configuration file. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 LOPSA member since December 2005. See http://www.lopsa.org/. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
- Original Message - From: Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Steve Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailman-users@python.org Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output At 3:02 PM -0400 2006-06-14, Steve Campbell wrote: 2. Disable the mailman executable from delivering the outgoing mail, but create them in the queue (sort of a sendmail queueonly option). I'm not sure this one is possible, and will kill the entire scheme if not. I see a lot of possible ways this can be done, but I'm not a python programmer yet, so I hope this is do-able. This is an MTA configuration issue. There's nothing here to fix within Mailman. I think I just discovered that Mailman does deliver to the mqueue directory. I don't know where I got the idea that it delivered outgoing mail on its own. So yes, nothing to fix, just set up the proper outgoing queue runner with a few sendmail configs. 5. Move all of this to it's own server. That's a pretty big point. Mailing list servers should not be dependent on the normal mail servers, and vice-versa. In fact, I suspect that once you move the mailing list handling onto a separate server, all the need for any kind of throttling will go away completely. Along with switching to Mailman, of course, to finally handle bounces. Number 2 above is the killer, as I'm not sure if the sendmail alias/piped command would control this, an option in the Mailman configs, or what. It's an issue that should be easy enough to fix through modifying the configuration file. I hope you mean sendmail configuration file!!! Thanks all for the many replies (and great patience), and helping me understand a little more of how Mailman works. Steve -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 LOPSA member since December 2005. See http://www.lopsa.org/. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] post with members name
Hello, Is ist posible to use the members name from mailman, than the name providet by the email-client, for posting ? I tried to set alias for mailman but when sending a mail the name stored in the e-mail client has a higher priority. thanks, Haluk -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
At 4:43 PM -0400 2006-06-14, Steve Campbell wrote: This is an MTA configuration issue. There's nothing here to fix within Mailman. I think I just discovered that Mailman does deliver to the mqueue directory. It has it's own internal queue directory, yes. But it does not deliver directly to the MTA mqueue directory, no. Instead, it hands the message off to the MTA that it is configured to use -- usually port 25 on the localhost. I don't know where I got the idea that it delivered outgoing mail on its own. So yes, nothing to fix, just set up the proper outgoing queue runner with a few sendmail configs. Not correct. The easiest way would be to run two copies of the MTA on your machine. One copy listens on port 25, and runs normally. This is for inbound mail. The other copy of sendmail listens on a different port (maybe port 26) on the localhost interface only, and on the command-line you give it a different configuration file to work from -- that configuration file causes the second copy of sendmail to work in queueonly mode, does not have any queue runners, and has a different mqueue directory. You then control the queue runners for that second instance of sendmail yourself. You then configure Mailman to deliver all outgoing mail to this second copy of sendmail. I still think that this is not a good configuration for doing throttling, because you have only indirect controls over the number of message deliveries that occur in a given unit of time. The milter technique would be a much more direct method of control over throttling. It's an issue that should be easy enough to fix through modifying the configuration file. I hope you mean sendmail configuration file!!! Yes. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 LOPSA member since December 2005. See http://www.lopsa.org/. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] problems in posting to a list
i am an administrator (but i didn't install it nor do i have access to the
server) of an announcement only mailing list.
despite having 3 addresses listed as administrator and moderator, we have
only been able to use one address to post. that was ok till last week when
we were subject to a spoofing attack appearing to come from that address.
i removed that address, having forgotten about the problem in posting from
the others. now i cannot post to the list at all even though i returned the
removed address.
for each i get back a this is an announcement list - send your email to
for posting and now even cannot post.
so the problem is that even though listed as admin/mod i cannot post.
(i can get around this by holding posts and then approving them but i'd
rather post directly)
thanks
harold ...
Harold Goldstein - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~,__o ~^^
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[Mailman-Users] Moved servers, lists not working
I moved a bunch of accounts from one server to another. Everything transferred, lists, archives, settings, etc. But when subscribers send an email to any of the lists they messages don't get distributed, or in the case of moderated lists, the messages don't go in to the moderator que. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman 2.1.4
On 6/13/06, Bob Bergey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:57 AM -0500 on 6/13/06, Patrick Bogen wrote: http://rentzsch.com/macosx/mailmanWorkaround Wow -- that's exactly my problem! Thanks for the tip -- I'll try it later today. Let us know how it goes. I'm a little scared to upgrade -- still running OS 10.3.9 on my Xserve, and have been reluctant to upgrade Mailman, mainly because I'm just not familiar with the process. Have you upgraded Mailman on an Xserve, and had any problems? I haven't; all of our machines are Debian GNU/Linux. The upgrade should be fairly standard, but don't take my word for it. If you can, it might be wiser to try the upgrade on a different machine (another, similar Xserve, but one you don't rely on for a functional mailman) to get the feel of it. P.S., Please CC the list on all replies. -- - Patrick Bogen -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] problems in posting to a list
On 6/14/06, Harold Goldstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i am an administrator (but i didn't install it nor do i have access to the server) of an announcement only mailing list. despite having 3 addresses listed as administrator and moderator, we have only been able to use one address to post. that was ok till last week when we were subject to a spoofing attack appearing to come from that address. The 'administrator' and 'moderator' addresses aren't considered when determining if a message is to be allowed. Any addresses you'd like to accept mail from, add to 'accept_these_nonmembers' under 'Sender filters' under 'Privacy Options' in the web interface. ALTERNATIVELY, include as the first line of your message: 'Approved: list admin password' (this is better, since it's totally proof against spoofing. Man-in-the-middle attacks, however, can theoretically intercept your mail on the way to the server, and get the password out of it. FYI.) -- - Patrick Bogen -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Moved servers, lists not working
On 6/14/06, Bob Morse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I moved a bunch of accounts from one server to another. Everything transferred, lists, archives, settings, etc. But when subscribers send an email to any of the lists they messages don't get distributed, or in the case of moderated lists, the messages don't go in to the moderator que. Can you check the various mailman and MTA logs to see if the mails are even reaching mailman? This sounds like an MTA setting to me. Aliases not set or not being obeyed? -- - Patrick Bogen -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] problems in posting to a list
thanks for your response
Any addresses you'd like to accept mail from, add to
'accept_these_nonmembers' under 'Sender filters' under 'Privacy
Options' in the web interface.
hmmm ... ok ... but why would i be considered a 'non-member' ... i never
would have guessed to use this.
ALTERNATIVELY, include as the first line of your message: 'Approved: list
admin password' (this is better, since it's totally proof against spoofing.
an excellent approach ... i take it that the characters ARE included in
the above??
thanks again
harold ...
Harold Goldstein - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~,__o ~^^
Goldray Consulting: http://goldray.com/ ~_-\ , ~ o \
Web Development/Internet Training (*)/ (*) ~ / { \
Save The Apes: http://bushmeat.net/ / { o}
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Re: [Mailman-Users] post with members name
Haluk Durmus wrote: Is ist posible to use the members name from mailman, than the name providet by the email-client, for posting ? I tried to set alias for mailman but when sending a mail the name stored in the e-mail client has a higher priority. It's not a matter of priority. Unless the list is anonymous, Mailman doesn't change the From: header in the post at all. The member's real name is stored if provided and can be reported on some member lists. Beyond that, it is only provided in a header/footer replacement variable if the list is personalized and in the To: header if personalize is Full. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] problems in posting to a list
Harold Goldstein wrote: thanks for your response Any addresses you'd like to accept mail from, add to 'accept_these_nonmembers' under 'Sender filters' under 'Privacy Options' in the web interface. hmmm ... ok ... but why would i be considered a 'non-member' ... i never would have guessed to use this. Or, just turn off your mod flag in the membership list (assuming you are a member). ALTERNATIVELY, include as the first line of your message: 'Approved: list admin password' (this is better, since it's totally proof against spoofing. an excellent approach ... i take it that the characters ARE included in the above?? No, they aren't. And this is a better method because it is spoof proof. I.e. allow no one to post just because of who they claim to be - require the password. See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq03.011.htp and http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq03.034.htp. Also note that to use the Approved: pw as a first line, it must be in a plain text part which is the first plain text part of the message. Also, prior to Mailman 2.1.7, it must not be in any other parts such as a text/html alternative part, or it will leak to the list. The better method is to add it as an actual header, but many people's MUA's will not do this conveniently or at all. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] problems in posting to a list
On 6/14/06 6:38 PM, Harold Goldstein at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ALTERNATIVELY, include as the first line of your message: 'Approved: list admin password' (this is better, since it's totally proof against spoofing. an excellent approach ... i take it that the characters ARE included in the above?? No they are not. Just Approved: password -- Larry Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stonejongleux.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
Quoting Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED]: At 4:43 PM -0400 2006-06-14, Steve Campbell wrote: This is an MTA configuration issue. There's nothing here to fix within Mailman. I think I just discovered that Mailman does deliver to the mqueue directory. It has it's own internal queue directory, yes. But it does not deliver directly to the MTA mqueue directory, no. Instead, it hands the message off to the MTA that it is configured to use -- usually port 25 on the localhost. It eventually ends up there in mqueue, I saw, but I couldn't see how. I did know that there is a nice array defined in Defaults.py, and the input and output queues are in and out respectively. I also say an SMTPPORT config there, but wasn't sure if these could be overridden by site/list mm_cfg.py files. I don't know where I got the idea that it delivered outgoing mail on its own. So yes, nothing to fix, just set up the proper outgoing queue runner with a few sendmail configs. Not correct. The easiest way would be to run two copies of the MTA on your machine. One copy listens on port 25, and runs normally. This is for inbound mail. The other copy of sendmail listens on a different port (maybe port 26) on the localhost interface only, and on the command-line you give it a different configuration file to work from -- that configuration file causes the second copy of sendmail to work in queueonly mode, does not have any queue runners, and has a different mqueue directory. You then control the queue runners for that second instance of sendmail yourself. You then configure Mailman to deliver all outgoing mail to this second copy of sendmail. I'm assuming you mean separate sendmail.cf files here when you say 'copy'. I'd have to think how the second one would differ, and that just running instances of sendmail configured on the command line wouldn't cut it (much like MailScanner does, if you're familiar with it's startup scripts). I still think that this is not a good configuration for doing throttling, because you have only indirect controls over the number of message deliveries that occur in a given unit of time. The milter technique would be a much more direct method of control over throttling. OK, I guess I need to sit down and try out these both. I'm going to set up a test box tomorrow, and see how both works. Of course, I can't simulate the load it should generate, but for now, I just want to make sure I can do it, period. I know I can get the milter working, but will have to play with the thousands of config options for sendmail. It's an issue that should be easy enough to fix through modifying the configuration file. Easy for you to say. I have read the Bat Book 2e scantilly, but you know how it is if you don't need something right away - you usually forget it. The test box will be running 8.13, which is new here, so a few new options. I hope you mean sendmail configuration file!!! Yes. I sure didn't get much right on the last post, huh? Thanks very much. You are much too kind and patient. Steve -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 LOPSA member since December 2005. See http://www.lopsa.org/. - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
Steve Campbell wrote: It eventually ends up there in mqueue, I saw, but I couldn't see how. I did know that there is a nice array defined in Defaults.py, and the input and output queues are in and out respectively. I also say an SMTPPORT config there, but wasn't sure if these could be overridden by site/list mm_cfg.py files. You can override in mm_cfg.py anything that's in Defaults.py, although sometimes it's tricky because if A is defined in Defaults.py and then later used in the definition of B in Defaults.py, changing A alone in mm_cfg.py won't affect the definition of B. A more concrete example is the definition of QUEUE_DIR in Defaults.py followed by definitions of INQUEUE_DIR, OUTQUEUE_DIR, etc. in terms of QUEUE_DIR. Changing QUEUE_DIR alone in mm_cfg.py won't change any actual paths to the queue directories because they have already been defined in terms of the original QUEUE_DIR. If you wanted to change them, you would also need to redefine INQUEUE_DIR, OUTQUEUE_DIR, etc. in mm_cfg.py. Note that some things in Defaults.py should not be overridden unless you really know what you're doing, but anything preceding the notation # # Nothing below here is user configurable. Most of these values are in this # file for internal system convenience. Don't change any of them or override # any of them in your mm_cfg.py file! # should be OK to change as required. Just for completeness here, as I think you've moved beyond this in your thinking, but here's how outgoing mail works. Outgoing messages are placed in the 'out' queue. This entry is one file (queue entry) per message and contains a list of all the recipients for that message. It is a Python pickle and is only intelligible to Python in a Mailman context. This queue entry is picked up by OutgoingRunner which calls DELIVERY_MODULE (normally SMTPDirect) to deliver it. SMTPDirect sorts the recipient list by domain and breaks it into chunks of size = 1 if personalization or VERP is being done, otherwise of size = SMTP_MAX_RCPTS. Then for each chunk, the message is decorated (Headers/footers, possibly personalized ard added) and delivered to the SMTP server at SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT in an SMTP transaction with one MAIL FROM, chunk size RCPT TOs and one DATA, and then the process repeats until all chunks are processed. If the message or any recipients are refused at this level for a non-permanent error, the message is put in the retry queue with the new (undelivered) recipients. If recipients are refused for a permanent error, it is treated as a bounce for those recipients. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
At 8:59 PM -0400 2006-06-14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also say an SMTPPORT config there, but wasn't sure if these could be overridden by site/list mm_cfg.py files. The definition of SMTPPORT and SMTPHOST are for the entire server, and cannot be over-ridden on a per-list basis. You then configure Mailman to deliver all outgoing mail to this second copy of sendmail. I'm assuming you mean separate sendmail.cf files here when you say 'copy'. There are separate sendmail.cf files, yes. But since there is just one sendmail binary, you end up running two instances of sendmail -- one for each different version of the sendmail.cf file. I used the term second copy of sendmail, when it might have been more accurate to say second instance of sendmail. The meaning is the same, or at least that was the intent. The milter technique would be a much more direct method of control over throttling. OK, I guess I need to sit down and try out these both. I'm going to set up a test box tomorrow, and see how both works. Of course, I can't simulate the load it should generate, but for now, I just want to make sure I can do it, period. That's a very good idea. Make sure you understand how things work before you try to use them in earnest. It's an issue that should be easy enough to fix through modifying the configuration file. Easy for you to say. I have read the Bat Book 2e scantilly, but you know how it is if you don't need something right away - you usually forget it. I was technical reviewer for that book, and I can tell you that Bryan Costales and Eric Allman both keep copies on their desks because even they can't remember everything. You shouldn't chastise yourself for failing to be able to do what they can't do themselves. The test box will be running 8.13, which is new here, so a few new options. Yup. I hope you mean sendmail configuration file!!! Yes. I sure didn't get much right on the last post, huh? Close enough. ;) Thanks very much. You are much too kind and patient. I do my best. Sometimes I do better than others. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 LOPSA member since December 2005. See http://www.lopsa.org/. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
Jun 14 20:49:14 2006 (19227) Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding: japanese.euc-jp Jun 14 20:49:14 2006 (19227) Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py, line 111, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py, line 167, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/OutgoingRunner.py, line 73, in _dispose self._func(mlist, msg, msgdata) File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py, line 152, in process deliveryfunc(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, refused, conn) File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py, line 356, in bulkdeliver msgtext = msg.as_string() File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Message.py, line 208, in as_string g.flatten(self, unixfrom=unixfrom) File /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py, line 102, in flatten self._write(msg) File /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py, line 130, in _write self._dispatch(msg) File /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py, line 156, in _dispatch meth(msg) File /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Generator.py, line 197, in _handle_text payload = cset.body_encode(payload) File /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Charset.py, line 386, in body_encode s = self.convert(s) File /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Charset.py, line 269, in convert return unicode(s, self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec) LookupError: unknown encoding: japanese.euc-jp I have the above error in my logs. I need this Japanese encoding but my SuSE 10.0 dist does not stock it. Where can I find it so mailman can work with my Japanese mailing lists? Thanks, LDB -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
Lawrence Bowie wrote: LookupError: unknown encoding: japanese.euc-jp I have the above error in my logs. I need this Japanese encoding but my SuSE 10.0 dist does not stock it. Where can I find it so mailman can work with my Japanese mailing lists? The euc-jp codecs are included in a standard Mailman distribution and installed $prefix/pythonlib/japanese by the standard install. If they are not in your Mailman and you have a SuSE packaged Mailman, this would be a SuSE packaging issue. You can download the current Mailman 2.1.8 tarball which includes JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11 in the misc/ directory. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Japanese Character encoding
Mark Sapiro wrote: Lawrence Bowie wrote: LookupError: unknown encoding: japanese.euc-jp I have the above error in my logs. I need this Japanese encoding but my SuSE 10.0 dist does not stock it. Where can I find it so mailman can work with my Japanese mailing lists? The euc-jp codecs are included in a standard Mailman distribution and installed $prefix/pythonlib/japanese by the standard install. If they are not in your Mailman and you have a SuSE packaged Mailman, this would be a SuSE packaging issue. You can download the current Mailman 2.1.8 tarball which includes JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11 in the misc/ directory. How do i get my current mailman SuSE installation o recognize the JapaneseCodecs-1.4.11? Thanks, LDB -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
