[Mailman-Users] Debian/wheezy backport = 2.1.18
Hello world, does anyone currently know of installable packages for Mailman = 2.1.18 for Debian/wheezy to address the DMARC style problems? I'm hesistant to re-package it myself or install from sources. Cheers Stefan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Debian/wheezy backport = 2.1.18
* Bjoern Franke b...@nord-west.org: Am Sonntag, den 22.06.2014, 13:35 +0200 schrieb Stefan Foerster: Hello world, does anyone currently know of installable packages for Mailman = 2.1.18 for Debian/wheezy to address the DMARC style problems? I'm hesistant to re-package it myself or install from sources. There was a backport-request on https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=746592 Even in unstable/sid the version is only 2.1.16. Ah darn, I was afraid of something like that. Well, FWIW, I just fired up a vagrant VM and built http://stuff.incertum.net/mailman/ It's likely to be broken - especially qmail-to-mailman.py, but it works for me[tm]. Feedback welcome, though I'll be on vacation soon... Cheers Stefan P.S: BTW, that's NOT how one should build/distribute/upgrade Debian packages! signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman needs 20 seconds to complete per email
Hello Karsten, * Karsten Becker karsten.bec...@ecologic.eu: What I can see in the mail.log is, that the incoming email towards a mailing list gets transported nearby at once from Postfix to Mailman. Then I see nothing in the Mailman logs for 20 seconds. Then Mailman prints out these message shown below and nearby at once I see the email in mail.log going out via Postfix. if you want this debugged properly, we will need: 1. postconf -n output, as well as master.cf excerpts of the smtpd services you access 2. postfix logs from a posting that get's delayed, if possible, delivery from outside to mailman and from mailman back to postfix 3. the corresponding mailman log All logs should contain the timestamps. Without full logs there is no way we can help you solve this. Cheers Stefan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman continues to deliver to deleted list
* Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net: First of all, if the list is gone, i.e. there is no lists/LISTNAME/ directory in Mailman's hierarchy, no currently queued messages will be processed. Outgoing runner or some other runner may pick up queue entries for this list, but the list won't be there, so the queued message will be shunted with an error log message 'Dequeuing message destined for missing list: LISTNAME'. Therefore, you can just restart Mailman and any messages in Mailman's queues from the affected list will just wind up in the shunt queue and won't be processed. I am aware of how to get rid of shunted messages but I'd like to know if there are performance penalites for keeping a moderate amount (1k) of messages around in the shunted queue for about a month. As far as I understand, the shunted queue is not directly involved in message delivery, so there should be no performance hit, right? This way I could play it safe, keep those messages around for a certain time (they might turn out important after all) and then have a cron job delete them. Thanks Stefan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..
* Khalil Abbas khillo...@hotmail.com: well I bought this server: RAM 1x 4 GB DDR2-RAM ECC HDD 2x 500 GB SATA II-HDD 7.200 rpm Barebone 1x Fujitsu PRIMERGY RX100 S5 CPU 1x Intel Xeon X3320 Quadcore I did set the SMTP_MAX_RCPT to 5 .. then I created a list of 10,000 members, n it delivered them in like 5-6 minutes .. This should probably be handled on the postfix-users list (or perhaphs I should ninja-CC Ralf... good idea!), but with the above hardware, even considering that the disks are rather low end, you really shouldn't have to limit the recipients per mail transaction or throttle the injection rate. I'd predict that delivery of a message to a large number of recipients will even be faster if there are _more_ recipients per message. Go with SMTP_MAX_RCPT=1000 in Mailman but limit the number of Postfix processes, start with 20 (postconf -e default_process_limit=20 postfix reload), see how that works out for you and increase the default_process_limit if it works well until performance gets worse. Any Postfix people care to comment? Cheers Stefan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Unsubscribing on ARF reports
The subject pretty much sums it up: How do I unsubscribe morons^Wusers that report list mail as spam instead of unsubscribing, causing ARF reports from their mail service providers? I know the python.org listmasters have some working Python scripts to do that stuff (it's mentioned in Ralf's/Patrick's deliverability slides), do you guys share? Cheers Stefan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribing on ARF reports
* Ralf Hildebrandt ralf.hildebra...@charite.de: * Stefan Foerster cite+mailman-us...@incertum.net: I know the python.org listmasters have some working Python scripts to do that stuff (it's mentioned in Ralf's/Patrick's deliverability slides), do you guys share? No scripts. It's merely reading the ARF WTF?!? That must be a pretty low volume of ARFs. arf arf Stefan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] How to install Mailman 2.1.13 on Debian Lenny
* Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net: Ulf Dunkel wrote: They asked me to install Mailman v2.1.13 manually because this doesn't seem to be possible with apt-get right now. Because I have not installed a single app myself without the help of the package manager aptitude, I am kind of stuck. Can you give me a little howto? [...] You might also look at other Debian patches at http://patch-tracker.debian.org/package/mailman. In particular, those Defaults.py.in patches in 01_defaults.debian.patch are things you probably want in mm_cfg.py to keep doing things the Debian way. I backported 2.1.13 to stable, pending upload at http://debian.incertum.net/ within the next ten minutes. Cheers Stefan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
* Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net: On 2/21/2010 2:15 AM, Stefan Foerster wrote: Bad news. I was not able to reproduce the problem on a VM, using backups from the day the problem first occured. And worse, this night, while I slept a troubled, disturbed sleep, dreaming of SMTP dialogues, the list roster changed (one new member)- and the problem is gone. Since I couldn't understand what possibly caused the problem in the first place, I'm not totally surprised. Good news (kinda) - another list on that server just started to slow down, and this time, it is a very unimportant and small list (472 members, 466 of them have mail delivery enabled), so I can take all the time in the world to try and debug this issue. [instructions for list duplication /SMTP redirection] Unfortunately, I don't have any good ideas as to how to proceed from there, even if this does duplicate the problem, but Barry indicated he has a couple of ideas. Well, unfortunately, this doesn't reproduce the problem. Neither does stopping Mailman and copying every single file to another server. However, restarting Mailman (something I don't do very often) does _not_ solve the problem, either. Do you think I can drop Barry a PM off-list and ask him for further advice if he doesn't read this? I'm really interested in debugging this, and as I said, this time I really don't care about the list delivery being slow. Stefan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Possibly OT: VERP to plussed addresses
I have noticed that Mailman seems to be capable to correctly parse bounces that come from a plussed address. Example: I'm subscribed to this list with cite+mailman-us...@example.net so the sender address looks like this: mailman-users-bounces+cite+mailman-users=example@python.org While it's very nice that this is working - _why_ does it work? Does Mailman simply start at the leftmost +? Oh, and BTW: Happy 1st of a month, python.org listmasters! Enjoy your bounces ;-) Stefan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
* Stefan Foerster cite+mailman-us...@incertum.net: * Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net: As I said, I think it would just be the config.pck. Everything else is open source software, but I don't think I want it. It's not that I'm not curious because I definitely am, but I don't want to accidentally send mail to any of the list members. I suppose I could just create a pseudo MTA to listen on the SMTPPORT you use and just respond with 250 to every message. A plan! I will have a look at the wiki to see how I go about moving a list to another host. Then, tomorrow morning (it's 11pm here), I'll setup a VM, install the same set of packages and copy over anything that is closely mailman related. Bad news. I was not able to reproduce the problem on a VM, using backups from the day the problem first occured. And worse, this night, while I slept a troubled, disturbed sleep, dreaming of SMTP dialogues, the list roster changed (one new member)- and the problem is gone. I've been doing system administration tasks since 1997, and this still feels more like voodoo than science, sometimes. Stefan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
Hello world, I have a very strange performance problem which only affects one small announce-only list with approximately 11000 recipients: The smtp logfile shows that it takes Mailman about 8400 seconds to deliver the mails, which just doesn't make sense. Setup: Mailman is configured to deliver outgoing mails to a dedicated Postfix smtpd(8) daemon listening on port 10031. That daemon is configured with all the usual stuff, no DNS lookups, no recipient verification, no pre-queue filters, dedicated DNS caches and so on (if it really matters, I can post the complete configuration to this list). VERP and personalization are turned off on the Mailman side. Postfix version is 2.8-20100213, but I ran a quick test with 2.6.5 just to be safe, and it doesn't change anything. Mailman version is 2.1.11 from Debian/stable. After I first noticed the problem, I checked the logs - nothing suspicious there. So I decided to to take some TCP captures. For all other lists on this server, the conversation between Postfix and Mailman is very fast paced, but for that one list, it takes almost one second for a recipient to be specified (which is then acknowledged immediately by Postfix). I really don't have any idea where I coul start debugging, or how. Normally it is the MTAs performance that people need to worry about, but that particular mailserver isn't busy at all, not even handling 550k messages per day. Posting to all other lists only takes a fraction of time, even ones that are much larger. There are no old queue files around, no exceptions being thrown, no process running at 100% CPU load during delivery, nothing shunted - it's just slow. As a quick workaround, I've increased the overall parallelism, as Ian Eiloart pointed out in [1], to ensure that the one slow list doesn't block anything, so the issue isn't really top priority - I'd be very grateful for any hints, though. Stefan [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2009-June/020643.html -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
* Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net: On 2/20/2010 4:21 AM, Stefan Foerster wrote: So, without VERP or personalization, you should be seeing SMTP transactions that look like HELO response MAIL FROM response RCPT TO response (repeated for up to SMTP_MAX_RCPTS recipients) DATA response (message data) (MAIL FROM through DATA repeats until all recipients are delivered) QUIT Yes. I assume you wanted me to check if there were any errors in this dialogue - but there are none. Neither logfiles from the Python smtplib, nor the the Postfix logs. The TCP caputure didn't show any errors, too. And yes, I verified that there really isn't any VERP or personalization involved (again, I read Postfix logs (nrcpt=large number) and TCP streams). And, if I understand what you're saying, the delay is in the RCPT TO/response loop and it occurs between the response and the next RCPT TO. Yes. From debuglevel(1) logs: Feb 20 19:03:15 2010 qrunner(7551): send: 'rcpt TO:recipie...@example.com\r\n' Feb 20 19:03:15 2010 qrunner(7551): reply: '250 2.1.5 Ok\r\n' Feb 20 19:03:15 2010 qrunner(7551): reply: retcode (250); Msg: 2.1.5 Ok Feb 20 19:03:17 2010 qrunner(7551): send: 'rcpt TO:recipie...@example.com\r\n' Feb 20 19:03:17 2010 qrunner(7551): reply: '250 2.1.5 Ok\r\n' Feb 20 19:03:17 2010 qrunner(7551): reply: retcode (250); Msg: 2.1.5 Ok If you want me to, I can gather detailed timing data with tcpdump and/or wireshark. I really don't have any idea where I coul start debugging, or how. Nor do I really. Humurous remark: That's not what you want to hear from the guy who actually wrote the application! ;-) I'm running out of ideas. My Postfix smtpd(8) for mailman looks like that: 127.0.0.1:10031 inet n - - - - smtpd -o mynetworks=127.0.0.0/8 -o content_filter= -o smtpd_proxy_filter= -o receive_override_options=no_header_body_checks,no_address_mappings,no_unknown_recipient_checks -o smtpd_client_connection_count_limit=0 -o smtpd_client_connection_rate_limit=0 -o smtpd_error_sleep_time=0 -o smtpd_soft_error_limit=1001 -o smtpd_hard_error_limit=1000 -o smtpd_restriction_classes= -o smtpd_client_restrictions= -o smtpd_helo_restrictions= -o smtpd_sender_restrictions= -o smtpd_recipient_restrictions=permit_mynetworks,reject -o smtpd_data_restrictions= -o smtpd_end_of_data_restrictions= -o smtpd_authorized_xforward_hosts=127.0.0.0/8 -o syslog_name=postfix-mm No magic involved here. My mm_cfg.py: MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman' DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/' PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/mailman/private' IMAGE_LOGOS = '/images/mailman/' DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.example.com' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.example.com' add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en' DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0 USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = 0 MTA=None # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist DEB_LISTMASTER='postmas...@example.net' SMTPPORT = 10031 I am not able to find anything that is specific to this list, and I'm not sure where I could look further. Stefan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
* Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net: Does this delay occur uniformly over the entire list, or only within some group of recipients? It occurs for all recipients, more or less - sometimes, it gets about 5 recipients done per second, but that's still far too slow. You could try running OutgoingRunner with Python's trace module http://docs.python.org/library/trace.html#command-line-usage, e.g. python -m trace [trace opts] bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 To do this, you'd probably want to stop OutgoingRunner(s), post to the list and then stop Mailman so you have only the one message to this list in the out/ queue, and then run the trace as above, but I would only do this as a last ditch effort, because I'm not sure it would be helpful. I fear I've got a decision to make here: To fix that problem, I'd normally simply export the recipient list and recreate the mailing list thereafter. But since we don't know what causes this behaviour, I can't be sure that my backups include all files I need to recreate that problem on a different machine for debugging purposes. So, if you are personally interested in this, I would talk to a lawyer to find a way how I can legally provide you with a copy of every file that is in any way related to this list. If you are not _that_ interested, I'd just go ahead and wipe that list (and cross fingers). Thank you for your time and your insightful comments. Stefan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
* Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org: On Feb 20, 2010, at 09:56 PM, Stefan Foerster wrote: So, if you are personally interested in this, I would talk to a lawyer to find a way how I can legally provide you with a copy of every file that is in any way related to this list. If you are not _that_ interested, I'd just go ahead and wipe that list (and cross fingers). Thank you for your time and your insightful comments. Have you tried any of the Postfix debugging strategies? http://www.postfix.org/DEBUG_README.html As expected, Postfix is not the culprit. Delivery to smtp-sink is running at the speed of molasses, too. Stefan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
* Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net: On 2/20/2010 12:56 PM, Stefan Foerster wrote: So, if you are personally interested in this, I would talk to a lawyer to find a way how I can legally provide you with a copy of every file that is in any way related to this list. As I said, I think it would just be the config.pck. Everything else is open source software, but I don't think I want it. It's not that I'm not curious because I definitely am, but I don't want to accidentally send mail to any of the list members. I suppose I could just create a pseudo MTA to listen on the SMTPPORT you use and just respond with 250 to every message. A plan! I will have a look at the wiki to see how I go about moving a list to another host. Then, tomorrow morning (it's 11pm here), I'll setup a VM, install the same set of packages and copy over anything that is closely mailman related. Actually, you could try that too and see what it does with your list. I'll make a little Python script for that. I did the testing with smtp-sink, which is running just fine. I'll report back if I can reproduce the problem on the virtual machine. Ralf just had the idea to cimpare the output from config_list to that of another announce-only list, but apart from owners, messages and the ususal stuff, there is absolutely no difference. Stefan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Delivery to SMTP server very slow
* Brad Knowles b...@shub-internet.org: On Feb 20, 2010, at 3:27 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: As I said, I think it would just be the config.pck. Everything else is open source software, but I don't think I want it. It's not that I'm not curious because I definitely am, but I don't want to accidentally send mail to any of the list members. Another test would be to break up the large list into a number of smaller sub-lists with an umbrella list. That would allow Mailman to have a lot more internal parallelism, and not get into lock synchronization issues over config.pck. You could also run multiple sets of qrunners, if you split things correctly according to the powers of 2 rule. What is a smaller sub-list? The list in question does only hold 11k recipients, which is not exactly large. Some off my SVN announce lists are much larger. Stefan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
