Re: [Mailman-Users] Debugging mass invitations using web page interface...

2016-08-26 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 08/26/2016 05:24 PM, The Mailing List Server Admin wrote:
> 
> I ended up having the same error happen.  Looking at the Mailman logs,
> I can't see any difference before or after my submission.  In the
> HTTPD logs, I see:
> 
>>> [Fri Aug 26 19:59:23 2016] [warn] [client 132.177.215.132] Timeout
>>> waiting for output from CGI script
>>> /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin, referer:
>>> https://lists.unh.edu/mailman/admin/campus.connection/members/add
> 
>>> [Fri Aug 26 19:59:23 2016] [error] [client 132.177.215.132]
>>> Premature end of script headers: admin, referer:
>>> https://lists.unh.edu/mailman/admin/campus.connection/members/add
> 
> So is there an inherent limit to the number of invites that can be
> submitted via the web form?


The admin CGI is processing the mass subscribe/invite list. While it is
doing this it is not generating any output. If it takes 'too long' the
web server will time out waiting for output from the CGI. That's what's
happening here.

The amount of time is set by apache's TimeOut directive



> As a work around, how would I do large invites on behalf of the owner
> from the command line, including the 'extra text' that is allowed via
> the web interface?


You'd need a custom script to do the 'extra text'. I have added an
invite_members script I use at
 and
. This can send
invitations including the 'extra text'.

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[Mailman-Users] Debugging mass invitations using web page interface...

2016-08-26 Thread The Mailing List Server Admin 

Dear Mailman Cognoscenti,

I'm helping one of my list owners send out 5K plus invitations to
students to subscribe to his mailing list.  Our current configuration:

   Mailman v2.1.20
   RHEL v5.11
   Semdmail v8.13.8
   Apache v2.2.3

Since this was the first time doing this, I suggested breaking the
batch input into 3 groups, 50, 500, and the rest.  The 50 went fine,
as did the 500, but the largest batch gave him a generic web server
error:


Internal Server Error

The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was
unable to complete your request.

Please contact the server administrator, r...@conundrum.unh.edu and
inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might
have done that may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server
error log.


I looked at the logs and I couldn't find anything that hinted at what
went wrong.  So I asked the owner to send me the last back and I'd
give it a try.  I wrote a script that removed folks already subscribed
to his list and split the remaining subscribers up into 6 files with a
thousand records each.  I just tried uploading the 1st batch of 1K,
with the following options:

Subscribe these users now... (*) Invite
Send welcome message...  (*) No
Send notifications...(*) No

And entered a 7 line paragraph explaining the invitation.

I ended up having the same error happen.  Looking at the Mailman logs,
I can't see any difference before or after my submission.  In the
HTTPD logs, I see:


[Fri Aug 26 19:59:23 2016] [warn] [client 132.177.215.132] Timeout
waiting for output from CGI script
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin, referer:
https://lists.unh.edu/mailman/admin/campus.connection/members/add



[Fri Aug 26 19:59:23 2016] [error] [client 132.177.215.132]
Premature end of script headers: admin, referer:
https://lists.unh.edu/mailman/admin/campus.connection/members/add


So is there an inherent limit to the number of invites that can be
submitted via the web form?

As a work around, how would I do large invites on behalf of the owner
from the command line, including the 'extra text' that is allowed via
the web interface?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hire consultant to install Mailman 3 on Dreamhost

2016-08-26 Thread Barry Warsaw 
On Aug 26, 2016, at 11:53 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Still, most users considering MM 3 would probably do best by waiting for
>the official MM 3.1 release.

Which I am hoping will happen in the latter half of September, early October.
Although HyperKitty isn't tracking milestones yet, core and Postorius are, and
here's what's left:

https://gitlab.com/dashboard/milestones/31?title=3.1

For core, all the big stuff is in except the unsub workflow, and I have a
branch in progress for that.

Cheers,
-Barry
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Re: [Mailman-Users] unsubscriptions due to automatic bounce processing

2016-08-26 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 08/25/2016 12:28 PM, Matt Morgan wrote:
> 
> I decided to set it up to clean out the cruft fast, and then I'd temper it
> back a little. So I set it up like this:
> 
> bounce_processing: yes
> bounce_score_threshold: 2.0
> bounce_info_stale_after: 63
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 0
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval: 7
> bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner: no
> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable: yes
> bounce_notify_owner_on_removal: yes
> 
> It appears to have worked, but what I'm confused about is this: the last
> mailing went out on August 11th, and the list owners got 750 automatic
> unsubscribes yesterday. "bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings" set to zero is
> supposed to mean that people are removed "immediately" ... but maybe that
> means "immediately, once some scheduled script or job runs"? Let me know
> what controls that, or if I'm maybe going the wrong direction here. I.e.,
> does bounce processing only happens once every few weeks, perhaps?


No. You are on the right track, but there's a different issue here.

With bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0, a user for whom a bounce is
received which increases her bounce score to or above
bounce_score_threshold will immediately have delivery disabled and be
unsubscribed.

However, your 750 users still had delivery enabled, but had bounce
scores >= 2. You lowered the threshold to 2. This did nothing to those
users at that point, but the next time Mailman's cron/disabled ran, it
looked at the user's current bounce score that was now >=
bounce_score_threshold (which you just lowered) and called the list's
disableBouncingMember() method which resulted in the user's unsubscription.

If you look in mailman's bounce log, you will see the 750 unsubscribes,
but if you look back to Aug 11 or before, I think you will see the users
had scores >= 2.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hire consultant to install Mailman 3 on Dreamhost

2016-08-26 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 08/26/2016 09:17 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> 
> Also, Postorius (and possibly HyperKitty) are going to have to undergo
> substantial upgrades in the near future, because they currently use
> Mozilla Persona for authentication.  We've decided what to do about
> that and the work is underway (and looks straightforward to me), but
> it's still going to mean an upgrade in the near future if you install
> now.


Actually, the switch from Persona to Django allauth has been completed
in the heads of the GitLab branches. I have tested this locally and will
be upgrading MM 3 on lists.mailman3.org and mail.python.org soon (I'ts a
bit more complicated that my usual upgrades because there are config
changes required because of the switch to allauth.)

Still, most users considering MM 3 would probably do best by waiting for
the official MM 3.1 release.


> So, production?  Yes, with care.  Turnkey for the general audience?
> Not yet.

+1

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[Mailman-Users] unsubscriptions due to automatic bounce processing

2016-08-26 Thread Matt Morgan 
I recently took over a lot of pre-existing mailman lists for a new client.
At least one list was pretty messy. They had automatic bounce processing
turned on, but the threshold was high, and reset time was shorter than the
typical length of times between postings (it's an announce-only list that
goes out about once monthly). So there were a lot of bad addresses.

I decided to set it up to clean out the cruft fast, and then I'd temper it
back a little. So I set it up like this:

bounce_processing: yes
bounce_score_threshold: 2.0
bounce_info_stale_after: 63
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 0
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval: 7
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner: no
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable: yes
bounce_notify_owner_on_removal: yes

It appears to have worked, but what I'm confused about is this: the last
mailing went out on August 11th, and the list owners got 750 automatic
unsubscribes yesterday. "bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings" set to zero is
supposed to mean that people are removed "immediately" ... but maybe that
means "immediately, once some scheduled script or job runs"? Let me know
what controls that, or if I'm maybe going the wrong direction here. I.e.,
does bounce processing only happens once every few weeks, perhaps?

Thanks,
Matt
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hire consultant to install Mailman 3 on Dreamhost

2016-08-26 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull 
Russ Housley writes:

 > I am interested in the internationalization capabilities of Mailman
 > 3, but I thought that it was not ready for production use.  In that
 > not right?

That depends on your use case.  The basic facilities are quite robust
and in production use by several organizations.  But important
features are in process, such as (1) DMARC mitigation (which doesn't
matter if you have no posters at p=reject domains) and (2) your own
interest, localization (the translation stock for core is nonexistent
at present, I'm not sure what localizations HyperKitty and Postorius
have).

Also, Postorius (and possibly HyperKitty) are going to have to undergo
substantial upgrades in the near future, because they currently use
Mozilla Persona for authentication.  We've decided what to do about
that and the work is underway (and looks straightforward to me), but
it's still going to mean an upgrade in the near future if you install
now.

So, production?  Yes, with care.  Turnkey for the general audience?
Not yet.

Steve

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hire consultant to install Mailman 3 on Dreamhost

2016-08-26 Thread Russ Housley 

> I am interested in hiring a consultant to install Mailman 3 on a Dreamhost 
> server and migrate a bunch of existing Mailman 2.1.17 mailing lists to 
> Mailman 3. If you are interested, or you know someone that might be able to 
> provide this service, please contact me off list.

I am interested in the internationalization capabilities of Mailman 3, but I 
thought that it was not ready for production use.  In that not right?

Russ

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[Mailman-Users] Hire consultant to install Mailman 3 on Dreamhost

2016-08-26 Thread Jason Glazer 
I am interested in hiring a consultant to install Mailman 3 
on a Dreamhost server and migrate a bunch of existing 
Mailman 2.1.17 mailing lists to Mailman 3. If you are 
interested, or you know someone that might be able to 
provide this service, please contact me off list.


Thanks

Jason Glazer

jgla...@gard.com


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