[Mailman-Users] Getting users off old listserv

[heathcliff]

Hello,

We are all set to migrate our user community to Mailman, but we are at an 
impasse as to the most painless way to do this.  It is not enough to just 
inform them of the cut off date and send them a few lines of instructions or 
guides ahead of time.  Has anyone come across or devised a painless way to wean 
them off of the old listserv?  I have been checking around in the archives, but 
to no avail.
Any suggestions you can make would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Posting Problems

[Mark Sapiro]

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 3/5/07, Jeremy Bowen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I seem to be having an issue though. I cannot seem to post to the list no
>> matter what I do! I set myself as administrator and then restricted posts to
>> the list to admins. When I send an e-mail to the list it bounces even though
>> I am sending from the address listed as admin!
>
>Can you check Maimlan's 'vette' log and tell us exactly what it says
>for one of the rejected posts?

Or tell us what exactly is in the 'bounce' notification.

Also see
.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Posting Problems

[Patrick Bogen]

On 3/5/07, Jeremy Bowen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I seem to be having an issue though. I cannot seem to post to the list no
> matter what I do! I set myself as administrator and then restricted posts to
> the list to admins. When I send an e-mail to the list it bounces even though
> I am sending from the address listed as admin!

Can you check Maimlan's 'vette' log and tell us exactly what it says
for one of the rejected posts?

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- Patrick Bogen
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[Mailman-Users] Posting Problems

[Jeremy Bowen]

Greetings all,
 
I have just installed mailman and it looks like it will work really great
for what we need!
 
I seem to be having an issue though. I cannot seem to post to the list no
matter what I do! I set myself as administrator and then restricted posts to
the list to admins. When I send an e-mail to the list it bounces even though
I am sending from the address listed as admin!
 
I have looked through the doc's and changed this and that but to no avail!
 
HELP!!
 
Thanks,
 
Jeremy Bowen
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mime conversions - missing carriage returns andoddcharacters

[Mike Starr]

Butting in here where I probably don't belong (I'm speaking here more as a 
mailing list end user than as a list administrator) but as simple as that wish 
is, it ain't gonna happen. I subscribe to a number of mailing lists, some of 
them mailman powered, some of them lyris-powered and some of them 
yahoo-powered. I always subscribe to the digest version and while mailman and 
yahoo do the best job of building digests, no amount of harping, whining, 
cajoling and/or threatening will get end users to modify their email clients to 
use plain text and as far as more exotic settings like multipart/alternative it 
just ain't gonna happen. The best option I've seen is one list that blanket 
rejects any post in HTML. Getting end-users to go to plain text is a losing 
battle. 

>>> Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 03/05/07 11:53 AM >>>
If your client would post plain text or even multipart/alternative, we
wouldn't have to convert the html.

See  (hopefully it also
applies to Eudora 7.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mime conversions - missing carriage returns andoddcharacters

[Ryan Steele]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ryan Steele wrote:
>
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>>> Ryan Steele wrote:
>>>   
>>>   
 Mark Sapiro wrote:
 
 
> Do you have convert_html_to_plaintext set to Yes?
>   
>   
>   
 Affirmative, I do.
 
 
>>> Based on what I see, I don't think that is the problem.
>>>   
>
>
> It definitely IS the issue with this one. 
>   
>> I'm still working on getting the client to be able to consistently 
>> reproduce the character misrepresentation (UTF-8) issue, so I won't 
>> bother the list with that for now.  However, here's a good example of 
>> one with stripped carriage returns.  Sorry for the delay.  I didn't post 
>> this to the list because I didn't want a search engine spider crawling 
>> the information in the header... feel free to post a reply with those 
>> snipped!
>>
>> Before making it to the list (carriage return omission example):
>>
>> ##
>>
>> 
> 
>   
>> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9
>> Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
>> 
> 
>   
>> 
>> 
>> Hello, Ryan
>> I am writing each line flush left
>> And, I have inserted a CR between each line
>> I am copying you on the original
>> And sending a copy to test2
>> I think you'll see that the text shifts 2 spaces to the right
>> And that all the CRs are deleted
>> And that urls get footnoted.
>> For instance,
>>
>> http://www.odnetwork.org/"; eudora="autourl">www.odnetwork.org
>> 
>> Plus the url in my sig block
>> I am typing bold in bold and italics in italics
>> I hope that helps.
>> Bill you will also get a copy of this, which you can ignore.
>> Matt
>>
>> 
> 
> 
>   
>> 
>>
>> ##
>>
>> After making it to the list (carriage return omission example):
>>
>> ##
>>
>> 
> 
>   
>> X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8
>> 
> 
>   
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> 
> 
>   
>>
>>   Hello, Ryan
>>   I am writing each line flush left
>>   And, I have inserted a CR between each line
>>   I am copying you on the original
>>   And sending a copy to test2
>>   I think you'll see that the text shifts 2 spaces to the right
>>   And that all the CRs are deleted
>>   And that urls get footnoted.
>>   For instance, [1]www.odnetwork.org
>>   Plus the url in my sig block
>>   I am typing bold in bold and italics in italics
>>   I hope that helps.
>>   Bill you will also get a copy of this, which you can ignore.
>>   Matt
>>
>> 
> 
>   
>> References
>>
>>   1. http://www.odnetwork.org/
>> 
> 
>
>
> The original post was html only, thus it was converted to plain text.
> The indentation and footnoting of hyperlinks is all done by your
> HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND (default = '/usr/bin/lynx -dump
> %(filename)s'). I'm not sure what 'carriage returns' are missing, but
> if you're referring to the html that renders as double spaces being
> renderd single spaced, that's lynx too. If you prefer a double spaced
> rendering, you can put
>
> HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND = '/usr/bin/links -dump %(filename)s'
>
> in mm_cfg.py to replace lynx with links (verify that you have links and
> that is the correct path). The rest of what links does with this is
> very similar to what lynx does.
>   

I do have links, and I can confirm that is the correct path (at least on 
my Debian Sarge boxes).  It appears that his Eudora client is configured 
to send in html, and that the two carriage returns after each line are 
being written as two break tags; I understand why that would render as a 
single carriage return in that regard.  Nonetheless, I will check out 
links - thank you for the suggestion.

> If in the other cases, we are converting utf-8 html to plain text, I
> think that explains why we 'lose' the character set. I think there are
> definitely problems in this area. It didn't look like that was the
> issue from a previous post, but as the messages were incomplete in
> that example, I may have misinterpreted what was happening.
>
>   

There are other users from Europe whose character sets are UTF-8 and who 
are sending in HTML to boot (like one of the messages I posted before), 
so that was happening (I believe) for those users - but as I mentioned 
before, I want to get something I can consistently reproduce before 
bothering the list with any of that.  Bugs that can't be reproduced are 
of no help IMHO, and I'm sure in the eyes of most developers as well.  I 
will try to get an example of this for you where I've been CC'ed in 
addition to the list, if I can.

> If your client would post plain text or even multipart/alternative, we
> wouldn't have to convert the html.
>
>   

True; the problem is there is a very lar

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mime conversions - missing carriage returns andoddcharacters

[Mark Sapiro]

Ryan Steele wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Ryan Steele wrote:
>>   
>>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> 
 Do you have convert_html_to_plaintext set to Yes?
   
   
>>> Affirmative, I do.
>>> 
>>
>>
>> Based on what I see, I don't think that is the problem.


It definitely IS the issue with this one. 
>I'm still working on getting the client to be able to consistently 
>reproduce the character misrepresentation (UTF-8) issue, so I won't 
>bother the list with that for now.  However, here's a good example of 
>one with stripped carriage returns.  Sorry for the delay.  I didn't post 
>this to the list because I didn't want a search engine spider crawling 
>the information in the header... feel free to post a reply with those 
>snipped!
>
>Before making it to the list (carriage return omission example):
>
>##
>

>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9
>Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

>
>
>
>Hello, Ryan
>I am writing each line flush left
>And, I have inserted a CR between each line
>I am copying you on the original
>And sending a copy to test2
>I think you'll see that the text shifts 2 spaces to the right
>And that all the CRs are deleted
>And that urls get footnoted.
>For instance,
>
>http://www.odnetwork.org/"; eudora="autourl">www.odnetwork.org
>
>Plus the url in my sig block
>I am typing bold in bold and italics in italics
>I hope that helps.
>Bill you will also get a copy of this, which you can ignore.
>Matt
>


>
>
>##
>
>After making it to the list (carriage return omission example):
>
>##
>

>X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8

>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>
>
>
>   Hello, Ryan
>   I am writing each line flush left
>   And, I have inserted a CR between each line
>   I am copying you on the original
>   And sending a copy to test2
>   I think you'll see that the text shifts 2 spaces to the right
>   And that all the CRs are deleted
>   And that urls get footnoted.
>   For instance, [1]www.odnetwork.org
>   Plus the url in my sig block
>   I am typing bold in bold and italics in italics
>   I hope that helps.
>   Bill you will also get a copy of this, which you can ignore.
>   Matt
>

>
>References
>
>   1. http://www.odnetwork.org/



The original post was html only, thus it was converted to plain text.
The indentation and footnoting of hyperlinks is all done by your
HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND (default = '/usr/bin/lynx -dump
%(filename)s'). I'm not sure what 'carriage returns' are missing, but
if you're referring to the html that renders as double spaces being
renderd single spaced, that's lynx too. If you prefer a double spaced
rendering, you can put

HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND = '/usr/bin/links -dump %(filename)s'

in mm_cfg.py to replace lynx with links (verify that you have links and
that is the correct path). The rest of what links does with this is
very similar to what lynx does.

If in the other cases, we are converting utf-8 html to plain text, I
think that explains why we 'lose' the character set. I think there are
definitely problems in this area. It didn't look like that was the
issue from a previous post, but as the messages were incomplete in
that example, I may have misinterpreted what was happening.

If your client would post plain text or even multipart/alternative, we
wouldn't have to convert the html.

See  (hopefully it also
applies to Eudora 7.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] Nomail members

[Paul Tomblin]

I'm having two problems with members of a list who are set to "no mail"
but whose email address is no longer valid:
- The bounce of the monthly password reminder, even though it is VERPed,
  is not sufficient to remove them from the list because it's only one
  bounce.  It would be nice if that bounce would trigger some additional
  probing, possibly immediately going to the "you are disabled" warnings.
- I send the membership list of one particular list off as a cron job to a
  friend who has a "backup list" for that one.  But there is no easy way
  to remove addresses that are set to "no mail" from the output of
  list_members.  What I want is the opposite of "list_members -n" to show
  only members who aren't set to "no mail".

-- 
Paul Tomblin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://blog.xcski.com/
Medication did wonders for me, Dave. Perhaps it could for you, if a
crowbar and half a pound of axle grease counts as medication.
  -- Red Drag Diva
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