Re: [Mailman-Users] inn gateway

[jdd]

Le 06/05/2014 01:42, Mark Sapiro a écrit :


$ bin/withlist -l test


well...I'm cursed :-(

this worked with the test list, but not with the main list!

same symptoms: list is "linux-31"

linux-31 newsgroup works
linux-31 mailman list works

post to the list go to the newsgroup

but posts to the newsgroup do not reach the list

fromusenet logs

May 06 08:43:47 2014 (27035) linux-31: [1..12]
May 06 08:43:47 2014 (27035) gating linux-31 articles [12..12]
May 06 08:43:47 2014 (27035) posted to list linux-31:  12
May 06 08:43:47 2014 (27035) linux-31 watermark: 12

but

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l linux-31

do not fix the problem

sorry :-(
jdd

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Re: [Mailman-Users] inn gateway

[jdd]

Le 06/05/2014 01:42, Mark Sapiro a écrit :


The test list's high watermark for the newsgroup is 31. This means no
posts prior to #32 in the newsgroup will be gated to the list.


ok. I suspected some sort of thing like this



Use bin/withlist and do the following

$ bin/withlist -l test
Loading list test (locked)
The variable `m' is the test MailList instance

m.usenet_watermark = None
m.Save()
  <- Cntrl-D to exit

Unlocking (but not saving) list: test
Finalizing
$

ouch. I wouldn't have find this myself, great thanks, I will save this for 
future use also


jdd

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.18 final release

[Mark Sapiro]

On 05/03/2014 11:30 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I'm pleased to announce the final release for Mailman 2.1.18.


It appears that the from_is_list and dmarc_moderation_actions Wrap
Message actions may run afoul of this issue
 in the Python email library in
versions older than 2.6.x where x is some number < 5. I.e. I know the
bug is fixed in Python 2.7 and 2.6.5 and not in any 2.5.x or older. I'm
not sure about 2.6.1 - 2.6.4.

I have attached a patch to Mailman/Message.py which I think will fix
this issue if you have it. You will know if you do because all outgoing
mail will be shunted with the exception "TypeError: Expected list, got
" when SMTPDirect.py invokes the as_string() method on the
message object.

I think this will only occur with those older Pythons and when a Wrap
Message action is applied.

As soon as I get confirmation from the original reporter that the patch
solves the problem, I will release a fixed version.

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--- /var/MM/2.1/Mailman/Message.py  2014-04-26 21:29:42.282766984 -0700
+++ /var/MM/21/Mailman/Message.py   2014-05-05 22:40:32.412348756 -0700
@@ -59,6 +59,25 @@
 return self.__class__(fp, self._mangle_from_,
 self.__children_maxheaderlen, self.__children_maxheaderlen)
 
+# This is the _handle_message method with the fix for bug 7970.
+def _handle_message(self, msg):
+s = StringIO()
+g = self.clone(s)
+# The payload of a message/rfc822 part should be a multipart sequence
+# of length 1.  The zeroth element of the list should be the Message
+# object for the subpart.  Extract that object, stringify it, and
+# write it out.
+# Except, it turns out, when it's a string instead, which happens when
+# and only when HeaderParser is used on a message of mime type
+# message/rfc822.  Such messages are generated by, for example,
+# Groupwise when forwarding unadorned messages.  (Issue 7970.)  So
+# in that case we just emit the string body.
+payload = msg.get_payload()
+if isinstance(payload, list):
+g.flatten(msg.get_payload(0), unixfrom=False)
+payload = s.getvalue()
+self._fp.write(payload)
+
 
 
 class Message(email.Message.Message):


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Peter Shute writes:
 > > On 5 May 2014, at 4:59 pm, "Stephen J. Turnbull"  
 > > wrote:

 > > them.  But when you (FVO "you" susceptible to phishing in the first

 > Sorry, what does FVO stand for?

Ah, excuse my abbreviations.  FVO = "for values of"; the intended
implication is that the "you" reading my post isn't the kind of "you"
who gets taken in by phishing emails.

 > >All of our mail to you have come back to us due to DMARC rejects,
 > >so we need to use this unusual address.
 > > 
 > >Please confirm your blah-blah-blah by clicking  and logging
 > >in to our secure site.
 > > 
 > > 2% of AOL customers will respond by clicking, at last report. :-(
 > 
 > They get a warning? I thought it just bounced, and the intended
 > recipient never knew.

No, the point is that a phishing mail with

From: Chase Bank Customer Service 

will sail right past DMARC, as currently set up.  In the message, the
complaint about the "DMARC rejects" was written by the phisherman, and
the strange address is explained by that preamble.  Thus reassured,
the victim then clicks.  Don't ask me to explain why they do that, I
don't really understand (I'm almost tempted to quote Niven and
Pournelle, "think of it as evolution in action"), but it's an
empirical fact that real people lose real money to these scams ("2% of
AOLers" click, according to AOL).

Now, it's *possible* that ".invalid" will trigger the latent common
sense in the 2%.  But I think that pretty unlikely to be completely
effective, and I suspect it won't be effective at all in the presence
of a disclaimer about the "unusual" address.  If ".invalid" can't
get by the victim's common sense, ".REMOVE-THIS" etc probably will.

The thing is that a bit of common sense will save you from any of
these scams.  But that's not enough to create good policies, because
it's very hard is to think of all the ways to abuse a very naive
victim, or a very young one, or an elderly one who's lost a step
mentally -- it takes a devious mind just to think of one!

Regards,

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Re: [Mailman-Users] best way to reconfirm a list

[Peter Shute]

Keith Bierman wrote:
> 
> ​But since the OP said
> ".  New
> subscribers are asked to subscribe to a yahoo group instead."
> 
> I assumed it was really Yahoo (perhaps under a mask as mail 
> provider for some other named service, ala comcast ;>) who 
> was doing the blacklisting...
> who else would be recommending yahoo groups as an alternative?

I took that to mean that these lists are no longer accepting new members, and 
that prospective members are being advised to join some particular yahoo groups 
instead. I.e. they're gradually migrating to yahoo groups.

Peter Shute
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Re: [Mailman-Users] best way to reconfirm a list

[Keith Bierman]

>
>
> ​...
>
>
> I don't discount this possibility, but the rejections just go back to
> the Mailman server and the list, and reports of the rejections go to the
> people publishing the DMARC p=reject policy for their domain. I don't
> see how any of this winds up being delivered to some third party's spam
> trap address.
>
> I.e., the people (or bots) at Yahoo receiving reports of your DMARC
> failures might decide to take some action against your server, but that
> would be Yahoo blacklisting you for excessive DMARC failures
> "impersonating" their domain. It wouldn't be maps saying you're sending
> mail to their spam traps.


​But since the OP said
".  New
subscribers are asked to subscribe to a yahoo group instead."

I assumed it was really Yahoo (perhaps under a mask as mail provider for
some other named service, ala comcast ;>) who was doing the blacklisting...
who else would be recommending yahoo groups as an alternative?​
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Re: [Mailman-Users] best way to reconfirm a list

[Mark Sapiro]

On 05/05/2014 08:43 PM, Keith Bierman wrote:
> 
> I naively thought that
> a formerly well functioning list having a number of yahoo members might
> have resulted in enough rejection/bounces that some "anti-spam bot"
> might declare the list itself forbidden ;>​


I don't discount this possibility, but the rejections just go back to
the Mailman server and the list, and reports of the rejections go to the
people publishing the DMARC p=reject policy for their domain. I don't
see how any of this winds up being delivered to some third party's spam
trap address.

I.e., the people (or bots) at Yahoo receiving reports of your DMARC
failures might decide to take some action against your server, but that
would be Yahoo blacklisting you for excessive DMARC failures
"impersonating" their domain. It wouldn't be maps saying you're sending
mail to their spam traps.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] best way to reconfirm a list

[Keith Bierman]

On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 9:39 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 05/05/2014 08:33 PM, Keith Bierman wrote:
> >
> > Wouldn't this be likely to be another DMARC victim?
>
>
> Perhaps you can imagine such a scenario. I don't see it.
>

​I defer to your much greater wisdom in the area. I naively thought that a
formerly well functioning list having a number of yahoo members might have
resulted in enough rejection/bounces that some "anti-spam bot" might
declare the list itself forbidden ;>​

>
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] best way to reconfirm a list

[Keith Bierman]

On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 05/05/2014 06:47 PM, Richard Shetron wrote:
> > I looked through the list admin manual and didn't see anything about
> > reconfirming a list.  Is there an easy way to have mailman reconfirm a
> list?
>
>
> What does "reconfirm a list" mean to you?
> ​...
> > traps, but neither list has been added to in at least 3+ years.  New
> > subscribers are asked to subscribe to a yahoo group instead.
>
>
> There are other ways your list can hit a spam trap, e.g. a non-member
> post spoofs the spam trap address and thee list sends an autoresponse.


Wouldn't this be likely to be another DMARC victim?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] best way to reconfirm a list

[Mark Sapiro]

On 05/05/2014 08:33 PM, Keith Bierman wrote:
> 
> Wouldn't this be likely to be another DMARC victim? 


Perhaps you can imagine such a scenario. I don't see it.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] best way to reconfirm a list

[Mark Sapiro]

On 05/05/2014 06:47 PM, Richard Shetron wrote:
> I looked through the list admin manual and didn't see anything about
> reconfirming a list.  Is there an easy way to have mailman reconfirm a list?


What does "reconfirm a list" mean to you?

Do you perhaps mean get a list of the list's members? If so, see the FAQ
at .


> I have a list that has been in use for 5+years and all of a sudden maps
> is saying I'm hitting a spam trap.  The list has not been added to in at
> least 3+years.  Actually I have 2 lists that maps claims is hitting spam
> traps, but neither list has been added to in at least 3+ years.  New
> subscribers are asked to subscribe to a yahoo group instead.


There are other ways your list can hit a spam trap, e.g. a non-member
post spoofs the spam trap address and thee list sends an autoresponse.

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[Mailman-Users] best way to reconfirm a list

[Richard Shetron]

I looked through the list admin manual and didn't see anything about
reconfirming a list.  Is there an easy way to have mailman reconfirm a list?

I have a list that has been in use for 5+years and all of a sudden maps
is saying I'm hitting a spam trap.  The list has not been added to in at
least 3+years.  Actually I have 2 lists that maps claims is hitting spam
traps, but neither list has been added to in at least 3+ years.  New
subscribers are asked to subscribe to a yahoo group instead.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] inn gateway

[Mark Sapiro]

On 05/05/2014 09:22 AM, jdd wrote:
> 
> but when I post in the newsgroup, I don't see it in the list! "gateway
> to mail" is ticked in the two lines in the administrative interface
> 
> fromusenet log:
> 
> s-r:~ # tail /var/lib/mailman/logs/fromusenet
> May 05 18:10:02 2014 (12680) test watermark: 31
> May 05 18:10:02 2014 (12682) test: [1..0]
> May 05 18:10:02 2014 (12682) nothing new for list test
> May 05 18:10:02 2014 (12682) test watermark: 31


The test list's high watermark for the newsgroup is 31. This means no
posts prior to #32 in the newsgroup will be gated to the list.

Use bin/withlist and do the following

$ bin/withlist -l test
Loading list test (locked)
The variable `m' is the test MailList instance
>>> m.usenet_watermark = None
>>> m.Save()
>>>  <- Cntrl-D to exit
Unlocking (but not saving) list: test
Finalizing
$

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[Mailman-Users] inn gateway

[jdd]

Hello,

I have now a running mailman and a running inn news server - only for mailing 
lists access (news.culte.org)


I try to setup the gateway.

in mailman, I wrote localhost as news server (the two apps are on the same 
machine) and "test" as test list.


test list works
test newsgroup works

when I send a post to the test list, I see it in the news group

but when I post in the newsgroup, I don't see it in the list! "gateway to 
mail" is ticked in the two lines in the administrative interface


fromusenet log:

s-r:~ # tail /var/lib/mailman/logs/fromusenet
May 05 18:10:02 2014 (12680) test watermark: 31
May 05 18:10:02 2014 (12682) test: [1..0]
May 05 18:10:02 2014 (12682) nothing new for list test
May 05 18:10:02 2014 (12682) test watermark: 31

(there is nothing in the inn logs)

the cron job is active

,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news


any idea? It should be something obvious I miss :-(

thanks
jdd
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject

[John Levine]

>> I'm on lots of lists with Paypal employees, who consistently use
>> paypal-inc.com addresses, specicially to avoid DMARC problems.
>
>$ dig +short -t txt _dmarc.paypal-inc.com
>"v=DMARC1\; p=reject\; rua=mailto:d...@rua.agari.com\; 
>ruf=mailto:d...@bounce.paypal.com,mailto:d...@ruf.agari.com";
>
>No joy :(

Phoo.  That's new, and surprisingly foolish of them.

Perhaps this is management's way of telling the staff not to waste
time on mailing lists while they're at work.

R's,
John
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject

[John Levine]

>$ dig +short -t txt _dmarc.paypal.com
>"v=DMARC1\; p=reject\; rua=mailto:d...@rua.agari.com\; 
>ruf=mailto:d...@bounce.paypal.com,mailto:d...@ruf.agari.com";

I'm on lots of lists with Paypal employees, who consistently use
paypal-inc.com addresses, specicially to avoid DMARC problems.

They realized it was a problem about a year ago, and dealt with it in
a reasonable way.

R's,
John
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject

[Malcolm Austen]

On Mon, 05 May 2014 09:24:59 +0100, Peter Shute  wrote:

They get a warning? I thought it just bounced, and the intended  
recipient never knew.


That was how I (thought I) understood it but I have heard of mailman  
distributed messages from AOL & Yahoo addresses being put into spam rather  
than rejected by Gmail.


= Malcolm.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject

[Peter Shute]

> On 5 May 2014, at 4:59 pm, "Stephen J. Turnbull"  wrote:
> 
> Peter Shute writes:
> 
>> How does Yahoo's DMARC policy reduce the benefit of Paypal's?
>> Because servers can't follow the reject recommendation without
> 
> No, it's because users get used to ignoring warnings about DMARC
> issues.  If it was *only* your bank, you'd learn to pay attention to
> them.  But when you (FVO "you" susceptible to phishing in the first
> place, of course!) see a pile of DMARC workarounds every day for 70%
> of your correspondents, how do you respond to this?

Sorry, what does FVO stand for?

>All of our mail to you have come back to us due to DMARC rejects,
>so we need to use this unusual address.
> 
>Please confirm your blah-blah-blah by clicking  and logging
>in to our secure site.
> 
> 2% of AOL customers will respond by clicking, at last report. :-(

They get a warning? I thought it just bounced, and the intended recipient never 
knew.
> 
>> And does the emergence of legitimate p=reject policies mean it's
>> now less likely Yahoo and AOL will back down?
> 
> What makes you think the banks didn't start doing this ages ago?
> Apparently they merely haven't made an explicit announcement.
> 
I wondered about that. Anyone know?

Peter Shute
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Add PayPal to DNs publishing DMARC p=reject

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Peter Shute writes:

 > How does Yahoo's DMARC policy reduce the benefit of Paypal's?
 > Because servers can't follow the reject recommendation without

No, it's because users get used to ignoring warnings about DMARC
issues.  If it was *only* your bank, you'd learn to pay attention to
them.  But when you (FVO "you" susceptible to phishing in the first
place, of course!) see a pile of DMARC workarounds every day for 70%
of your correspondents, how do you respond to this?

All of our mail to you have come back to us due to DMARC rejects,
so we need to use this unusual address.

Please confirm your blah-blah-blah by clicking  and logging
in to our secure site.

2% of AOL customers will respond by clicking, at last report. :-(

Let's put it this way: When was the last time you saw an "unvalidated
SSL certificate"?  Is that timestamp equal to the last time you
followed up by checking the root cert's fingerprint on the authority's
secure site?  Or is the latter equal to -1? ;-)

 > And does the emergence of legitimate p=reject policies mean it's
 > now less likely Yahoo and AOL will back down?

What makes you think the banks didn't start doing this ages ago?
Apparently they merely haven't made an explicit announcement.

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