Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest formatting--clickable TOC?

[Tanstaafl]

On 9/2/2016 6:39 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> On 09/02/2016 02:00 PM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>>
>> I requested a similar feature a while ago:
>>
>> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2014-December/078192.html
> 
> 
> And my responses at
> 
> and
> 
> still hold. Read the whole thread.

And an even earlier thread that contained a discussion about this
(comments of mine) from December 2009, regarding how Yahoo Digests
provided exactly the behavior you are talking about:

https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg55751.html
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[Mailman-Users] Config dump? - WAS Re: speed up mailman

[Tanstaafl]

On 2/28/2016 1:19 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull  wrote:
> If that doesn't make it obvious what you need to do, you might want to
> tell us something about your configuration and use case.  What version
> of Mailman?  Did you install as a package from a distribution or from
> source?  If from a distribution, which one?

Been meaning to ask...

Would it be difficult to add a command similar to postfix's postconf -n
that would dump the currently used config?

Sure would help with troubleshooting...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] I'd prefer clients had collapsing features, not top-post; do away with mailing list digests

[Tanstaafl]

JB...

It makes 10,000% more sense than doing what you just did (untrimmed
bottom posting).

Your response only serves to provide massive ammunition for those
arguing *against* bottom (inline/interleaved) posting.

Charles

On 4/9/2015 10:49 AM, JB je...@yahoo.com.dmarc.invalid wrote:
 
 
 On Thu, 4/9/15, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] I'd prefer clients had collapsing features, not 
 top-post; do away with mailing list digests
  To: mailman-users@python.org
  Date: Thursday, April 9, 2015, 9:46 AM
  
  On 04/09/2015 12:25 AM,
  Danil Smirnov wrote:
   The solutions is
  quite simple - use top-posting if you answering to
   the very whole message or thread (like
  this).
   It will save your time and would
  annoy nobody.
  
  
  Except those who receive digests or prefer to
  read the archives or
  actually need the
  quoted context to understand what you're talking
  about.
  
  -- 
  Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net 
The highway is for gamblers,
  San
  Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense -
  B. Dylan
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 I do not like top posting.  With TP I have to read backwards through a 
 conversation to understand what is going on.  Makes no sense at all.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] I'd prefer clients had collapsing features, not top-post; do away with mailing list digests

[Tanstaafl]

On 4/9/2015 11:21 AM, Carl Zwanzig c...@tuunq.com wrote:
 On 4/9/2015 8:07 AM, Mike Starr wrote:
 Great example (below) of why I don't like bottom posting

 I'd say it was a much better example of not trimming content and making it 
 presentable; the quoted part could have been cut to 4-5 lines and preserved 
 the context for reply. (And the list footer wasn't needed at all.)

Correct - this is what I meant when I said the vast majority of people
who prefer bottom posting - and refer to it by that name - do NOT mean
'blindly quoting an entire message, signatures, footers and all, and
adding their reply beneath it all'.

To promote such as a reasonable way to interact on mailing lists would
be the height of absurdity.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] What would your dream Mailman web interface look like?

[Tanstaafl]

On 4/6/2015 10:17 PM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote:
 It's not just the popup windows. It's not just the sites that hijack the 
 right-click menu. It's not just the autoplay videos. It's not even the 
 browser crashes! (Mostly Opera, Firefox seems a bit more stable.) Any 
 one of them alone is enough to make Javascript-off-by-default essential, 
 in my opinion. (Thank you Ad-Block!)

Actually, it sounds like NoScript is more what you are looking for (I
use AdBlock too though)...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] I'd prefer clients had collapsing features, not top-post; do away with mailing list digests

[Tanstaafl]

On 4/3/2015 7:55 AM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote:
 On Thu, Apr 02, 2015 at 08:09:12PM -0700, David Benfell wrote:
 with top-posters subject to flaming. But  
 outside that world, I find top-posting to be the norm. I agree with  
 the logic of bottom-posting, because it is--well--logical, but cannot  
 hope to prevail.

 Perhaps you mean interleaved or inline posting, as I've done here?

As I said earlier, this is what 99.999% of all people who say
'bottom-posting' mean, and to say otherwise is either just someone being
pedantic, foolish, ignorant, or (more often imnsho) it is an outright
trollish comment to make themselves feel better about being a lazy
top-poster.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] I'd prefer clients had collapsing features, not top-post; do away with mailing list digests

[Tanstaafl]

Please don't send direct to me, I'm on the list.

On 4/2/2015 3:13 PM, Andrew Stuart andrew.stu...@supercoders.com.au wrote:
 I’d like it if digests could be either the full text of the emails or
 just a list of subject lines.

? Whats wrong with both? Every digest I've ever subscribed to has the
list of email subjects at the top, then the content afterwards...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] I'd prefer clients had collapsing features, not top-post; do away with mailing list digests

[Tanstaafl]

On 4/2/2015 2:18 PM, Mike Starr m...@writestarr.com wrote:
 I'm a top-poster and not ashamed of it. If I'm following a message 
 thread, I remember the discussion and don't want to have to scroll 
 through a weeks worth of responses just to get to the new content.

This would only happen if you blindly quoted the entire message.

Not ONE 'bottom poster' (inline is more correct term) would EVER suggest
doing that, but I do know more than one top-poster who refuses to
acknowledge this, and submits the same tired INVALID argument as a
reason to support their laziness.

 In this response (using Thunderbird), I highlighted the text I wanted to 
 respond to before clicking *Reply List* and Thunderbird only included 
 the highlighted text

Been doing this for many, many years (ever since TB enabled the feature).

 below this response. That puts the pertinent content right below my reply.

When it belongs above it...

But whatever, I stopped caring much a long, long time ago when I
realized top-posters will never get it simply because they don't want to.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] I'd prefer clients had collapsing features, not top-post; do away with mailing list digests

[Tanstaafl]

On 4/2/2015 1:45 PM, J.B. Nicholson-Owens j...@forestfield.org wrote:
 I also think we should stop offering mailing list digests, particularly 
 because I don't see a need for them now that bandwidth to most Internet 
 users is plentiful (plentiful enough to see widespread use of HTML 
 email, for instance) and so many users pick gratis email hosting that 
 imposes no quota on them (to maximize effectiveness of spying on 
 users?). I'd be willing to reconsider my opinion on digests if there 
 were some compelling reason(s) to continue digests. So far all I see in 
 digests are the bad points: digests break threading, replies to digests 
 contain far more quoted material than original material, and top posting 
 makes digests even harder for me to figure out what is being replied to.

Well, liomited bandwidth was never a reason (in my mind) for wanting
digest versions of some email lists...

The main reason I may choose a digest version of a list is if it is
high-volume, and/or I am more of a lurker than participant. In such a
case digests makes the Inbox (or folder if they are filtered to one)
less cluttered.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list

[Tanstaafl]

On 3/19/2015 9:15 PM, Richard Damon rich...@damon-family.org wrote:
 Another reason that I have been told by some people that they want 
 people to top post is that their client will show in the message list a 
 summary of the first line of the message, and they want that to be the 
 new content to see if it is worth reading,

And that is actually one of the few reasonable reasons that I've ever
seen supporting the argument...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list

[Tanstaafl]

On 3/24/2015 10:30 PM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote:
 What Outlook, Hotmail etc. call Rich Text is in fact HTML, not to be 
 confused with Microsoft's interchange Rich Text Format, RTF.

And Outlook's 'HTML' is badly broken due to its reliance on the Word
HTML rendering engine.

Why MS decided to change from IE to Word for the rendering engine is
inexplicable - unless it was a bran-dead attempt to get people who just
buy Outlook to buy the full Office suite (or at least Word too)...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list

[Tanstaafl]

On 3/22/2015 12:14 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
 Nowhere in the visible UI is Smart Reply mentioned, nor is it listed
 in the preferences menu.  This may be a default of the installation
 rather than of of T-bird itself.

If you get into customize mode for that toolbar (right-click on it,
customize), you'll see the name of the button is 'Smart Reply'...

But yeah, it looks like it is placed there by default now.

Now, I just wish the button was made available to the main toolbars too.

A couple of years ago, I had opened a bug requesting a new button with
the exact same name, then a few months after I opened that bug, I found
the one in the message header toolbar (not sure when it was introduced).
I then changed my bug to request that the button be available to all
toolbars, but it didn't go anywhere. The problem was something about the
button icon size changing (it is the last comment)...

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=868961
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Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list

[Tanstaafl]

On 3/20/2015 8:38 PM, Richard Damon rich...@damon-family.org wrote:
 Thunderbird isn't quite like that, but when I reply to a message from 
 the list I am given 3 options:
 
 Reply
 Reply All
 Reply to List

Do you mean that you see a single button with a drop-down that provides
these three choices?

If so, then you are using the 'Smart Reply' button that I described
earlier, that

a) is only available on the preview pane header toolbar, and

b) has to be manually placed there (unless it is now placed there by
default automatically, which it wasn't when it was first introduced).

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Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list

[Tanstaafl]

On 3/20/2015 2:48 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
 On Fri, 2015-03-20 at 14:37 -0400, Tanstaafl wrote:
 No, the point is you apparently can't simply acknowledge that you
 mis-spoke/made a mistake.
 
 Tanstaafl, it it will make you happy, I _officially_ acknowledge that I
 made a mistake/mis-spoke, and I apologize to you, and to anyone else who
 was confused or annoyed by what I said!
 
 I still think you pretty much missed my point.
 
 Can we move on now?

We could have moved on 3 posts ago had you simply said 'oops, yeah, I
misspoke, here's what I meant', instead of trying to justify it somehow.

I even included a winkie in my first comment pointing out you probably
mis-spoke - which, when combined with the rest of the content of my
posts, shows conclusively that I did indeed 'get your point'.

And now you compound the problem by making a grand-standing apology
obviously meant tongue-in-cheek, in that you don't really mean it, but
instead are trying to deflect blame for this ridiculous side-thread back
on me.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list

[Tanstaafl]

On 3/21/2015 12:55 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:
 If I were writing an MUA, I'd make each addressee a button which
 replies to them only.[1] For the explicit reply button, I'd
 automatically put the list-post and author in To:, provide an obvious
 delete button on each (as Gmail does), and provide an add other
 addressees button in Cc:.

Way too complicated for me...

I like the 'Smart Reply' button in Thunderbird (just wish I could put it
on the main toolbar), but I'd make its behavior configurable:

a) Allow the user to set a global default (ie, if List headers are
present, set default to 'Reply To List'), then make this over-ridable
somehow on a sender basis (ie, for certain lists, you could change the
default to the normal 'Reply' (to sender only)), or

b) allow the user to have it automatically show all relevant reply
options simultaneously (ie, side by side, without a drop-down selector),
ie: If List headers are available, show 'Reply' and 'Reply To List'
buttons, if List headers are available and there are multiple
recipients, show all three ('Reply', 'Reply All', and 'Reply To List')

Getting the config options and UI right for this would take a little
thought, but I think it would be doable...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list

[Tanstaafl]

On 3/20/2015 10:03 AM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:
 On 03/20/2015 06:52 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
 On 3/19/2015 6:47 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
 In many mail user agents, when you press the Reply button the program
 will analyze the headers, determine that the post being replied to came
 from a list and offer a Reply to List option in addition to a simple
 reply, which generally goes privately to the original poster.

 I'd really like to know which email user agents really do this.

 Actually, it doesn't work that way in any of the MUAs I know.

Which was my point... ;)

 But many offer a Reply List choice if the message has a List-Post:
 header. Thunderbird is one. Mutt offers an 'L' command to reply to
 the list.

Yep, use CTRL-SHIFT+L all the time on lists - but then get irritated
when someone CC's me individually, because it never fails that it is the
one sent directly that I end of trying to reply to, for which
Reply-To-List doesn't work, so I have to delete it and try again on the
duplicate from the list...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list

[Tanstaafl]

On 3/20/2015 1:29 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:
 I don't know of anybody who prefers bottom-posting (and it's a bad
 idea to use that term as I've seen newbies instructed to bottom-post
 do exactly that, leaving 50 lines of original text and adding two
 lines at the bottom).

And I've seen many people use this exact example of 'bottom or inline
posting' in support of their argument in favor of top-posting, ignoring
arguments about trimming all irrelevant quoted text, implying that
anyone and everyone who supports bottom/inline posting wants you to
quote everything, untrimmed, and put your response below it.

It irks me no end...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list

[Tanstaafl]

On 3/19/2015 6:47 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
 In many mail user agents, when you press the Reply button the program
 will analyze the headers, determine that the post being replied to came
 from a list and offer a Reply to List option in addition to a simple
 reply, which generally goes privately to the original poster.

I'd really like to know which email user agents really do this.

In my experience, none of the ones used by 99+% of the worlds population
actually use do this.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list

[Tanstaafl]

On 3/20/2015 9:58 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote:
 On Mar 20, 2015, at 09:52 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
 
 I'd really like to know which email user agents really do this.

 In my experience, none of the ones used by 99+% of the worlds population
 actually use do this.
 
 I'm sure I'm proudly in the minority, but I use Claws Mail almost exclusively
 and it has very good reply-to-list support.

Sounds like Thunderbird's 'Smart Reply' button, which I really like, but
don't use much because I can't place it on the regular toolbar, it is
only available to the message preview-pane toolbar, and I rarely use those.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list

[Tanstaafl]

On 3/20/2015 10:27 AM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
 My MUA of choice is Evolution, formerly from Ximian but now a gnome GPL
 project.  It has this feature, as does Thunderbird, which is fairly
 popular.  I was under the impression that Outlook and/or Outlook Express
 had it too, but I'm not sure about this.

Ummm... this is not what you said initially.

You said In many mail user agents, when you press the Reply button
the program will analyze the headers, determine that the post being
replied to came from a list and offer a Reply to List option...

The 'Reply-To-List' button in Thunderbird is a completely separate
button. Also, when you click the normal 'Reply' button, it simply
replies, it doesn't 'analyze any headers' or present you with any other
options or choices... same for every other MUA I know of.

So, it sounds like you just sortof misspoke... ;)

Admittedly - the 'Smart Reply' button in Thunderbird *does* actually
actively change behavior depending on whether or not the message has
list headers (and also whether or not there are multiple recipients),
but as I said, I don't get to use it much since I can't put it on the
main toolbar (I do have a bug open for this)...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list

[Tanstaafl]

On 3/20/2015 11:09 AM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote:
 On Fri, 2015-03-20 at 10:49 -0400, Tanstaafl wrote:
 You said In many mail user agents, when you press the Reply button
 the program will analyze the headers, determine that the post being
 replied to came from a list and offer a Reply to List option...

 This is the way Evolution works.

Ok, but my point is, one MUA with a tiny user base is very far from
'many mail user agents'. So, again - looks like you mis-spoke. Not a
crime, I do it sometimes, but it is annoying when someone argues nits
just to avoid simply acknowledging a mistake.

 In T-bird there's a pane with message headers and action buttons below
 the index and above the preview pane.  If a list message is highlighted
 in the index, there's a Reply List button presented right next to the
 Reply button.  If a post isn't a list post, this button is absent.
 This is even simpler than what Evolution does.

The Reply List button is only there if you put it there, unless recent
updates have started putting it there by default (it never was before).

 If T-bird and Evolution are NOT looking at headers and offering an
 appropriate list reply option, then how are they determining when to
 display this button, and when not to?

Again, my point is this doesn't happen *when you click the REPLY button*
- you said (not implied, not hinted, you said it outright) that clicking
'the Reply button' (only the 'normal' Reply button can be inferred in
this context) initiated some kind of testing of the headers to try to
guess what kind of Reply would be most appropriate.

Are you saying that this is indeed what Evolution does? It only has one
'Reply' button  that is similar to Thunderbird 'Smart Reply' button?

 Only superficially.  The point is that both of these MUAs are list-aware
 and offer options appropriately.

No, the point is you apparently can't simply acknowledge that you
mis-spoke/made a mistake.

And in Thunderbird, nothing is 'offered' unless you take some kind of
affirmative action (like adding the 'Reply List' button to the toolbar
and understanding how it works), then, the only thing that happens is
the Reply List button is either available or not, depending on the List
headers (and it doesn't work with all lists either)...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman RSS patch, revised

[Tanstaafl]

On 3/15/2015 2:40 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:
 Hey, if anybody is interested in *using* this patch, speak up
 *now*, because tomoorwr GSoC intern applications open.  I can add this
 to the task list (specifially, port to MM3 and  maintain for MM2
 preetty please).  But I'd like to know how high to prioritize when
 evaluating proposals.

Haven't used it before, but it sounds really interesting.

Also - I'd be highly unlikely to use it if I had to maintain the latch
myself, but would almost certainly use it if it was part of the core
Mailman codebase.
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[Mailman-Users] max_message_size, how do I change behavior (reject, instead of hold for moderation) and/or notification message (when exceeded)

[Tanstaafl]

Hi all,

Ok, I did this a very long time ago, and can't for the life of me
remember where/how I did this...

I have some lists that have a max_size set, and when someone sends an
email that exceeds this size, it gets held for moderation, and the
sender gets a notification of this, but it is a custom one that I wrote
myself.

Now, I'd like to change this behavior - I want to REJECT these messages
- but can't for the life of me figure out how to do this, or at the very
least , change the notification text to inform them that their message
will be discarded, as opposed to 'eventually dealt with'...

Any pointers to tfm would be appreciated...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] max_message_size, how do I change behavior (reject, instead of hold for moderation) and/or notification message (when exceeded)

[Tanstaafl]

On 2/25/2015 10:21 AM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:
 It is possible you just modified the messages in the MessageTooBig class
 definition in Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py. The postheld.txt template is
 also involved in the notice to the user, but it is used for all held
 messages so it seems unlikely you changed that.
 
 You can reject the message rather than holding it, but that would
 require (further) modification to Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py.

Hmmm... ok, looks like I was mistaken, the notification is just the
standard one in Hold.py.

Here is the notification they get:

Your mail to 'List-Name' with the subject

test max_size

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

Message body is too big: 7908354 bytes with a limit of 256 KB

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
this posting, please visit the following URL:

https://lists.example.com:56001/mailman/confirm/List-Name/blahblah



But looking at the Handler, what I'd like for them to get is just the
last notification - see below: Your message was too big; please trim it
to less than %(kb)d KB in size, but without the 'is being held until
the list moderator...' stuff...

It doesn't have to be rejected, I just want the sender to know that they
need to resend a smaller message.

Thanks for any suggestions...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest indexes

[Tanstaafl]

On 12/16/2014 6:40 AM, Andrew Hodgson and...@hodgsonfamily.org wrote:
 I run a high volume list (around 80 messages per day), and we have
 complaints from digest users that the digests are difficult to work
 with. One requested feature is could the digests be in HTML format, and
 a link be presented in the table of contents to go to each message. Can
 this be done in Mailman by working with the digest templates?

See this thread from back in 2010 when I asked for the very same thing,
but in much more detail:

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2010-February/020958.html
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Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple mailing list passwords

[Tanstaafl]

On 5/30/2014 4:42 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:

Tanstaafl writes:

It *does*...



It does??  As you described it, he can let passwordmaker choose his
password.  But he says he can't do that.  Or he can specify the whole
password as the prefix, which is insecure.  And AIUI that's not
acceptable to him either, as far as I can see he's very concerned
about security.  So what's the third option that is both secure and
allows use of the current password?


Entering the password from memory?

This isn't a limitation of passwordmaker or any other password 
program... it is a limitation imposed by the (as far as I understand it, 
but I may be missing something too) use case.


As far as I know there is no program that is capable of reading minds 
and/or intuiting what password should be used based solely on what 
someone knows in their head.


That said, there is actually a more secure option...

passwordmaker has the ability to encrypt the password that is stored, if 
the form allows it, which I'm fairly certain mailman's login forms do - 
let me check - yep...


So, the only other option that I can offer would be to create a custom 
account for the login page in passwordmaker, then add the password 
field, username and password fields to the 'Advanced Auto-Populate' 
fields as described here:


http://www.passwordmaker.org/Firefox/Mozilla/SeaMonkey/Flock/Netscape/Advanced#Advanced_Options:_Advanced_Auto-Populate_Tab


As far as I can see, you're just saying the requirements are stupid.


No, just trying to help is all... :)
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Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple mailing list passwords

[Tanstaafl]

On 5/30/2014 5:03 AM, Peter Shute psh...@nuw.org.au wrote:

Tanstaafl writes:
This isn't very secure, because the password is then stored inside the
.rdf file, but it will work.



So you are correct about it not being secure. How insecure, I don't
know. Is this rdf file encrypted? Do you need a master password to use it?


No, the RDF file itself is not encrypted, however...

The third option I just suggested in my last email does indeed encrypt 
the values stored in the Advanced Auto-Populate tab, when stored in the 
RDF file, and requires the Master Password to decrypt it - and this 
encryption is pretty strong, so is about as secure as can be fo a 
password that is stored on disk...


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Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple mailing list passwords

[Tanstaafl]

On 5/29/2014 4:28 AM, Lucio Chiappetti lu...@lambrate.inaf.it wrote:

On Wed, 28 May 2014, Tanstaafl wrote:


You can create multiple accounts for the same URL with passwordmaker,
so I think you just don';t understand totally how it works.


That's quite possible.

I did not install it, but read the online documentation, and I gathered
that it GENERATES passwords to be used on remote sites, requiring to
CHANGE those currently in use. Did I understand wrong ?


Yes... you can force it to use a previously established password that 
you don't want to change by simply creating an account for the URL, 
setting a password length of the exact length of the current password, 
then entering the password into the prefix field.


This isn't very secure, because the password is then stored inside the 
.rdf file, but it will work.




Well, on one hand I meant that I MUST use the CURRENT passwords for the
remote site, because such password is used by other people too !


Understood now... but at least mailman3 will allow for multiple admin 
users/passwords, which will eliminate this problem.



I guess it is not uncommon that the role of moderator of a mailman
mailing list is shared among different people (often in completely
different countries so that almost all timezones are covered).

On the other hand (and this is mailman specific), the web pages I was
referring to are the mailman list administrator authentication pages.
They are not properly accounts as they contain just a password field
but no username.


In passwordmaker, an 'account' is simple an entry with a specific 
URL/username combination.


Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple mailing list passwords

[Tanstaafl]

On 5/29/2014 1:24 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:

Tanstaafl writes:

You can create multiple accounts for the same URL with passwordmaker, so
I think you just don';t understand totally how it works.



I have no clue what you're talking about.  The OP shares a password
with several other users, and does not have the right to change it, or
to ask others to change their workflows.  You need to explain how
passwordmaker can do its thing for an*existing*  account *and
password*, or it's a non-starter for him.


Chill Stephen. First, I wasn't talking to you, second, no need for the 
attitude.


As for what I'm talking about - I didn't understand what *he* was 
saying, but he cleared it up and I explained how he can indeed use 
passwordmaker to do this.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple mailing list passwords

[Tanstaafl]

On 5/29/2014 2:34 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:

You had two rounds to figure out what he was asking
for, and missed it twice.


No, I didn't miss it, I didn't understand that *he* didn't understand...


Then you tell him he doesn't understand totally how it works. I
really*was* puzzled as to how you could think the system you
described met his requirements.


It *does*... now who is missing what?

;)
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Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple mailing list passwords

[Tanstaafl]

On 5/27/2014 6:11 AM, Lucio Chiappetti lu...@lambrate.inaf.it wrote:

On Mon, 26 May 2014, Tanstaafl wrote:


On 5/26/2014 8:21 AM, Lucio Chiappetti wrote:

Is anybody aware of any firefox add-on which allows to remember multiple
password for one hostname (e.g. based on the full url of the list admin
page) ?


My all time favorite:
www.passwordmaker.org
Doesn't store passwords anywhere (generates the password on the fly



Unfortunately this presupposes the ability to change the remote lsit
admin password, which in my case is fixed since it is shared by various
co-moderators


Sorry, but I have no idea what you meant here.

You can create multiple accounts for the same URL with passwordmaker, so 
I think you just don';t understand totally how it works.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple mailing list passwords

[Tanstaafl]

On 5/26/2014 8:21 AM, Lucio Chiappetti lu...@lambrate.inaf.it wrote:

Is anybody aware of any firefox add-on which allows to remember multiple
password for one hostname (e.g. based on the full url of the list admin
page) ?


My all time favorite:

www.passwordmaker.org

Doesn't store passwords anywhere (generates the password on the fly 
every time based on the detected URL, and other criteria you set when 
you create a specific account)...


I've been using it for many years, and couldn't live without it. I also 
wrote a lot of the wiki text explaining its usage, so can (and am happy 
to) answer any questions abou it.


It isn't perfect, by any stretch, and I have been toying with the idea 
of switching to KeePass, but I really dislike actually storing the 
passwords anywhere...

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Re: [Mailman-Users] problem after changing the server name

[Tanstaafl]

On 2014-01-05 12:05 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:

On 01/05/2014 08:00 AM, Dominique Asselineau wrote:


It seeems the server name is encoded in file
/var/lib/mailman/lists/list-name/config.pck updated by the command
config_list -i config-file-name, but i do not find manner to
modify the server name into those pages. host_name specifies only the
domain in the e-mail adresses.



See the FAQs at http://wiki.list.org/x/gIA9 and
http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9.


Thanks Dominique and Mark - I had completely forgotten about this after 
migrating everything to my new server yesterday.


Mark - the only setting that changed on mine is the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN, 
but I'm guessing I still need to do the full command.


So, before I do something dumb and blindly run the command and possibly 
mess up my lists (that seem to be working fine), I simply cd to the /bin 
directory, and run:


bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url -- [fix_url options]

?

Or do I need to actually specify something for the word 'options'?

Thanks again!

Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] problem after changing the server name

[Tanstaafl]

On 2014-01-05 12:53 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:

Assuming you have only one URL domain and email domain and they are
properly set as DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, what you need
to run after changing DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN is just

bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url

or to see what it's doing

bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url -- -v


Spot on as always, Mark, thx - and yeah, I just have the one domain, so 
it was easy peasy... took all of what, .5 seconds? :)

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[Mailman-Users] Mailman Admin pages repeatedly asking for password after server migration

[Tanstaafl]

Hello,

I have googled, and can't seem to find the exact answer to this question.

Cookies are enabled (I use the same browser to access the mailman admin 
pages on the old server and those don't do this)...


Would someone please point me to the FAQ page for how to resolve this 
(I'm sure it is easy, I just haven't been able to figure it out).


This was the last test on my checklist before I pull the trigger and do 
the last rsync of the emails before changing all of the DNS pointers to 
point to the new server.


Thanks

Charles
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[Mailman-Users] SOLVED: Re: Mailman Admin pages repeatedly asking for password after server migration

[Tanstaafl]

On 2014-01-04 8:58 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:

I have googled, and can't seem to find the exact answer to this question.

Cookies are enabled (I use the same browser to access the mailman admin
pages on the old server and those don't do this)...

Would someone please point me to the FAQ page for how to resolve this
(I'm sure it is easy, I just haven't been able to figure it out).

This was the last test on my checklist before I pull the trigger and do
the last rsync of the emails before changing all of the DNS pointers to
point to the new server.


Never mind, was a DNS issue (testing, faking DNS entries, etc)...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] members of my group not being able to send messages

[Tanstaafl]

On 2014-01-02 3:09 AM, Adrien Collins adriencollins22...@gmail.com wrote:

I run a small friendly group, a couple of members are using
the same isp, they are having problems sending messages to
the group on mailman and also receiving messages from the
group, not sure what I can do about this? Any suggestions
please? Not everyone is tech savi so explaining some issues
is a bit difficult. I understand but trying to tell others
the same things may be difficult,


Well, you didn't really provide enough information for anyone to even 
hazard a WAG...


'It doesn't work' simply isn't enough.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] unable to start Mailman

[Tanstaafl]

(Sorry for replying to an older thread, I'm going back through older 
unread mails)


Maybe these should be made an official part of mailman's extra tools?

And maybe updated to work with MM3?

On 2013-11-05 2:46 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmouse-mail...@fmp.com wrote:

On Tue, 2013-11-05 at 13:14 -0600, c cc wrote:

Mark,

It seems like /etc/init.d/mailman and /etc/rc.d/mailman both are runing
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl, as you can you below:

MAILMANHOME=/usr/lib/mailman
MAILMANCTL=$MAILMANHOME/bin/mailmanctl

Here how I moved my lists over to the new server:


FWIW, here are the two scripts I use to move Mailman accounts, with
their archives, from one computer to another.  I've never had a single
problem when using them and have moved a lot of lists with them.

The first script creates an gzip archive of the list in /tmp, plus a
marker file indicating whether or not the list's posting archive is
public or private.  It's called /usr/local/sbin/tar_list.sh and gets run
by root to tar up the list's files.

 #!/bin/sh
 if [ $1 =  ]; then
echo 'Usage: tar_list.sh listname'
exit
 fi

 if [ ! -e /var/lib/mailman/lists/$1 ]; then
echo $1: No such list!
exit
 fi

 mkdir /tmp/$1
 cd /var/lib/mailman/lists/

 echo Creating $1_list.tar.gz 
 tar -czvf $1_list.tar.gz $1
 mv $1_list.tar.gz /tmp/$1

 cd /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/

 echo Creating $1_archive.tar.gz 
 tar -czvf $1_archive.tar.gz $1
 mv  $1_archive.tar.gz /tmp/$1

 echo Creating $1_archive_mbox.tar.gz 
 tar -czvf $1_archive_mbox.tar.gz $1.mbox
 mv $1_archive_mbox.tar.gz /tmp/$1

 if [ -L /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/$1 ]; then
touch /tmp/$1/$1_archive_is_public
 fi

The second script lives in ~mailman/bin on the receiving system and is
called untar_list.sh.  It gets run by the mailman user, which must have
a login shell, even if only temporarily.  If you don't have the root
password on the remote system, or if ssh is forbidden for root, then
change the account name to that of an unprivileged user on line 8 and 9.

 #!/bin/sh
 if [ $2 =  ]; then
 echo 'Usage: untar_list.sh server listname'
 exit
 fi

 cd ~/tmp/
 echo Give root password on remote system ...
 scp root@$1:/tmp/$2/* .
 cd /var/lib/mailman/lists/

 echo 
 echo Creating list $2 ...
 tar -xzvpf ~/tmp/$2_list.tar.gz

 cd /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/

 echo 
 echo Creating archive for $2 ...
 tar -xzvpf ~/tmp/$2_archive.tar.gz

 echo Creating archive mbox for $1 ...
 tar -xzvpf ~/tmp/$2_archive_mbox.tar.gz

 if [ -e ~/tmp/$2_archive_is_public ]; then
ln
 -s /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/$2 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/$2
 fi

 echo
 echo If no errors, delete files in ~/tmp and delete /tmp/$2
 directory on remote system





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Re: [Mailman-Users] unable to start Mailman

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-11-20 10:08 AM, Lindsay Haisley fmouse-mail...@fmp.com wrote:

On Wed, 2013-11-20 at 14:01 +0100, Roel Wagenaar wrote:

And maybe you could stop TOP-posting?


In my humble opinion, any post that's less that a visual page in length
is more conveniently read if it's top-posted, especially if it is in
reference to a much longer quoted post.  I know it's considered bad list
netiquette, but from a practical point of view, I consider it the more
convenient format.

Ultimately, it's the responsibility of the list moderator to decide
these things.

With humility and deep respect for everyone 


I wasn't going to dignify his loud and rude yammering with a response.

Normally I do bottom/inline post, but sometimes a top-post just makes 
more sense...


Anyway, sorry for being the cause of unnecessary noise...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hello all - mailman down after power failure and hard shutdown

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-06-08 7:13 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:

So, the doesn't occur with a single message to a single list, but it
occurs when Postfix receives six messages at once FROM the lists-all
list. Also your deliveries to to=validus...@media-brokers.com et al
are via the virtual transport which is apparently unaffected.


Hmm, so when a list only contains other lists as members, those will use 
postfix's local transport, but when the members are individuals (for 
final delivery), it uses virtual. Ok, that makes sense then.



Also the weirdness when a list member has their vacation enabled - they
get the original list message, but the vacation message gets stuck in
the queue with the error.



Another case of multiple messages to be handled by the local transport.


Ok, yeah, I think you've nailed it... the problem is when more than one 
message at a time is passed to postfix/local...



I'm thinking of trying to reinstalling (this is gentoo, so that will be
easy) first mailman, then postfix... I'll probably try that tomorrow if
no other solution presents itself.



If you reinstall Mailman without touching Postfix and that fixes this,
I'll be incredibly surprised.


I think you're right, I'll do postfix first.


All the evidence you've presented together with everything I know says
this is a Postfix issue, not a Mailman issue. If I knew Postfix as well
as I know Mailman, I could probably tell you how to fix this.


Wish I did... I did get a comment from Victor on the postfix list to 
check all of my aliases, so I ran newaliases but that didn't help. Is 
there anything else I can do to test the mailman aliases? Since the 
individual lists work - confirmed because I sent the mass email I've 
been trying to send since this happened to each individual list that is 
a member of the lists-all list, and those all worked fine.


I agree with you that this seems to be a postfix problem, but is it 
possible that some kind of corruption in a userb could cause these 
warnings? To recap, they are:


The first one from postfix/master only shows up rarely - 11 times since 
I got the system back up, and within 5 or 10 minutes (but usually with 5 
or 10 seconds) of postfix being restarted:


postfix/master[6406]: warning: master_wakeup_timer_event: service 
tlsmgr(private/tlsmgr): Resource temporarily unavailable


Then these (only when I try to send to my lists-all list):

warning: connect to transport private/local: Resource temporarily 
unavailable
warning: connect to transport private/retry: Resource temporarily 
unavailable


I do have backups of my mysql userdb, as well as all others (mailman 
aliases/dbs, etc), so I can replace any of these from backups if it will 
fix the problem.


Thanks again for your time and help Mark...

Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hello all - mailman down after power failure and hard shutdown

[Tanstaafl]

Thanks for trying, but mailman is running fine.

Lists that have only real email addresses work fine.

Also, individual messages invoking postfix/local also work fine, (ie, 
emails sent from cron (8 from last night and this morning), etc)...


Mark has helped me narrow the problem down to whenever multiple messages 
are submitted to postfix/local simultaneously.


On 2013-06-08 2:20 PM, Richard Shetron gue...@sgeinc.com wrote:

I'd suggest trying ps -auxww|grep mailman to seem if any mailman
processes are running, this assumes mailman runs as its own user id.
Some installs use the username list or lists instead of mailman.

If nothing show up then I'd check:

1)  /etc/postfix/*.cf and /etc/postfix/transport and diff them with an
older copy to make sure they haven't changed.

2)  check /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir
 The actual location may depend on your version and installation
options.
 If mailman is NOT running then the cur subdir should be empty.
 I've found mailman will not restart if there is anything in the
directory cur.  I'd check the files, if any, in both new and cur and tmp
just to see what's there.


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[Mailman-Users] SOLVED - Re: Hello all - mailman down after power failure and hard shutdown

[Tanstaafl]

Ok, facepalm time...

I had forgotten that I had built a new kernel a few weeks ago, and 
changed it to the default - but hadn't properly tested it yet.


Reverting to the previous kernel resolved the problem.

I'm not sure what the heck I changed to cause this, but that'll sure 
tech me to never change the kernel boot default without proper testing.


Anyway, thanks for the assist and sorry for the noise.

Charles

On 2013-06-09 10:33 AM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:

On 06/09/2013 05:49 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:


Wish I did... I did get a comment from Victor on the postfix list to
check all of my aliases, so I ran newaliases but that didn't help. Is
there anything else I can do to test the mailman aliases?



I thought about aliases, but aliases are only consulted by the local
transport, and the issue is in passing the message to the local
transport (and also the retry transport and the vacation transport).
Thus, I don't think aliases could be involved.

However, if aliases were involved, the thing to run is Mailman's
bin/genaliases, but we know aliases are not the problem, both from the
above and the fact that the lists all work 'one at a time'

There is definitely some resource contention issue when Postfix is
trying to access the same socket for multiple messages.



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[Mailman-Users] Hello all - mailman down after power failure and hard shutdown

[Tanstaafl]

Hello,

Ok, we had a power failure, and apparently my UPS thought it had more 
time left than it did, as the UPS shut down before it shut down the system.


Everything is back up and running, and postfix is running fine for all 
other mail, except list/mailman mail.


I'm getting the following error when trying to send an email to one of 
the lists:


2013-06-08T06:30:47-04:00 myhost postfix/postsuper[29691]: Requeued: 1 
message
2013-06-08T06:31:12-04:00 myhost postfix/pickup[3124]: D55D7B7D175: 
uid=207 from=valid-l...@media-brokers.com orig_id=45BF8B7B393
2013-06-08T06:31:12-04:00 myhost postfix/cleanup[29631]: D55D7B7D175: 
message-id=51b30786.7020...@media-brokers.com
2013-06-08T06:31:12-04:00 myhost postfix/qmgr[3126]: D55D7B7D175: 
from=valid-list-boun...@media-brokers.com, size=4065, nrcpt=6 (queue 
active)
2013-06-08T06:31:12-04:00 myhost postfix/qmgr[3126]: warning: connect to 
transport private/local: Resource temporarily unavailable
2013-06-08T06:31:12-04:00 myhost postfix/qmgr[3126]: warning: connect to 
transport private/retry: Resource temporarily unavailable


I've run check_perms and it says 'No problems found'...

Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,

charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hello all - mailman down after power failure and hard shutdown

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-06-08 8:10 AM, Larry Kuenning la...@qhpress.org wrote:

Is mailman possibly not running?  Try this:
ps -A | grep mailmanctl

If that gives blank output, try this:
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start


Not blank - but what does the question mark mean?

# ps -A | grep mailmanctl
 2600 ?00:00:00 mailmanctl


(This was the solution for me when I had a similar problem a month and a
half ago.  I would like to know where to plug this in so it happens
automatically on reboot.  That should be an elementary question but I'm
still not familiar with all these sysadmin tasks.)


I've tried restarting mailman (appears to work), and even tried rebooting...

Thanks for the assist - any other ideas?

Note: I think this is related to the three postfix errors I posted 
regarding a problem with the local transport - but I've googled and 
can't find a solution for that either...


I only posted two of these here:

2013-06-08T06:31:12-04:00 myhost postfix/qmgr[3126]: warning: connect to 
transport private/local: Resource temporarily unavailable
2013-06-08T06:31:12-04:00 myhost postfix/qmgr[3126]: warning: connect to 
transport private/retry: Resource temporarily unavailable


The third, which I don't see every time, is:

postfix/master[29913]: warning: master_wakeup_timer_event: service 
tlsmgr(private/tlsmgr): Resource temporarily unavailable

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hello all - mailman down after power failure and hard shutdown

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-06-08 1:58 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:

Actually, private/local and private/retry refer to the sockets used for
communication between the Postfix master and the various daemons. If you
do 'netstat -l' you should see these and many others 'LISTENING', Do you?


Yep, they're all there. And local is working - at least sometimes (see 
below) :(



I don't know why a reboot or even just a stop and start of Postfix
doesn't fix this. If you stop and start Postfix, are there any messages
in the mail logs beyond the postfix/master[]: daemon started ...
message?


Nothing more than the three warnings I already posted, two of which you 
see below, and the third being:



2013-06-08T13:10:19-04:00 myhost postfix/master[4076]: warning: 
master_wakeup_timer_event: service tlsmgr(private/tlsmgr): Resource temporarily 
unavailable


But, I have more details after some testing...

First, mailman is definitely working. I tested sending to one of my test 
lists with just two people on it, and it works fine:



2013-06-08T16:28:31-04:00 myhost postfix/qmgr[4078]: 88BA3831DC: 
from=cmar...@media-brokers.com, size=743, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
2013-06-08T16:28:31-04:00 myhost postfix-587/smtpd[5878]: disconnect from 
client.atl.media-brokers.com[192.168.1.110]
2013-06-08T16:28:31-04:00 myhost postfix/local[5884]: 88BA3831DC: 
to=test-l...@smtp.media-brokers.com, orig_to=test-l...@media-brokers.com, 
relay=local, delay=0.31, delays=0.08/0/0/0.23, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to 
command: /usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post test-list)
2013-06-08T16:28:31-04:00 myhost postfix/qmgr[4078]: 88BA3831DC: removed
2013-06-08T16:28:32-04:00 myhost dovecot: imap(cmar...@media-brokers.com): 
Connection closed in=1013 out=1725269
2013-06-08T16:28:32-04:00 myhost dovecot: imap-login: Login: 
user=cmar...@media-brokers.com, method=PLAIN, rip=192.168.1.110, lport=993, 
mpid=5900, TLS, session=T7IhZKreIgDAqAFu
2013-06-08T16:28:33-04:00 myhost postfix-25/smtpd[5887]: connect from 
myhost.media-brokers.com[127.0.0.1]
2013-06-08T16:28:33-04:00 myhost postfix-25/smtpd[5887]: 668EA831DC: 
client=myhost.media-brokers.com[127.0.0.1]
2013-06-08T16:28:33-04:00 myhost postfix/cleanup[5883]: 668EA831DC: 
message-id=51b393ef.2010...@media-brokers.com
2013-06-08T16:28:33-04:00 myhost postfix/qmgr[4078]: 668EA831DC: 
from=test-list-boun...@media-brokers.com, size=1269, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
2013-06-08T16:28:33-04:00 myhost postfix-25/smtpd[5887]: 77983189530: 
client=myhost.media-brokers.com[127.0.0.1]
2013-06-08T16:28:33-04:00 myhost postfix/cleanup[5883]: 77983189530: 
message-id=51b393ef.2010...@media-brokers.com
2013-06-08T16:28:33-04:00 myhost postfix/qmgr[4078]: 77983189530: 
from=test-list-boun...@media-brokers.com, size=1271, nrcpt=2 (queue active)
2013-06-08T16:28:33-04:00 myhost postfix-25/smtpd[5887]: disconnect from 
myhost.media-brokers.com[127.0.0.1]
2013-06-08T16:28:33-04:00 myhost postfix/virtual[5889]: 77983189530: 
to=recipi...@media-brokers.com, relay=virtual, delay=0.2, 
delays=0.05/0/0/0.15, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to maildir)
2013-06-08T16:28:33-04:00 myhost postfix/pipe[5890]: 77983189530: 
to=recipient#media-brokers@autoreply.media-brokers.com, 
orig_to=recipi...@media-brokers.com, relay=vacation, delay=0.4, 
delays=0.05/0/0/0.35, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered via vacation service)
2013-06-08T16:28:33-04:00 myhost postfix/qmgr[4078]: 77983189530: removed
2013-06-08T16:28:35-04:00 myhost postfix/smtp[5888]: 668EA831DC: 
to=recipi...@example.org, relay=filtered.maildistiller.com[176.31.241.80]:25, 
delay=1.8, delays=0.07/0/0.62/1.1, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 
0F38F157)
2013-06-08T16:28:35-04:00 myhost postfix/qmgr[4078]: 668EA831DC: removed


I tested with another list that has 6 people on it, two of whom have 
their vacation message enabled (I use postfixadmin vacation), and while 
all 6 recipients got the message, there were two messages that got stuck 
in the queue that are related to the vacation message:



2013-06-08T16:36:50-04:00 myhost postfix/qmgr[4078]: 4F86719D832: 
from=cmar...@media-brokers.com, size=935, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
2013-06-08T16:36:50-04:00 myhost postfix-587/smtpd[5968]: disconnect from 
client.atl.media-brokers.com[192.168.1.110]
2013-06-08T16:36:50-04:00 myhost postfix/local[5970]: 4F86719D832: 
to=test-li...@smtp.media-brokers.com, orig_to=test-li...@media-brokers.com, 
relay=local, delay=0.28, delays=0.09/0.01/0/0.18, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to 
command: /usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post test-list2)
2013-06-08T16:36:50-04:00 myhost postfix/qmgr[4078]: 4F86719D832: removed
2013-06-08T16:36:52-04:00 myhost postfix-25/smtpd[5973]: connect from 
myhost.media-brokers.com[127.0.0.1]
2013-06-08T16:36:52-04:00 myhost postfix-25/smtpd[5973]: 22FAC19D832: 
client=myhost.media-brokers.com[127.0.0.1]
2013-06-08T16:36:52-04:00 myhost postfix/cleanup[5969]: 22FAC19D832: 
message-id=51b395e2.7070...@media-brokers.com

Re: [Mailman-Users] Hello all - mailman down after power failure and hard shutdown

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-06-08 5:44 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:

On 06/08/2013 02:21 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:


It also seems to be something to do with how many recipients are
involved. One or two appear to be ok, but more than that and it gets
iffy...



I think that's a coincidence. The biggest problem is with delivery from
Postfix to Mailman, at which point nothing knows how many list members
there are or how many messages Mailman will send.


Appreciate any more thoughts on this weirdness, because I'm stumped


See this
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/postfix-users/message/245375,
particularly the replies from Wietse.


I read them all, and I don't think it is relevant (this is the same 
kernel and same versions of postfix dovecot and mailman for some time 
now), but, I changed the default limit to 10 and reloaded postfix, with 
the same error when sending to my 'All' list (that has only 6 members, 
all lists).


Also, as I said, lists that only have individual recipients work just 
fine, even with 30+ recipients.


Also the weirdness when a list member has their vacation enabled - they 
get the original list message, but the vacation message gets stuck in 
the queue with the error.


I'm thinking of trying to reinstalling (this is gentoo, so that will be 
easy) first mailman, then postfix... I'll probably try that tomorrow if 
no other solution presents itself.


Thanks for your help, Mark, much appreciated...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman 2.1 not plushack aware?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-06-01 1:40 PM, Bill Cole wrote:

It is altogether always wrong for ANY mail software outside of a domain
to parse the local part of an address in that domain except for a tiny
handful of standard special local parts (e.g. postmaster).


On it's own, I agree.


The use of '+' as a tag delimiter is widespread but it is not in any
sense a standard and comes nowhere near universality. There is no
way for a Mailman instance to know which domains make user+tag and
user equivalent and which do not, so canonicalizing as you suggest
would result in breakage.


Currently factually and technically correct, But...

There is no reason that Mailman couldn't be enhanced with a configurable 
*option* that would allow the domain Admin to *tell* it which 
character(s) (there was recent talk on the postfix list of postfix being 
enhanced to allow multiple characters to be defined as this delimiter) 
were to be used as delimiters.


I would love to see this ability in MM3...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman 2.1 not plushack aware?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-06-02 2:45 PM, Bill Cole 
mailmanu-20100...@billmail.scconsult.com wrote:

Beyond a few formally standardized cases, assuming equivalency between
different address local parts in a foreign domain is wrong in principle
and bad in practice.


You (and Mark) are correct of course.

I only use Mailman for our local lists for our domain, where members are 
only our own users, so was thinking only in that context, which, of 
course, was wrong.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Probably obvious, but...

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-03-12 6:31 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:

Tanstaafl wrote

On 2013-03-12 12:40 PM, Ryan Staselrsta...@uoregon.edu  wrote:


Is there a good way to say posts by non-members should redirect/bounce to the 
ticketing system email?



Sounds like a job for your MTA, not Mailman...?



Except the MTA doesn't know whether or not the post is from a list
member.


Ooops... duh... sorry for the noise... ;)
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Probably obvious, but...

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-03-12 12:40 PM, Ryan Stasel rsta...@uoregon.edu wrote:

This is probably obvious, but I thought I'd shoot the list an email and ask.

Is there a way to redirect emails to a list from non-members to another email 
address?

Basically, I have a list of our IT group that we use internally to send each other 
things, then we have a trouble ticket queue that everyone else should use. Alas, over the 
years, our internal list email has gotten out. Is there a good way to say posts by 
non-members should redirect/bounce to the ticketing system email?


Sounds like a job for your MTA, not Mailman...?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] white listing

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-02-20 3:18 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:

On 2/19/2013 5:06 AM, Máire Jones wrote:

Is it possible to configure accept_non_members so that ANY address from
@domain can be added without having to specify each address separately?



Put

^.*@domain

or, e.g.

^.*[@.]example\.com$

to accept any address in example.com or a sub-domain thereof in
accept_these_non-members. Entries that begin with ^ are regular
expression matches as mentioned in the (Details for
accept_these_nonmembers) help.


But it would still be much better to create a 'whitelist' and add 
specific addresses to it and use that...


Blindly accepting all addresses to a domain is bad in the same way that 
catchall accounts are bad... at least imho...

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[Mailman-Users] SMTP_MAX_RCPTS setting

[Tanstaafl]

Hi all,

I'm looking to add some rate limiting to my postfix, but need to know 
how postfix's smtpd_recipient_limit interacts with mailman...


After thinking about this, I just don't really see any rational reason 
that normal users should be sending to 100 recipients at one time. If 
they need a list, they can ask me to set one up for them.


So, my understanding is that if I send an email to one of my lists, and 
it has 50 people who are at the same destination domain (ie 
'example.com'), then mailman will generate a single message with 50 
recipients to this one domain (and separate messages for other domains) 
- is this correct?


If so, and if I reduce postfix's smtpd_recipient_limit to, say, 20, then 
I would also need to set SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to to 20 (or something lower 
maybe?), correct?


Thanks
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Re: [Mailman-Users] OT - Regex help (was: Re: About Spam Filtering

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-02-15 10:25 AM, Joseph Brennan bren...@columbia.edu wrote:


elsif
(/^from:.*+(bounce|do-not-reply|facebook|linkedin|list-|myspace|twitter)/i)
{ $logger-debug(Multi-string From header matching $1: $2 found;
exiting); exit (0); }


Examine the logic of the 'if' and any 'elsif' above this line.

I am uncertain what /.*+/ would do. Remove either * or +.


Thanks for the help Joseph (and Stephen)...

This 'if' block is just a bunch of separate one line tests that, if any 
of them match, result in the vacation response not being sent, so it 
doesn't really matter what is above them (they are all the defaults, 
this is the only line I am modifying)...


This line should simply examine any from header, and if any of the 
included strings are found *anywhere* in the from address, local or 
domain part, so, either side of the '@' sign, and regardless of any dots 
anywhere in the string.


I imagine that is why the guys from postfixadmin used the * and maybe 
the +? Like I said, I've got no experience with regex at all - guess its 
time to learn eh? ;)


Anyway, I want the regex such that any/all of the following from 
addresses would match (along with all of the other strings):


bounce-anyth...@example.com
anyth...@bounce.example.com
anyth...@bounce-reply.example.com
faceb...@example.com
anything.faceb...@example.com
anything-faceb...@example.com
anyth...@something.facebook.com

Hopefully that is enough examples...

Basically, if *any* of the strings I might specify inside the 
parenthesis match individually anywhere in the from address, then don't 
send the response (ie, positive match).


Thanks again, it is really appreciated...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] OT - Regex help (was: Re: About Spam Filtering

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-02-16 9:54 AM, Joseph Brennan bren...@columbia.edu wrote:

This 'if' block is just a bunch of separate one line tests that, if any
of them match, result in the vacation response not being sent, so it
doesn't really matter what is above them (they are all the defaults, this
is the only line I am modifying)...


Not exactly. If you chain them with elsif then the conditions are tested
in order until one matches, and any after that are not tested. If one of
the earlier conditions matched then your rule would never match.


Correct... what I meant was, if one of the prior tests match, then the 
vacation message will NOT be sent, so my test is irrelevant, since it 
only has the potential to do the same thing (prevent the message from 
being generated).


None of these tests are used to send the message, only prevent it from 
being sent...



Remove the + mark (and learn what .* means) and you're probably done.


Done... hopefully this will fix things up... thanks again!


In the debug statement, $1 will be the string in ( ) that matched, but
$2 is not defined since there is no other ( ) string.


Ok, fixed that too...

Thanks again! If this works as expected I should be able to get the 
postfixadmin guys to add this to the default vacation.pl, with a 
description of how to use it...

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[Mailman-Users] OT - Regex help (was: Re: About Spam Filtering

[Tanstaafl]

Hello,

Apologies for the OT post, but I've been struggling with a regex for a 
long time, trying to get it to work with my postfixadmin vacation.pl, 
and for the life of me, I can't seem to get it right. I've asked 
numerous times on the postfixadmin list, but no one there has been able 
to help.


If this is too OT or no one can help, that is ok, but I just thought 
maybe someone here might be able to see why this line isn't working...


Here is the line with the regex in it:


elsif (/^from:.*+(bounce|do-not-reply|facebook|linkedin|list-|myspace|twitter)/i) { 
$logger-debug(Multi-string From header matching $1: $2 found; exiting); exit 
(0); }


What I want is for it to match any 'From' header that contains any one 
of the strings in it (ie, bounce, do-not-reply, etc). We get a lot of 
list related stuff that the vacation.pl responds to that I don't want it 
to respond to, so I want a one-liner that I can manually add these 
strings too whenever I see one go out that shouldn't, so we don't 
respond to things that shouldn't be responded to.


Does anything jump out at you as to why it isn't catching anything?

Thanks in advance (to Mark or anyone who might be able to help)...


On 2013-02-12 1:37 AM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: METU 
E-List Admin wrote:


 
 $ bin/config_list -o - REGISTER | grep -A20 header_filter_rules
 header_filter_rules = [('^X-Mailer: (?!Microsoft Outlook .*)$', 7,


 This regexp won't work. The negative lookahead does not advance the
 current position so your regexp says look for 'X-Mailer: ' at the
 beginning of the line not followed by 'Microsoft Outlook .*' but
 followed immediately by the end of the line, so it will only match a
 header like 'X-Mailer: ' not followed by anything.

 What you want is

 ^X-Mailer: (?!Microsoft Outlook .*).*$

 or just

 ^X-Mailer: (?!Microsoft Outlook .*)

 or maybe even just

 ^X-Mailer: (?!Microsoft Outlook )


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Re: [Mailman-Users] OT - Regex help (was: Re: About Spam Filtering

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-02-15 9:41 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:

We get a lot of list related stuff that the vacation.pl responds to that
I don't want it to respond to,


To clarify - by 'list-related', I mean announce/newsletter type junk 
that our users subscribe to, not necessarily mailman list posts...


Also, I want not respond to *any* social networking messages at all, I 
just want a single custom line that I can add any string that I want to 
test for.


I would never use anything like this to reject or otherwise interfere 
with *receiving* mail, but I have a much lower bar when it comes to 
stuff I don't want my vacation.pl to reply to, so false positives are 
not a real concern for me here.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Attachment with welcome message

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-02-12 3:00 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:

Carl Zwanzig wrote:


That was my first thought. Put all the info in the main message (and make
sure there's a readable text/plain part, too).



Absolutely! (There's way too much attaching of word processing
documents and PDFs where simple plain text will do).


Not to mention the fact that someone who neglects to read the email body 
is even more likely to ignore an attachment...

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Google Message Security (or similar) with Mailman

[Tanstaafl]

On 2012-12-07 5:52 PM, Kirke Johnson kjohn...@pcc.edu wrote:

We have been using GMS since we migrated user accounts to Gmail. Our
relationship between Postini and Mailman is kind of ugly due to that
migration.


Fyi... we have been using postini (hate it, lots of false positives, and 
lots of obvious spam slipping through), and we were told months ago by 
our reseller that Google is discontinuing postini service.


Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Non-member posting to the list

[Tanstaafl]

On 2012-11-13 1:52 AM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:

If I knew how to tell if a header was spoofed, I could do that, but I
don't know how to tell; do you?


Maybe an alternative would be an option that for every message posted to 
the list, a confirmation email is sent to the members email address, 
that they then have to click a link to 'approve' sending the message, 
just like how subscribes/unsubscribes have to confirmed.


Maybe this could even be extended with some kind of way of cahing the 
source IP of approved messages, so when messages come in with the same 
sender and from the same IP that has already been approved, those 
messages go straight through without requiring confirmation?


Not a good option for really high volume lists with lots of members, but 
for smaller orgs, maybe a viable option?


Just thinking out loud, because this has definitely been a problem on 
our end (I've even had to set the emergency moderation bit a few times 
until these idiots stopped spamming the list).


I also just noticed the option under the Privacy  Spam controls in the 
GUI under 'Legacy anti-spam filters' where I can enter the listname 
itself, to prevent anyone sending spoofed messages from the list to the 
list.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] A simple unsubscribe

[Tanstaafl]

On 2012-07-28 12:38 PM, William Yardley mail...@veggiechinese.net wrote:

Even if it's not primarily intended for that purpose, Mailman is used
extensively as (and can be configured as) an announcement list, vs. a
traditional discussion list. In that context (where none of the members
can post, or learn the email address of other members, and therefore
won't accidentally post their unsub link to the list), it makes sense to
have a one-click unsubscribe. While you might maliciously try to
unsubscribe someone you don't like on a discussion list, there are good
policy or legal reasons in certain cases to make *subscription*
difficult, and *unsubscription* easy.


And as long as a 'Goodbye' message was mailed to the former subscriber, 
they would at least know they were unsubscribed... and if this happens 
and the former subscriber resubscribes, some kind of time based security 
measure could be used to prevent anyone from being one-click 
unsubscribed more than x times per [week][month][quarter][year][whatever]...

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting field focus on admin login page

[Tanstaafl]

On 2012-06-26 5:24 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:

Tanstaafl wrote:


What code can I add - and where - to set the cursor focus to the
password field on any/all of the list's admin login page so I don't have
to click into it before entering the password?



Just install Mailman 2.1.15 (see
https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/266054).


Ah, cool, thanks Mark - hopefully the gentoo ebuild will be updated soon...
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[Mailman-Users] Setting field focus on admin login page

[Tanstaafl]

Hi all,

A minor little niggle that has bugged me for a very long time but never 
enough to bother you guys with it until now...


I know there must be a way to do this, but my js foo is basically 
non-existant...


What code can I add - and where - to set the cursor focus to the 
password field on any/all of the list's admin login page so I don't have 
to click into it before entering the password?


Thanks...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL redacts user addresses even with VERP and full personalization enabled

[Tanstaafl]

On 2012-06-18 12:22 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmouse-mail...@fmp.com wrote:

Doing this as a custom hack helps.  If this were implemented as a
Mailman standard option then word might indeed get back to them about
it.  Using Resent-Message-ID as a header name is a clever idea.


I'd also argue that since this is not AOL specific but is a generic way 
for a mail system admin to control his own server, and AOL cannot 
dictate what you add to your own headers on your own messages, why not 
make it part of mailman official, with appropriate warnings about some 
brain-dead (probably unenforcable and possibly even illegal) limitations 
by certain clueless providers?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] more questions about Yahoo feedback loop and abuse complaints

[Tanstaafl]

On 2012-06-16 3:54 PM, Ralf Hildebrandt ralf.hildebra...@charite.de wrote:

* Terry Earleyte...@fiteyes.com:

Maybe VERP is the best solution for AOL and her evil step-sisters if you
can stand the overhead?



Yep.


Is it possible to enable VERP *only* for certain domains (like AOL, 
Yahoo, etc)?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] looking for correct doc for configure

[Tanstaafl]

On 2012-06-03 3:16 PM, Larry Stone lston...@stonejongleux.com wrote:

On Jun 3, 2012, at 1:09 AM, H wrote:

Pretty new to Mailman, trying to install it and looking for the
correct documentation to go with mailman-3.0.0b1



MHO, if you're new to Mailman, you should not be looking at 3.0 yet.
3.0.0b1 is the first beta release of the largely re-architected
Mailman 3. Stick to the latest Mailman 2.1 production release
(2.1.14) which is well documented, debugged, and supported.


Besides, if you *are* going to try to install/test the 3.0betas, at 
least use the dev list when reporting problems - the users list is for 
the current/stable versions...

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Re: [Mailman-Users] The sender needs to receive email sent to mailing list...

[Tanstaafl]

On 2012-05-23 9:43 AM, Guilherme Cunha guilhermemunizdacu...@gmail.com 
wrote:

Hi

The sender needs to receive email sent to mailing list...


How can I do this?


Mark already answered you yesterday, spamming this list with multiple 
duplicate questions won't change the answer.


If you are using gmail, you will NEVER get your own messages - this is a 
GMail issue, nothing to do with mailman.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Newer postfix: unused parameter:mailman_destination_recipient_limit=1

[Tanstaafl]

On 2012-03-10 1:10 AM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:

Larry Stone wrote:

On Fri, 9 Mar 2012, Tanstaafl wrote:

Anyone have any idea why? Am I indeed not using it? I'd rather not just
comment it out and test without some confirmation first, since this is a
production box.



transport_destination_recipient_limit is a Postfix parameter that is
specific to the named transport. If you don't have a transport named
mailman, then mailman_transport_destination_recipient is indeed unused.



And in case you're wondering why this may have gotten put there, if you
are using (the officially unsupported) postfix_to_mailman.py as a
'mailman' transport, that transport doesn't handle a single message
with more than one list recipient (i.e. a post addressed to multiple
lists) unless it is delivered to the transport separately for each
list. Thus the requirement in that case for
mailman_destination_recipient_limit=1.


Perfect, thanks Larry and Mark - commented it out and everything's still 
working fine...


Charles
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[Mailman-Users] Newer postfix: unused parameter: mailman_destination_recipient_limit=1

[Tanstaafl]

Hi all,

I've had this parameter defined in my postfix ever since it was first 
set up (not by me), and most everything I read online says it should be 
there.


But, the newer versions of postfix now provide warnings for unused 
parameters, and that is what I'm getting for this one parameter:


myhost : Fri Mar 09, 13:16:12 : ~
 # postconf -n | grep mailman
alias_maps = hash:/etc/mail/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
virtual_alias_maps = ${mysql}/vam.cf, 
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
postconf: warning: /etc/postfix/main.cf: unused parameter: 
mailman_destination_recipient_limit=1

myhost : Fri Mar 09, 13:16:26 : ~
 #

Anyone have any idea why? Am I indeed not using it? I'd rather not just 
comment it out and test without some confirmation first, since this is a 
production box.


Thanks...

Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] iPhone App for moderating mails

[Tanstaafl]

On 2012-02-07 8:26 AM, Manuel Weiel manuelwe...@gmx.de wrote:

I don't know if this is appropriate, but I want to share it if
someone finds it useful:

I have written an app for moderating mails from your mailman lists.
You can add multiple lists and get an overview of all the pending
moderation requests. The app shows details about every mail like
size, preview of the mail and moderation reason and you can
approve/reject/discard the mail(s).

iMailModerate is available on the AppStore for 0,99$.


Very cool, but... any chance for an Android version?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Looking for lists with no members.Repopulsting lists. was: Resetting bounce scores globally

[Tanstaafl]

On 2011-08-19 7:57 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:
 Even if I occasionally misspell words (backwords vs backwards) and
 often make typos (Repopulsting vs Repopulating) :)

Oh, that just reminds us all that you are indeed human, not an alien
overlord... ;)
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Looking for lists with no members. Repopulstinglists. was: Resetting bounce scores globally

[Tanstaafl]

On 2011-08-18 9:18 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:
 I think sometimes developers/coders dont realise lesser mortals
 cant code to their standards, and in my case virtually not at all...

 I'm sure that sometimes that's true of me, but if you look at my posts
 in the archives of this list, I think you'll find that I usually bend
 over backwords to explain things patiently, clearly and understandably.

An incredibly loud understatement... ;)

Mark, you are hands down the *most* patient, knowledgeable *and*
articulate person I've ever encountered on any support list.

Thanks for all that you do!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Integrating with a forum

[Tanstaafl]

On 2011-05-29 5:22 PM, Ed Pastore wrote:
 In there, you can see that I did find M2F, which appears to be a
 list-forum integrator. Great. But it only works with phpBB 2. Not only
 is phpBB2 out of date, but also from past experience I find phpBB to be
 pretty underwhelming. So I'd like to use a more sophisticated (but still
 FOSS) forum such as MyBB (or others if you can suggest one that is up to
 the task). There is an alpha of M2F that claims to it eventually will do
 the trick, but it is indeed very alpha.

I prefer SimpleMachines forums myself... www.simplemachines.org

But I would dearly love to see a reliable and secure method of
integrating my forums with mailman...

I do believe that with the new architecture of MM3, this is supposed to
be much more easily doable...?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Questions about current/future functionality

[Tanstaafl]

On 2011-03-13 6:07 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 I have no knowledge of how mlmmj stores it's data or what its list
 settings and subscriber settings are and how they would map to Mailman.

Ok, thanks...

Maybe some thought could be given to a migrations page on the wiki,
dealing with such issues/questions? It's not like there are all that
many different choices when it comes to mailing list managers...

Then put out a call to volunteers to provide content... if I were a
programmer, I'd definitely be willing to take this on for the
Libreoffice guys... and I may even give it a whack as a regular end
user. It seems like it would be good press for Mailman if the devs were
to provide assistance in such an endeavor.

This would obviously have to be post MM3 release, so it isn't an
immediate need...

Anyway, its just a thought...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Questions about current/future functionality

[Tanstaafl]

On 2011-03-10 5:32 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 Tanstaafl wrote:

 So, will MM3 have the ability to assign unique credentials
 (username+password) to admins and moderators?

 Yes.

Thanks for all of your answers Mark, very helpful...

One last question...

The last response I got was about how difficult a migration would be and
not to hold my breath about moving to mailman even once MM3 is out...

Do you or anyone else know anything about mlmmj, and how hard migrating
the user accounts and archives would be?

Thanks again...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] The No Attachments Option

[Tanstaafl]

On 2011-03-11 5:27 AM, Mailman Admin wrote:
 You can move attachments from incoming emails to the archive and send
 only a link to it to recipients.
 
 In this way only those who are interested in the attachment will have to
 download it.

Cool - but where is this option found??
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[Mailman-Users] Questions about current/future functionality

[Tanstaafl]

Hello,

There is currently another (this is probably the 3rd or 4th) discussion
going on right now on the tdf-discuss list (tdf = The Document
Foundation, which is hosting all of the libreoffice lists) about issues
with their list infrastructure...

They are currently using mlmmj, and have said there were very specific
reasons they decided not to use mailman, namely:

1. The problem with virtual hosting and lists with the same name for
different vhosts.

This is one of their biggest reasons. I know this will be properly
addressed in MM3, but that is of course not an option now (how close it
is, really, to release stage? Months? A year or more?).

I guess my main question is, is there a decent page I can point their
developers to as to how to make this work? Iirc, there are two different
ways to accomplish this, but they dismissed the idea of having 20 or 30
multiple instances of mailman...

2. Multiple moderators all sharing the same password.

Is it possible for each mod to have a different password? If not, isn't
this a security issue if you decide to boot a moderator? If not, why not?

3. Moderation via email is impossible or difficult.

This is their second biggest reason to not use mailman. Is there a web
page/FAQ that describes how to do this? Is it really that difficult
(I've never used the email moderator interface).

The reason this is such a big deal is they allow posts from
non-subscribers, all of which must be moderated.

Also, it would be nice to be able to add a [Moderated] tag to the
subject if possible, and possibly even inject some bracketed text into
the message body at the top.

Thanks for any comments/pointers...

Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Questions about current/future functionality

[Tanstaafl]

On 2011-03-10 6:55 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
 2. Multiple moderators all sharing the same password.
 
 Is it possible for each mod to have a different password? If not, isn't
 this a security issue if you decide to boot a moderator? If not, why not?

Wow.. I forgot that access to the moderator pages is controlled by
password only, so having a shared password seems totally insecure to me now.

So, will MM3 have the ability to assign unique credentials
(username+password) to admins and moderators? Is there a way to assign
unique passwords now for different moderators?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web interface - specifydifferentIP:port?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-12-30 4:52 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
 After the change to the DocRoot, now when I go to either one I get only
 one error:
 
 mod_mime_magic: can't read `/usr/lib64/mailman/cgi-bin/admin'

Forgot to ask - any other ideas on this error message? I'm looking into
it from the apache angle, but not getting anywhere...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web interface - specifydifferentIP:port?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-12-31 10:24 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
 Tanstaafl writes:
 On 2010-12-30 4:52 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
 After the change to the DocRoot, now when I go to either one I get only
 one error:
 
 mod_mime_magic: can't read `/usr/lib64/mailman/cgi-bin/admin'

 Forgot to ask - any other ideas on this error message? I'm looking into
 it from the apache angle, but not getting anywhere...

 Have you run check_perms recently?

Yep, shows no problems...

 What are the owner, group, and permissions for that file?

Same as all the rest in cgi-bin:

-rwxr-s--x  1 mailman mailman 10448 Dec  5 13:37 admin

 Have you enabled ACLs, or SELinux, or other such software?

Nope...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web interface - specifydifferentIP:port?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-12-29 9:07 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

snip

 This might be related to the DocumentRoot. I don't know. I would change
 the DocumentRoot for the reasons I indicate above.

Done, and thanks...

 That probably won't change these errors, and if it doesn't, and the
 Mailman web interface continues to work, this is an Apache question
 that I can't answer.
 
 One thing you might consider is whether these errors always occur or
 only when you go to the port 80 http URL and not when you go to an
 https://...:port/ URL. If the latter is the case, it has something to
 do with the port 80 host configuration.

Interesting...

After the change to the DocRoot, now when I go to either one I get only
one error:

mod_mime_magic: can't read `/usr/lib64/mailman/cgi-bin/admin'

Anyway, as you said the rest of the issues are all apache related, so
I'm off to figure out the last two issues I have.

Thanks again for all your help Mark!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web interface - specify differentIP:port?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-12-27 4:35 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 Tanstaafl wrote:
 Where do I specify the server crt/key pair for the lists.example.com
 vhost if I don't have a full blown vhost config file for it? Or can I
 just go ahead and create one (vhost config file pointing to the correct
 dir)?

 You need to have a VirtualHost block for this host:port. Whether that
 is in an included vhost config file or directly in httpd.conf or
 perhaps in the 50_mailman.conf file is up to you.

Ok... but what do I point the DocumentRoot and/or the directory to?

Hmmm... maybe /usr/lib64/mailman/cgi-bin/   ?

Yes... it works now! Cool... thanks for your patience Mark...

 OK. so now it seems there is some permissions error on
 /usr/lib64/mailman/cgi-bin/admin. Are the /usr/lib64/mailman/cgi-bin/*
 files all in Mailman's group and all SETGID and world readable and
 executable and are all the directories in the path at least world
 searchable? Have you run bin/check_perms lately?

Just did, and there were no errors... and the site is definitely working
 now, but I just checked and that error message is still happening
whenever I access one of the list pages...

Any other ideas? Is it something I should be worried about?

Many thanks again for your help...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web interface - specifydifferentIP:port?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-12-23 3:48 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 Tanstaafl wrote:

Mark wisely pointed out:
 If you haven't told Apache to listen on the port you're redirecting to,
 that would explain a lot. You don't necessarily need a VirtualHost
 block for that IP and port, but you do need to tell Apache to listen.

Ah, ok, that makes sense... but this brings up another question...

Where do I specify the server crt/key pair for the lists.example.com
vhost if I don't have a full blown vhost config file for it? Or can I
just go ahead and create one (vhost config file pointing to the correct
dir)?

 As for logs...

 With the redirect commented, I can get to the non-ssl pages just fine...

 Trying to go to the ssl page, it gives the same error, and this is in
 the error_log:

 [Thu Dec 23 14:33:04 2010] [error] [client 192.168.1.110]
 mod_mime_magic: can't read `/usr/lib64/mailman/cgi-bin/admin'
 [Thu Dec 23 14:33:04 2010] [error] [client 192.168.1.110] client denied
 by server configuration: /usr/htdocs

 Actually, it appears that there is some issue causing the directives in
 /etc/apache2/conf/modules.d/50_mailman.conf to not apply to the
 https://lists.example.com:#/ host because 50_mailman.conf contains
 
 ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/

Crap-crud... sorry, I copied from the old version from back before
gentoo moved everything - I had neglected to delete the old/no longer
used directory...

From the correct/used /etc/apache2/modules.d/50_mailman.conf file:

IfDefine MAILMAN
ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib64/mailman/cgi-bin/
Directory /usr/lib64/mailman/cgi-bin/
AllowOverride None
Options None
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
/Directory

Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
AllowOverride None
Options ExecCGI FollowSymLinks
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
/Directory

Alias /mailman-icons/ /usr/lib64/mailman/icons/
Directory /usr/lib64/mailman/icons/
AllowOverride None
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
/Directory
/IfDefine

 Is there some kind of .conf parser for apache that will show the current
 configs it is using, similar to 'postconf -n' for postfix?

 Not that I know of.

Too bad, it would sure come in handy when troubleshooting apache
problems, especially in complex environments (unlike my simple one)...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web interface - specifydifferentIP:port?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-12-27 7:54 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
 Tanstaafl writes:
 Is there some kind of .conf parser for apache that will show the current
 configs it is using, similar to 'postconf -n' for postfix?

Mark replied:
 Not that I know of.

 Too bad, it would sure come in handy when troubleshooting apache
 problems, especially in complex environments (unlike my simple one)...

 I'm not an Apache expert, just addicted to doc browsing (and have the
 memory of a packrat, full of shiny but often useless things), but ISTR
 that there is a debug option or some such to get Apache to report the
 configs it has parsed, and maybe even what it learned from them.

Cool, thanks Stephen, I'll google from that angle - and will report back
if I find anything interesting...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web interface - specify differentIP:port?

[Tanstaafl]

Thanks a lot for your help here Mark...

On 2010-12-22 5:01 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 Tanstaafl wrote:
 Hmmm... so, is 4.29 - which says otherwise (and which is referenced from
 the FAQ you pointed me to below)- no longer valid?

 http://wiki.list.org/x/7oA9

 4.29 or 4.27?

Wups, sorry, yeah I meant 4.27...

 Both those FAQs ar valid. Perhaps it would help us understand if you
 told us *exactly* what you are trying to accomplish. E.g., are you
 really trying to force all access via https port 443 or are you trying
 to do something else:

Not port 443...

I'm trying to get things working on a non-standard port along the lines
of the How-To found here:

http://www.wesayso.net

(I know, I know, this is not ideal, but it does work well for all of the
other sites I've set up, now I'd just like to transition my mailman
install over to it as well)...

 Also note that step 1 of FAQ 4.27 is only to get an initial access to
 an http URL redirected to https. You still need to do steps 2 and 3 to
 make the form action URLs go to the correct place without redirection
 so as to not lose the form data.

I did... I set:

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s:#/mailman/'

Where # is the 5 digit port I set it to, then I ran:

 # ./withlist -l -a -r fix_url
Importing fix_url...
Running fix_url.fix_url()...
Loading list listname (locked)
Saving list
... repeat for each list
Finalizing
 #

Was that the correct output? Did I need to stop mailman before running
that command?q

I also added the redirect for the non-ssl host to the ssl host per the
instructions at the above site:

RewriteCond   %{HTTP_HOST}  ^lists\.example\.com
RewriteRule ^(.*) https://lists.example.com:#$1 [NC,R=301,L]

(# is a 5 digit valid port that is not in use)

These two lines work fine for redirecting my other sites...

I didn't add an actual vhost directive for mailman in apache because I
never needed it before - I think that the settings in 50_mailman.conf
take care of that part...?

Strangely, even though I did the above changes, if I remove the
redirect, I can get to the lists on the non-ssl url, and it seems to
work fine (shows the membership, etc)... ??? I haven't tried changing
any settings yet though...

Sorry, I'm not very good with this stuff...

 when I try to visit the correct URL, it tries to connect, but
 looks like some kind of looping going on, then I finally get a
 'The connection was reset' error...

 What is the correct URL? Note that the changes I suggest above
 only affect what URLs are generated as links and for posting of
 forms. They don't affect what happens when you go to one.

The correct URL is what I'm trying to change...

The old one - that still works when the redirect above is commented out
- was:

http://lists.example.com/mailman

I'm trying to make it work on:

https://lists.example.com:#/mailman

 You may have some kind of circular redirect going on in Apache as
 noted in step 1 of FAQ 4.27, or there may be some other problem. It
 is difficult to say what without seeing your httpd.conf and all
 included files.
 
 What's in your Apache error_log?

I'll have to get back to you on that - no access to the server logs
right now...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web interface - specifydifferentIP:port?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-12-23 2:08 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 I set:

 DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s:#/mailman/'

 Where # is the 5 digit port I set it to, then I ran:

 # ./withlist -l -a -r fix_url

snip

 I also added the redirect for the non-ssl host to the ssl host per the
 instructions at the above site:

 RewriteCond   %{HTTP_HOST}  ^lists\.example\.com
 RewriteRule ^(.*) https://lists.example.com:#$1 [NC,R=301,L]

 (# is a 5 digit valid port that is not in use)

 These two lines work fine for redirecting my other sites...

 I'm surprised this works for anything...
snip
 The above two lines must either be in a VirtualHost block that applies
 only to port 80 requests

They are... but thanks for the tip on how to not rewrite if the port is
the right one already... can't hurt to add it so I did...

 I didn't add an actual vhost directive for mailman in apache because I
 never needed it before - I think that the settings in 50_mailman.conf
 take care of that part...?

 Presumably they apply to all hosts which should be OK.

I meant I don't have a specific apache2 listener for mailman, like I do
for my other websites, I've only been (tryingto) add the rewrite rule (I
keep my rewrite rules in one .conf file, and the vhosts in individual
files per host)... maybe I need to create one that is listening on the
correct port, like I have for my other non-mailman vhosts?

 Strangely, even though I did the above changes, if I remove the
 redirect, I can get to the lists on the non-ssl url, and it seems to
 work fine (shows the membership, etc)... ??? I haven't tried changing
 any settings yet though...

 Without the rewrite, you should also be able to get there using the SSL
 URL.

Just tried, nope, it does the looping thing then gives the same error.

So, you're saying it is ok/normal for both the ssl and non-ssl pages to
work, even after I changed mm_cfg

As for logs...

With the redirect commented, I can get to the non-ssl pages just fine...

Trying to go to the ssl page, it gives the same error, and this is in
the error_log:

[Thu Dec 23 14:33:04 2010] [error] [client 192.168.1.110]
mod_mime_magic: can't read `/usr/lib64/mailman/cgi-bin/admin'
[Thu Dec 23 14:33:04 2010] [error] [client 192.168.1.110] client denied
by server configuration: /usr/htdocs

Then, after commenting out the redirect and restarting apache, when I
try to go to the normal page (which should redirect to the ssl page), I
get the same error, nothing in the ssl logs, and only this in the
access_log:

192.168.1.110 - - [23/Dec/2010:14:37:19 -0500] GET
/mailman/admin/listname/ HTTP/1.1 301 349

and these two lines in the error_log:

[Thu Dec 23 14:37:06 2010] [notice] caught SIGTERM, shutting down
[Thu Dec 23 14:37:09 2010] [notice] Apache/2.2.16 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.16
OpenSSL/1.0.0c configured -- resuming normal operations

sigh

Is there some kind of .conf parser for apache that will show the current
configs it is using, similar to 'postconf -n' for postfix?
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[Mailman-Users] Mailman web interface - specify different IP:port?

[Tanstaafl]

Hi all,

I'm a little confused about how the mailman web interface works, since
it doesn't use normal vhost conf files...

How would I go about specifying a different IP:port for the mailman web
interface?

Currently, in /etc/apache2/conf/modules.d/50_mailman.conf I have:

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/

Directory /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
AllowOverride None
Options None
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
/Directory

Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/

Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
AllowOverride None
Options ExecCGI FollowSymLinks
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
/Directory

But I'd like to specify a redirect to a specific URL, namely:

https://lists.example.com:#

Where/how do I go about doing this?

Thanks,

Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web interface - specify different IP:port?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-12-22 1:22 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 Tanstaafl wrote:

 How would I go about specifying a different IP:port for the mailman
 web interface?
 
 [...]
 
 But I'd like to specify a redirect to a specific URL, namely:
 
 https://lists.example.com:#
 
 Where/how do I go about doing this?

 You don't want to redirect to a different URL or port. Doing so will
 lose the data from POST transactions and break the Mailman web
 interface.

Hmmm... so, is 4.29 - which says otherwise (and which is referenced from
the FAQ you pointed me to below)- no longer valid?

http://wiki.list.org/x/7oA9

 You want to set DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN and possibly PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in
 mm_cfg.py so that all Mailman generated URLs contain the port.
 
 I.e., the defaults for these are
 
 DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
 PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
 
 and you would put
 
 DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:/mailman/'
 PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s:/pipermail/%(listname)s'
 
 in mm_cfg.py where  is the desired port. Then you need to run
 fix_url to update the lists as in
 
  bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url
 
 See the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/gIA9.

I did this, but the pages don't work... when I try to visit the correct
URL, it tries to connect, but looks like some kind of looping going on,
then I finally get a 'The connection was reset' error...

Any ideas?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman DOA after power outage crash.

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-10-31 7:00 AM, J.A. Terranson me...@mfn.org wrote:
 Thanks for the flush information: even though this was a unique
 situation (every box in the rack was damaged, several beyond repair
 [including the backup server]), living in the middle of the tornado
 capital of the world means it could realistically happen again, so
 thats a really good one to know.

Sounds to me like you should make it a priority to get your servers
communicating with your UPS's to perform safe shutdowns for extended
power outages?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] User Preferences

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-10-07 5:50 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 Tanstaafl wrote:
 How does one go about defining which user prefs are available to users
 when they log into their users page?

 Is it possible to pick and choose? Hopefully without having to dog into
 the code?

 The user options page is built from the options.html template. If you
 want to remove certain settings from the page, you can make sitewide,
 domainwide or list specific edited version of the options.html
 template with those settings removed.

Thanks Mark...

IS pretty much every option available as a per user pref? I'm
specifically interested in the inclusion (or not) of [Subject Tags]...

 See the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/jYA9 for info on where to save
 the edited template.

Thanks again... :)
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Re: [Mailman-Users] User Preferences

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-10-08 3:50 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 No. The subject prefix is a list setting an there is no user option to
 enable/disable it.
 
 User options include those things which are check boxes on the admin
 Membership list page plus topics subscription and that's about it. The
 default options page shows them all. You can remove some of those from
 the template, but you can't add anything.

Ok, thanks...

Any chance this could be a per user option in MM3? The reason I ask is
some people like them, and some people don't, and it would be nice if
the list setting could be the default, then each user could override it
by defining their own, or just disabling it completely...
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[Mailman-Users] User Preferences

[Tanstaafl]

How does one go about defining which user prefs are available to users
when they log into their users page?

Is it possible to pick and choose? Hopefully without having to dog into
the code?

Thanks...
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[Mailman-Users] SOLVED - Re: Apache startup warning/error: mailman DocumentRoot?

[Tanstaafl]

Just getting back to this, and to close it out...

On 2010-06-02 10:03 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 Tanstaafl wrote:
 So, my question is, what should the path in 
 /etc/apache2/vhosts.d/lists.example.com be pointing to? Where *is*
 the mailman DocumentRoot?

 Mailman neither has nor needs a DocumentRoot. Just remove it,

That did it, thanks! I don't know why I thought that was needed...

As long as the specific list management pages work, I don't care about
the root domain (lists.example.com) itself...

As always, Mark, thanks for your spot on reply... :)

Charles
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[Mailman-Users] Apache startup warning/error: mailman DocumentRoot?

[Tanstaafl]

Hello again,

There's another annoying warning message I get that I'd like to resolve,
but I only get it at startup, so I keep forgetting about it. I had to
shutdown the server this morning to move it to a new UPS, and saw it
again when I started the server up, so now I'm asking. I know there's
something obvious I must be missing, but I'm used to getting whacked by
2x4's when asking questions like this so I'm wearing my Spartan warriors
helmet.

Anyway, here's the warning/error:

Warning: DocumentRoot [/var/www/localhost/htdocs/mailman] does not exist
apache2: Could not reliably determine the servers fully qualified domain
name, using ###.###.###.### for ServerName

Now, the path is correct, but there is no mailman directory in the
htdocs folder, so the warning is correct - and, to make matters worse, I
*do* have this path explicitly set in the
/etc/apache2/vhosts.d/lists.example.com config file, although I'm not
sure why now.

Everything works fine... I can go to lists.example.com and manage my
lists, and all links in the list messages are of the form
...lists.example.com/... and they all work for managing bounces, etc.

50_mailman.conf contains:

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/

Directory /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
AllowOverride None
Options None
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
/Directory

Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/

Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
AllowOverride None
Options ExecCGI FollowSymLinks
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
/Directory

So, my question is, what should the path in
/etc/apache2/vhosts.d/lists.example.com be pointing to? Where *is* the
mailman DocumentRoot?

Tia...
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names, revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-05-10 7:20 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 It turns out there was a Bug/Patch at
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/328907 which is related to
 this. I've fixed that for MM 2.1.14 with the attached patch which
 allows you to specify VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_HOST in mm_cfg.py, and if
 you do, it will be appended to the local addresses in virtual-mailman.

Great! Assuming you meant VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN (that's what the
patch refers to), I have two questions (sorry ;( hopefully these will be
the last on this topic)...

In order to accomplish my goal, of lists working as
listn...@example.com, but the local domain in the mail headers showing
as listn...@lists.example.com instead of the postfix host name of
listn...@smtp.example.com,

1. Would I set

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'lists'

or

VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN = 'lists.example.com'

Maybe the comments in mm_cfg.py for this option should provide an
example for something other than just plain 'localhost'?

and

2. Does this require any mods to postfix/main.cf?

Thanks again Mark!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names, revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-05-09 5:29 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 Note that I have never done exactly this, so I'm not totally certain it
 will do what you want, but I think it will. I also think it probably
 isn't worth maintaining a non-standard patch to do it, but only you
 can answer that for yourself.

I wouldn't mind adding the local domain in postfix, but definitely don't
want to mess with patching MM myself and maintaining it. It's really
only a cosmetic problem anyway that most likely no one else will ever
see (how many people ever look at full headers?)...

That said, any chance that MM3 can/will provide a way to do this?
Something like a DEFAULT_LIST_HOST option?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names, revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-05-05 10:12 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 Please let us know how this goes. I will need to revise that FAQ.

Ok, apologies for the delay, but I didn't get to this until now...

It went smooth as silk and everything is running fine, but I have one
minor question.

Here's a log entry for a test delivery after the changes:

1. May  9 16:39:35 myhost postfix/smtpd[21517]: connect from
my.client.example.com[###.###.###.###]
2. May  9 16:39:35 myhost postfix/smtpd[21517]: AE6D7621142:
client=my.client.example.com[###.###.###.###], sasl_method=PLAIN,
sasl_username=myu...@example.com
3. May  9 16:39:35 myhost postfix/cleanup[21523]: AE6D7621142:
message-id=4be71d87.6030...@example.com
4. May  9 16:39:35 myhost postfix/qmgr[21380]: AE6D7621142:
from=m...@example.com, size=852, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
5. May  9 16:39:35 myhost postfix/local[21525]: AE6D7621142:
to=listn...@smtp.example.com, orig_to=listn...@example.com,
relay=local, delay=0.24, delays=0.03/0.01/0/0.2, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent
(delivered to command: /usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post listname)
6. May  9 16:39:35 moria postfix/qmgr[21380]: AE6D7621142: removed
7. May  9 16:39:36 moria postfix/smtpd[21517]: disconnect from
my.client.example.com[###.###.###.###]

My question is about line #5 above:

5. May  9 16:39:35 myhost postfix/local[21525]: AE6D7621142:
to=listn...@smtp.example.com, orig_to=listn...@example.com,
relay=local, delay=0.24, delays=0.03/0.01/0/0.2, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent
(delivered to command: /usr/lib64/mailman/mail/mailman post listname)

Why is it listn...@smtp.example.com instead of listn...@lists.example.com?

smtp.example.com is the postfix hostname, so I'm sure that's where it's
coming from, and it isn't a big deal, but for some reason I thought that
it would use the URL subdomain? No worries if it isn't trivial to change
this so it uses lists.example.com, but thats what I'd prefer...

Profuse thanks again to you Mark for being willing to bang this out with me!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Apache Mailman VHost Config - WAS: Re: Changinghost names, revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-05-04 1:44 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 Isn't there something like
 
 ScriptAlias /mailman/ /path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/
 
 and
 
 Alias /pipermail/ /path/to/mailman/archives/public/
 
 in something like /etc/apache2/conf.d/50_mailman.conf?
 
 That should be all you need.

Ah, right, I forgot about that one... yep, everything looks right so
that answers that...

Thanks again for all of your help Mark.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names, revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-05-04 1:25 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 Tanstaafl wrote:
 On 2010-05-03 6:24 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 Here's how it looks to me. It was initially set up with email domain 
 myhost.example.com and that is all fine. It all works as it should. 
 You then decided that you wanted to be able to post to 
 listn...@example.com so you added a virtual_alias_mapping in 
 mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf to map listn...@example.com to 
 listn...@myhost.example.com where it would be further mapped to
 local listname via Mailman's
 hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

Whew... you pretty much nailed it. Its been so long since I set this up
- and its been working so well - that I had completely forgotten how I
did this, but I remember now, and you're right, I did manually create
those aliases. :)

 The only problem with this is the listname listinfo page, list welcome
 messages, etc all say post to listn...@myhost.example.com

No problem, since I'm going to fix this up now, thanks to you... :)

 It would be better to just have the email domain as example.com and
 have
 
 POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example.com']
 
 so mailman creates the virtual-mailman. Then it appears that since 
 mapping listn...@example.com to listn...@myhost.example.com in the 
 current mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf works, you could just remove 
 those mappings from mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf and let the 
 mappings in virtual-mailman do the job.
 
 However, read the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/ZoCj which I just 
 wrote yesterday. Now I'm not sure whether that is even necessary.

I read it, and don't think it is... it seems to be just a different way
to do the same thing, but is much more complicated (and therefore more
room for breakage)...

 Clearly my understanding of Postfix is not complete. In your setup,
 is example.com a virtual_mailbox_domain (listed in 
 mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmd.cf)?

Yes:

# postmap -q example.com mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmd.cf
Example Primary Domain

Ok, so, now that we know how/why the current setup works, can you
confirm the steps to fix it properly as:

1. Stop postfix

2. Stop mailman

3. Make these changes to mm_cfg.py:

  MTA = 'Postfix'
  DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
  DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.example.com'
  POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 'example.com'
  VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
  add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

4. Run $prefix/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url to fix all existing lists

5. Run $prefix/bin/genaliases

6. Delete the listna...@example.com  listna...@myhost.example.com
   alias mappings from the mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf db

7. Start mailman

8. Start postfix

?

Many thanks again Mark... this has at least been a learning experience
for me... :)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names, revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-05-05 10:12 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 Tanstaafl wrote:
  POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 'example.com'

 The above needs to be
 
 POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example.com']

snip

 With the one change above, this seems all good.
 
 Please let us know how this goes. I will need to revise that FAQ.

Happy to do so, although I won't do this until tomorrow morning
(assuming I get in here early enough), as these lists are relatively
busy during the day.

Thanks again, Mark!

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Changing host names, revisited... POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS?

[Tanstaafl]

On 2010-05-03 6:24 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 On 5/3/2010 2:05 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:

 On 2010-05-03 12:32 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

 You're right. I confused myself because in my Postfix installation,
 mydomain and myhostname have the same value.

Heh... I'm more than a little confused right now, so no worries.

But see below - I actually think I've at least answered how/why it is
working, but I'm not sure what needs to be done to 'fix it' - or even if
it needs 'fixing'...

 So it appears that example.com is a virtual_mailbox_domain. So what's
 in virtual_mailbox_maps (mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmm.cf)? Does
 
 postmap -s mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmm.cf
 
 work?

No :( is it supposed to?

# postmap -s mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vmm.cf
postmap: fatal: mysql table /etc/postfix/mysql_vmm.cf: sequence
operation is not supported

Now... toward the end of your email, you had essentially summed up the
issue as:

 Apparently, smtp.example.com is myhostname which is in mydestinations by
 default, but now I am puzzled. What is it in your Postfix that maps
 listn...@example.com to local 'listname'? There must be something. This
 is the strange part - why is listn...@example.com mapped to local
 listname but non-listname-u...@example.com is mapped to a virtual
 mailbox maildir?

So, I started at the beginning and started querying all of my maps, and
voila:

# postmap -q listn...@example.com mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_vam.cf
listn...@myhost.example.com

which then maps to

# postmap -q listn...@myhost.example.com
hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
listname

and /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman is fully populated with these
STANZA's for all lists:

# STANZA START: listname
# CREATED: Wed Jan 11 18:32:22 2006
listn...@myhost.example.com  listname
etc...

But this kind of seems backwards to me... or at least, more complicated
than it needs to be. Maybe I initially wanted a virtual setup, but now
realize I only need lists for the one/main domain? shrug

Anyway, now I guess I just need to know if there's anything broken that
I really need to fix, or at least if it can be simplified. I'm also
thinking long term, for when MM3 is released and upgrade time comes.

Thanks again Mark...
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