Re: [Mailman-Users] DKIM, SPF, DMARC, Mail_as_list all working, but MUAs not happy
Mark: Thanks much. I think I will give Munge From and see what happens. Computers are supposed to be deterministic. This stuff, well, not so much. Thanks again, Arlen Raasch On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net> wrote: > On 04/05/2016 12:14 PM, Arlen Raasch wrote: > > > > A large number of our users are not happy with how mail is presented when > > Mail_as_list is active. They messages appear as attachments in some > MUAs. > > > > If I change from Mail_as_list to Mung From, DKIM does not validate. > > > I'm guessing you are talking about the from_is_list setting and you are > using 'Wrap Message'. > > > > I noticed from previous emails I received from this list that DKIM does > not > > validate here either. > > > The original, incoming DKIM signature doesn't validate because list > transformations such as prefixing the subject or adding msg_footer break > the sig. > > I just checked and found that mail.python.org was not DKIM signing > outgoing list mail because it was checking only the From: domain for > python.org. I have hopefully just corrected that. > > > > Can I just switch the list to Mung From with some certainty that the > email > > providers will continue to relay our traffic as we have valid SPF and > DMARC > > records? > > > If Wrap Message is currently working for you, I don't know why Munge > From would not work, but there is little difference between these > actions in Mailman 2.1.21 vs 2.1.16. However, 2.1.21 does offer > dmarc_moderation_action so you can apply Wrap Message or Munge From only > to those messages which are From: a domain which publishes a DMARC > p=reject (and optionally p=quarantine) policy. > > > > Would switching to a later version of mailman make this any better (and > > why)? > > > Maybe. As I say above, it would allow you to only apply DMARC > mitigations to those posts that need it. Whether it would make Munge > From any better depends on what the current issue is. I know of no > reason why Wrap Message would be effective in avoiding DMARC rejects and > Munge From would not, but ISPs do funny things and are secretive about > it, so who knows. > > My own lists and the python.org lists do Munge From and we don't see > DMARC bounces. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net>The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/araasch%40gmail.com > -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] DKIM, SPF, DMARC, Mail_as_list all working, but MUAs not happy
All: I am using a very old version of mailman, 2.1.16. I wanted to update to a newer version during this migration, but I was too concerned that I would break something in this complex server by upgrading and changing the dependencies that new versions of mailman require. A large number of our users are not happy with how mail is presented when Mail_as_list is active. They messages appear as attachments in some MUAs. If I change from Mail_as_list to Mung From, DKIM does not validate. I noticed from previous emails I received from this list that DKIM does not validate here either. Can I just switch the list to Mung From with some certainty that the email providers will continue to relay our traffic as we have valid SPF and DMARC records? Would switching to a later version of mailman make this any better (and why)? Thanks in advance, Arlen Raasch -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Off topic, how to get in verizon.net's good graces?
Oh, and Steve, I have been using mxtoolbox for some time. Great tool. They think our mail server is the man, as in "You da man!". I got a verizon.net account to use to test against, and could send outbound emails from it to my gmail account fine. But, verizon.net even rejected emails from my gmail account, not through any relay! I also whitelisted the relay domain inside the web interface for the verizon.net test account to see if I could get one email through to inspect. No dice! Verizon must have its shields set to ludicrous. I think I have had enough and will email the subscribers using still attempting to use verizon.net to find a provider who cares tomorrow. Thanks again, Arlen Raasch On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 11:22 PM, Arlen Raasch <araa...@gmail.com> wrote: > Well, I am glad (in a way) to hear that its not just me. > > By the way, I learned that Verizon does not issue verizon.net accounts to > its new landline customers. It seems they don't want to compete with AOL, > which they now own. > > As such, it may be that few company resources are assigned to handling > such stuff inside what remains of the deprecated verizon.net company. > > Arlen Raasch > > On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net> wrote: > >> On 04/03/2016 07:06 PM, Arlen Raasch wrote: >> > >> > We moved to a new server, ... >> > >> > But, try as we may verizon.net still refuses to talk to our servers >> except >> > to say it is rejecting our messages. >> ... >> > I have submitted multiple whitelist requests as shown above, and have >> seen >> > no response whatsoever from Verizon. Frustrating. This has been going >> on >> > for 5 days now. >> >> >> I'm sorry to say, welcome to the club. >> >> This has been going on for 5 months since the old mail.python.org server >> died and was replaced late last October. >> >> >> > I am about to send emails out directly to our list subscribers asking >> them >> > to migrate to another email provider, but thought I would ask the list >> if >> > anyone else had any success with verizon.net and how they did it. >> >> >> I'm not sure what the current status is with mail.python.org. We haven't >> seen any Mailman list bounces since mid January. Maybe everyone got >> unsubscribed by bounce processing. I thought we had actually done >> something to stop sending to verizon.net, but I can't find anything (if >> it was done, I didn't do it). >> >> Good luck, and if anyone has a way to actually contact Verizon other >> than by submitting forms to an apparent black hole, please let us know. >> >> -- >> Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net>The highway is for gamblers, >> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan >> -- >> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users >> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >> Searchable Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ >> Unsubscribe: >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/araasch%40gmail.com >> > > -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Off topic, how to get in verizon.net's good graces?
Well, I am glad (in a way) to hear that its not just me. By the way, I learned that Verizon does not issue verizon.net accounts to its new landline customers. It seems they don't want to compete with AOL, which they now own. As such, it may be that few company resources are assigned to handling such stuff inside what remains of the deprecated verizon.net company. Arlen Raasch On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net> wrote: > On 04/03/2016 07:06 PM, Arlen Raasch wrote: > > > > We moved to a new server, ... > > > > But, try as we may verizon.net still refuses to talk to our servers > except > > to say it is rejecting our messages. > ... > > I have submitted multiple whitelist requests as shown above, and have > seen > > no response whatsoever from Verizon. Frustrating. This has been going > on > > for 5 days now. > > > I'm sorry to say, welcome to the club. > > This has been going on for 5 months since the old mail.python.org server > died and was replaced late last October. > > > > I am about to send emails out directly to our list subscribers asking > them > > to migrate to another email provider, but thought I would ask the list if > > anyone else had any success with verizon.net and how they did it. > > > I'm not sure what the current status is with mail.python.org. We haven't > seen any Mailman list bounces since mid January. Maybe everyone got > unsubscribed by bounce processing. I thought we had actually done > something to stop sending to verizon.net, but I can't find anything (if > it was done, I didn't do it). > > Good luck, and if anyone has a way to actually contact Verizon other > than by submitting forms to an apparent black hole, please let us know. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net>The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/araasch%40gmail.com > -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Off topic, how to get in verizon.net's good graces?
All: We moved to a new server, new IP address and have SPF, DMARC, and DKIM working and being accepted by all the major email providers. We implemented Send_as_List as well. By inspecting the relayed email content we can see the major email providers are saying we pass on SPF, DMARC and DKIM. But, try as we may verizon.net still refuses to talk to our servers except to say it is rejecting our messages. Here is an example: Apr 3 06:53:13 www postfix/error[12377]: 4A718272B: to=< verizoncli...@verizon.net>, relay=none, delay=0.12, delays=0.03/0.06/0/0.03, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host relay.verizon.net[206.46.232.11] refused to talk to me: 571 Email from 192.168.1.1 is currently blocked by Verizon Online's anti-spam system. The email sender or Email Service Provider may visit http://www.verizon.net/whitelist and request removal of the block. 160403) The email address above is changed as well as the IP address of our email server. I have submitted multiple whitelist requests as shown above, and have seen no response whatsoever from Verizon. Frustrating. This has been going on for 5 days now. I am about to send emails out directly to our list subscribers asking them to migrate to another email provider, but thought I would ask the list if anyone else had any success with verizon.net and how they did it. Thanks in advance, Arlen Raasch -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] How to get the senders email address in the custom footer?
I have recently acquired the responsibility of maintaining a small listserver with about 1000 users. We are using version 2.1.16 of Mailman. The emails that currently are sent out via the listserv server have headers that include the original sender's email address as the "From:" address. Yahoo's and Aol's DMARC policy causes these to bounce as our server is not one they recognize. I have seen many posts regarding this problem, but no actual solutions that told me what I should do. This is not my area of expertise, just something that dropped in my lap. A strategy that makes some sense to me is to take ownership of the emails by identifying the listserv as the From and Reply-To addresses, but including a custom footer in the email that exposes the actual sender's email address. This should avoid Yahoo and Aol rejecting the email due to DMARC, as Yahoo and Aol will not be asked for their opinion as to what should or should not be done with this email. I set the annonomous_list setting to yes under general options, and sent a test email. The email went out fine, but nothing in the default email footer allowed others to know who actually sent the email out. I attempted to change the default non-digest footer to include the sender's address, but did not succeed. It appears that this info is regarding the recipient,not the sender's info. I.E. user x...@mydomain.com sends to y...@listserver.com, z...@hisdomain.com is also a member of the listserv and receives an email, but the footer to the email does not show xxx@mydomain, just info about z...@hisdomain.com. I tried the user_address, user_delivered_to, and user_name variables but none contained info regarding the sender. So, the question is how to get the sender's email address in the footer. Thanks in advance, -Arlen Raasch -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
