Re: [Mailman-Users] STUPID USERS

[Charles Gregory]

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Robert Fishel wrote:

I am subscribed to countless lists over 6 organizations that use
mailman one of which I run, there is no way I would want to receive a
reminder from each list, it's painful enough now for each
organization.


(nod) Perhaps a dash of intelligence in the notice generator, such that if 
a person is only on one list, they get the mail 'from' their list owner, 
but from the previously suggested 'trap' address if on more than one list?
Cuz really, if you are on more than one list, you've woken up to the fact 
that you are managing multiple lists, and have to *think* about how to do 
that. This problem (should) only exists for users who think of our lists 
as being 'only' the one to which they have subscribed


- Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] STUPID USERS

[Charles Gregory]

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

Is there NO way to get a reminder notice to come FROM the
list/list-owner, even given the obvious issue with possible multiple
lists?

It's a simple change. Just send one reminder per list.


How can I set that? (mm 2.1.5)


If you look carefully at the message you received and quoted, you will
see that the user first sent two 'help' commands to
mailman-requ...@hwcn.org, and then replied to the response saying that
it couldn't be understood. Perhaps I lack imagination, but I don't
know what I'd put in "a list of commands to manage each list" that
wouldn't be essentially what's in the response to a 'help' command, so
I don't think that would help in this case.


OMG. You are RIGHT. I just presumed it wasn't in there or 'clear' 
enough cuz otherwise they'd follow instructions, right? (shake head)

F'n stupid users. Augh.


I could change the response to a 'help' command to be From:
'list-owner' instead of 'list-bounces', and I think I will. I suspect
it's being From: list-bounces is an artifact from Mailman 2.0 when it
was From: list-admin. But, I don't see that helping in your example.
It would only remove the 'unrecognized bounce' packaging from the
message which would still go to you as owner.


(nod) Agreed. I just thought the 'bounce' added a layer of humor
to the situation. Though I think to be 'interesting', perhaps the 
'from:' for such automated replies could be "mailmanhelp", such that 
anyone stupid enough to 'just click reply' will trigger an 
autoresponder keyed to that address. One that sends a doubly clear 
"you have just done something stupid" notice. :)


- Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Are there other users? Was: STUPID USERS

[Charles Gregory]

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

For your amusement, and to emphasize my point, here is the message
I received as mailman-owner, because user SENT their mail to
'mailman-bounces'. (go fig)

I torture them with an appropriate autodiscard + autoreply


Well, my form letter has to be sent manually, but it was quite 
mind-boggling to see such a complex scenario that there wasn't the 
faintest chance of them interpreting the form letter correctly.

:)

- C
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[Mailman-Users] STUPID USERS

[Charles Gregory]

Once before, I asked about possible solutions to problems that occur 
when people misread and/or 'reply' to mailman 'administrative' emails.

I would like to cut-n-paste a latest mailing from a list subscriber
to emphasize the problem.

I'm not asking for an 'explanation', but I *am* asking that developers of 
mailman look through the email and SEE the 'chain of logic' that has a 
user sending requests to manage their 'bird list' subscription via the 
"last address used to send them mail about it." then eventually asking me 
to help them because they missed the critical piece of info that they need 
to do their commands on a 'per list' basis.


I'm complaining that my time is WASTED over and over by these ignorant 
mistakes. Is there NO way to get a reminder notice to come FROM the 
list/list-owner, even given the obvious issue with possible multiple 
lists? I know how mailman works, but these people DON'T. Could there at
least be an 'overview' function that recognizes mail sent to 
'mailman-request' and gives them a list of commands to manage each list?


For your amusement, and to emphasize my point, here is the message
I received as mailman-owner, because user SENT their mail to 
'mailman-bounces'. (go fig)



From mailman-boun...@hwcn.org Wed Aug  5 09:32:50 2009

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:32:49 -0400
From: mailman-boun...@hwcn.org
To: mailman-ow...@hwcn.org
Subject: Uncaught bounce notification

The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send all
unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).

For more information see:
http://king.hwcn.org/mailman/admin/mailman/bounce

[ Part 2: "Included Message" ]

Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:35:39 -0400
From: Helen <_...@bmts.com>
To: mailman-boun...@hwcn.org
Subject: Re: The results of your email commands

Could this information possibly be provided in a way that it can be 
understood ?  I would like my subscription to stop on August 09 2009 and 
resume on September 10 2009.My address is __...@bmts.com password . 
Thank you H.
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: <___...@bmts.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:22 PM
Subject: The results of your email commands



The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
original message.

- Results:
   Ignoring non-text/plain MIME parts
   help
   Help for Mailman mailing list:

This is email command help for version 2.1.5 of the "Mailman"
list manager.  The following describes commands you can send to get
information about and control your subscription to Mailman lists at
this site.  A command can be in the subject line or in the body of the
message.

Note that much of the following can also be accomplished via the World
Wide Web, at:

   http://king.hwcn.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman

In particular, you can use the Web site to have your password sent to
your delivery address.

List specific commands (subscribe, who, etc) should be sent to the
*-request address for the particular list, e.g. for the 'mailman'
list, use 'mailman-requ...@...'.

About the descriptions - words in "<>"s signify REQUIRED items and
words in "[]" denote OPTIONAL items.  Do not include the "<>"s or
"[]"s when you use the commands.

The following commands are valid:


   confirm 
   Confirm an action.  The confirmation-string is required and should 
be

   supplied by a mailback confirmation notice.

   end
   Stop processing commands.  Use this if your mail program 
automatically

   adds a signature file.

   help
   Print this help message.

   info
   Get information about this mailing list.

   lists
   See a list of the public mailing lists on this GNU Mailman server.

   password [ ] [address=]
   Retrieve or change your password.  With no arguments, this returns
   your current password.  With arguments  and 


   you can change your password.

   If you're posting from an address other than your membership 
address,
   specify your membership address with `address=' (no 
brackets
   around the email address, and no quotes!).  Note that in this case 
the

   response is always sent to the subscribed address.

   set ...
   Set or view your membership options.

   Use `set help' (without the quotes) to get a more detailed list of 
the

   options you can change.

   Use `set show' (without the quotes) to view your current option
   settings.

   subscribe [password] [digest|nodigest] [address=]
   Subscribe to this mailing list.  Your password must be given to
   unsubscribe or change your options, but if you omit the password, 
one
   will be generated for you.  You may be periodically reminded of 
your

   password.

   The next argument may be either: `nodigest' or `digest' (no 
quotes!).

   If you wish to subscribe an address other than the 

Re: [Mailman-Users] [mm] HELP!!!

[Charles Gregory]

Is that address properly aliased to mailman in /etc/aliases?

-C



When using your software I keep having the same problem and I really cannot 
figure out how to solve it!

How do I sent a emailmessage to all the people in my mailing list that I have 
put in it manually.

I have tried many things but nothing works. What is the problem?



I have a mailing list called t...@slimmer-denken.nl and I have a emailaccount 
called slimm...@slimmer-denken.nl



So when i send a emailmessage using slimm...@slimmer-denken.nl to 
t...@slimmer-denken.nl it suppose to send a email

to all my subscribers right? But it doesn't.



I have also tried serveral other things, but nothing works!



So how do I fix this? How does this work? I have looked on your website and 
read the FAQ but still nothing works.





So please help me out with this.



with kind regards,



Atma Ramsaran

_
Haal meer uit je leven met Windows Live
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Displaying Entire Membership List

[Charles Gregory]

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009, LuKreme wrote:

It's been an RFE for some time
.
I understand that for lists of one or two hundred members, it might be
desirable to show two to four pages of 50, but with thousands of
members, the alphabetic chunks may be preferred.


Rather than limit the display to addresses beginning with the specified 
letter, why not just have the listing *start* at the specified letter,
but continue to the end of the full list of members? If I select 'P' 
the list would start at 'P' and continue with 'Q' and 'R' up to 50 per 
page, and if I click the 'next' link, it would just keep going to the end 
of the list... Is there some efficiency to limiting the display to one 
letter of the alphabet?


- C
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Deleting messages from archive....

[Charles Gregory]

On Sat, 16 May 2009, Barry Warsaw wrote:
I've long thought that Pipermail should be split off from Mailman as a 
project, perhaps still bundled in whatever sumo distribution we provide. 
It would be very cool if a group of people worked together to make 
Pipermail not suck.


As a side note, is there a limit to how large the archive mbox can grow?
I've got several years in an archive now, and its pushing past 64MB...
Am I going to hit a limit soon? (CentOS 4, if that matters)

- Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] [mm] Deleting messages from archive....

[Charles Gregory]

On Fri, 15 May 2009, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

>Has anyone ever developed a point-n-click tool to delete
>a message from an archive, preferably by just eliminating the 
>From/To/Subject and body, but leaving the links intact, with

>a placeholder message that says "message content removed", etc?

It would totally rule. Especially on python.org, where people regret
posting their full name because "employers tend to google them", and
then come running to us, asking "Please remove my name".


Not withstanding your opinion of people who do this (which I cannot 
entirely disagree with - grin) you have brough to mind a number of 
scenarios where it might be beneficial to be able to quickly edit a
message, rather than delete it completely. For instance, someone posts a 
message with someone else's (unapproved) web link. The link needs to be 
removed, but the rest of the posting can stay as it is


As I think about this more deeply, I realize there are serious programming 
considerations. For example, the mesage subject appears in the pages that 
'index' the archive, as well as in the 'previous' and 'next' links of 
neighboring messages, sometimes not even in the same week/directory
I think if we permit editing of the subject it will have to, by default, 
change ALL references to that subject in all messages, just to keep things 
simple Presumably the only time a subject would be changed would be if 
it is offensive/abusive, so you would *want* to change alll of them. If 
some moron posts messages under the wrong subject, that is life on the 
list. We're not fixing that. LOL


Of course, there are some ethical issues to visit. Any editor should be 
certain to insert a disclaimer in the message body which says "THIS 
MESSAGE HAS BEEN EDITED BY LIST ADMINS SUBSEQUENT TO POSTING", just so

that original authors do not feel they've been misrepresented, etc, etc.

I can presume that if someone is comfortable with regenerating their 
archive from the mbox at ANY time, they wouldn't mind editing it for 
occasions like these. So I'm going to presume that this utility that is 
forming in my mind is for people who have already decided that they will 
*never* regenerate their archives from mboxes. Numbering and links will 
always be preserved So we need only be concerned with a utility that 
will updates the html and txt archives...


- Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] [mm] Deleting messages from archive....

[Charles Gregory]

On Fri, 15 May 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

One issue is the tool wouldn't be so simple. You can't just edit the
HTML article because if that's all you do, the content will return if
you ever rebuilt the archive. The content is in 3 or 4 places - the
LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox raw archive, the HTML article, the
periodic .txt file and the periodic .txt.gz file if any.


(nod) And for what I want, it would have to edit each of those spots,
to avoid any link-breaking due to numbering issues


The cleanest way to do it is to edit the LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox
and rebuild the pipermail archive, but that is an expensive process
and can have unintended side effects.


As noted in the (excellent) FAQ's, this disturbs external links.
So I'm going for the nitty-gritty version

- Charles
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[Mailman-Users] Deleting messages from archive....

[Charles Gregory]

Has anyone ever developed a point-n-click tool to delete
a message from an archive, preferably by just eliminating the 
From/To/Subject and body, but leaving the links intact, with

a placeholder message that says "message content removed", etc?

I found lots of FAQ's and posts on the 'manual' way to do it.
Just surprised there were no references to a quick-n-easy tool

It would be really nice if this could integrate with the
mailman admin pages, so that list owners could manage their own
archives Alternately, an e-mail control (which I could key to 
sender address) would suffice.


- Charles
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[Mailman-Users] Monthly notice sender

[Charles Gregory]

Hallo!

This may be more of a 'feature request' than a problem (smile)

A few times each month I get an e-mail from someone requesting something 
as simple as 'please unsubscribe me' sent to 'mailman-owner' rather than 
to the owner of the list to which they are subscribed. It's fairly obvious 
that they are finding the 'monthly reminder' e-mail and just hitting 
'reply' in their mail client.


I understand how/why one mailing covers all possible lists/subscriptions,
but I have to wonder if there could be a way to have a notice mailed for 
each list, with the appropriate list owner as return address? Or perhaps, 
on that single mailing for all lists, have some sort of generic 
non-deliverable sender/reply address, so that people can't just 
hit the reply button?


- Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] [mm] Re: Help for mailto: in footer.

[Charles Gregory]

On Thu, 7 May 2009, bob 001 wrote:



Um, if this is a cut-n-paste, then please note you are missing a closing 
quote


- Charles

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Re: [Mailman-Users] No Admin Notification

[Charles Gregory]

On Fri, 1 May 2009, J.R. Constance wrote:
I am having a problem with one of my lists where the administrators are not 
being notified of posts awaiting approval. This list is set right now to 
"Emergency moderation" so all posts are being held, but neither I nor the 
other administrator are receiving notifications of held messages.
Any ideas on what the problem might be? I actually think it's a problem with 
a corrupt config.pck but not sure how I might go about even testing that.


On my CentOS 4 machine I found a strange 'quirk' that stopped mail to list 
owners. I had to hard-code the alias in /etc/aliases for list-owner to 
point to the real owner e-mail, rather than let mailman handle the 
redirection. Give that a try.


- Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems after CentOS upgrade....

[Charles Gregory]

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

Interestingly enough, when I shutdown mailman it reports an SMTP failure
for a message it appears to have been 'attempting' to send...

And what failure does it report?
Apr 24 12:26:48 2009 (7363) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted system 
call'), msgid: 
Apr 24 12:26:48 2009 (7363) Low level smtp error: (104, 'Connection reset 
by peer'), msgid: 


...followed by a whole series of
Apr 24 12:26:48 2009 (7363) delivery to a...@anydomain.tld failed with 
code -1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')



What's in qfiles/out and qfiles/retry?


Where are these hiding? Tried /var/lib/mailman /usr/lib/mailman

It's important to note that the failure logs only appear upon shutdown.
This would suggest that mailman (and postfix) are stuck until I force
the shutdown, which then 'resets' the connection between the two


See the FAQ at .


No help.

- C
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems after CentOS upgrade....

[Charles Gregory]

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

Mailman seemed to 'lock up', and queued all outgoing messages until I did
a restart

First of all, my .02 on rebooting - If you do a yum upgrade that
updates "system files", you should reboot. If you don't, and there is
some issue due to the upgrade, the next time you have an unplanned
reboot due to a power failure or some other external event, you will
have problems ultimately caused by this upgrade, and you may not even
remember this upgrade as a potential cause.


My problem is that my system is in a hard-to-access co-lo, which means I 
don't want to risk a reboot that causes problems that can only be 
addressed from a console. So I'm hoping I can avoid the reboot. Otherwise 
I'll have to schedule it for when the box is accessible.



Regarding the Mailman issue per se, was Python involved in the upgrade?


Don't think so.


See various Mailman logs such as error and smtp-failure for problems.


Interestingly enough, when I shutdown mailman it reports an SMTP failure 
for a message it appears to have been 'attempting' to send, then 
shuts down. If I have a 'bad' message in the queue, how would I check 
this, and erase/drop it?



See the FAQ at .


Took a run through. Most of the suggestions relate to 'it never worked' 
conditions, as opposed to 'it was working and stopped', or 'it only works 
when I restart it'.


- C
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[Mailman-Users] Problems after CentOS upgrade....

[Charles Gregory]

Hallo!

This may not specifically be a mailman problem, but I'm noticing
strange behaviour in mailmain, as well as in general on my mail server.

Background: My CentOS 4 system ran an automatic 'yum' update two days 
ago, and it updated many system files. I'm not an expert, but it looks 
like the 'kernel' and many 'lib' files were updated. The system did not 
'reboot', but during this process everal daemons were automatically 
restarted, and my 'Mail Avenger' daemon just failed (which caused 
temporary delay of incoming mail). I had to restart 'asmtpd' and for good 
measure, restarted postfix.


Mailman seemed to 'lock up', and queued all outgoing messages until I did 
a restart mid-yesterday. I got another complaint today, did another 
restart, and once again the list messages are going out. But I have no 
guarantee that it won't keep repeating this behaviour. Has anyone heard or 
seen any explanation for behaviour like this?


It may be a postfix issue, even though postfix was *not* among the updated 
programs. I'm noticing that I'm seeing multiple copies of *some* messages 
from this list. They have the Received Lines showing they were sent 
multiple times by the list serve, almost as if they had 4xx errors the 
first time? Very strange.


I don't really want to reboot the whole system, especially where the 
stability of it is in doubt. Any advice welcome (anyone know a good, 
active CentOS mailing list that might have an angle on this?).


Thanks!

- Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Disable processing not working?

[Charles Gregory]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

It looks like the 'disable on excessive bounces' is not working right...


The issue in your case is your incoming MTA is probably not delivering
mail for LISTNAME-bounces+TOKEN to LISTNAME-bounces.
If the MTA is Postfix, you need (in main.cf):
recipient_delimiter = +


This is exactly what was needed! THANKS!

- Charles
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[Mailman-Users] Bounce Disable processing not working?

[Charles Gregory]

It looks like the 'disable on excessive bounces' is not working right for 
my (only) list 'ontbirds' The bounce log contains patterns like this 
(trimmed to show one address behaviour, omitting 'already counted' 
messages):


Apr 05 09:15:34 2009 (20408) _...@___: ontbirds current bounce score: 2.0
Apr 06 00:26:23 2009 (20408) _...@___: ontbirds current bounce score: 3.0
Apr 06 00:26:23 2009 (20408) sending ontbirds list
 probe to: _...@___ (score 3.0 >= 2.5)
Apr 07 07:47:22 2009 (20408) _...@___: ontbirds current bounce score: 1.0
Apr 08 10:57:38 2009 (20408) _...@___: ontbirds current bounce score: 2.0
Apr 09 08:08:36 2009 (20408) _...@___: ontbirds current bounce score: 3.0
Apr 09 08:08:36 2009 (20408) sending ontbirds list
 probe to: _...@___ (score 3.0 >= 2.5)
Apr 10 08:57:05 2009 (20408) _...@___: ontbirds current bounce score: 1.0

This seems to be happening for ALL permanently bouncing addresses. 
And I see no trace of 'disabled' anywhere in the logs Or is there

a different buzzword I should grep for?

mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.6

Yes, the bounce score threshold is 2.5
I have bounce info stale after set to 3 days, and addresses which bounce 
for just a day or so are noted in the logs as 'bounce info discarded', so 
I don't think this is the problem.


Any other info needed to solve this?

- Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Soft bounces....

[Charles Gregory]

On Sun, 5 Apr 2009, Brad Knowles wrote:

What do (Yahoo) mean "different classes" of mail?


Personal, Commercial, Listmail. I can see their point. If listmail tries 
to send mail to a 5xx address for a couple of days, that 'lowers the 
reputation' of that IP more than when a personal mail gets a 5xx and the 
human sending it doesn't send any more mail to that address


Still means that list mail has slowdowns, but personal mail won't

If you're using postfix, it should be easy enough to tell it to use a 
given IP address when transmitting mail to yahoo.com, and use a 
different address when transmitting to anywhere else.


This is the second postfix capability (the other was 'separate queues') 
that has been referenced that I find interesting. Could you kindly point 
me to a decent manual/doc/faq for either of these? Particularly adjusting 
sending IP according to sender address would be VERY cool
(Or please reply personally if you think a quick reply would suffice. I 
don't want to clutter the list with OT material).


Thanks!

- Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] [-0.5] Re: Soft bounces....

[Charles Gregory]

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

If you're getting "bounces" like "message undeliverable after 4 hours;
will keep trying until message is 5 days old" Mailman should be
ignoring those.


I apologize for not thinking through the fact that a 4xx would have to 
continue for 4 hours before mailman ever heard about it, but now you are 
saying that notice is ignored. So, I seem to have misunderstood the docs.
I thought '4xx' errors (when they get back to mailman) were 'soft', so 
if 'message undeliverable for 4 hours' doesn't count, then what 
messages does mailman treat as a 'soft' bounce and only score 0.5?



If it isn't, send me a complete, raw copy of the DSN,
and I'll fix it and tell you how to fix yours.


I'm not working on DSN's, I'm fighting with yahoo over large numbers of 
stupid, needless 4xx delays in my mail logs (and log reports). There 
aren't very many things in their generic 'explanations' that seem to 
apply. So I'm trying to cut down on our system attempting to send mail to 
5xx recipients at Yahoo.


Further to this topic, another suggestion from Yahoo would be to use 
different IP addresses for different classes of mail. Short of running the 
mail on a separate server, I was thinking I might try running a separate 
instance of postfix to send mail from a separate IP. But then how would I 
tell mailman to use *that* instance of postfix?


- Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Soft bounces....

[Charles Gregory]

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009, Brad Knowles wrote:

 Yahoo expects me to respond promptly to 5xx bounces, disabling any
 subscriptions, otherwise it starts generating 'greylist' 4xx bounces for
 my mail. Unfortunately, if I try to lower the bounce threshold, the
 now-daily occurence of 4xx bounces guarantees that all yahoo addresses
 will end up disabled. Is there any way, short of fiddling with and
 recompiling from source, to separate 'hard' bounce handling from 'soft'
 bounce handling, or to change the 'scores' that each accumulates?
Thing is, Mailman doesn't see the 5xx or 4xx codes directly.  It hands 
the messages off to your MTA, and your MTA sees those codes.


Good point. Even though I'm seeing 'deferals' in the MTA logs, they 
don't go long enough to generate '4 hour warnings' that mailman 
would have to handle as a 'soft bounce'. Just verified this in the logs

(where I should have looked first! LOL). Excellent! Thanks!

Since we do not, and we cannot, have direct access to the 5xx versus 4xx 
response codes from Yahoo!, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to try 
to modify the code to treat a bounce resulting from a permanent 5xx 
response code any different from a "delayed message" notice resulting 
from a temporary 4xx response code.


(nod) No, all I need to do now is lower the threshold so Yahoo won't see 
so many attempts to send mail to 5xx addresses Then maybe they'll stop 
doing so many 4xx delays of my mail (not just a mailman problem, 
incidentally).


Set up your MTA to handle Yahoo! separately from other sites, so that 
any slow downs there don't slow you down in getting to other domains, 
and vice-versa.


I use postfix, so the performance of yahoo delivery doesn't really impact 
other mail, other than the impact of the extra load of retries...
Though I find it ironic that Yahoo sends lots of mail to me for unknown 
users :)


Thanks again!

- Charles

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[Mailman-Users] Soft bounces....

[Charles Gregory]

Hallo!

Running into a small bit of frustration.

Yahoo expects me to respond promptly to 5xx bounces, disabling any 
subscriptions, otherwise it starts generating 'greylist' 4xx bounces for 
my mail. Unfortunately, if I try to lower the bounce threshold, the 
now-daily occurence of 4xx bounces guarantees that all yahoo addresses 
will end up disabled. Is there any way, short of fiddling with and 
recompiling from source, to separate 'hard' bounce handling from 'soft' 
bounce handling, or to change the 'scores' that each accumulates?


Or any other trick to handle bounces properly when yahoo is tossing out 
greylist deferrals. At this point is just amounts to a nuisance with 
delayed deliveries for a lot of list mail. But it would be better to have 
our mailman properly disable when 5xx errors occur


- Charles, HWCN
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Re: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation

[Charles Gregory]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Patrick Bogen wrote:
> > Bouncing back a message which tells a user his original message is held
> > for moderation is now a bad idea if we want to stay out of the black list
> > of spamcop  Gadi.
> I'm not entirely sure what the point of this message was.

The point *I* got was, even if you successfully filter with every 'safe'
method of spam filtering we can imagine, roughly 5-10% of spam will end up
reaching mailman, and when mailman sends its 'routine' message back to
'sender', it is generating backscatter that is cause for blacklisting.

The only suggestion I can come up with is some simple last-minute
filtering within mailman itself: Only send a 'holding' notice if the
visible 'From' header matches the Envelope Sender, and if the visibile
'To' address contains the mailman list address. The advantage to handling
this within mailman, and not in spamassassin, is that you aren't choosing
to discard the mail based on this criteria. You're just deciding whether
to send a courtesy e-mail warning of moderation.

Of course, you could simply choose not to send any warnings at all. Let
people who try to post figure it out for themselves. A good list home
page, and/or disclaimers at the bottom of list mail should help with this.

- Charles




 > > Bearing that in mind, you shouldn't be using moderation as
a > first-line anti-spam defense. Your MTA should be tagging emails as
> spam (e.g., using Spamassassin, or something better suited to your
> particular configuration), greylisting, etc. With a properly
> configured setup, the spam that actually reaches the moderation
> interface should be minimal; most of it should be discarded (not
> rejected) by mailman, at the very least.
> 
> This is fairly trivial to implement; just set up your MTA to pass mail
> through spamassassin, and then add a check for the headers it adds to
> mailman's list configuration, if nothing else.
> 
> If I'm understanding your concern, the key here is for you to
> configure your mailman installation to discard known spam messages
> rather than rejecting them. This is, in fact, one of the options on
> the moderation screen (you may choose to Accept, Defer, Reject, or
> Discard messages).
> 
> Additionally, as far as I know, you CAN moderate non-members
> differently; although perhaps I don't have the same understanding of
> that phrase as you do. You can set messages from non-members to be
> automatically discarded or rejected, as you wish. See Privacy Options
> > Sender Filters > generic_nonmember_action
> 
> -- 
> - Patrick Bogen
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[Mailman-Users] RESOLVED: Cron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> /usr/bin/python -S/var/mailman/cron/senddigests

[Charles Gregory]

Hi and thanks!

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I think the error comes from a messahe part that has
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 and has incorrect padding at the
> end. You haven't seen it before, because it is the result of an
> encoding error by one person's broken MUA or possibly a message
> garbled in transit.

(nod) That is what I gathered from the web. But it keeps happening
every day. And thanks to your next comment I figured it out.

> You have to find the problem message which will be in some list's
> lists/listname/digest.mbox file and edit the file to either fix or
> remove the problem message. The list will be the first one in
> alphabetical order that isn't getting it's periodic digests.

THANKS! I keep forgetting that apart from our main list we have a couple
of other small 'unused' ones. Unused, except that they attract the
occasional piece of spam! While the digest.mbox for the main list was
cycling properly, the digest.mbox for one of the smaller ones was 'stuck'
starting with the date the error appeared!

Fortunately no one gets the digest on that list, so I just trashed it.
And I am also happy because this means there is no 'regular poster'
on the main list using a broken MUA. (wipe brow with relief)

Excellent! So the cause was what I thought. I just had to look in the
right list for the 'bad' message. Thanks again!

- Charles

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[Mailman-Users] PROBLEM: Cron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> /usr/bin/python -S /var/mailman/cron/senddigests

[Charles Gregory]

Additional note: I'm now digging through the archives (and having
better luck finding 'incorrect padding' as a search term).

It looks like it is caused by an attachment coding prob? Makes me wonder
why I am running into it now after years of successful posts? 

Is it possible I could just tell list members to NOT USE some particular
'function' or 'attachment'? The list is configured to only pass/permit
attachments of :

   multipart/mixed
   multipart/alternative
   text/plain
   text/html

- Charles

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Charles Gregory wrote:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/var/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
> main()
>   File "/var/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
> mlist.send_digest_now()
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in send_digest_now
> ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 123, in send_digests
> send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 295, in 
> send_i18n_digests
> msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 252, in process
> payload = part.get_payload(decode=1)
>   File "/var/tmp/mailman-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 
> 189, in get_payload
>   File "/var/tmp/mailman-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 75, 
> in _bdecode
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/base64.py", line 44, in decodestring
> return binascii.a2b_base64(s)
> binascii.Error: Incorrect padding
> 
> ---
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> - Charles
> 
> 
> 
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[Mailman-Users] PROBLEM: Cron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> /usr/bin/python -S /var/mailman/cron/senddigests

[Charles Gregory]

Hello! I've just subscribed to see if anyone here is familiar with 
the error report I am now getting repeatedly from mailman (see below).

Also, I'm not certain yet, but it appears my archiving may have
stopped working. When I go to check archives, there are no
listings for the current week. 

If there is a specific set of info I can post (config, etc)
let me know. I've made no changes to list settings in the
past few days, and my postfix logs seem to show individual e-mails 
going out from the lists.

Incidentally, I'm sorry, but generic fixes like "upgrade mailman" won't
help me, because I'm stuck with the Red Hat 9 rpm. (sigh)
But if someone can tell me how to 'unstick' the following error,
I would appreciate it. 

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 12:00:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Cron Daemon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WL] Cron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> /usr/bin/python -S
/var/mailman/cron/senddigests

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
main()
  File "/var/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
mlist.send_digest_now()
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in send_digest_now
ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 123, in send_digests
send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 295, in 
send_i18n_digests
msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 252, in process
payload = part.get_payload(decode=1)
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 
189, in get_payload
  File "/var/tmp/mailman-root/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 75, 
in _bdecode
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/base64.py", line 44, in decodestring
return binascii.a2b_base64(s)
binascii.Error: Incorrect padding

---

Thanks,

- Charles



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Re: [Mailman-Users] FOUND the RTFM

[Charles Gregory]

UPDATE: 
Now that I have the answers, I know what questions I should have asked:

1) Where are the README files - they are not on the www.list.org site!
   A: On RH9 they are in /usr/share/docs/mailman.

2) How do I configure HTTP to access the mailman GUI interface.
   A: On RH9 it is preconfigured - use http://www.site.tld/mailman
   (Note: You must configure the domain name URL and E-mail setup in
/var/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py)

I searched the archives for this list and found further info on
configuring HTTP, and a copy of the README for integrating Mailman with
postfix. May I suggest adding this basic 'installation' info to the top of
the site administrator docs? 

Thansk!

- Charles

On 2 Mar 2004, Jon Carnes wrote:
> On Mon, 2004-03-01 at 19:00, Charles Gregory wrote:
> > Hallo!
> > 
> > I'm trying to setup and run the standard mailman included with 
> > Red Hat Linux 9. This is an 'RPM' install, so I don't have the
> > source code files to read the 'README's. Supposedly, Mailman has an 
> > easy to use web based interface/control panel? I would appreciate
> > it if someone could help provide a link to a simple 'howto' for setting up
> > the initial web interface on RH9/Postfix. Presumably once I've got *that*
> > running, the site-admin pages should be fairly straight-forward.
> > 
> > Please reply directly, I am not on any mailing list for mailman (yet).
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Charles Gregory  Hamilton CommunityNet Member Services
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Connecting the Community! www.hwcn.org
> 
> http://www.list.org/docs.html
> 
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 


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[Mailman-Users] Please help me RTFM

[Charles Gregory]

Hallo!

I'm trying to setup and run the standard mailman included with 
Red Hat Linux 9. This is an 'RPM' install, so I don't have the
source code files to read the 'README's. Supposedly, Mailman has an 
easy to use web based interface/control panel? I would appreciate
it if someone could help provide a link to a simple 'howto' for setting up
the initial web interface on RH9/Postfix. Presumably once I've got *that*
running, the site-admin pages should be fairly straight-forward.

Please reply directly, I am not on any mailing list for mailman (yet).

Thanks.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Charles Gregory  Hamilton CommunityNet Member Services
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Connecting the Community! www.hwcn.org


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