Re: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman onFedora Core 2?
Brad == Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 1:03 PM +0900 2004-11-30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: AC_CHECK_HEADER(Python.h, , got_python_h=yes)]) if test $got_python_h != yes -a $os = linux; then echo 'If you're on Linux, you have the binary distro no -devel rpm bug!' echo 'Switch to an Industrial-Strength OS such as NetBSD immediately!' echo 'Gentoo Linux will do, too.' Brad But then you have to do this for every OS in Brad existence. You'd have to wrap a conditional of this sort Brad around every single file that building Mailman might Brad require, but which is not included as part of Mailman Brad itself. Of course you don't. The point is to test for one specific kind of brain damage that is well-known, very common, and even bites people who know what they're doing, not to mention being very confusing for newbies. You can leave out the test for Linux, and simply say If you don't even have Python.h, you probably are missing many, many files required to build Mailman. Perhaps your OS has separate 'development' packages? The problem is not to build a fool-proof safety net; I'll put my money on the fool, every time. The point is to forestall one particular FAQ. Brad I'm sorry, but this is a totally non-scalable Brad suggestion. If all we had to do was to support a single OS, Brad that would be fine. But we can't do everyone's job for Brad them, and if the RPM builders want to have multiple Brad different versions of Python (or whatever else Mailman might Brad depend on), then they need to take the responsibility of Brad dealing with the resulting issues. Wishful thinking. By allocating the headers to the devel packages, they've already indicated that in their opinion it's somebody else's problem. I dunno what Messrs. Warsaw et cie. think, but in my experience this kind of hacking pays of in noticably reduced user frustration and somewhat reduced FAQmeister effort. -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of TsukubaTennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Ask not how you can do free software business; ask what your business can do for free software. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman onFedora Core 2?
At 6:04 PM +0900 2004-12-01, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Of course you don't. The point is to test for one specific kind of brain damage that is well-known, very common, and even bites people who know what they're doing, not to mention being very confusing for newbies. That's a slippery slope. Today, it's python.h. Tomorrow it may be resolv.conf. At what point do you say that you can't possibly check for every single thing on which Mailman depends, and let people who have horribly b0rken machines find out the hard way? Wishful thinking. By allocating the headers to the devel packages, they've already indicated that in their opinion it's somebody else's problem. If that's the way they want to do business, they can get the same treatment as cPanel or MacOS X Server. I dunno what Messrs. Warsaw et cie. think, but in my experience this kind of hacking pays of in noticably reduced user frustration and somewhat reduced FAQmeister effort. Mailman is an open-source project. Feel free to post patches to the tracker on SourceForge. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman onFedora Core 2?
Brad == Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wishful thinking. By allocating the headers to the devel packages, they've already indicated that in their opinion it's somebody else's problem. Brad If that's the way they want to do business, they can Brad get the same treatment as cPanel or MacOS X Server. Please, let's not. This is a case of difference of opinion on how to organize a distribution, not of cheating on the social contract. Brad Mailman is an open-source project. Feel free to post Brad patches to the tracker on SourceForge. I do feel free to do so, but it's unlikely to happen in this particular case. I don't understand the Mailman install process, so I'd have to work quite hard boning up. Somebody who already knows could probably write the patch in the same 60 seconds it took me to scratch out that autoconf stuff, though. -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of TsukubaTennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Ask not how you can do free software business; ask what your business can do for free software. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman onFedora Core 2?
At 1:03 PM +0900 2004-11-30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: AC_CHECK_HEADER(Python.h, , got_python_h=yes)]) if test $got_python_h != yes -a $os = linux; then echo 'If you're on Linux, you have the binary distro no -devel rpm bug!' echo 'Switch to an Industrial-Strength OS such as NetBSD immediately!' echo 'Gentoo Linux will do, too.' But then you have to do this for every OS in existence. You'd have to wrap a conditional of this sort around every single file that building Mailman might require, but which is not included as part of Mailman itself. I'm sorry, but this is a totally non-scalable suggestion. If all we had to do was to support a single OS, that would be fine. But we can't do everyone's job for them, and if the RPM builders want to have multiple different versions of Python (or whatever else Mailman might depend on), then they need to take the responsibility of dealing with the resulting issues. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman onFedora Core 2?
Brad == Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Brad If you can show us a cross-platform way to check for Brad all the appropriate and necessary Python headers that would Brad be required by Mailman, and would work regardless of where Brad Python was installed, where Mailman was installed, etc..., Brad I'm sure we'd love to see your patch. You don't need to do all that. All you need to do is trap the absence of such a basic file anywhere that Mailman would look for it. If $os = linux, and Python.h is missing, you can bet that missing -devel rpm is the issue. So, if Mailman comes with an autoconf script, you just do AC_CHECK_HEADER(Python.h, , got_python_h=yes)]) if test $got_python_h != yes -a $os = linux; then echo 'If you're on Linux, you have the binary distro no -devel rpm bug!' echo 'Switch to an Industrial-Strength OS such as NetBSD immediately!' echo 'Gentoo Linux will do, too.' dnl Last I checked, this wasn't a real AC macro, but we use a homebrew dnl thingie and I forget how to do this right AC_DIE_HORRIBLY_WITH_SOUND_EFFECTS() fi in configure.ac. The hard part is coming up with an informative failure message that doesn't show how disgusted you are.0.5 wink This won't work for Windows (except for people using the various GNU toolchains), but that's probably not that big a deal. Windows people either don't know what a compiler is, or they have the full schlepp. It's only Linux that surprises experienced hands by failing to distribute header files. I've been bitten by this myself twice in the last month (of course, I just do apt-get install thingie-dev, so it's not a big deal---it's the principle of the thing). -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of TsukubaTennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Ask not how you can do free software business; ask what your business can do for free software. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
RE: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman onFedora Core 2?
On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 10:40:53PM -0800, Greg Deputy wrote: Has anyone successfully installed Mailman on Fedora Core 2? Sure. That has been my primary platform. I've not had any trouble building the distribution archive. src/_japanese_codecs.c:12:20: Python.h: No such file or directory It looks like you are missing part of the Python installation. Did you forget to install the python-devel package? (It includes Python.h among other things.) That was the problem. I installed the python-devel package and now its good to go. Thanks! I didn't see anything in the INSTALL file about that besides having python installed, and being a linux newbie I didn't realize I needed that in addition to the standard python installation. Seems like something the configure script would check for, no? Thanks for the help. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
RE: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman onFedora Core 2?
At 9:45 AM -0800 2004-11-19, Greg Deputy wrote: I didn't see anything in the INSTALL file about that besides having python installed, and being a linux newbie I didn't realize I needed that in addition to the standard python installation. Seems like something the configure script would check for, no? Maybe for the RedHat RPM version, that is something they should do. For the version we provide, we assume that you have a complete installation of a recent version of Python. If you don't have that, you're likely to have problems. If you can show us a cross-platform way to check for all the appropriate and necessary Python headers that would be required by Mailman, and would work regardless of where Python was installed, where Mailman was installed, etc..., I'm sure we'd love to see your patch. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
