Re: [Mailman-Users] Rather perplexing set of problems with a new 2.1.14vhost install on a DirectAdmin box -- and I'm new to Mailman

[Todd Zullinger]

Christopher Woods (CustomMade) wrote:
> Wondering if part of the problems are due to the OS (CentOS)... This
> VPS came specced with it, and I went along with the choice. Little
> was I aware of the development approach with regards to new and
> shiny... (this is your cue to all have a chuckle at my expense ;-)
> My installed Python is 2.4; python-devel was installed new today -
> but, of course, is still old.

The EPEL repository for RHEL/CentOS has a python26 package which might
be of use to you.  You'd need to tell your mailman build to use
/usr/bin/python26 for that, but I think it should be workable.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Cannot set digest mode via URL

[Todd Zullinger]

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Under the GPL, you don't have any grounds for anything except the
> kind of campaign that might open you up to a libel suit as long as
> they're distributing source with the binary versions.  The GPL
> doesn't require that version numbers be munged by downstream, and I
> don't think you can trademark a version number.
>
> I don't like cPanel's way of operating, and I agree that Apple's
> interaction with the open source community *outside of Darwin* takes
> a lot more out than it puts back in.  Still, the GPL doesn't give
> any cause for action AFAICS.

Agreed.  I think the main alternative is using trademarks, like
Mozilla does.  That's not very popular with the very folks that do
support open source code well though.  Debian doesn't ship Firefox
because of this.  And Fedora sometimes has to work harder than they
should to get patches accepted upstream before they can be shipped as
part of the distro.

I tend to think that solution causes more harm than good, no matter
how well-intentioned it may be.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Cannot set digest mode via URL

[Todd Zullinger]

Brad Knowles wrote:
> If they are now shipping something and calling it 2.1.13 and it's
> not exactly the same code that we provide from
> , then I think it's time we had
> the PSF and/or FSF lawyers give them a call -- and speaking as a
> member of the Mailman Cabal, I will make sure to carry through on
> that, if necessary.

Red Hat and most other Linux distributions ship Mailman with various
patches, making it very much "not exactly the same code" and the GPL
license explicitly grants this freedom.  Are you suggesting that
trademark guidelines be applied, similar to what Mozilla does for
Firefox?¹

I'm not arguing that if a distributor patches Mailman and changes core
behavior to the point that it causes confusion for users and
potentially sullies Mailman's reputation that it's fine and should be
left alone.  Just trying to see what grounds on which you want the
lawyers to complain.

¹ Because of those trademark restrictions, Debian ships the firefox
code with their patches under the name Iceweasel.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Fake Email

[Todd Zullinger]

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Oct 31, 2009, at 1:28 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
>>A better way to do this would be to set up the MTA on Mailman's host
>>to only deliver to the list address (ie, Mailman) if the sender has
>>been authenticated (eg, with TLS).
>
> Or to use digital signatures for sender verification.  This is not
> something that Mailman currently supports.

I don't know if the patches at http://non-gnu.uvt.nl/mailman-ssls/
would be helpful here or not.  It's an attempt to add some OpenPGP and
S/MIME capabilities to Mailman.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] MM-2.1.12 Bug (non critical)

[Todd Zullinger]

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> I tend to agree that "normal" users think of globs instead of
> regexps.  Unfortunately, there's no good non-filesystem glob module
> in Python that I know of.  Ideally, there'd be a module that
> translates globs to regexps.  That might not be too hard.

Would fnmatch.translate work?

http://docs.python.org/library/fnmatch.html#fnmatch.translate

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Centos + Blue Quartz question - virtual site issue.

[Todd Zullinger]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Based on your off-list reply to Brad, it appears that you're using a
> CentOS/RedHat Mailman package. My understanding of this package,
> which may be incorrect, is it integrates aliases with Postfix as the
> MTA.

The Red Hat / CentOS mailman packages don't create any default
integration with an MTA.  That is left to the user to configure.  The
package includes this text in the description:

Documentation can be found in: /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.9

When the package has finished installing, you will need to perform
some additional installation steps, these are described in:
/usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.9/INSTALL.REDHAT

So, just as with installing mailman from source, the administrator of
the machine needs to do some configuration.

FWIW, the INSTALL.REDHAT file is essentially the same as the mailman
INSTALL file, with the sections on getting the files onto the disk
stripped out and information on the FHS path modifications added.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] welcome message

[Todd Zullinger]

Henry Hartley wrote:
> Joe Damico wrote:
>>
>> We would like to make some slight modification to the Mailman
>> welcome message for new subscribers at our location.  Where is this
>> message located and if it is in Python code, how do we go about
>> changing the text?
>
> If you just want to change the first paragraph of that message, it's
> done through the regular web interface. On the General Options page,
> a  little more than half way down is an entry for "List-specific
> text  prepended to new-subscriber welcome message (Details for
> welcome_msg).

And if you want to do more than just prefix text to the stock welcome
message, you can do that too.  The welcome message template is stored
at ~mailman/templates//subscribeack.txt (where  is
a placeholder, e.g. ~mailman/templates/en/subscribeack.txt for
English).

You can customize this in several ways, depending on how much you want
the changes to affect.  Templates are searched in the following order:

# 1. the list-specific language directory
#lists//
#
# 2. the domain-specific language directory
#templates//
#
# 3. the site-wide language directory
#templates/site/
#
# 4. the global default language directory
#templates/

The first match is used.  So, if you only want to adjust the welcome
message for one list, use the first location above.  Just copy the
stock welcome message to the desired location and edit to to your
liking.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] "create a new list" web interface

[Todd Zullinger]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> By diabling SELinux altogether it worked.

If you don't want to keep SELinux disabled, it should be possible to
make mailman work without too much trouble.  I do know that the Red
Hat packages install mailman in locations that are more FHS compliant
to help ease the writing of the SELinux policy.  If you're installing
mailman from source, it might be a little messier.

FWIW, I installed mailman from the packages provided as part of CentOS
5 and did a little light testing.  I had to create a small SELinux
policy module to allow mailman to be able to play nicely with postfix
and have the web interface be able to create lists.  The audit2allow
tool made this fairly trivial (easier than the manual steps I'll
list below to recreate the SELinux module, in fact :).

So, the policy that was generated via audit2allow is:

module mailmanpostfix 1.0;

require {
type mailman_mail_t;
type mailman_archive_t;
type postfix_etc_t;
type mailman_cgi_t;
class file { read getattr };
class dir search;
}

#= mailman_cgi_t ==
allow mailman_cgi_t postfix_etc_t:dir search;
allow mailman_cgi_t postfix_etc_t:file { read getattr };

#= mailman_mail_t ==
allow mailman_mail_t mailman_archive_t:dir search;

If you put that in to a file, say mailmanpostfix.te, you can compile
it into a module and load it with just a few commands (all taken from
the audit2allow manpage):

# Compile the module
$ checkmodule -M -m -o mailmanpostfix.mod mailmanpostfix.te
# Create the package
$ semodule_package -o mailmanpostfix.pp -m mailmanpostfix.mod
# Load the module into the kernel
$ semodule -i mailmanpostfix.pp

Now, I don't claim to be enough of an SELinux guru to know whether
some of the generated policy could be tightened up, but I don't think
any of it looks egregiously incorrect.  It's also quite likely to be
more secure than disabling SELinux entirely. ;)

On another note, you also said that you needed to be root to make
genaliases work.  Is that perhaps because the permissions and
ownership on the aliases* files are not correct? The mailman install
manual details the proper permission and ownership commands you should
run:

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node13.html

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Re: [Mailman-Users] selinux postfix + mailman

[Todd Zullinger]

Dony Tata wrote:
> how to configure selinux on centos 5 , i use postfix and mailman,if
> selinux set enabled, i have got error in /var/log/mailman/error
> "command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias /etc/mailman/aliases (status:
> 1, Operation not permitted)", if selinux set disabled, it's work
> fine. But i want set selinux to enable and postfix + mailman works
> fine...

A better place to get help on this would be a CentOS list or the
fedora-selinux-list.  You would also need to include the full AVC
message from the audit log (/var/log/audit/audit.log).

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Re: [Mailman-Users] converting an ezmlm archive

[Todd Zullinger]

Brandon Sussman wrote:
> A 15 minute attempt to find doc on how to convert an ezmlm archive
> to mailman is not showing much promise.
> 
> Without me personally writing a converter, is there any recent
> wisdom on doing this?

You should just need to convert the exmlm archive to mbox, then import
it into mailman using the procedure here:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq05.001.htp

A quick search for tools to convert ezmlm to mbox yielded a few
results.  One was:

http://www.arctic.org/~dean/scripts/ezmlm2mbox

Hopefully that gets you started at least. :)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] getting python errorss with check_perms

[Todd Zullinger]

Rob Tanner wrote:
> I think the bug URL you gave me is a wrong URL.  Bug 132495 is a
> Japanese encoding bug and its status is closed (which I presume
> means fixed).  That doesn't sound like the problem I'm seeing.

The bug summary may not sound like what you're seeing, but the patch
that was applied to correct the initial problem does redefine _() and
can cause the sort of errors you're seeing.  I know this because I ran
into some places where the patch was incomplete and caused just such a
problem for me. :)

> In answer to your questions, the Fedora release is Fedora release 7
> (Moonshine) and the mailman package installed  is mailman-2.1.9-5.1
> (output of rpm -qa).   I just no checked, and there is not a more
> current package to download via yum.

There may still be problems with the patch, as the maintainer noted in
the last comment.  The bug is closed with the resolution rawhide,
which means that the latest updated patch may not have been pushed to
F7 (I haven't looked closely, though you can by looking at the Fedora
CVS: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/rpms/mailman/)

There does happen to be an update that is in the updates-testing
repository, and the patch in question has been updated in that version
(mailman-2.1.9-5.3.i386.rpm).  You can download that directly or
enable the updates-testing repo to install it with yum like so:

yum --enablerepo=updates-testing update mailman

This package should hit the standard updates repo very soon as it
fixes CVE-2006-3636 (multiple cross-site scripting vulnerabilities).

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Re: [Mailman-Users] getting python errorss with check_perms

[Todd Zullinger]

Rob Tanner wrote:
> Running this as root so that it can fix any perm problems, but I'm 
> getting what I assume to be python errors:
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailman]# bin/check_perms -f
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "bin/check_perms", line 382, in 
>   checkarchives()
> File "bin/check_perms", line 216, in checkarchives
>   print _("""\
> NameError: global name '_' is not defined
> 
> 
> I get the same errors without the '-f' argument.  Any ideas?

You said in another thread that you're migrating to a Fedora Core
system.  Are you using the Fedora rpm packages of Mailman?  This looks
like a bug in one of the patches that is applied in the Fedora/Red Hat
rpms.

If you're using the rpms, what version of Fedora are you running, and
what is the version and release of the mailman package?  The changes
I'm thinking of were discussed at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/132495

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Re: [Mailman-Users] After Installing Virtual Hosts with mailman, regular aliases quit working.

[Todd Zullinger]

audit wrote:
> Here's my output from postconf -n
> 
> alias_database = hash:/usr/local/etc/postfix/aliases
> alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
[...]
> Problem is, anything that I had in my /usr/local/etc/postfix/aliases 
> file that wasn't the standard root, bin, postmaster, etc won't work. I 
> get the error Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local 
> recipient table

You need to have your normal postfix aliases in alias_maps in addition
to the mailman aliases file.  The install guide[1] gives an example:

alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases,
hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

[1] http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node13.html

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mass subscribe

[Todd Zullinger]

Khalil Abbas wrote:
> I have a dedicated server with cent-OS .. I access my mailman using:
> 
> http://www.mydoman.com/mailman/admin/listname
> 
> based on the message below, a nice fellow answered my questions by:
> path-to-mailman/bin/
> 
> now I browsed my server using SSH but couldn't find the path to
> mailman anywhere, I automatically installed it using the control
> panel of my server.. but I don't know where I can find the path to
> mailman and the bin directory in it to run the commands! could
> anyone please help me?

You could find where mailman is installed in various ways, depending
on how your "control panel" installed it.  Some options you have
include:

- use the locate or find commands to search for sync-members
- use rpm to query for the list of files in the mailman package (if
  your control panel installed mailman via an rpm
- try ~mailman/bin, as the bin dir is typically in the mailman users
  home directory

There are surely other ways to find this.  In the end, you really need
to be more familiar with your OS and how the software on it is
installed.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Adding the list aliases

[Todd Zullinger]

mattias wrote:
> But after i have created a list with newlist Wil the aliases be
> displayed?

I believe so (but it's been a long time since I created a list without
using the nice Postfix integration that handles this automatically, so
I could be wrong).

> And wil all this commands work iven if i install with apt-get
> install in ubuntu Or yum in fedora

I don't know about ubuntu, but in Fedora (and Red Hat), mailman is
installed in different locations than the default Mailman tarball
would install things.  The details of the changes are included in the
file INSTALL.REDHAT, located in /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.9.  I
mentioned this in reply to your question on the fedora users list just
yesterday (along with answers and links to the Postfix integration
instructions).

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Re: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway

[Todd Zullinger]

Brad Knowles wrote:
> There's no way we can possibly track down every single developer on
> every single platform that is creating localized patches for Mailman
> on their platform.  The only way this process can possibly work is
> if they use our mechanisms to send their patches to us.

FWIW, I was not suggesting that the Mailman developer's track down the
Debian maintainers (or any other packagers).  I only provided the
links to the Debian info in case someone on this list wanted to
contact them and ask about the patches they have.

I don't follow the developer list so I don't know if any of the Debian
maintainers are on it or if they've submitted any non-debian-specific
patches to the Mailman developers.

If they haven't, then I think they're being quite negligent -- as,
apparently, does the Debian policy guidelines.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway

[Todd Zullinger]

(Disclaimer: I'm not a Debian maintainer or user)

Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 8/25/07, Manlio Perillo wrote:
> 
>>  Do the debian maintainer of Mailman frequent this mailing list?
> 
> Not so far as I know.
> 
> Improved contact between our project and the other projects which 
> take our code and create binary packages is one thing that we would 
> like to work on, but of course the two biggest problems are:
> 
>   1.  Finding out which projects are actually doing what with
>   our code

AFAICS, The Debian patches to Mailman are here:

http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-mailman/trunk/debian/patches/

> If you know who the maintainer of the Debian packages is, and you can 
> light a fire under them to get them to come participate on this list, 
> we'd appreciate that.

For anyone interested, the maintainer contact addresses and quite a
bit of other info is available on the package info pages:

http://packages.debian.org/stable/mail/mailman
http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mailman.html

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing by email?

[Todd Zullinger]

Brad Knowles wrote:
>>  Also does mailman 2.1.3 support the sending of a blank email to
>>  [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? (or some similar address) instead
>>  of the subscribe email via request?
> 
> Sure.  Just set up your aliases to support that.  Mailman doesn't
> actually see anything of the addresses that were used to submit the
> messages, it just takes the command-line options it's passed via the
> alias definition.

There should be no need to add aliases for that, they already exist.
The -join (and -leave) aliases will ignore the
subject and body.

The mailman list admin manual says this:

1.1 A List's Email Addresses

[...]

  • [EMAIL PROTECTED] - by sending a message to this address, a
new member can request subscription to the list. Both the
Subject: header and body of such a message are ignored. Note that
[EMAIL PROTECTED] is an alias for the -join address.

  • [EMAIL PROTECTED] - by sending a message to this address,
a member can request unsubscription from the list. As with the
-join address, the Subject: header and body of the message is
ignored. Note that [EMAIL PROTECTED] is an alias for
the -leave address.

I don't know for sure if these were in 2.1.3, but I suspect they were.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Error - can't open aliases.db

[Todd Zullinger]

Hydro John wrote:
> Frustraiting! No aliases file in /var/lib/mailman/data/... it must
> be that the file in /etc/mailmain/ is the one (or at least it looks
> like the one) that the service should be using... 

It sounds like you're using a Red Hat or Fedora packaged mailman.  In
those distros, mailman is patched to try and put the files in
locations more in line with the FHS (for distro consistency and
SELinux integration).  This can be confusing if you're following the
standard mailman docs or asking for help here.

You can see a mapping of the standard locations to the changed
locations in the INSTALL.REDHAT file.  That way you can translate
the advice you'll get here into what you need for your system.

For the benefit of others, that file is available in the Fedora cvs
tree here:

http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/*checkout*/rpms/mailman/F-7/mailman.INSTALL.REDHAT.in

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Error when sending from an unsubscribed address

[Todd Zullinger]

Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 7/10/07, Simon Helson wrote:
> 
>>  I'm trying to send email to a mailman list from an address that
>>  isn't subscribed to the list, The expected behaviour (or the
>>  configured at least) would be for this message to be held for
>>  moderation, however it's not, and I'm getting the following error.
>>  Versions: Python 2.5.1, Mailman is 2.1.9.
> 
> IIRC, Python 2.5.x is too new for Mailman 2.1.9.  Try going back to
> the most recent version of Python 2.4.x, and see what happens.

Just as a datapoint, I helped someone on the Fedora list setup mailman
2.1.9 recently.  Fedora 7 uses python 2.5 and AFAICT, doesn't add any
patches to mailman for python 2.5 compatibility.  In some quick
testing, I've not run into any issues (not to say that there aren't
plenty of them lurking).

I just sent a message to a list where generic_nonmember_action is set
to hold and there wasn't any traceback or other error.  Perhaps
there's something else at play?  I wouldn't think the difference
between python 2.5 and 2.5.1 would be enough to cause this (though I'm
far from certain of that).

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Low level smtp error: Server not connected

[Todd Zullinger]

Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 5/29/07, Leonard Jacobs wrote:
> 
>>  It is strange that a pretty vanilla installation, CentOS and
>>  Postfix with the latest Mailman version of 2.1.9 is so hard to
>>  configure and use.
> 
> Can you share with us the relevant portions of your mm_cfg.py file,
> and your postfix/main.cf file?
> 
> Also, you did stop and restart Mailman after making these changes,
> right?  Have you tried stopping and restarting it again?

Just a guess, but have you looked for AVC denials or other messages if
you have SELinux enabled Leonard?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help

[Todd Zullinger]

James Dinkel wrote:
> Why does there need to be a patch to mailman?  Could you just setup 
> htdig and have it index the pipermail web pages?

That doesn't provide the per-list integration that Brian wants.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Looking for professional help

[Todd Zullinger]

Brian Carpenter wrote:
> My installation of mailman is on a Linux box running cPanel/WHM. The
> os is CentOS 4.4. It is not an apple machine. It seems to me that
> the patch is looking for a Defaults.py.in file, which I don't have.
> I could be wrong however in interpreting the error message.

I don't know much about the ht:dig patch, but it does appear from a
cursory reading of it's docs[1] that it is meant to be applied to a
Mailman *source* tree, not to an already installed Mailman.

You may be able to force this to apply to the cPanel version of
mailman, but you'd face an uphill battle I'm sure.  See FAQ 6.11[2]
regarding cPanel.  There is a source dir on cPanel, the last time I
looked.  But it differs in numerous ways from the official Mailman
install.

(Someone out there may be interested in doing this work for pay,
though I'm not one of them.  My experience with cPanel is
intentionally limited.  I found it incredibly annoying to have to
track down change after change that they'd made to the various parts
of the system.)

[1] http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/patches/444884/install.html
[2] http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp

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Re: [Mailman-Users] us-ascii problem with new install in Ubuntu(SOLVED)

[Todd Zullinger]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Some additional information:
> 
> This is mailman 2.1.8-2ubuntu2.
> 
> The reference to the 'bug fix' is at
> 
> in which is found
> 
>   * Make sure we don't ship /var/lib/mailman/pythonlib, should make that
> go away on installations which already have it (closes: #242740).
> 
> (I couldn't find a description of #242740).

That looks to be from the Debian Mailman package, which Ubuntu uses as
it's base.  See the long trail here:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=242740

The short summary for the bug is "bad installation when
/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib is a symlink."

(I've never found the Debian bugs page very easy to follow. :)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] FW: Wrong group

[Todd Zullinger]

Ralph,

Also, you should check out the Mailman install manual, at least the
section on integrating Postfix.

http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html

And of course, peruse the Mailman FAQ if you haven't already done so.

If the package you are using has omitted some of these steps you may
need to finish them.  And file a bug/feature request with the packager
to see if they can do this automatically in the future.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] FW: Wrong group

[Todd Zullinger]

Ralph Utbult wrote:
> Installed package via X (Gnome). Version 2.1.9.

What distro and distro version?

> Since I'm not a regular Un*x administrator (fix some simple mail
> problem once a month) I tend to like GUI over CMD ;-) 

Fair enough.  Though mailman provides no GUI method of installing, so
any such method that is used would have to be provided by your distro
and you'd likely have to ask them for help if it fails (or hope that
someone here uses the same distro and can tell you how to get it
working).

> Todd, my /usr/lib/mailman/subdir-files all have mail as GUID. Isn't
> that suppose to mean mail client (Postfix)?
> Silly question, is the mail wrapper the
> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman file?

Yeah, that's the wrapper script.  I'm not entirely sure how or if
postfix checks the permissions and ownership of the wrapper.  The
perms/ownership I think are most important to postfix are those of the
alias file.

> Aliases is root mail and aliases.db is mail mail

That seems like the right setup.  What does your Postfix alias_maps
setting say?  Is there a separate entry for the mailman aliases
there?

> Isn't group mailman used at all?

The default if you install mailman from source is to use group
mailman.  I know that Debian uses group mail in their packages.  I'm
not sure what other distros use group mail.  In any event, that's a
choice made by the folks that package mailman for your system.  You'll
have to ask whomever that is for specific advice on getting the
Postfix integration working with the setup they've provided you.  I've
installed mailman from source and from Red Hat and Fedora packages and
not had much trouble getting that integration working smoothly.  YMMV.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Wrong group

[Todd Zullinger]

Ralph Utbult wrote:
> I run mailman with Postfix. Have MTA='Postfix' and have run
> check_perm a number of times, with -f
> How do I tweak the mail server (a.k..a Postfix) to run the script as
> group "mail"?

What are the permissions and owner/group for the mailman aliases file?
Postfix will execute the mailman wrapper as the group that the aliases
file belongs to, so you should be able to fix this by changing that
group to mail instead of mailman.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder

[Todd Zullinger]

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Todd Zullinger writes:
> 
> > Nothing wrong with that.  It's why open source is so nice.  I have
> > the choice to find vendors and projects that share more of my
> > values than others may.  If FHS compliance is really important to
> > you, you'll like the Red Hat mailman packages.
> 
> The problem is that most of the people who get referred to the "not
> our job, mon" FAQs chose Red Hat or Apple not for FHS compliance,
> but for turnkey installation convenience and system integration.

True.  Many times those folks are in over their head trying to
configure an MTA, web server, and tuning mailman.  They'd probably be
better off reading up on their vendors package management system so
that when someone here asked where the init script was, they could
find it.  :)

> If that fails, it's the vendor's responsibility, and the vendor is
> in the best position to answer questions.
> 
> I think it's important to insist on that point.

But to what extent?  That's the point I was trying to get at in my
original reply.  The extreme is that there should be a FAQ and maybe
even a section in the list welcome that says, "Use anything but
mailman built from source?  Don't ask questions here, ask your
vendor."  I don't believe that anyone here is in favor of that.

I agree that if someone comes here with questions that are obviously
very dependent on some customization that their vendor has made that
they should be directed to check with the vendor.  (Same goes for
users who need more basic help learning to use their OS of choice.)
But many, if not most, questions from users who are using a Red Hat or
even Apple package don't fall into that category, IMO.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder

[Todd Zullinger]

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 10:20 PM -0500 12/14/06, Todd Zullinger wrote:
> 
>>  But what value would MacOSX specific integrations be to the
>>  Mailman project?
> 
> Well, if they fed their changes back to us, that would allow us to
> incorporate that into future versions of the software, which would
> then be trivially easy for the vendor to upgrade to.  Apple would no
> longer have to maintain their own proprietary modified version.

It seems like that'd get to be a lot of work maintaining vendor
specific integrations.

> So, yes -- I think that there is a very strong benefit to the
> vendor, if they contribute their code back to the project.

Code is one thing, vendor specific integration is another.

> If there are things that need to be done to get Mailman to fit
> better into the FHS, and they aren't just the minimum changes hacked
> in but are appropriately and fully integrated into the software, I
> see no reason who those contributions would not be warmly welcomed.

They're part of the design goals for MM3.  I'm not sure what the
status is for 2.2 and I wasn't able to find any hits for FHS on
wiki.list.org, but I may very well be doing something completely wrong
there. :)

I don't think John's changes were of the hacked in variety, but the
changes are enough that they haven't been integrated into the current
2.1 branch, though the patch was submitted in 10/2004.  I think it's
simply a case where those changes were very important to Red Hat (in
that FHS compliance helped with other distro issues like integrating
SELinux access controls) but they weren't important enough to the
broader community of Mailman contributors to warrant making the
changes in the 2.1 branch.

Nothing wrong with that.  It's why open source is so nice.  I have the
choice to find vendors and projects that share more of my values than
others may.  If FHS compliance is really important to you, you'll like
the Red Hat mailman packages.  If you prefer simplicity and less
scattering of your files, the stock mailman install will suit you
better.

John's message and patch are in the mailman-developers archives here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers@python.org/msg08110.html

> Unfortunately, a lot of the changes most people submit are of the 
> hackish variety.

That sounds like a good reason not to ache for too many more to me,
especially if they're just vendor specific tweaks. ;)

>>  To me it makes a difference what sort of modifications you're
>>  talking about.  Most of the modifications in this thread and
>>  similar threads deal with changes a vendor or distro make to
>>  integrate mailman into their specific way of doing things.  And I
>>  think those changes aren't likely to be useful to the project as a
>>  whole.  So that's the part where I think it's unfair to criticize
>>  vendors and distros over.
> 
> Actually, I think it's just as valuable for a vendor to contribute
> those changes back to us as ones that actually have to do with core
> functionality.
> 
> This way, when someone comes to us with a problem on platform Y, we
> can look into the code and see where platform Y puts things, and we
> can give them a straight answer as to where the log files are, where
> the commands are, etc  Otherwise, our only option is to say that
> the Mailman-standard location for a specific file is mumblefrotz,
> and that it's up to the questioner to figure out what this means for
> their platform.

Well, many of the changes that are made to the way mailman is
installed aren't really in a format that a vendor or a distro can send
to the Mailman project as a patch.  These changes may be made in an
rpm specfile or a debian control file or countless other distro and
vendor specific methods.  Being inundated with all of that doesn't
help to support users better, IMO.

What helps is having people on the lists that know something about the
various distro and vendor packages that can point out where something
is to a new poster.  Having used Red Hat systems for a number of
years, I'll sometimes chime in when someone posts and says they have
mailman-2.1.5-35 on Fedora or something like that, recognizing that
they've got mailman installed via rpm.  To help someone find out where
mailman's parts are installed requires knowing a little about the
package management system - unless mailman started shipping with a
script in a standard path that you could point to and say, run
"mailman_where_are_my_parts" or something. :)

>>  My point mainly is that it sometimes comes across that vendors/distros
>>  who install mailman and add to or change it to integrate it into their
>>  system gets painted as doing something wrong.
> 
> When they do that 

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder

[Todd Zullinger]

Brad Knowles wrote:
> Even if they have made the source code available for everything 
> they've done with regards to Mailman (which includes all their 
> proprietary management tools), this is not the same thing as 
> contributing that code back to the Mailman project.

But what value would MacOSX specific integrations be to the Mailman
project?  I think that they'd likely be of limited value.  Just as
Debian or Red Hat specific changes are.  I know that John Dennis of
Red Hat contributed the changes Red Hat made to make mailman fit in
better with the FHS.  But even those changes are not accepted and they
are far more likely to be of general use than a Mac OSX service manage
script.  (I'm not arguing that they should have been, just using it as
an example.)

If a vendor make changes to the functionality that improve upon things
in Mailman, they yes, those changes would be great to see merged back
in and it's good to chide those that don't do so.  I am not aware that
those are the sort of changes anyone has said Apple's made.

ISTM that often when a vendor makes such changes, they make them
without the flexibility that would be needed to get them into the main
code base.  For example, cPanel has patched mailman to allow for lists
of the same name and a different domain name within a single mailman
install.  But they have done it in a rather hacky and inelegant way so
it's doubtful that even if they sent a patch to the developers list
that it'd get accepted.  It's only partially baked. :)

> Same any other group that takes our code and makes modifications to 
> it -- even if they make all their source code publicly available, 
> that's not the same thing as contributing it back to the Mailman 
> project.

To me it makes a difference what sort of modifications you're talking
about.  Most of the modifications in this thread and similar threads
deal with changes a vendor or distro make to integrate mailman into
their specific way of doing things.  And I think those changes aren't
likely to be useful to the project as a whole.  So that's the part
where I think it's unfair to criticize vendors and distros over.

Obviously, those changes do impact the ability of folks here to offer
help to those who ask for it.  It is a good thing to remind those
posters that they should check in with their vendor/distro to ensure
that the problems they're having aren't vendor/distro specific.  This
is somewhat akin to the need to ask a poster where they installed
mailman before anyone here can say "run this" or "edit that."

> Whereas I was an Apple fan from 1982, back in the original Apple ][ 
> days, and before the introduction of the 16K language card, the Apple 
> II+, the Apple IIe, the Apple //c, or any other more recent Apple 
> product.  I've been a MacFanatic since December of 1983 when I saw an 
> early prototype behind closed doors.  I've been a Mac owner since the 
> day when I bought a Mac SE -- before the internal hard drive model 
> was available.

I certainly won't argue that you've got me handily beat in terms of
experience and breadth of exposure to various systems.  :-)

My point mainly is that it sometimes comes across that vendors/distros
who install mailman and add to or change it to integrate it into their
system gets painted as doing something wrong.  I don't think that's
the intent, but I felt it worth mentioning and pointing to the Apple
code.  For anyone interested in checking specifically what Apple has
changed about the Mailman code, it's there.

Ideally a few Apple users would hang out on this list and could help
to guide those who are asking for assistance and using the Apple
installed Mailman.  In that way, we'd all learn a little more about
how to solve people's problems with Mailman.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder

[Todd Zullinger]

Brad Knowles wrote:
> We can tell you what the Mailman-standard was is to start them, but
> Apple has created their own code to manage this aspect of Mailman
> operations and they haven't shared that with us.

Apple does provide the source code for their mailman packages.  You
can browse it here:

http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/Current/mailman-117/

And download a tarball of that stuff:

http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/tarballs/other/mailman-117.tar.gz

AFAICT, the -117 is an Apple internal number.  Browsing the full list
shows similar, non-upstream numbers for many other packages.

The full list of open source code for Mac OS X 10.4.8 for PPC is at:

http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/Current/

So, while it seems fair to say that many of the very knowledgeable
folks here don't know the specifics of the Apple packaged mailman, it
doesn't seem quite as fair to say that Apple hasn't shared their
changes.  They are available for anyone to download and check out.

Compare that to cPanel where the best you find if you're not a
customer is a half-backed and outdated patch (which I was provided
only after persistent requests).

Disclaimer: I don't know anything about the Apple packages and the
only Apple product I own is an iPod. :)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue

[Todd Zullinger]

I wrote:
> Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
[...]
>> But as to the default charset is 'us-ascii' problem, if we put the
>> part together the parts, some language text (like japanese) become
>> irreversibly unreadable.  It is safe to keep it in a separate file
>> if you can't archive the whole message in multipart like in
>> Pipermail.
> 
> Okay, that's understandable.

Just another thought (because I realize now that I don't understand
this as well as I thought at first :)...

Are you saying there are messages which would lack a charset in a
content-type header and include Japanese text?  I wouldn't think they
would be valid if they didn't.  But I may not understand the types of
message structures you mean.

If the email parsing were to assume that lacking a content-type header
the part should be assumed to be text/plain and us-ascii, would this
break valid messages or only invalid ones (not that invalid ones could
necessarily be ignored, particularly if they were a significant
portion of the messages seen in reality :).

I'd be grateful if you could enlighten me on this.

Thanks,

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Re: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue

[Todd Zullinger]

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> I'm OK with changing the recomposing part in Scrubber.py:
> 
> if not part or part.is_multipart():
>  continue
> 
> to
> 
> if part.is_multipart():
>  continue
> 
> It looks like the email package is more robust than it was when the
> bug report was issued and the Scrubber code was patched.

Yay for increased robustness! :)

The Mailman README still says the base Python requirement is 2.1.3 or
above.  I saw in the comments of bug 1099138 that email 2.5 could
still produce None payloads.  Does that mean it's only save to omit
the "not part" test if the site's python install carries email 3?

> But as to the default charset is 'us-ascii' problem, if we put the part 
> together the parts, some language text (like japanese) become 
> irreversibly unreadable.  It is safe to keep it in a separate file if 
> you can't archive the whole message in multipart like in Pipermail.

Okay, that's understandable.

> Additionally, the diff file which was said to be lost in the first
> post is in:
> http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/attachments/20061207/6bd11edc/attachment.diff
> I believe the folks in gnupg.org can fix the reference in the
> pipermail archive by fixing the PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py and
> re-generating the archive by bin/arch --wipe command.

Yeah, there are a few issues with some of the list or site settings
there.  I will mention this to the list/site owner (who are both
pretty much just Werner - he's a very busy fellow!) and offer any help
I can to get that stuff straightened out.

Having the diff available that way would be better than nothing.
Though it still seems less than optimal to scrub it and make it an
attachment rather than display it inline like the content-disposition
header requests as it does seem to be quite valid by the RFC.

On the other hand, it might be easier to verify the sig if the diff
file is linked and downloaded so I should be careful what I wish for
here.  :)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue

[Todd Zullinger]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Todd Zullinger wrote:
[...]
>>Poking in the email package (on python 2.4.4) shows:
>>
>>def get_content_charset(self, failobj=None):
>>"""Return the charset parameter of the Content-Type header.
>>
>>The returned string is always coerced to lower case.  If there is no
>>Content-Type header, or if that header has no charset parameter,
>>failobj is returned.
>>"""
>>
>>This seems to violate section 5.2 of RFC 2045 which says parts
>>lacking a Content-type header should be assumed to be text/plain
>>with a charset of us-ascii.  The get_content_type method in
>>email.Message does mention RFC 2045 and uses text/plain if the
>>content-type is invalid.
> 
> It does seem inconsistent, but I don't think we can call it a
> violation of the RFC yet, it depends on what the caller does with
> it.

You're correct that violate is probably the wrong word.  It doesn't
make the assumption the RFC calls for, but it does allow the user to
change that.  I imagine that the code is written the way it is due to
the types of inconsistencies and flagrant violations one sees in the
reality of MIME parts.  If only it were simple enough to just write to
the standard and have things just work. :)

>>Would it be appropriate to set failobj="us-ascii" when calling this
>>method in Scrubber.py?
> 
> It might be, but I'd like to hear from Tokio first.
>
> Clearly this was considered at one point as a specific case and
> message exist for it where it would have been simpler to just assume
> it is us-ascii. Thus, I think there must be messages in the wild
> with parts with unspecified character sets that aren't us-ascii.

That reminds me, I looked at bug 1099138 to see if there was a test
case message that I could use to ensure any changes I made didn't
cause a regression.  Would it be good to have more test case messages
around that could be checked whenever stuff like this comes up?  That
way when something is changed to fix one issue it can be checked
against the previous messages to ensure it doesn't break them.  I was
envisioning something like a dir correlating to the bug id that
contained messages which triggered it.  There are some in the tests/
dir, but not a lot it seems.

Or is that a lot more work than it's worth?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue

[Todd Zullinger]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> In another reply, I suggested a simpler change

Yeah, I should have just waited a little longer before posting a
half-baked diff.  :-)

> In order to fix the bug we really only need to skip parts with payload
> = None so if we want to keep the 'empty' part, the fix should be
> 
> --- Scrubber.py~2006-10-01 16:28:57.0 -0400
> +++ Scrubber.py 2006-12-09 11:41:25.0 -0500
> @@ -334,7 +334,7 @@
>  text = []
>  for part in msg.walk():
>  # TK: bug-id 1099138 and multipart
> -if not part or part.is_multipart():
> +if part.get_payload() == None or part.is_multipart():
>  continue
>  # All parts should be scrubbed to text/plain by now.
>  partctype = part.get_content_type()

That looks nice.  As Tokio has said since, the email package is
improved now and it may not even be necessary to test the get_payload
output.  That's up to you guys though, you've seen far more odd things
people try to archive than I want to see. :)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue

[Todd Zullinger]

Related to the second part of Werner's message being scrubbed with the
message:

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...

Poking in the email package (on python 2.4.4) shows:

def get_content_charset(self, failobj=None):
"""Return the charset parameter of the Content-Type header.

The returned string is always coerced to lower case.  If there is no
Content-Type header, or if that header has no charset parameter,
failobj is returned.
"""

This seems to violate section 5.2 of RFC 2045 which says parts lacking
a Content-type header should be assumed to be text/plain with a
charset of us-ascii.  The get_content_type method in email.Message
does mention RFC 2045 and uses text/plain if the content-type is
invalid.  Would it be appropriate to set failobj="us-ascii" when
calling this method in Scrubber.py?

BTW, if it's easier for you guys to track this in bugzilla, let me
know and I'll file on one SF.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue

[Todd Zullinger]

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> It looks like the problem is something to do with email package
> behavior.  Here is a test code to reproduce the problem:

That's neat.  I like how you can do

if not p:
print p

and it'll print out "A message without header".  :)

Would an (ugly, amateurish) work-around like the following be a start?
I don't know what sort of test message would trigger bug 1099138 so I
didn't test for that case to see that this wouldn't be a regression.
Also, this only gets the first message part from Werner's message to
show up in the archives, the second part is still scrubbed, but at
least there is a link to download it.

--- Scrubber.py~2006-10-01 16:28:57.0 -0400
+++ Scrubber.py 2006-12-09 11:41:25.0 -0500
@@ -334,7 +334,12 @@
 text = []
 for part in msg.walk():
 # TK: bug-id 1099138 and multipart
-if not part or part.is_multipart():
+if not part:
+try:
+part.as_string()
+except:
+continue
+elif part.is_multipart():
 continue
 # All parts should be scrubbed to text/plain by now.
 partctype = part.get_content_type()

Thanks Mark and Tokio for digging into this.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue

[Todd Zullinger]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> It shouldn't be a content filtering issue. If a part is missing a
> Content-Type: header, the message methods get_content_type() and
> get_content_maintype() which are used by MimeDel.py (content
> filtering) return the default types which are text/plain and text
> except for subparts of multipart/digest when they are message/rfc822
> and message.

Okay, good to know.

> I can't duplicate this.

It's quite possible this is something that's tickled by the way Gnus
creates the message.  I know mutt doesn't create the sort of messages
that trigger this either.

> Can you just send me the original message that has parts lost?

Attached is the original message from the list mbox and one that I
munged up to included a content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii.

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From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Dec 07 19:26:34 2006
Received: from kerckhoffs.g10code.com ([217.69.77.222])
by trithemius.gnupg.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50 #1 (Debian))
id 1GsNx4-0008G7-A7 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:26:34 +0100
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Received: from wk by localhost with local (Exim 4.62 #1 (Debian))
id 1GsNsD-0001gg-RX
for ; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:21:33 +0100
From: Werner Koch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
Subject: Signed patch against 2.0.1
Organisation: g10 Code GmbH
OpenPGP: id=5B0358A2; url=finger:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mail-Followup-To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:21:33 +0100
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;

boundary="=KGB-Sundevil-gamma-Skipjack-government-Vince-Foster-Treasury-bce-S-B"
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on 
trithemius.gnupg.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=ham 
version=3.0.3
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X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 18:27:13 -
Content-Length: 8376
Lines: 294

--=KGB-Sundevil-gamma-Skipjack-government-Vince-Foster-Treasury-bce-S-B

Hi!

Here comes a signed patch against 2.0.1 for those who care to verify
signatures ;-).


Shalom-Salam,

   Werner


--=KGB-Sundevil-gamma-Skipjack-government-Vince-Foster-Treasury-bce-S-B
Content-Disposition: inline; filename=filter-context-20-small.diff
Content-Description: Patch against 2.0.1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message

This is a patch against GnuPG 2.0.1. Change the directory to g10/ and
apply this patch.

2006-12-02  Werner Koch  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* encr-data.c: Allocate DFX context on the heap and not on the
stack.  Changes at several places.  Fixes CVE-2006-6235.


Index: encr-data.c
===
--- encr-data.c (revision 4352)
+++ encr-data.c (working copy)
@@ -39,16 +39,37 @@
 static int decode_filter ( void *opaque, int control, IOBUF a,
byte *buf, size_t *ret_len);
 
-typedef struct 
+typedef struct decode_filter_context_s
 {
   gcry_cipher_hd_t cipher_hd;
   gcry_md_hd_t mdc_hash;
   char defer[22];
   int  defer_filled;
   int  eof_seen;
-} decode_filter_ctx_t;
+  int  refcount;
+} *decode_filter_ctx_t;
 
 
+/* Helper to release the decode context.  */
+static void
+release_dfx_context (decode_filter_ctx_t dfx)
+{
+  if (!dfx)
+return;
+
+  assert (dfx->refcount);
+  if ( !--dfx->refcount )
+{
+  gcry_cipher_close (dfx->cipher_hd);
+  dfx->cipher_hd = NULL;
+  gcry_md_close (dfx->mdc_hash);
+  dfx->mdc_hash = NULL;
+  xfree (dfx);
+}
+}
+
+
+
 /
  * Decrypt the data, specified by ED with the key DEK.
  */
@@ -62,7 +83,11 @@
   unsigned blocksize;
   unsigned nprefix;
   
-  memset( &dfx, 0, sizeof dfx );
+  dfx = xtrycalloc (1, sizeof *dfx);
+  if (!dfx)
+return gpg_error_from_syserror ();
+  dfx->refcount = 1;
+
   if ( opt.verbose && !dek->algo_info_printed )
 {
   const char *s = gcry_cipher_algo_name (dek->algo);
@@ -77,20 +102,20 @@
 goto leave;
   blocksize = gcry_cipher_get_algo_blklen (dek->algo);
   if ( !blocksize || blocksize > 16 )
-log_fatal("unsupported bl

Re: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue

[Todd Zullinger]

Hi Mark,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> There seems to be another issue in that there is no 'link' to the
> scrubbed part, just a relative URL which doesn't work.

Yes, there are other issues with the configuration there.  Click on
the list info link and then follow that to the archives.  You get into
the top level of the public archive dir, seeing a listing of all of
the lists and list mboxes.

However, I created a fresh list on my system to see whether this was a
list configuration issue or not and it's reproduceable using a default
list setup.  I initially thought it must be some over-agressive
content filtering, but after having it work on a virgin list I don't
think that's the case.  There may still be a way to configure the
content filtering to work around this, but I'm not familiar enough
with the various possibilities to know that.

> You are correct in your assessment of why the part is scrubbed in
> the first place. Also, it seems that according to sec 5.2 of RFC
> 2045 we could assume 'us-ascii', but I expect this may cause other
> problems with non-compliant MUAs. Tokio is responsible for a lot of
> scrubber code, and he has a lot of experience with Japanese so I
> suspect there is a reason we do it this way.

I was guessing this might be the case as well.  Hopefully Tokio or
someone else who's intimate with the code can comment on whether
that's the case or not.  It always sucks when the choice is either not
conform to a standard or not work properly in the real world.  I don't
envy the choices you guys have to make when writing email parsing
code.  :)

If it came to it, perhaps there could be an option to be strict about
the parsing for those that would rather conform than be able to handle
all of the junk that people send?  I tend to go this direction when I
configure my MTA's, but I realize this isn't always a viable choice
for others.

> It seems that a good part of the problem in the above referenced
> archive is that the scrubbed attachment is not given a clickable
> link, and in fact the relative path given doesn't even work. I think
> at least part of this must be specific to this site - perhaps a
> (intentionally?) bad value for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py.

I don't think it's related.  My test list created a proper link to the
second message part, but it still scrubbed both mime parts.  If I
added a content-disposition: inline header to the first part, then it
was similarly scrubbed and a link inserted.  Without that header, the
part just disappeared completely.

I can send you config_list output for the test list if you like, but
there weren't any changes made to the config so it should be nothing
but Mailman default.  I don't know what OS the real gnupg-users list
runs on, but my test list was created on Fedora Core 6, using the
packaged mailman rpm there (version 2.1.9).  I don't think there are
significant deviations from Mailman's source other than the FHS patch
that they apply.  If you think it's relevant, I can install from
source and test as well.

Thanks,

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[Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue

[Todd Zullinger]

In honor of recent discussions on pipermail, I think I've found
another issue with archiving, though this seems to be in
Mailman.Scrubber.

In a few recent posts to the GnuPG lists, Werner Koch sent along some
signed patches fixing issues in the gpg code.  Unfortunately, the
archives ate his posts[1] so we can't point others to the patches in the
archives as nicely as one would like.

It seems that the problem is that both message parts lack a
"Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii" header and the first part
also lacks a "Content-disposition: inline" header.  If I edit the raw
message to include a "Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii"
header for each mime part, it passes the scrubber as is archived
properly.

From my limited reading of RFC 2045[2], it seems that a mime part
without a content-type header should be assumed to be text/plain;
charset=us-ascii.  Is the scrubber wrong to not assume this or are
there too many issues with making this (apparently quite standards
conformant) assumption?

[1] http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2006-December/029976.html
[2] http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2045.txt

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)

[Todd Zullinger]

Paul Tomblin wrote:
> Oh right, now I get it.  I told you I didn't know Python, but I
> should have been able to figure that
> def __init__(self, outfp, mangle_from_=True, maxheaderlen=78):
> meant that it defaulted to True in Generator.py so didn't need to be
> changed in Mailman.

:-)

I actually trusted the docs (which I probably shouldn't do).  But
you're right, the __init__ line confirms the default setting for
mangle_from.

>> In that case, shouldn't any message that reaches mailman with an
>> unescaped From_ line in the body already be handled properly?  It
>> seems like something else must be borked.  That or all of the
>> messages in a list mbox that contain unescaped From_ lines got
>> there from really old versions of Mailman/python.
> 
> That is distinctly possible.  The archives in question go back to
> 1998.  I didn't keep track of when the *last* unescaped From_ line
> was put in the archives.

It still sucks that you have to muck around with the mboxes to get
pipermail to archive them properly.  I feel your pain.  I am currently
trying to get another lists archives into better shape and have run
into the same issue.

I'm seriously lacking in the skill to fix pipermail or I'd take Barry
up on trying to fix it.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)

[Todd Zullinger]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Paul Tomblin wrote:
> 
>>Quoting Barry Warsaw ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
>>> 
>>> It already does escape From lines in the body of the message.  It
>>> does this by way of the email package's Generator class, which is
>>> instantiated with mangle_from_=True.
>>
>>Must be a newer version than the one in Debian stable.   I grepped
>>for "mangle" in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/*, and didn't find it.  The
>>parameter does appear in /usr/lib/python2.3/email/Generator.py, but
>>since I don't know python I don't know how to pass it to it.  I'm
>>guessing it has something to do with changing the "g =
>>Generator(fp)" and "g = Generator(outfp)" lines in
>>Mailman/ListAdmin.py or more likely the "g = Generator(self.fp)"
>>line in Mailman/Mailbox.py?  Is it as simple as changing that last
>>one to "g = Generator(self.fp,mangle_from_=True)"?
> 
> 
> Yes it is.
> 
> And I think Barry may have misspoken as I don't think that change is
> in the SVN trunk or Release_2_1-maint branch.

According to the docs for email.Generator, mangle_from defaults to
True and has since at least python 2.3.  So setting it shouldn't be
needed AFAICS.

In that case, shouldn't any message that reaches mailman with an
unescaped From_ line in the body already be handled properly?  It
seems like something else must be borked.  That or all of the messages
in a list mbox that contain unescaped From_ lines got there from
really old versions of Mailman/python.

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candy bar.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] change thread list most recent to top

[Todd Zullinger]

Barry R Cisna wrote:
> Thanks for the response. Want I m wanting to do is show recent
> threads,,the same as the other mailman list lines up most recent
> posts at the top such as here:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

I don't think that mail-archive.com uses pipermail as it's archiver.

I do think that the redhat.com lists do though.  You might ask on one
of those lists if anyone who has helped setup the list server can give
you tips (or patches) on achieving that setup.

Here's an example of the setup on redhat.com lists for those who
aren't familiar with them:

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-laptop-list/2006-December/thread.html

Certainly looks like pipermail, doesn't it?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages

[Todd Zullinger]

Paul Tomblin wrote:
> Quoting Mark Sapiro ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
[...]
>> You can remove all messages from a list's pipermail archive by
>> 
>> bin/arch --wipe listname /dev/null
> 
> What, "rm -rf" not good enough for you?

:-)

You do have to know the location of the list archives with rm whereas
with bin/arch you don't.  And if you put a typo into bin/arch it can
at worst wipe out the archives of the wrong list, not large chunks of
your file system.

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'Ohhh, chemical chance, chemical chance'
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Re: [Mailman-Users] invalid checksum while doing portinstall

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have a problem installing mailman under FreeBSD 6.1. When I go to ports 
> to install mailman, it gives me an error message about invalid checksum.
> 
> Distinfo file shows the following):
> 
> MD5 (mailman/mailman-2.1.9rc1.tgz) = 26c94b95b0ce3b4403314dbc900f672d
> SHA256 (mailman/mailman-2.1.9rc1.tgz) = 
> 941f255d99ebbfa7a351dfa52c43684598d78afc
> 21204fa240c8bb51a3175f46
> SIZE (mailman/mailman-2.1.9rc1.tgz) = 7851444

This is a problem with your FreeBSD ports system, not with Mailman.
You're more likely to get a quick answer from one of the FreeBSD
lists[1].

[1] http://www.freebsd.org/community/mailinglists.html

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==
No sense being pessimistic, it probably wouldn't work anyway

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Re: [Mailman-Users] a few details

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Matt Herzog wrote:
> When I try try to accept an invitation to a group I get this bounce message:
> 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Command died with status 2:
> "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mung". Command
> output: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper
> script to be executed as group "guest", but the system's mail
> server executed the mail script as group "mailman".  Try
> tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "guest", or
> re-run configure,  providing the command line option
> `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.

You're using postfix, correct?  Do you have MTA='Postfix' in
mm_cfg.py?  If not, that's the best way to integrate mailman and
postfix, IMO.  Once that's done, you should check that the permissions
are correct for the alias files ($PREFIX/data/aliases{,.db}).  They
should be owner and group mailman and group writable.

See the mailman installation manual for more details:

http://mailman.sourceforge.net/mailman-install/node13.html

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Good judgment comes with experience.  Unfortunately, the experience
usually comes from bad judgment.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hijacking threads and netiquette (was: e: Obscure addresses problem)

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> If you want to take a rules-lawyer approach and use it to resist any
> suggestion of change, be my guest.  So far as I know, what's at
> issue here is the question of interoperability in an area where
> there are no formal standards in play.  So, from a rules-lawyer
> point of view, clearly nobody is at fault.

No, firefox is at fault.  They save the password as feature and then
fail to re-use it when it would be useful.  Mailman has no part in
this at all and asking anyone that develops a web site to change their
code to suit the arbitrary scheme a browser uses to save passwords is
pointless.  If there were some sort of RFC that outlined how such a
process should work, then it'd be fairly simple to change the mailman
html output to meet it.  Without that, whose arbitrary scheme would
mailman use?  Making one work may break another and lead to more user
coming here asking why their favorite broswer's unique scheme for
recognizing a pasword to save didn't work.

> From a real-world point of view, there's still a problem.

Yep.  A firefox problem.

> Given that Firefox was picking up the password, but was NOT offering
> it back on later visits, I'll accept the argument that the basic
> problem is really in Firefox.  Apparently so do they, and they've
> fixed it in an upcoming release, see my recent previous message.

Glad to hear it.

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==
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is
striking at the root.
-- Henry David Thoreau

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hijacking threads and netiquette (was: e: Obscure addresses problem)

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> It's an issue in the interaction of browsers and Mailman.  It could
> almost certainly be fixed by either side.  If you want to start a
> finger-pointing contest and say "not my problem" that's your
> privilege of course, but they can do so just as validly on the other
> side.
> 
> The schemes currently implemented in many browsers work with a huge
> array of sites out there, everything from ebay to amazon to
> sourceforge to slashdot to The New York Times, thousands and
> thousands of sites.
> 
> Unfortunately they do not seem to work with Mailman.
> 
> You can argue that everybody is wrong except Mailman, and all the
> browsers should change to support the way Mailman wants to do this
> (while, of course, not breaking any of the *other* sites they
> already work with).
> 
> If you want to argue that, please go ahead; there may be additional
> reasons I haven't yet seen or thought of why what Mailman does is so
> right that it's more important than whether it works with existing
> browsers, and so right that when we make the argument to the browser
> community they will all rush to fix the browsers.   That's entirely
> possible.
> 
> So, make the argument.

Perhaps you should first show how mailman is broken here.  If you're
claim is that all sites which have a password entry form need to use
both a username and password or that the password field needs to be
named password, then I'm just going to chuckle.

If there is something actually broken about the way that mailman's
admin page presents itself and makes it impossible for a sane browser
to save the password, then point it out explicitly.  References to any
related RFC or other standard specification would be a big plus.

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==
I've had a perfectly wonderful evening.  But this wasn't it.
-- Groucho Marx

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hijacking threads and netiquette (was: e: Obscure addresses problem)

[Todd Zullinger]

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David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> On 9/5/06, Todd Zullinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If firefox has profiles, they're not in the menu and not in the help
> (under that name).

I don't know the various ways to change the profiles in firefox, but
running the command line firefox -ProfileManager will open up the
profile manager.  The -P option will use the profile you specify.

But I think this is irrelavant after reading your text below...

> Try <http://lists.dragaera.info/admin.cgi/dragaera-dragaera.info>,
> put in an invalid password (unless you get *really* lucky guessing),
> and I don't expect your browser will offer it back to you when you
> come to try again; it doesn't for me.

Yeah, I didn't get luck on my first and only try.  Firefox did offer
to save the password, but it did not fill it in automatically for me
on return.  I am fairly sure that it used to, though I'm not positive
and I don't know whrn this might have changed.  It hasn't changed on
the mailman side very recently.

> I find I have mis-described the problem; Firefox *does* recognize
> the password and save it, I can see it in the list of saved
> passwords.  What it doesn't do is *offer it back* when I return to
> the page.  Same net result, I have to look it up and put it in each
> time, but different path to get there.

This is definitely a firefox bug, AFAIAK.  If Firefox is smart enough
to offer to save the password, then it needs to be smart enough to
fill it back in on return to the same page.  Unless someone in the
firefox camp can show that the spartan HTML generated on the mailman
admin logon page is just plain wrong, I can't see how changing it is a
problem that mailman should deal with.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief
in freedom itself.
-- Milton Friedman

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Hijacking threads and netiquette (was: e: Obscure addresses problem)

[Todd Zullinger]

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David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> I'm not convinced there's anything about this in the FAQ.
> 
> 4.65 is not about the issue I'm raising; that's about cookie issues,
> whereas my case is that the password field isn't recognized in the
> first place.

I've tested this on systems running both 2.1.5 and 2.1.8 and it works
fine for me with Firefox 1.5.0.6.  The admin login html hasn't changed
for any of those releases.  I don't see how this would be a mailman
issue.  Even if firefox failed to save the password for me as well,
I'd see that as a firefox problem.  The html that mailman uses for
that form is pretty basic, so firefox would have to be pretty broken
if it couldn't handle it.

Have you tried using another firefox profile (or from another machine
entirely) to verify that this isn't something specific to your firefox
config/system setup?

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Vote early and vote often.
-- Al Capone (1899-1947)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Postfix Question

[Todd Zullinger]

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Jason [WeatherServer] wrote:
> Thank you for the reply. At least some people are able to answer
> questions rather then replying with more then just read the FAQ's

You ask an off-topic question here and then you have the nerve to make
a remark like that directed at one of the more helpful people on the
list?  Wow.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Man was made at the end of the week's work when God was tired.
-- Mark Twain

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Some basic how-to questions

[Todd Zullinger]

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Ken Winter wrote:
> My host administrator says I have the privileges I need.  Indeed, I can get
> to /usr/local/mailman/ through a SSH shell.

Excellent.

> But, see, I'm more-or-less UNIX / LINUX ignorant, so I can't seem to
> get anything to happen from there.  Can you point me to some command
> line documentation that can get me through to where I can do the
> stuff I need to do?

Most of the command line tools are fairly straightforward and running
them without any options/arguments results in usage information.

The mailman FAQ and the archives of this list have examples and details
of how to use the tools to perform various tasks, searching those
would be a good place to start for general info on the mailman command
line tools.

Taking your original list of tasks but knowing now that you aren't
limited to the web interface, I'd answer a little differently...

> 1.  Delete an entire mailing list?

bin/rmlist would be the tool to use.  It's pretty simple in usage,
just pass it a listname to remove.  If you want to delete the list's
archives as well, use the -a option.

bin/rmlist -a testlist

> 2.  Clone the entire setup of a list, creating a new list with a
> different name but the same configuration?

That's a task for config_list.  The basic steps are

a) bin/newlist newlist (or use the web interface)
b) bin/config_list -o config oldlist
c) edit config, change any references to the old list to the newlist
c) bin/config_list -i config newlist

> 3.  Rename a list?

Renaming is a minor pain.  Perhaps it's best to search the archives.
I've done it but not often enough that I could give you the steps from
memory.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
It's not God. I'm down with God; it's the damn fan club that pisses me
off.
-- Dan Berger

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Some basic how-to questions

[Todd Zullinger]

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Ken Winter wrote:
> Using the Mailman web admin interface, can I / how can I:
> 
> 1.Delete an entire mailing list? 

By default you can't do this from the web interface.  If the site
admin puts OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = yes into mm_cfg.py,
then list owners can delete their own lists.

> 2.Clone the entire setup of a list, creating a new list with a
> different name but the same configuration? 

I don't think this is possible with the web interface.  The command
line provides a config_list tool that can be used to do this.  There
are also some scripts to drive the web interface that may be able to
do this, but I don't recall the location of those at the moment
(somewhere on starship.python.org).

> 3.Rename a list? 

Also not possible from the web interface AFAIK.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
So I don't get hurt?!  Thats the best you can come up with you
dull-witted termagant!
-- Stewie Griffin, on why he needs a car seat

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Re: [Mailman-Users] query re "message has implicitdestination"(devils advocate!)

[Todd Zullinger]

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Brad Knowles wrote:
> Looking at 
> ,
>  
> it looks like they got up to version 2.1.5, but again I'm still 
> trying to figure out what parts may have been modified by Apple.

I grabbed the source from:


http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/tarballs/other/mailman-117.tar.gz

which is linked from (among other places):

http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.4.7.x86/

The mailman sources are in the tarball in the mailman dir.  The diff
to that is here:

http://pobox.com/~tmz/mailman-apple.diff.bz2

There are other Apple specific things in the tarball, Makefile, init
script, etc, which are worth checking out to see how they package
Mailman and how that may affect those coming here for some help with
those Apple packages.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Conscience is what hurts when everything else feels so good.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] query re "message has implicit destination"(devils advocate!)

[Todd Zullinger]

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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm just concerned that sharing might not be the intention of the
> system owner.

No problem.  Sharing this source code is perfectly fine with the
system owner.  I know him well enough to know that implicitly.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Drugs may lead to nowhere, but at least it's the scenic route.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] query re "message has implicit destination"(devils advocate!)

[Todd Zullinger]

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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> You have to actually receive a distribution to have GPL rights.
> Merely having access to somebody else's copy is not enough.

The system owner most certainly allows me to access and use the source
that he was provided as part of the cPanel installation.  If you have
reason to believe that there are other factors which would prohibit
the system owner from sharing that source code, feel free to point
those out.  But of course, I've already posted the diff and don't plan
to retract it. ;)

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a
virtue.  Fleas are interested in dogs.
-- P.J. O'Rourke

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Re: [Mailman-Users] query re "message has implicit destination"(devils advocate!)

[Todd Zullinger]

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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> If you actually do have the right to do so, yes, please.

I do, AFAIK.  Mailman is GPL'd and I have legitimate root access on
that system so I have access to the source code.  AIUI, the GPL
doesn't permit them to restrict what I do with the source that I get.
So it's tough titties for cPanel if they don't like me sharing it with
the rest of the world. :)

The diff is rather large and messy.  The source dir on cpanel seems to
include a build dir with the mailman bin/ utils in it along with some
of the stuff from contrib and cron.  There are also various remnants
of the build process (config.status, Makefiles, etc) strewn about --
perhaps to discourage anyone from using the source easily. :)

In the interests of completeness, I've not excluded any of that from
the diff, so it's rather large (~ 7MB unzipped)!  This source came
from /usr/local/cpanel/src/3rdparty/gpl/mailman-2.1.7 on a cpanel
system.

The diff:

http://pobox.com/~tmz/mailman-2.1.7-cpanel.diff.bz2 (1.7MB)

Let me know if you want any other info from the cpanel system and I'll
do my best to get it for you.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
The only reason we still have elections in this country is to see if
the pollsters were right.
-- Ed Rollins

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Re: [Mailman-Users] query re "message has implicit destination"(devils advocate!)

[Todd Zullinger]

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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Has anybody at Mailman asked CPanel, Plesk, or Apple for source and
> been refused?  Or one of their customers, and been refused because
> they were under NDA?  If we haven't asked, how can we bitch?

I asked cPanel a few years ago.  I got the run-around and they closed
the support ticket 2 or 3 times without providing any source or diffs.
Only after persisting did they send me a link to a half-assed diff
that I know didn't match all that they changed.

I've since had the displeasure of working on a cPanel hosted system
and there is a source directory for mailman.  If anyone's really
curious, I'll diff it against whatever the official source release
they're claiming it is.

They may be honoring the letter of the license, but they deserve the
shit they get here for abusing the spirit of it so badly.  If I made
changes to Mailman that caused a regular stream of frequently asked
questions I'd fix the problems or get involved in helping answer them
just so I could sleep at night.  cPanel doesn't do that and they are
charging folks good money to package up free software.  That leaves a
bad taste in *my* mouth, and I'm not even a significant contributor to
Mailman.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
The more laws, the less justice.
-- Marcus Tullius Cicero "De Officiis", 44 B.C.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Contemplating new installation

[Todd Zullinger]

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Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 7:21 PM + 2006-07-26, Jon Loose wrote:
[...]
>>  Second, my previous install of mailman was 2.1.x running under
>>  /usr/local/mailman.  I note that the fedora installation already
>>  seems to have mailman files distributed around the filesystem.  Is
>>  there a standard installation now as part of fedora, and am I
>>  better to use this or stick with a fresh installation into
>>  /usr/local/mailman?
> 
> They've done whatever they've done and didn't ask for any
> involvement from us.

That doesn't seem entirely fair to the Red Hat/Fedora folks.  John
Dennis of Red Hat very clearly solicited comment on these changes on
mailman-developers back in Oct 2004 and submitted a patch as well[1].

I agree with pretty much everything else though. :-)

[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers@python.org/msg08110.html

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If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] GID mismatch with Postfix on Fedora Core 5 install of mailman RPM

[Todd Zullinger]

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Chris Lawson wrote:
> Please excuse what may well be an FAQ but I did search the list
> archive and couldn't get an answer.
> 
> I am running Postfix and Mailman on Fedora Core 5 system.
[...]
> I have a bunch of lists that *were* working under Sendmail, but now
> with Postfix, I get a GID mismatch error for the mail wrapper.
> 
> More specifically:
> 
>> Command output: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
>> wrapper script to be executed as group "mail", but the system's
>> mail server executed the mail script as group "nobody".  Try
>> tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mail", or re-
>> run configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail-
>> gid=nobody'. )
> 
> Is there a way of getting the RPM version of mailman to expect a
> different mail wrapper GID?

This isn't really an rpm issue.  It's a difference between sendmail
and postfix.  Postfix will execute the wrapper script using the group
of the alias file where the wrapper command is defined.

Are your list aliases kept in the system-wide alias file or in a
mailman-specific alias file?  I've used the postfix integration that
is built in to mailman for ages and find that it's very convenient.

See section "6.1.1 Integrating Postfix and Mailman" in the
installation manual for complete details.  The manual is available on
FC5 at:

/usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.8/admin/www/mailman-install/

> If I try to tweak the mail server (change main.cf to run as nobody)
> postfix fails. The process that's failing (local) already has the
> privileged flag set in master.cf.
> 
> What am I missing? Or do I have to delete the RPM install and
> install  from source --with-mail-gid=nobody?

No need to do that.  The rpm's should work.  I've used them
successfully.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Script problem

[Todd Zullinger]

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Jewel wrote:
> I am trying to write a script which will email me a list of all the 
> lists and their members.

The script below will only output a count of list members (that's what
the |wc -l does).

> I was able to find the following below but keep getting errors when
> I try and execute it.

What are the errors?

> I have made the file executable.

You'd also need to include a #!/path/to/your/shell at the top,
probably #!/bin/sh in this case.

>for i in `/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists -b`;
>do
>  j=`/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members $i |wc -l`
 ^^
Remove the |wc -l if you want to get the list members.  With the -l
option, wc will simply print the number of lines in the output it's
given.

I think this is more like what you're asking for:

#!/bin/sh

for list in `/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists -b`; do
echo "$list members:"
/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members "$list"
echo
done

You could also create a separate email for each list which might make
it easier to keep track of once it reached your mailbox.  There are
probably some scripts like this in the FAQ, and there are surely some
in the list archives.  Jon Carnes posted some way back, IIRC.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
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beer.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail directs to http instead of https?

[Todd Zullinger]

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Ryan Steele wrote:
> Todd Zullinger wrote:
[...]
>> If RedirectPermanent broke things horribly, it likely wouldn't be
>> in the FAQ.  It should only cause one redirection, from http to
>> https.
>>
>>   
> It doesn't break things horribly.  But, it can cause problems if it
> causes a redirection limits issue, which it frequently does.
> http://jessey.net/archive/2005/04/24/redirection-limit-exceeded/ is
> just an example of how it can cause issues.  I'd prefer not to run
> into them.

With your Apache properly configured, you won't run into them. :)

I'd certainly want to redirect users and admins to the SSL version of
the mailman pages so they aren't logging in via an unencrypted
channel.

>>> PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
[...]
> Ah, yes, I read your reply wrong.  the (hostname) and (listname) threw 
> me.  I was looking more for a 'https://%s/pipermail/%listsymbol' 
> response, though I'm not sure what symbol would go into representing the 
> listnames.

The value used above would be exactly what you'd use.  In python, the
%(hostname)s and %(listname)s will be expanded to the values of
hostname and listname.  Check out the current value for
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in Defaults.py.  Just copy it to mm_cfg.py and
change http to https.  Then regenerate your archives using the arch
command in ~mailman/bin/.

You said previously that fix_url.py didn't work for you.  There may be
some other things in mm_cfg.py that need to be set correctly for that
to do what you want.  If you post more details about what you have set
for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and any other hosts you've added via
add_virtualhost it might help someone here get you pointed in the
right direction.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
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premises
-- Samuel Butler

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail directs to http instead of https?

[Todd Zullinger]

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Ryan Steele wrote:
> I can't see having RedirectPermanent being a good solution...many
> servers limit the number of redirections, and I know that Firefox
> and IE will suffer from redirection limits as well...there is
> extensive documentation of this resulting from a simple Google
> search.

If RedirectPermanent broke things horribly, it likely wouldn't be in
the FAQ.  It should only cause one redirection, from http to https.

> Also, someone suggested:
> 
> Don't you also need to set PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL as well?
> 
> Something like this is what I've done in the past, but it's been a
> while since I setup an installation using SSL that had archiving
> enabled.
> 
> PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
> 
> 
> I would hope I wouldn't have to do that for every list.

This is a setting that goes into mm_cfg.py, so it's done once for the
whole mailman installation.  You would then regenerate the archives
for each list so that any links are correct in the archives.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
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-- Jeff Cooper, 1991

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail directs to http instead of https?

[Todd Zullinger]

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Patrick Bogen wrote:
> On 6/27/06, Ryan Steele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I have a peculiar problem.  An existing list I'm trying to repair has
>> problems accessing the archives.  The archives link changes the protocol
>> to http instead of keeping the https protocol the rest of Mailman uses.
>> I have the following alias and directory stanza in my Apache config file:
> 
> Have you followed the steps outlined in FAQ 4.27
> 
> ?

Don't you also need to set PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL as well?

Something like this is what I've done in the past, but it's been
a while since I  setup an installation using SSL that had archiving
enabled.

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

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ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
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-- Robert Frost

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings

[Todd Zullinger]

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Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I prefer however to think in terms of the RFEs on this which ask for
> various things from simply exposing the parameter in the web
> interface to providing a radio button selection (e.g. 20, 50, 100,
> all) on the pages to paginating without regard for the alphabet.
> 
> I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk
> size = 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two
> pages rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to
> find a particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member'
> function is probably better for this anyway.
> 
> Other thoughts?

I lean toward paginating without regard to the alphabet as well and
agree that finding a specific member is best done via the "find
member" search.

None of the lists I help manage are very large, all less than 2,000
members.  So those running larger lists may have good reasons for
preferring other defaults and options that I've never thought about.
And, of course, there are others that simply have different
preferences than I do even for the same size lists (or so I hear).

But it is a minor irritation every time I am in the web admin for a
list and just want to scan through it checking visually for things out
of the ordinary.  Fortunately, I have shell access (hell, root access)
everywhere I manage lists.  So I'm never unable to just open a
terminal and get the data I want.

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==
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may
be called.
-- John Stuart Mill

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Re: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list

[Todd Zullinger]

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ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
> I just moved an account from one server to another and then changed
> the domain name, for some reason the control panel (cPanel) hasnt
> changed the mailman domain name

Ahhh, the beauty of control panels. :)

> so i gone ahead and renamed the mailing list directory and the
> archive directory with the new domain name.  Now for some reason the
> confirmation email when you send a mail to the mailing list is
> showing the old domain name, how i could change it?

There is a script included with mailman called fix_url.py.  If you run
it without any arguments, it will give you usage instructions.  This
script is in the bin dir of the mailman install, which, if I recall
correctly, is something like /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman in
cpanel.

If you don't have shell access to the server, you'll need to ask
someone that does to do this for you.  You/they may find it helpful to
search the archives and FAQ for this list if the usage instructions
from fix_url.py aren't clear enough or don't work as expected.

One wrinkle that you may run into is that cpanel modifies mailman to
append the domain name to the list directory.  I'm not sure if that'll
affect the fix_url.py script or not.  If it doesn't work as the usage
examples show, the script might need patched.  I moved some lists from
one cpanel system to another a few years ago and I can't recall if
that was a problem or not.  I believe I had to manually change some
variables in the config.pck files.  I try to put any experiences I
have with cpanel behind me as quickly as possible.  Sorry for the hazy
and vague recollections. :)

Do take note of FAQ 6.11, Mailman and CPanel:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp

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It is easier to destroy an atomic nucleus than a prejudice.
 -- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archived Messages Not Saved

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Charles J. Hargrove wrote:
> I am using the FC5 Mailman package.  The archive files since the new
> build are being kept in /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/.

That's good.  What does

$ ls /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/$listname*

show?

Also, is SELinux running in enforcing mode?

> However, the /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf file shows it as:
> Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
>
> Where can I find where it is being forced to save it into private?

That's as it should be.  The public directory will contain symlinks to
the private dir for lists that are public.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity.
-- Hanlon's Razor

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkR3jDYmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1pDfwCg2r9bO9v7acUpHBmFxzE+WQaq+LwAnj49wCzn
3ok/J6pNLx+gnyJh1AI3
=0oz9
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archived Messages Not Saved

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Charles J. Hargrove wrote:
> I recently had to rebuild my server after a long run of 6 years.
> The drive that contained the Mailman archives, mailing lists, member
> records, etc was mounted as the secondary drive so that I would not
> lose the info.  The server was rebuilt with Fedora Core 5 and the
> latest versions of the rest of the software (Mailman, Sendmail,
> Postfix, Squirrelmail, etc).
> 
> Everything is working now as far as the mailing lists and membership
> records.  However, none of the messages are being archived,
> evethough the flags on the admin page are set to allow archiving.
> Any ideas where I should be looking to correct this problem.

Are you using the FC5 mailman package or did you build it from source?
The locations of the directories are changed in the FC package.  Is it
possible that your apache setup is looking in the wrong place for the
archives?

Are the archive mboxes getting created?  On a standard source install
they should be at:

$prefix/archives/private/$listname.mbox/$listname.mbox

The FC5 package has them at:

/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/$listname.mbox/$listname.mbox

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
The average woman would rather be beautiful than smart because the
average man can see better than he can think.
--Unknown

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkR3TK4mGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1qllQCeMJ0NXyxqliZ5v9yljlA9+nGhmhgAoOr4mtRn
iXKUO761odcHUfZ5+bXI
=uJtu
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Permissions on public archives (apache 403)

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Michael Berkowski wrote:
>> What are the permissions on /var/lib/mailman? Are you running
>> SeLinux or any other 'extra' access controls?
>
> SELinux is running and /var/lib/mailman looks like:
> drwxrwsr-x   9 mailman mailman 4096 Apr 17 15:17 mailman

With SELinux, you also often want to see the security context.  The -Z
option to ls does this.  On my FC5 system, /var/lib/mailman has:

drwxrwsr-x  root mailman  system_u:object_r:mailman_data_t /var/lib/mailman/

And to check if SELinux is the reason you're getting errors, you need
to look in /var/log/messages (or /var/log/audit/audit.log if the audit
daemon is installed)

Of course, reading the avc denial messages is the kind of black voodoo
that makes Apache's mod_rewrite look like it was written for 5 year
olds. :)

When I'm in doubt, I turn off SELinux and try the action I was having
problems with.  If it works you found you problem.  From there you'd
have to modify the SELinux policy or file a bug to have that done.
I've only just started toying with it, so I'm a long way from knowing
how to modify policy properly.  Anyway, you can use setenforce 0 to
turn off selinux temporarily if you want to check that.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Ever notice that even the busiest people are never too busy to tell
you just how busy they are?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkR3QvsmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1rf+ACgvTMR85JnvbYhZpnhSWMP+UewaGcAn0Uz1PVl
z90LZ9stVkgvNgjlhz/S
=5Hz2
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Re: [Mailman-Users] follow up: help request: new 1300 member list results inmostly bounces

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Nathan wrote:
> Below is the response from the host. They seem to feel it's all on
> the recipient's end. Does this make sense? or is it passing the
> buck?
[...]
> They suggest sending out 10-15 emails at a time - is there a way to
> set mailman up to do this? (and would there be a point?)

The SMTP_MAX_RCPTS setting can control the number of emails sent at a
time.  Others with more experience can comment on the worth of doing
this.

>> There is a marker in the email that marks it as bulk. Most servers
>> including Globaltaps often rejects those emails to protect
>> their/our customers from spam.  Comcast and aol also do the same
>> thing.

I have a Comcast address and I receive a lot of mail from mailman run
lists which contain the Precedence: bulk header.  If Globaltap is
saying that most servers reject mail with those headers I think
they're wrong on that.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
It was probably drugs more than anything else that made me a
Libertarian.
-- John Gilmore

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkR2e7UmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1oALwCgoLMZtPUAQB4pFSGhynqJTTHCT2oAoIyXF6/b
0HHaw7ka4IOftYeA/6fD
=9eSq
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Re: [Mailman-Users] FW: Install issues

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Defryn, Guy wrote:
> Doh! After rebooting I did not start the processes again 
> Seems to work now

Cool.

If you want to be sure the services start at each boot on a RH/Fedora
system, use chkconfig to turn them on.  For postfix and mailman:

# chkconfig postfix on
# chkconfig mailman on

(Sorry if that's glaringly obvious already. :)

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Plagiarism saves time.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkR2ciwmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1plcQCg8T+mtUJKp+drYACcE01whMplA0AAoIoxSCKJ
aX0smlkQkRP/GNfe0IIO
=BNCQ
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Re: [Mailman-Users] FW: Install issues

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Defryn, Guy wrote:
> I did run genaliases and that generated the following error
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./genaliases", line 116, in ?
> main()
>   File "./genaliases", line 106, in main
> MTA.create(mlist, nolock=True, quiet=quiet)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
> _update_maps()
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in
> _update_maps
> raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
> RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias /etc/mailman/aliases
> (status:
> 1, Operation not permitted)

This is most likely FAQ 6.9:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.009.htp
I get a "RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias" when
creating lists and Postfix is my MTA

Check that and adjust the paths as appropriate for FC5.

> I also have the mailman list. Setup and subscription worked fine 
> but when I post to list I get error that says:
> 
> < it022607.mydomain.com #5.0.0 X-Postfix; Command died with status 1:
> "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman">
> 
> I assume that this is a permission issue?

It appears to be.  It may be caused by SELinux instead of just normal
file system permissions.  Do you have SELinux running in enforcing
mode?  Run the getenforce command as root to find out if you're
unsure.  If it's in enforcing mode, you're going to want to set it to
permissive or disable it for now as there are problems making mailman
and postfix work.  I've posted about this to the fedora-selinux-list
and not gotten any real solution yet.  I'll hopefully get a chance to
submit a bug to Fedora on this so it can get fixed, but for now, it's
a no go unless you are real adept at managing SELinux (which I think
only a very small handful of folks are).

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
I like this 'God'; he's so deliciously evil.
-- Stewie Griffin

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkR2VosmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1rkkwCffjt38ObXaKkEFbzhWx7j7xRM62QAoIqk5fIp
Tw+fM4Zd93mEEtODbj3c
=175E
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Re: [Mailman-Users] changing hostname

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Anne Ramey wrote:
> I changed my hostname from the time I first installed mailman.  For the 
> most part, the transition went smoothly, but we still have a few traces 
> I'd like to get rid of.  The host name this list prefers for email has 
> taken care of most of it, just not the web interface:
> To see the list of lists, the lists made on the old hostname are at 
> http://oldhost.name/mailman/admin/ and the new ones are at 
> http://newhost.name/mailman/admin/ 
> Now, the individual lists can all be reached at 
> http://newhost.name/mailman/admin/listname ...it's just the  admin 
> listing and the server's main http://oldhost.name/mailman/listinfo that 
> I can't seem to get to switch over.  Is there a way to do this?

Have you run ~mailman/bin/fix_url.py?

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
When I think about all the crap I learned in high school ... it's a
wonder I can think at all.
-- Paul Simon

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRzVrMmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1qELACgjg7Je4B1i0kaKh3Zfy1jWS32KbUAoLnYHY2/
UguKte7CEKiaD7pmam2w
=21tY
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Re: [Mailman-Users] PGP keys causing problems

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I have identified the problem with 2.1.5 and earlier. Basically, it
> has nothing to do with PGP signed messages. The problem was if a
> message contained a multipart MIME sub-part which in turn contained
> one or more text/plain parts, these text plain parts would be lost.
> This would happen with PGP signed messages with text/plain
> attachments because the unsigned message is multipart/mixed with
> text/plain sub-parts and when it is signed the entire message is
> wrapped in a multipart/signed outer part and an
> application/pgp-signature part added.

Thanks for the detective work Mark.  I submitted this to the RH/Fedora
bugzilla so that it may be fixed there with an update before it bites
too many others.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=192625

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
The reward of energy, enterprise and thrift is taxes.
-- William Feather

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRw8DcmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1pbLQCaAmL3McFCKneIojtSzfEQTdVp8MwAoMcMPkVd
Nq+5gaA8jN4LTg3omDH3
=5Wi4
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Re: [Mailman-Users] PGP keys causing problems

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Todd Zullinger wrote:
[...]
>>Around line 300 in Handlers.Scrubber, the comments say:
>>
>># All parts should be scrubbed to text/plain by now.
>>
>>and then a simple test for a non text/plain ctype is made, replacing
>>it with the "Skipped content" text from above.  Somewhere before that,
>>shouldn't the multipart/mixed message part have been handled?
> 
> 
> Yup. Something is wrong here. Maybe in Scrubber, Maybe in Python's
> email parser. I probably won't have time to look at this in detail
> until Friday, but I will. Can you send me a copy of your test message
> off list? Thanks.

Will do.  And thank you.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
The human race divides itself politically into those who want to be
controlled, and those who have no such desire.
-- Robert A. Heinlein

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRrzNsmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1o98gCeMYdZKBzLa0HnOr2ZIyAwCNZ1kSkAoMNNTpyw
fSwV7UNIF7PNSmUyKU7T
=8X0l
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Re: [Mailman-Users] PGP keys causing problems

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Before giving up on the archive, look at the 'source' html of the
> archive page and look at the 'source' of the scrubbed attachment(s).
> I've seen scrubbed attachments that look like X is missing when
> viewed in browser A and look like Y is missing when viewed in
> browser B, when in fact, if you look at the actual file, everything
> is there.

In the bug report I found, there's a link to the archived message:

http://sablecc.org/lists/sablecc-user/2004-December/000159.html

and that looks just like the archived messages I have from testing.

It starts off with:

Skipped content of type multipart/mixed

which would mean that the message part was totally skipped in
Handlers.Scrubber, right?

It seems to me that some part of the scrubber or message parsing code
may just not be recursing into the multipart/mixed part, but I don't
really know.  Mark, perhaps you know the flow better and could say
whether that's a possibility?

The structure of an OpenPGP/MIME signed message with an attachment is
something like this (the parts inside the multipart/mixed part may
vary, in my tests I used a plain text message and attached a patch
file):

multipart/signed
multipart/mixed
text/plain
text/plain
application/pgp-signature

Around line 300 in Handlers.Scrubber, the comments say:

# All parts should be scrubbed to text/plain by now.

and then a simple test for a non text/plain ctype is made, replacing
it with the "Skipped content" text from above.  Somewhere before that,
shouldn't the multipart/mixed message part have been handled?

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands,
hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats.
-- H.L. Mencken

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRrtsMmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1ptogCfWf3xbViDcFrObyDI/MAOU9ywnUsAnjfTtoDz
DKoOdu0aojENPnN6N83I
=cWxY
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Re: [Mailman-Users] PGP keys causing problems

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Jeff DeReus wrote:
> On 5/17/06, Todd Zullinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
>> To be clear, does the message arrive properly to list members or is
>> the attachment and body stripped there as well as in the archives?
>> In my testing only the archived copy was stripped.
> 
> 
> The actual text and key arrived to the mailing list.  At this point
> I cannot verify from anyone if the attachment made it through
> correctly.  my apologies.

No problem.  I'm betting the attachment did arrive, based on my own
tests.  I think this is a bug limited to the archiver.

> I have enabled the content_filter and added mime_types to see if
> this will solve my little problem.
>
> application/pgp-signature
> multipart/signed

Let us know if it does.  I'm not really familiar enough with the code
to know if it will help.  I don't think it will, but I could easily be
mistaken.

> As you might understand, losing patches is not a desirable outcome,
> so maybe in the meantime this will have some effect.

Nope, losing important parts of messages in the archives isn't good.
I wouldn't like any patches I took the time to create getting eaten.

>> Flattened?  Reading the mbox of my test list with mutt the message
>> and attachment were all normal and the signature verified properly.
>
> I am probably using the wrong word in the wrong place here.
> Everything is displayed properly in the mbox for the list.  It is
> only the archive that is affected.

That's good to know.  Unfortunately, I don't know enough about how the
archive scrubber code works to know how to solve the problem.
Hopefully someone else can offer some help.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect.
-- Mark Twain

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRrqtImGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1r9MgCg4QbmxZZGqfU35L2PahHGQSihEUUAoP0iZ2Fr
n9OZhrmM11OrM8S8ja5t
=xTV6
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Everything is an attachment

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> As far as it being worth it to upgrade to 2.1.6, there are a few
> security issues in 2.1.5 that are fixed in 2.1.6, so yes, I think
> it's worth it, but I would suggest trying to go all the way to 2.1.8
> if possible. But none of this will change the header/footer issue
> for mail with attachments that go to the list.

FWIW, the Red Hat packages should have all of the security holes
backported, so users of those packages should need to upgrade just to
be secure.  I don't run any RHEL systems though, so I can't say that
I've looked over the packages carefully (and even if I had, not many
people have a reason to take my word for the security issues being
fixed :).

I'd still agree that anyone running mailman in production should look
into updating their installations to get the improvements that have
come along since 2.1.5.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Truth is like a well-known whore.  Everybody knows her but it's
embarrassing to meet her in the street.
-- Wolfgang Borchert

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRrqE4mGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1oKGACcCYQxpcGrMNccSJq+YBLGiJLQbogAoLEnVVnw
FtvxACpc2ANCm7s54PSp
=dvGg
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Re: [Mailman-Users] PGP keys causing problems

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Jeff DeReus wrote:
> Unfortunately filter_content was not set to yes.  I am assuming that
> would be fairly "handy".

I'm not sure whether that will any effect on the archiving or not.
It's been a long time since I tested that.

> Although everything goes through properly with filter_content
> disabled and when unsigned.

To be clear, does the message arrive properly to list members or is
the attachment and body stripped there as well as in the archives?  In
my testing only the archived copy was stripped.

> As to the message in the archives, the only piece that successfully
> arrived was
> 
> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-- next part
> -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed...  Name: PGP.sig
> Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a
> digitally signed message part Url :
> http://www.blah.org/pipermail/developers/attachments/20060510/529c55f0/PGP.bin
> 

The archiver bug is mentioned here, but I couldn't see any resolution
to that part of the problem (and sourceforge isn't cooperating with me
ATM):

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-coders/2005-March/001687.html

> However, viewing the list mbox file the full message with the
> attachment ?flattened? is there.

Flattened?  Reading the mbox of my test list with mutt the message and
attachment were all normal and the signature verified properly.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
A snooze button is a poor substitute for no alarm clock at all.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRrgjomGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1qNiQCgyOLh8+FLr+VOhAM2smIW6VS7MyQAn2p27nQv
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=JTNq
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Announce-list only.

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Fabiano Breves wrote:
> I need a tip about securing a announce-list. I've setup every user
> to be moderated and set just one non-member e-mail address to post
> without moderation but It feels quite insecure. Is there a way to
> make this e-mail address to use a password ???

Yes.  You can add Approved:  as a
header or as the first line in the message.  Mailman will check for
that and allow the post through even if the address is moderated.  The
Approved line will be stripped.  If you search the FAQ and list
archives for Approved:, you will find some examples and more
discussion.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Chemistry is applied theology.
-- Augustus Owsley Stanley

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRrgMAmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1opGgCgnSTb2ylGZdtc4Px831AONYoPlskAn2+mRpar
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Re: [Mailman-Users] PGP keys causing problems

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Jeff DeReus wrote:
> The poster uses an OpenPGP/MIME signature.

Okay.

> the pass_mime_types ==
> 
> multipart/mixed
> multipart/alternative
> text/plain

I should have asked whether the filter_content setting was yes or no
too.  If it's no, then the pass_mime_types setting won't come into
play (I believe, hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong).

Anyway, I just created a test list on a system running mailman 2.1.5
and left all settings at the defaults.  Then I posted several messages
signed with and without attachments using OpenPGP/MIME.  I had no
trouble receiving the messages and verifying the pgp signatures.

Does the message show up in the list archives?  What happens if you
open the list mbox in mutt?

In my test list the message body and attachment got scrubbed from the
archives, but came through to the list intact.  I'd have to search a
bit to see what settings need to be changed to get the archiver to
work right with these messages, but I believe it can be done.  (Mark
probably knows exactly how, perhaps he'll jump in with some wisdom.)

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
I don't mind arguing with myself. It's when I lose that it bothers me.
-- Richard Powers

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRrb/8mGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1pQnwCgpbDtc+ANQtFgtlPJNG6qIYtyGW4AoLn8lXnv
t7w1LQqoa8r7cCvY8Ggy
=L0Sj
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Re: [Mailman-Users] PGP keys causing problems

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Jeff DeReus wrote:
> I am running mailman 2.1.5 with sendmail.  One of my users sent in
> an attachment with a message to the list.  When he signs with his
> PGP key, only the PGP signature remains in the message.  I have yet
> to locate the rest of the message.  It is necessary to disable the
> signature to allow his posts to go through properly.  Is there  a
> method to allow for secure signatures on messages?  I have searched
> quite a bit and have yet to find relevant information.  Any
> information/assistance would be greatly appreciated.

There are a number of variables here.  The two main ways that are used
to sign messages with PGP are PGP/MIME and inline (or traditional) PGP
(this message is signed using inline PGP).

Which method is the poster using?  What settings do you have for
pass_mime_types (on the Content filtering admin page)?

I send signed messages in both formats to various mailman lists
without the text disappearing.  I know that some mailman setups will
break the signature, but I haven't had any eat the message body so
far.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
You will rue this day!  Well, go on!  Start ruing!
-- Stewie Griffin

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRrXa8mGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1pHigCffV5w8AatoVZYj3EewOzwG12Fz5EAoNsbJsy1
INl4aHzfFLmHxIG5hmWx
=YOTq
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Everything is an attachment

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Steve Campbell wrote:
> BTW, I did find an RPM, but don't know it validity from:
> 
> http://www.wesmo.com/rpm2html/x86/mailman-2.1.6-1.i386.html
>
> Is it worth the effort to upgrade from 2.1.5 to 2.1.6? I'd also
> really like to stay in the RPM arena on most everything. It appears
> to put everything in it's proper place.

I prefer to keep my rpm-based systems using rpm packages as well, but
it's very important to make sure that the packages are made well.
When in doubt, download the source rpm and verify that it doesn't do
anything malicious or just plain wrong (this goes for vendor packages
sometimes, as was the case with the Red Hat packages for RH9).

Looking at the changelog on that package it appears that Scott A.
Hughes updated and made some modifications to the stock RHEL package.
If I were you, I'd do the same thing and update to 2.1.8, testing
carefully on a spare system before installing it on your production
box(es).

Building rpm packages isn't hard, but it does require some reading and
practice.  I'd recommend it if you manage multiple rpm-based systems,
but YMMV.  If that all seems like too much work, building mailman from
source is very straightforward.  You'll just have to adjust to the
differences in installation paths if you're used to the patched rpm
packages that use FHS locations for files.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program.
-- Dr. Milton Friedman, Nobel-Prize-winning economist.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRrW8gmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1qoTACgsnpl6VL50prr33JfSgd2QJJvReoAoL64rK3l
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=dUGx
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Re: [Mailman-Users] hot to setup a commits list?

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Manlio Perillo wrote:
> Brad Knowles ha scritto:
>> [...]
>>
>>>  But, as I can see, it is the only solution.
>> 
>> Unless you can get the commit notification process to add an
>> "Approved: password" line to the headers of your message, or the
>> first line of the message body,
> 
> Thanks, I'm new to Mailman and I was not aware of this header.  But
> the password is the list administrator's one?

The administrator or moderator password can be used.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
(When asked whether he liked children) "Ah yes...boiled or fried."
-- W.C. Fields

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRqHuomGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1oLUwCfXiBzdgzIemp3OfTihTjVcipGQPsAnjwHbIPv
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=SdtB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] hot to setup a commits list?

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I wrote:
> I haven't setup any hook-scripts in Subversion, but couldn't you
> modify the hook-script to add an Approved: header (or body line)?
> 
> The commit-email.pl script in my (dated) copy of subversion-1.2.3
> looks like it'd be simple to do either.

I just did this as a test and adding a header is quite simple.  It
should be more secure than leaving the $from address unmoderated.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before.
-- Mae West

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRqETQmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1pRewCgt/BD5bGTY8eiSqETqNNG/NsZgjcAnjUddFXo
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Re: [Mailman-Users] hot to setup a commits list?

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Manlio Perillo wrote:
> Brad Knowles ha scritto:
>> At 1:52 PM -0200 2006-05-16, Manlio Perillo wrote:
>> 
>>>  The list is moderated but, since it is a nuisance to have to
>>>  approve all messages, I'm thinking to remove the moderation flag
>>>  on the address used by the script.
>> 
>> This is precisely what we do for several "commits" type lists
>> that I run for the NTP Public Services Project.  Works fine for
>> us.
>> 
> 
> Ok, but it is not secure.  But, as I can see, it is the only
> solution.

I haven't setup any hook-scripts in Subversion, but couldn't you
modify the hook-script to add an Approved: header (or body line)?

The commit-email.pl script in my (dated) copy of subversion-1.2.3
looks like it'd be simple to do either.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Things in our country run in spite of government, not by aid of it.
-- Will Rogers

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRqDSsmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1rJvgCg+bIEq+6dua58W1n+f6EBekQ81PoAoO0rjwPC
DGnFUh6BEMxn+OhADtQi
=EJdq
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman as a newletter manager

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Julianna wrote:
> I am looking for software to manage a newsletter, and I think that
> with some configuration I can do this with Mailman. The end-product
> I want is a newsletter with content contributed my subscribers and
> non-subscribers, with a list of the "posts" followed by the actual
> content. At the basic level, I was able to achieve this with a
> moderated digest-mode list. However, I would also like to make the
> following changes, and am not sure how:
> 
> 1. Remove the header information for the digest, as it deters from
> the newsletter. This would be the From, Date and Message ID (I would
> like to be able to keep the Subject). I know there is the "Hide the
> sender of a message, replacing it with the list address (Removes
> From, Sender and Reply-To fields)" option, but that is not enough.

I'm not sure if you can remove all the digest details you want without
changing the mailman code a little.  That's not too hard really, but
might not be an option if you're using mailman on a shared web host.

> 2. Allow moderators to make changes to the submissions, in case
> spelling or punctuation errors are found.

Mailman doesn't have a facility to edit the messages, AFAIK.

> 3. Suppress the autoresponder for non-subscriber posts but allow the
> autoresponder for all posts. For all posts, I want an autoresponse
> sent with more information. I was able to get this to work, but an
> autoresponse is also sent for the "Post by non-member to a
> members-only list" reason. If I set "Send mail to poster when their
> posting is held for approval?" to "No", then no responses are sent;
> if I set this to "Yes" and also set "Should Mailman send an
> auto-response to mailing list posters?" to yes, non-subscribers get
> two messages. Is there a way to suppress the "Post by non-member to
> a members-only list" autoresponder?

In thinking about the scenario you're trying to achieve (and bear in
mind that I haven't had any caffeine or sugar yet today), it might be
simplest to direct posters to send submissions to the moderators
directly and let them format and/or correct them and then have them
post to the full list.  You could even use a separate list for those
moderators so that they would all see the submissions and know if
someone else had already handled a submission.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Going to hell when I die would just be redundant.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRnao8mGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1raXwCeKtu1HY2MTxejXQhTrbFQCorywtEAoN+OD8Vc
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Automatic Reply To The List

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

(Oh the irony, I accidentally sent this via private reply and not to
the list.  Damn Murphy.)

Jackson Madison wrote:
> Is it possible that mailman can have all my users reply directly to
> the list and not the person that sent the email?

Yep.

> I was checking the website but could not find it. If someone could
> help me find the instructions on how to accomplish this that is all
> I will need.

On the list administration General page, the option "Where are replies
to list messages directed? Poster is strongly recommended for most
mailing lists" has three options: Poster, This list, and Explicit
address.

See also the option above that if you want to strip any existing
reply-to header.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Money can't buy happiness, but it sure makes living in misery easier.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem with the forward slash in digestannouncements

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I've been browsing the archives lately just as a learning tool, and
> I'm just finding out that MUAs play such a large part of what I see
> here in all of email.  OE is what I use at work, Thunderbird at
> home, so that explains the problem I saw. Did Microsoft get much of
> anything right?

The virus and worm propagation features of MS MUA's is top notch.
I've never heard of a finer implementation.  ;-)

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program.
-- Dr. Milton Friedman, Nobel-Prize-winning economist.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman crashed; messages are shunted

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> This error is in cPanel specific modifications to Mailman having to
> do with adding '_domain' to list names to support the 'same' list
> name in multiple domains.
> 
> I don't know specifically what their patches are in this area. The
> only cPanel patches I am aware of are those at
> , and
> the above error didn't come from those patches either.

Yeah, I think those are the same one's they posted that after I nagged
them repeatedly for the changes they'd made to Mailman.  I thought
they'd be happy to provide them since they're whole system uses open
source code.  Instead it was a big hassle to get them to respond and
eventually post that diff.  It's definitely not a full diff of what
they do.

Now that I have decent access to a cPanel system I'll try to do a
proper diff -uNr sometime.

> (or see if cPanel has a fix).

Don't hold your breath on that Chuck.  I've patched a few nasty
exploits in other addon packages they provide (osCommerce most
recently) and I've been waiting to see if they ever get around to
providing their own patches for their paying customers.  It's been
close to a month since the osCommerce exploit was published on bugtraq
(with handy google search instructions for locating plenty of
targets).

It's constantly amazing to me that the best support around is found on
mailing lists like this one, thanks to many helpful folks like
yourself Mark.  I really appreciate the help you give so often and
I've learned a lot more about Mailman than I would have just tinkering
with it myself.  :)

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
"Do you think there's a God?"
"Well, SOMEbody's out to get me!"
-- Calvin and Hobbs

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman crashed; messages are shunted

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Chuck Vohs wrote:
> I am running cPanel:
> WHM 10.8.0 cPanel 10.8.2-C90
> CentOS 4.3 i686 - WHM X v3.1.0
>
> Any message sent to any mailman list on my server gets shunted.  I
> have tried reinstalling python, mailman, spamd, rebooting.

How'd you reinstall mailman?  Via cPanel or rpm?  I've worked a little
on a friends cPanel server and they had both the distribution rpm
package (RH9 was the OS) as well as their own mailman package.  The
cPanel one is installed in something like /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty.

If you're poking around to find the shunted messages, logs, and bin
programs (like unshunt).  Just something to keep in mind as it can be
rather confusing, especially if you post results of commands here that
show the OS mailman install and it looks good, while the cPanel
install that's the one you need to fix is still borked.

I get more annoyed every time I have to deal with a cPanel server. :)
They might as well be a Windows box AFAIAC.  The theory is the same:
if the GUI works, you're OK.  As soon as it doesn't, you have to do
all sorts of (what should be unnecessary) digging to figure out how
they've integrated things into their "system."

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
True Civility is when everyone gives to every other one every right
that they claim for themselves.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Rpms for RHEL/Centos 4?

[Todd Zullinger]

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Oliver Schulze L. wrote:
> anyone knows where to find rpms for the latest version of mailman?
> I need for CentOS 4.3

I can't answer your question directly, but if you don't find the rpms
you are looking for, it's not very difficult to build your own.  Just
grab the latest mailman source rpm for CentOS or RHEL and update the
spec file to build mailman 2.1.8 instead of 2.1.5.

You'll want to make a few small tweaks, like removing patches for the
security issues that have been fixed in mailman between 2.1.5 and
2.1.8 as well as update the python Requires: from 2.2 to 2.3 (I
believe that's what mailman now requires).

The last one isn't strictly necessary as it appears that CentOS 4.3
includes python 2.3 already, but it will help if you decide later to
try and rebuild your source rpm for another system with an older
python.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a
"Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble.
-- Mohandas Gandhi

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Re: [Mailman-Users] FC5 genaliases problem

[Todd Zullinger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Michael McAndrew wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> I'm configuring mailman from a clean standard FC5 installation using
> Postfix as the MTA.
> 
> I have checked that the POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD and  POSTFIX_MAP_CMD
> variables are set correctly in Defaults.py.  They are ...
> POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
> POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
> 
> But as soon as I add the line ...
> MTA = 'Postfix'
> ... to my mm_cfg.py and run bin/genaliases, I get the following error.
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "bin/genaliases", line 116, in ?
> main()
>   File "bin/genaliases", line 102, in main
> MTA.create(None, nolock=True, quiet=quiet)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
> _update_maps()
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
> raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
> RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias /etc/mailman/aliases
> (status: 1, Operation not permitted)
> 
> An aliases file is created in /etc/mailman but no aliases.db file is created.
> 
> Any ideas on how I can get past this problem would be greatly appreciated.

It's most likely a permissions issue.  See FAQ 6.9[1]

If the perms look alright, check that SELinux isn't the culprit (look
in either /var/log/messages or /var/log/audit/audit.log).

- From the path /etc/mailman I take it that you're using mailman from
the Fedora package.  If so and you find that the default perms or
SELinux policy don't work right, please consider filing a bug with
Fedora so they'll fix this.  That'll keep a lot of folks from running
into this and then needing to come here for help. :)

I'd also recommend taking a look at the GNU Mailman Installation
manual, particularly at section 6.1.1 Integrating Postfix and
Mailman[2], as it has valuable tips on making things work nice between
Postfix and Mailman.  Hopefully it's installed or referenced in the
docs Fedora installs (if not, bugzilla that to them :).

[1] http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.009.htp
[2] http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html

HTH,

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Don't hit a man when he's down -- kick him; it's easier.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation messages

[Todd Zullinger]

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Mark Sapiro wrote:
> There are work arounds, but there's no simple way for an admin to
> change a members address without confirmation.
> 
> The work arounds are:
> 
> If you have command line access to the Mailman installation, you can
> use bin/withlist and call the
> Mailman.MailList.ApprovedChangeMemberAddress() method directly or
> create a withlist script to do it.

Another method for those with command line access is to use
clone_member.  I had to do this recently and it went like this:

clone_member -r -l listname oldaddress newaddress

The -r option removes the old address after it's been cloned.  Very
handy and quite possibly easier than writing a withlist script, though
not worth as many sysadmin hipness points. :)

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Tact is just a mutual agreement to be full of shit
-- Spider Robinson

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Re: [Mailman-Users] get members list

[Todd Zullinger]

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Ed wrote:
> Todd:
> 
> <> Is there a way to get all the members of a mailing list in a single
>> page? Sometimes this is more convenient.
> 
> FAQ 3.62: How do I extract a list of my list's members
> (subscribers)?>>
> 
> Although that reply answers ONE of Daniel's question (which you do
> not cite), it does not answer the question above.

Are you discounting the roster option in the FAQ?  Or does the
limitation in that page of not showing hidden members make it useless
for you?

> I also have only Interface Access  and have some List with over a
> couple dozen which changes "display" to alphabetic Display ONLY and
> it IS a PITA -;) !

I don't disagree there.  But I don't use mailman on systems where I
don't have shell access very often, so it doesn't tend to get a chance
to annoy me more than occasionally. :)

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Most of one's life is one prolonged effort to prevent oneself
thinking.
-- Aldous Huxley

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Re: [Mailman-Users] get members list

[Todd Zullinger]

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Daniel Carvalho wrote:
> Is there a way to get all the members of a mailing list in a single
> page? Sometimes this is more convenient.

FAQ 3.62: How do I extract a list of my list's members (subscribers)?

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=membership+list&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search

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==
Learn from the mistakes of others--you can never live long enough to
make them all yourself.
-- John Luther

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't send or receive via mail lists

[Todd Zullinger]

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Webmaster wrote:
> I'm running a VPS which uses CentOS, Cpanel and WHM.

See FAQ 6.11 for info on cPanel.

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp

> The first problem I encountered with Mailman, I wasn't able to create a 
> mail list for a client using cpanel.  I had to go into the Default.py 
> file and add my hostname instead of "localhost".  That allowed me to 
> create a mail list.

You don't want to edit Defaults.py.  Your changes should go into
mm_cfg.py, as stated emphatically at the top of Defaults.py:

# NEVER make site configuration changes to this file.  ALWAYS make
# them in mm_cfg.py instead, in the designated area.  See the
# comments in that file for details.

If you don't follow this, your changes will very likely get
overwritten during an update and your setup might stop working
mysteriously.

> At the advice of the company that I pay for this VPS, I restarted the 
> cpanel services.  Here's the results:

Sort of the equivalent of a reboot for windows.  To me that's a sign
that the support folks are punting and hoping a restart will magically
fix a problem they do not understand.  I've had the displeasure of
dealing with more than a few hosting services that run cPanel and have
no clue how to do basic sysadmin on the boxes they have.

> Stopping mailman services: Shutting down Mailman's master qrunner
> PID unreadable in: 
> /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid
> [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
> '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid'
> Is qrunner even running?
> 
[...]
> Starting mailman services: Site list is missing: mailman
> 
> Can anyone decipher all of that and maybe make a suggestion on what I 
> need to do next to get my mail lists working properly?  It seems there 
> is an issue with the qrunner.pid

Mailman isn't running, so a restart which calls stop and then start
will fail the stop.  That's the qrunner error you see first.  The
second error you get when mailman tries to start is trying to tell you
that the master site list needs to be created.  If it is not created
as part of the cPanel installation and setup, then you need to create
it.  See the FAQ and docs that come with mailman for details.  It's
covered in good detail there, but the paths will be different for you
on cPanel.  There may well be other issues you run into that are
caused by the way cPanel tries to mask all of the sysadmin tasks for
you.  The support options available to cPanel users (some of which are
listed in the mailman FAQ) might be better places to get specific
guidance on getting mailman running on cPanel.

On a typical mailman installation, you'd simply run

bin/newlist mailman

as the mailman user to create the site list.

Good luck,

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
There are two kinds of pedestrians -- the quick and the dead.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Removing footer text?

[Todd Zullinger]

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Matt Singerman wrote:
> All I would like to do is remove the footer text that Mailman adds
> on to the end of all messages - the part that reads something like:

In addition to what Andre said, I believe you can get the same effect
via the web interface by deleting the text in the msg_footer and
digest_footer options, available on the Non-digest options and Digest
options pages, respectively.

(I don't have time to test this to confirm, so I'm going on memory.)

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where
everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze.
-- P.J. O'Rourke

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Re: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 6.9 on Debian Sarge

[Todd Zullinger]

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Manlio Perillo wrote:
> Todd Zullinger ha scritto:
> 
>> But IIRC, the default MTA on Debian is Exim.  So there are probably
>> less users testing the postfix integration in the packages.  That's
>> my guess.
>> 
> 
> You are right, but, as an example, Postfix is used on:
> http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/mailman.htm

I notice that they don't use the web interface to create a list in
that tutorial.  Perhaps that's why there's no note of potential
troubles?

> (maybe Postfix was the default up to Woody?)

That I couldn't tell you.  I don't know for sure that Exim is the
default in Sarge either.  It's just what I thought I've seen.  I'm not
a Debianista. :)

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
It seems a little silly now, but this country was founded as a protest
against taxation.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 6.9 on Debian Sarge

[Todd Zullinger]

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Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I don't understand the need for the 'adduser' you mentioned in your
> first post. Perhaps you can clarify what the permissions, etc. are in
> the Debian package as shipped, and what is required so we can get the
> FAQ right. Is it sufficient to
> 
> chmod 0660 data/aliases.db
> chmod 0660 data/virtual-mailman.db
> 
> and if so, why would Steinmetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> say
> 
>  On Debian Sarge mailman:mailman does not exist
>  The only way I found was to chmod 0666 data/aliases*
> 
> (from
> )?

I would wager that Steinmetz tried to follow the FAQ as written but
was thrown off by the fact that Debian doesn't use mailman as the
owner or group for the mailman files.  And if you're not familiar with
how postfix works and runs the postalias command as the user/group of
the alias file, you might resort to a chmod 0666.

- -- 
ToddOpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
==
Wisdom has two parts: (1) having a lot to say and (2) not saying it.

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