Re: [Mailman-Users] bounce mail transfer

[Masaharu Kawada]

Mark-san,

Thank you very much for your response.

I have given a shot, but no luck. Maybe I have something wrong in what I
have done.
Anyway, I will do some more test myself and see how it goes.

I very much appreciate your help this time and very sorry to have asked you
this many...

Masaharu Kawada

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 11:15 AM Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 6/5/19 6:51 PM, Masaharu Kawada wrote:
> >
> > In my case,  /etc/mailman/aliase is the default file path and then what I
> > need to do is going for the steps below, is this right?
> >
> > 1.Create /etc/mailman/alias_overrides as follows.
> >
> > Note: The first line is copied from /etc/mailman/aliases and the second
> > line 't...@domain.com 'is additional.
> > ---
> > LISTNAME-bounces:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
> >  t...@domain.com
> > ---
> >
> > 2.Create the alias_overrides.db
> >
> > # postalias alias_overrides
> >
> > 3.Edit /etc/postfix/main.cf to add  the
> 'hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides'
> > into alias_maps and alias_database as follows.
> >
> > alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases,
> > hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides
>
>
> The overrides need to be ahead of the mailman aliases
>
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides,
> hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] bounce mail transfer

[Mark Sapiro]

On 6/5/19 6:51 PM, Masaharu Kawada wrote:
> 
> In my case,  /etc/mailman/aliase is the default file path and then what I
> need to do is going for the steps below, is this right?
> 
> 1.Create /etc/mailman/alias_overrides as follows.
> 
> Note: The first line is copied from /etc/mailman/aliases and the second
> line 't...@domain.com 'is additional.
> ---
> LISTNAME-bounces:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
>  t...@domain.com
> ---
> 
> 2.Create the alias_overrides.db
> 
> # postalias alias_overrides
> 
> 3.Edit /etc/postfix/main.cf to add  the 'hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides'
> into alias_maps and alias_database as follows.
> 
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases,
> hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides


The overrides need to be ahead of the mailman aliases

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides,
hash:/etc/mailman/aliases

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Re: [Mailman-Users] bounce mail transfer

[Masaharu Kawada]

Mark-san,

Thank you very much for your response.

>'LISTNAME' and 'ISTNAME' (sic) are replaced with the actual list name
>and '/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman' is replaced with the actual path.

I am sorry that the abov e 'ISTNAME' was supposed to be 'LISTNAME'. I
missed the first 'L' when I copied & pasted it.

In my case,  /etc/mailman/aliase is the default file path and then what I
need to do is going for the steps below, is this right?

1.Create /etc/mailman/alias_overrides as follows.

Note: The first line is copied from /etc/mailman/aliases and the second
line 't...@domain.com 'is additional.
---
LISTNAME-bounces:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
 t...@domain.com
---

2.Create the alias_overrides.db

# postalias alias_overrides

3.Edit /etc/postfix/main.cf to add  the 'hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides'
into alias_maps and alias_database as follows.

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases,
hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases,
hash:/etc/mailman/alias_overrides

These are all I have done. Am I missing or having anything wrong?

Regards,
Masaharu Kawada


On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 12:46 AM Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 6/5/19 12:43 AM, Masaharu Kawada wrote:
> >
> > About what you said above, do you mean it's supposed to be like below?
> >
> > $ cat alias_overrides
> > ---
> > ISTNAME-bounces:   "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
> >  t...@domain.com
> > ---
>
>
> No. the first line should be copied from the existing aliases.
>
> 'LISTNAME' and 'ISTNAME' (sic) are replaced with the actual list name
> and '/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman' is replaced with the actual path.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> --
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Maximum attachment size

[Mark Sapiro]

On 6/5/19 2:18 PM, Bryan Blackwell wrote:
> 
> I've run into an apparent limit in size - we send newsletters through one of 
> our lists, and they can get large.  One in particular runs over 20MB, and I 
> get an error on the held messages page trying to process it.  Currently we 
> have version 2.1.20, I know there are updates but not if they address this 
> limit or if there's some other fix.


Others have answered, but what exactly is the error?

And if it is the Mailman "we hit a bug" error, what's in Mailman's error
log?

Also as noted by Grant, you can set the web admin General Options ->
max_message_size to zero to avoid this check.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Maximum attachment size

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 6/5/19 3:59 PM, Robert Heller wrote:

I wonder if this is *mailman* or your MTA that is complaining...


It might also be a webserver thing trying to react to the pending 
moderators request / hold screen (page).




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Re: [Mailman-Users] Maximum attachment size

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 6/5/19 3:18 PM, Bryan Blackwell wrote:

Hi folks,


Hi,

I've run into an apparent limit in size - we send newsletters through 
one of our lists, and they can get large.  One in particular runs over 
20MB, and I get an error on the held messages page trying to process it.


I'm guessing that you are aware of the Maximum length (max_message_size) 
setting on the General Options page.


Remember that Base64 attachments become 4/3s their size.  So a 20 MB 
file attachment becomes ~27 MB of Base64 encoded content.


Also remember that the MTA's maximum message size will add any headers 
and body content onto the size.  So I'm guessing you want to be able to 
support 30 MB email messages.  This should be easily doable.  Even if 
some people (myself included) don't like it.


Currently we have version 2.1.20, I know there are updates but not if 
they address this limit or if there's some other fix.


I'm guessing that this is a Mailman and / or MTA configuration issue.

The fact that the message makes it into Mailman tells me that the MTA 
can handle the attachment.  I wonder if simply raising the Maximum 
length (max_message_size) might allow the message to pass normally.


I don't know what to think about the pending moderator requests / hold 
page's behavior.  I'll defer to other more knowledgeable people on the 
mailing list.




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Re: [Mailman-Users] Maximum attachment size

[Robert Heller]

At Wed, 5 Jun 2019 17:18:04 -0400 Bryan Blackwell  wrote:

> 
> Hi folks,
> 

> I've run into an apparent limit in size - we send newsletters through one of
> our lists, and they can get large. One in particular runs over 20MB, and I
> get an error on the held messages page trying to process it. Currently we
> have version 2.1.20, I know there are updates but not if they address this
> limit or if there's some other fix.

I wonder if this is *mailman* or your MTA that is complaining...


> 
> --Bryan
> 
> 
> --  Bryan Blackwell --
> Linux Systems Engineer
> br...@skiblack.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> 
>   
>  

-- 
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Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
hel...@deepsoft.com   -- Webhosting Services


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[Mailman-Users] Maximum attachment size

[Bryan Blackwell]

Hi folks,

I've run into an apparent limit in size - we send newsletters through one of 
our lists, and they can get large.  One in particular runs over 20MB, and I get 
an error on the held messages page trying to process it.  Currently we have 
version 2.1.20, I know there are updates but not if they address this limit or 
if there's some other fix.

--Bryan


--  Bryan Blackwell --
Linux Systems Engineer
br...@skiblack.com



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Re: [Mailman-Users] From Address for 'mailpasswds'

[Dennis Putnam]

Hi Mark,

After looking at this a bit I have a question. Are the strings 'owner',
'request' and 'bounces' appended to the list name?

list1-owner@domain
list1-request@domain
list1-bounces@domain

On 6/5/2019 1:21 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 6/5/19 8:55 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
>> I am trying to send a monthly reminder using 'mailman
>> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds'. However, the messages bounce due to
>> an invalid from address. How can I change the script to use a valid from
>> address? Thanks.
>
> Why is the From: invalid? it is the site list -owner address and the
> envelope is from the site list -bounces address. These should be
> deliverable addresses. There is a potential issue with virtual domains
> in that the domain of these addresses can be the virtual host domain and
> the address may not be valid in that domain.
>
> We currently add the site list address in each virtual domain in
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS to the generated virtual-mailman file, but
> we don't add the -owner and -bounces addresses. I'll fix that. See
> .
>
> As far as changing these addresses is concerned, at lines 197-199 in the
> script you'll see
>
> siteowner = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'owner')
> sitereq = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'request')
> sitebounce = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'bounces')
>
> You could replace host in these lines with the literal host name which
> is valid for the site list in quotes like 'example.com'.
>
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] From Address for 'mailpasswds'

[Dennis Putnam]

Hi Mark,

I am using U-Verse which means the domain and from address of my Linux
server are fake. I tried setting up translation in Postfix (generic) but
it does not seem to work for this particular address. I'll try your
suggestion. Thanks.

On 6/5/2019 1:21 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 6/5/19 8:55 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
>> I am trying to send a monthly reminder using 'mailman
>> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds'. However, the messages bounce due to
>> an invalid from address. How can I change the script to use a valid from
>> address? Thanks.
>
> Why is the From: invalid? it is the site list -owner address and the
> envelope is from the site list -bounces address. These should be
> deliverable addresses. There is a potential issue with virtual domains
> in that the domain of these addresses can be the virtual host domain and
> the address may not be valid in that domain.
>
> We currently add the site list address in each virtual domain in
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS to the generated virtual-mailman file, but
> we don't add the -owner and -bounces addresses. I'll fix that. See
> .
>
> As far as changing these addresses is concerned, at lines 197-199 in the
> script you'll see
>
> siteowner = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'owner')
> sitereq = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'request')
> sitebounce = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'bounces')
>
> You could replace host in these lines with the literal host name which
> is valid for the site list in quotes like 'example.com'.
>
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] From Address for 'mailpasswds'

[Mark Sapiro]

On 6/5/19 8:55 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:
> I am trying to send a monthly reminder using 'mailman
> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds'. However, the messages bounce due to
> an invalid from address. How can I change the script to use a valid from
> address? Thanks.


Why is the From: invalid? it is the site list -owner address and the
envelope is from the site list -bounces address. These should be
deliverable addresses. There is a potential issue with virtual domains
in that the domain of these addresses can be the virtual host domain and
the address may not be valid in that domain.

We currently add the site list address in each virtual domain in
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS to the generated virtual-mailman file, but
we don't add the -owner and -bounces addresses. I'll fix that. See
.

As far as changing these addresses is concerned, at lines 197-199 in the
script you'll see

siteowner = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'owner')
sitereq = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'request')
sitebounce = Utils.get_site_email(host, 'bounces')

You could replace host in these lines with the literal host name which
is valid for the site list in quotes like 'example.com'.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan



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[Mailman-Users] From Address for 'mailpasswds'

[Dennis Putnam]

I am trying to send a monthly reminder using 'mailman
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds'. However, the messages bounce due to
an invalid from address. How can I change the script to use a valid from
address? Thanks.



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Re: [Mailman-Users] bounce mail transfer

[Mark Sapiro]

On 6/5/19 12:43 AM, Masaharu Kawada wrote:
> 
> About what you said above, do you mean it's supposed to be like below?
> 
> $ cat alias_overrides
> ---
> ISTNAME-bounces:   "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
>  t...@domain.com
> ---


No. the first line should be copied from the existing aliases.

'LISTNAME' and 'ISTNAME' (sic) are replaced with the actual list name
and '/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman' is replaced with the actual path.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Message not removeable

[Mark Sapiro]

On 6/4/19 1:41 PM, Paul van der Vlis wrote:
> Op 04-06-19 om 22:05 schreef Mark Sapiro:
>> On 6/4/19 3:30 AM, Paul van der Vlis wrote:
>>>
>>> In one of the mailinglists came a message what's to big. I've changed
>>> max_message_size but it was not possible to send the message. Now I want
>>> to remove the message, but that's also not possible, it still is there
>>> and the list-owner gets messages about it.
>>
>>
>> How did you try to accept the message, and what happened?
> 
> Using the webinterface. I did not see any error, but the message was not
> send.
> 
>> How are you trying to remove the message, and what happens?
> 
> Using the webinterface. I did not see an error, but the message was not
> removed.
> 
>> Is there anything relevant in Mailman's error log?
> 
> I did not see anything relevant.
> Maybe it's possible to make it more verbose.


There's not really a way to increase logging.

Does this issue occur anytime there is a moderator request or only for
this one message? If it is only for this one, I don't know why that
would happen silently, but if it is always, see
.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Message not removeable

[Paul van der Vlis]

Op 04-06-19 om 22:05 schreef Mark Sapiro:
> On 6/4/19 3:30 AM, Paul van der Vlis wrote:
>>
>> In one of the mailinglists came a message what's to big. I've changed
>> max_message_size but it was not possible to send the message. Now I want
>> to remove the message, but that's also not possible, it still is there
>> and the list-owner gets messages about it.
> 
> 
> How did you try to accept the message, and what happened?

Using the webinterface. I did not see any error, but the message was not
send.

> How are you trying to remove the message, and what happens?

Using the webinterface. I did not see an error, but the message was not
removed.

> Is there anything relevant in Mailman's error log?

I did not see anything relevant.
Maybe it's possible to make it more verbose.

>> How can I remove this message, or all messages (it's the only one what
>> waits on moderation).
> 
> 
> The moderator requests are in the file lists/LISTNAME/request.pck and
> the held message itself is in the file data/heldmsg-LISTNAME-nnn.pck.
> Both lists/ and data/ are in Mailman's file hierarchy.
>
> There is a script at 
> (mirrored at )
> which can list and optionally remove requests. It may work.
> 
> If you are sure the one held message is the only moderator request for
> this list, you can just remove the lists/LISTNAME/request.pck file, and
> Mailman will recreate it when needed. If you do that, you should also
> remove the data/heldmsg-LISTNAME-nnn.pck file containing the message.

This seems to work, the message is removed ;-)

Thanks for your help!


With regards,
Paul van der Vlis


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Re: [Mailman-Users] bounce mail transfer

[Masaharu Kawada]

Mark-san,

Very sorry to ask you directly.

One question about the format of the alias configuration in
'alias_overrides' you mensioned.

---
LISTNAME-bounces:   "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"

copy that one line exactly to alias_overrides and then add a second line
beginning with whitespace with the second address like:

t...@domain.com
---

About what you said above, do you mean it's supposed to be like below?

$ cat alias_overrides
---
ISTNAME-bounces:   "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
 t...@domain.com
---

I just went back and forth with testing on this, but no luck so far.  So I
just wanna know how the alias_overrides looks like.

Thanks,
Masaharu Kawada


On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 11:31 AM Masaharu Kawada  wrote:

> Hello Mark-san,
>
> I very much appreciate your answer and that was a big help.
>
> I think the second method you gave me that using alias_overrides is the
> one I need.
>
> Thanks a million!
>
> Masaharu Kawada
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 9:38 AM Mark Sapiro  wrote:
>
>> On 6/4/19 4:55 PM, Masaharu Kawada wrote:
>> >
>> > Are there any ways to have a bounce mail transferred to a specific user(
>> > ex:t...@domain.com) instead of the mail sender?
>> >
>> > I haven't been able to find any ways within Mailman configuration, but I
>> > just wonder if we can make it by using any method of postfix side.
>>
>>
>> Yes, you do it in Postfix with aliases.
>>
>> > The "man postfix" says:
>> > =
>> > -notify_classes (resource, software)
>> >
>> >   The list of error classes that are reported to the
>> postmaster.
>> >
>> > -2bounce_notice_recipient (postmaster)
>> >
>> >   The recipient of undeliverable mail that cannot be
>> returned
>> > to the sender.
>> >
>> > -bounce_notice_recipient (postmaster)
>> >
>> >   The recipient of postmaster notifications with the message
>> > headers of mail that Postfix did not deliver and of SMTP conversation
>> > transcripts of mail that Postfix did not receive.
>> > =
>> >
>> > So it looks like a bounce mail can be transferred as a copy to a
>> specific
>> > user besides postmaster this way.
>> >
>> > notify_classes = resource, software, bounce  <---Add 'bounce' to the
>> > parameter here.
>> >
>> > 2bounce_notice_recipient = t...@domain.com   <---Specify the email
>> address
>> > where you want a bounce mail to be returned.
>> > bounce_notice_recipient = t...@domain.com<---Specify the email
>> address
>> > where you want a bounce mail to be returned.
>>
>>
>> You don't want this because even if you can make it work, it will affect
>> all bounced mail.
>>
>>
>> > The scenario is as follows:
>> > 1.A sender sends an email to a mailing list.
>> > 2.The mailing list has a user that does not exist anymore.
>> > 3.A bounce mail is set to return to the sender.
>> > 4.The bounce mail is sent to one specific user besides the sender.
>> >
>> > Is this the right way? If I am missing anything to make it work, I would
>> > like you to point me to the right way.
>>
>>
>> There are things you can do. First of all bounces are returned to the
>> listname-bounces address to enable automatic bounce processing to
>> disable delivery and ultimately remove bouncing users. What are you
>> trying to accomplish by sending them also to another address?
>>
>> If all you want to do is see them, beginning in Mailman 2.1.19, there is
>> a bounce_notify_owner_on_bounce_increment setting in bounce processing
>> to send them to the list owner. See
>> .
>>
>> If this isn't satisfactory, you can look at your Mailman aliases for
>> Postfix which are probably in Mailman's data/aliases and data/aliases.db
>> files. what you need to do is make a second set, say alias_overrides and
>> alias_overrides.db.
>>
>> In aliases you will see the entire set of list aliases for all lists. In
>> particular, for the list of interest there will be a line like
>>
>> LISTNAME-bounces:   "|/path/to/mailman/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME"
>>
>> copy that one line exactly to alias_overrides and then add a second line
>> beginning with whitespace with the second address like:
>>
>> t...@domain.com
>>
>> Then run
>>
>> postalias alias_overrides
>>
>> to create alias_overrides.db and if necessary change tehe ownership of
>> alias_overrides.db to match that of Mailman's aliases.db and finally, add
>>
>> hash:/path/to/alias_overrides
>>
>> to Postfix alias_maps ahead of the entry for Mailman's aliases.
>>
>> Do it this way because Mailman will periodically update its aliases, at
>> least if you are using Mailman's Postfix integration.
>>
>> Note: this all assumes you are using aliases to deliver from Postfix to
>> Mailman.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>> --
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
>> https://mail.pyth