Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 confusion

2017-06-20 Thread Danil Smirnov 
2017-06-18 20:03 GMT+03:00 Mark Lindsay :

> I read over on the Mailman 3 Users list that an
> install process using Docker will soon be the canonical way to install
> Mailman 3, which is great.
>

The docker installation is quite usable already, no blocking issues
noticed, see
https://asynchronous.in/docker-mailman/

You can easily set up all Mailman components with single docker-compose.yml
and even have SSL certificates automatically installed by Letsencrypt.

There is no need in manual work fighting versions/dependencies/etc
anymore...

Regards,
Danil Smirnov
https://mailman3.com/
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 confusion

2017-06-20 Thread Mark Lindsay 
Hi Larry,

Does that mean _at_least_ 2.7, or does it mean I need two different
> versions of Python on the same box, or does it mean I need two boxes?
>

The `virtualenv` tool will solve this problem for you. From
http://python-guide-pt-br.readthedocs.io/en/latest/dev/virtualenvs/ :


> A Virtual Environment is a tool to keep the dependencies required by
> different projects in separate places, by creating virtual Python
> environments for them. It solves the “Project X depends on version 1.x but,
> Project Y needs 4.x” dilemma, and keeps your global site-packages directory
> clean and manageable.


It allows you to have application-specific versions of the python
interpreter and python packages on the same machine. The global (server
default) version of python will no longer be relevant.

`virtualenv -p python3` will give you python 3 for Mailman 3 Core.
`virtualenv` will give you python 2 for the other apps.

Mark
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 confusion

2017-06-19 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 06/19/2017 07:30 PM, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> 
> This is all true, but personally I can't see any likelihood of
> any noticeable uptake of Mailman 3 until it will all run on one
> version of Python.


Personally, I can't understand why you would say that. Can you elaborate
on that? I have no hard data, but I expect that most machines that have
any Python applications at all probably have both Python 2 and Python 3
installed and likely have both Python 2 and Python 3 applications.

Keep in mind that both Postorius and HyperKitty, while quite useful, are
really separate applications from the Mailman core and are not required
to use the core to manage email lists.


> Having said that, if there's any specific help needed to achieve that
> then I'm potentially willing to put some work in.


I'm sure we would welcome your help, but the place to discuss that is
mailman-us...@mailman3.org

or mailman-develop...@python.org
.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 confusion

2017-06-19 Thread Jon Ribbens 
On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 06:53:37PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> It means Postorius (postorius), HyperKitty (mailman-hyperkitty) and
> therefore the supporting project modules they import, mailmanclient and
> django-mailman3 all require Python 2.7. Not 'at least' Python 2.7, but
> some 2.7.x.
> 
> Python 2.7 and Python 3 are significantly different. Programs can be
> bilingual, but not all of Postorius, HyperKitty and their dependencies
> are fully Python 3 compatible yet.
> 
> This means you need Python 3.4 or later for Mailman core and Python
> 2.7.x for Postorius and HyperKitty. These are quite capable of
> coexisting on the same box and that is probably what you want, but it is
> possible to run Postorius and HyperKitty on a separate box, but there
> are potential security issues involved in exposing the core's REST
> interface beyond 'localhost'.

This is all true, but personally I can't see any likelihood of
any noticeable uptake of Mailman 3 until it will all run on one
version of Python.

Having said that, if there's any specific help needed to achieve that
then I'm potentially willing to put some work in.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 confusion

2017-06-19 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 06/19/2017 08:01 AM, Rosenbaum, Larry M. wrote:
>> From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
>> bounces+rosenbaumlm=ornl@python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
>>
>> At the moment it actually says "The backend requires Python 3.4 or newer
>> while the frontend requires Python 2.7"
>>
>> What that means is the Mailman core (mailman) and and the Mailman -
>> HyperKitty plugin (mailman-hyperkitty) require Python 3 (3.4, 3.5 and
>> 3.6 are supported).
>>
>> Postorius (postorius), HyperKitty (mailman-hyperkitty) and therefore the
>> supporting project modules they import, mailmanclient and
>> django-mailman3 all require Python 2.7.
> 
> Does that mean _at_least_ 2.7, or does it mean I need two different versions 
> of Python on the same box, or does it mean I need two boxes?


It means Postorius (postorius), HyperKitty (mailman-hyperkitty) and
therefore the supporting project modules they import, mailmanclient and
django-mailman3 all require Python 2.7. Not 'at least' Python 2.7, but
some 2.7.x.

Python 2.7 and Python 3 are significantly different. Programs can be
bilingual, but not all of Postorius, HyperKitty and their dependencies
are fully Python 3 compatible yet.

This means you need Python 3.4 or later for Mailman core and Python
2.7.x for Postorius and HyperKitty. These are quite capable of
coexisting on the same box and that is probably what you want, but it is
possible to run Postorius and HyperKitty on a separate box, but there
are potential security issues involved in exposing the core's REST
interface beyond 'localhost'.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 confusion

2017-06-19 Thread Rosenbaum, Larry M. 
> From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
> bounces+rosenbaumlm=ornl@python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
> 
> At the moment it actually says "The backend requires Python 3.4 or newer
> while the frontend requires Python 2.7"
> 
> What that means is the Mailman core (mailman) and and the Mailman -
> HyperKitty plugin (mailman-hyperkitty) require Python 3 (3.4, 3.5 and
> 3.6 are supported).
> 
> Postorius (postorius), HyperKitty (mailman-hyperkitty) and therefore the
> supporting project modules they import, mailmanclient and
> django-mailman3 all require Python 2.7.

Does that mean _at_least_ 2.7, or does it mean I need two different versions of 
Python on the same box, or does it mean I need two boxes?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 confusion

2017-06-19 Thread Mark Lindsay 
Hi Tlhackque,

I went through a similar battle with installing Mailman 3 but emerged
victorious in the end. Here are some tips that might help you out.

- There are several places where you can find Mailman 3 docs. It is
confusing. The most complete documentation I found is here:
https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/install.html

- Don't use mailman bundler

- Start with installing just Mailman 3 Core. Core is the part of Mailman 3
that talks to your mail server and controls lists and members of lists.
Leave Postorius and Hyperkitty out of it until you have Core running and
you understand what it is doing. You can work directly with Mailman 3 using
`mailman shell` or the Mailman 3 Core REST API
https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/rest.html

- Mailman 3 Core indeed requires python 3

- Use Python's `virtualenv -p python3` to install Mailman 3 Core. It looks
like a lot of the problems you're having are because of dependency/version
hell. virtualenv will help with this. Successfully dockerizing Mailman 3
Core will help even more! I read over on the Mailman 3 Users list that an
install process using Docker will soon be the canonical way to install
Mailman 3, which is great.

- Use a SQL backend with Mailman 3 Core that allows you to inspect its DB
tables directly. This is so you can see what it is doing behind the scenes
when you interact with it via `mailman shell` or the REST API. The DB
schema is sane and easy to navigate.
https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/database.html

- I really like that I was able to install Mailman 3 Core right in a
non-privileged user's home directory.  My server is just a stock Ubuntu AWS
EC2 instance. My Mailman 3 Core install is in `/home/ubuntu/mailman` with a
configuration file of `/home/ubuntu/mailman/var/etc/mailman.cfg`. I am
running Mailman 3 Core in production from the regular `ubuntu` user's home
directory in a virtualenv. I do not know if this is the recommended way to
do it, but the documentation is especially sparse in this area, and it
seems to work!

As best I can remember (it's been a couple months), here are the steps I
followed to get it up and running:

1. `cd ~`
2. `git clone https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman.git`
3. `cd mailman`
4. `virtualenv -p python3 venv`
5. `source venv/bin/activate`
6. `python setup.py develop`
7. I am pretty sure this setup command will place a configuration file into
`~/mailman/var/etc/mailman.cfg`. Edit this file.
https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/config/docs/config.html
8. `mailman info` can confirm which configuration file is in use
9. `mailman start` will start up Mailman 3 Core. This is what the parent
background process command looks like in `ps -ef`:
`/home/ubuntu/mailman/venv/bin/python /home/ubuntu/mailman/venv/bin/master
-C /home/ubuntu/mailman/var/etc/mailman.cfg`
10. Logs are in ~/mailman/var/logs

It is not a straightforward install process and requires a little detective
work based on your environment and mail server. I had the disadvantage of
never being a Mailman 2 user, so a big chunk of my learning curve was
understanding Mailman terminology and its way of doing things.

I still do not have Postorius or Hyperkitty installed. My use case is a
PHP-based CMS which administers Mailman 3 Core via its REST API. I wrote a
quick and dirty PHP client and it works surprisingly well. Mailman 3 Core
has been solid in production and easy to deal with via the REST API.

Good luck, and you might want to check out the Mailman 3-specific users
list here:
https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-us...@mailman3.org/

On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 5:14 PM, tlhackque via Mailman-Users <
mailman-users@python.org> wrote:

> I took another look at installing Mailman 3, and ended up lost and
> confused.  I'm an experienced software person - but my Python knowledge
> is minimal.
>
> Fedora 25, python 3.5.3, pretty much out of the box.
>
> Mailman version: 3.1.0 (The other bits and pieces are current - 1.1)
>
> I tried to follow the documentation on
> http://docs.list.org/en/latest/prodsetup.html,
>
> http://mailman-3-installation.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
> production_install.html
> claims that the backend requires Python 3.4, but the frontend 2.7.  Not
> clear if this is credible, but it's out there...
>
> https://wiki.list.org/Mailman3 points to Mark Sapiro's experience on
> https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%203%20installation%20experience  This
> starts off with "For both installs I started with mailman-bundler."
> But https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-bundler says "All of this
> documentation is obsolete!  Mailman Bundler is no longer recommended or
> supported. "  So...
>
> I have yet to find a step-by-step 'bare OS to running MM3" document.
> I've run MM2.1 lists for years, it wasn't this hard to get started.
> Just install and edit one config file (plus the webserver.).  I don't
> want to learn a zillion other technologies just to get started

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 confusion

2017-06-19 Thread tlhackque via Mailman-Users 
On 18-Jun-17 13:03, Mark Lindsay wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to write & share your experience!  I'll see
if I can reproduce your success.

readthedocs is somewhat off-putting since it asserts different Python
version dependencies from the main site.

I did understand that the core requires Python 3.  What isn't clear is
whether the Front end requires Python 2... I do have 2.7.3 installed.

I didn't know about the mailman3-users list; next round will go there.

I've perused the docs, and  decided that I will have to get an instance
running & do some experimentation to make sense of them.  (e.g. the
schemas for the REST API's  json are sketchy - I haven't found how
topics/topic filters are represented - and they're a key item for me. 
And the "dumps" are less helpful to a non-python person
than raw json.)  There's noBut it looks like it should be possible to
replace what I did with the 2.1 cli utilities with not much code - and a
lot of research. 

I can live without the archive for a while, but the main reason for
converting my new project to MM3 is the new UI.

It's not obvious that I can use a virtual environment when a webserver
has to interact - and especially where the host runs SeLinux (extended
access controls.)

I use SQLite elsewhere; I planned to stick with it for this.  It's the
Python default, and the command interface for queries is reasonable. 
(And it has a -- sorry -- Perl API, which is the implementation language
for the main application.)

I do disagree with you on one point - it doesn't take 'a little
detective work' to figure this out.  It takes a LOT of detective work
:-)  I've invested several daze, and still don't have a process running.

But I'll (probably) get there.  Eventually.  Thanks for the tips.


> Hi Tlhackque,
>
> I went through a similar battle with installing Mailman 3 but emerged
> victorious in the end. Here are some tips that might help you out.
>
> - There are several places where you can find Mailman 3 docs. It is
> confusing. The most complete documentation I found is
> here: https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/install.html
>
> - Don't use mailman bundler
>
> - Start with installing just Mailman 3 Core. Core is the part of
> Mailman 3 that talks to your mail server and controls lists and
> members of lists. Leave Postorius and Hyperkitty out of it until you
> have Core running and you understand what it is doing. You can work
> directly with Mailman 3 using `mailman shell` or the Mailman 3 Core
> REST
> API https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/rest.html
>
> - Mailman 3 Core indeed requires python 3
>
> - Use Python's `virtualenv -p python3` to install Mailman 3 Core. It
> looks like a lot of the problems you're having are because of
> dependency/version hell. virtualenv will help with this. Successfully
> dockerizing Mailman 3 Core will help even more! I read over on the
> Mailman 3 Users list that an install process using Docker will soon be
> the canonical way to install Mailman 3, which is great.
>
> - Use a SQL backend with Mailman 3 Core that allows you to inspect its
> DB tables directly. This is so you can see what it is doing behind the
> scenes when you interact with it via `mailman shell` or the REST API.
> The DB schema is sane and easy to
> navigate. 
> https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/database.html
>
> - I really like that I was able to install Mailman 3 Core right in a
> non-privileged user's home directory.  My server is just a stock
> Ubuntu AWS EC2 instance. My Mailman 3 Core install is in
> `/home/ubuntu/mailman` with a configuration file of
> `/home/ubuntu/mailman/var/etc/mailman.cfg`. I am running Mailman 3
> Core in production from the regular `ubuntu` user's home directory in
> a virtualenv. I do not know if this is the recommended way to do it,
> but the documentation is especially sparse in this area, and it seems
> to work!
>
> As best I can remember (it's been a couple months), here are the steps
> I followed to get it up and running:
>
> 1. `cd ~`
> 2. `git clone https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman.git`
> 
> 3. `cd mailman`
> 4. `virtualenv -p python3 venv`
> 5. `source venv/bin/activate`
> 6. `python setup.py develop`
> 7. I am pretty sure this setup command will place a configuration file
> into `~/mailman/var/etc/mailman.cfg`. Edit this
> file. 
> https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/config/docs/config.html
> 8. `mailman info` can confirm which configuration file is in use
> 9. `mailman start` will start up Mailman 3 Core. This is what the
> parent background process command looks like in `ps -ef`:
> `/home/ubuntu/mailman/venv/bin/python
> /home/ubuntu/mailman/venv/bin/master -C
> /home/ubuntu/mailman/var/etc/mailman.cfg`
> 10. Logs are in ~/mailman/var/logs
>
> It is not a straightforward install process and requires a little
> detective work based on your environment and mail server. I had the
>

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 confusion

2017-06-18 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 06/18/2017 10:58 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/17/2017 02:14 PM, tlhackque via Mailman-Users wrote:
> 
>> I have yet to find a step-by-step 'bare OS to running MM3" document. 
> 
> 
> Have you seen 


Yes, obviously you referenced that earlier :(

And yes, it is not (yet) the step by step you're looking for. We are
working on that and also on getting some packaged solutions that are
much easier to install, but we're not there yet.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 confusion

2017-06-18 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 06/17/2017 02:14 PM, tlhackque via Mailman-Users wrote:
> I took another look at installing Mailman 3, and ended up lost and
> confused.  I'm an experienced software person - but my Python knowledge
> is minimal.
> 
> Fedora 25, python 3.5.3, pretty much out of the box.
> 
> Mailman version: 3.1.0 (The other bits and pieces are current - 1.1)


A better list for Mailman 3 discussions is mailman-us...@mailman3.org



> I tried to follow the documentation on
> http://docs.list.org/en/latest/prodsetup.html,
> 
> http://mailman-3-installation.readthedocs.io/en/latest/production_install.html
> claims that the backend requires Python 3.4, but the frontend 2.7.  Not
> clear if this is credible, but it's out there...


At the moment it actually says "The backend requires Python 3.4 or newer
while the frontend requires Python 2.7"

What that means is the Mailman core (mailman) and and the Mailman -
HyperKitty plugin (mailman-hyperkitty) require Python 3 (3.4, 3.5 and
3.6 are supported).

Postorius (postorius), HyperKitty (mailman-hyperkitty) and therefore the
supporting project modules they import, mailmanclient and
django-mailman3 all require Python 2.7.


> https://wiki.list.org/Mailman3 points to Mark Sapiro's experience on
> https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%203%20installation%20experience  This
> starts off with "For both installs I started with mailman-bundler."  
> But https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-bundler says "All of this
> documentation is obsolete!  Mailman Bundler is no longer recommended or
> supported. "  So...


Yes. I intend to update that. In the mean time I added a note.


> I have yet to find a step-by-step 'bare OS to running MM3" document. 


Have you seen 


> I've run MM2.1 lists for years, it wasn't this hard to get started. 
> Just install and edit one config file (plus the webserver.).  I don't
> want to learn a zillion other technologies just to get started - e.g.
> 
> But, I decided to see how far I could get.  I tried this, based on pip
> search mailman:
> 
> dnf install python3 python3-devel (gets 3.5.3)
> pip3 install mailman postorius mailmanclient HyperKitty
> mailman-hyperkitty KittyStore
> 
> All went well until KittyStore, which (0.9.3 is what pip found) died with:
> Collecting storm (from KittyStore)
>   Downloading storm-0.20.tar.bz2 (213kB)
> 100% || 215kB 318kB/s
> Complete output from command python setup.py egg_info:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
>   File "/tmp/pip-build-wzs03r_4/storm/setup.py", line 5, in 
> import ez_setup
>   File "/tmp/pip-build-wzs03r_4/storm/ez_setup.py", line 106
> except pkg_resources.VersionConflict, e:
> ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax


KittyStore is obsolete and not required.

You also need django-mailman3.


> Well, set that aside, and install the rest, which seems to work.
> 
> Try again with KittyStore, same failure.  So maybe skip the archive for now.
> 
> Try 'mailman info', another syntax error.
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File
> "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/xmlconfig.py", line
> 272, in endElementNS
> self.context.end()
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
> line 345, in end
> self.stack.pop().finish()
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
> line 452, in finish
> args = toargs(context, *self.argdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
> line 794, in toargs
> args[str(name)] = field.fromUnicode(s)
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/fields.py",
> line 73, in fromUnicode
> value = self.context.resolve(name)
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
> line 151, in resolve
> mod = __import__(mname, *_import_chickens)
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/database/factory.py",
> line 22, in 
> import alembic.command
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/command.py", line 3, in
> 
> from .script import ScriptDirectory
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/script/__init__.py",
> line 1, in 
> from .base import ScriptDirectory, Script  # noqa
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/script/base.py", line
> 2, in 
> from dateutil import tz
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/dateutil/tz.py", line 78
> `self._name`,
> ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax


This looks like you have somehow installed the Python 2.7
python_dateutil package in your python 3 library.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
Mailman-Users

[Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 confusion

2017-06-18 Thread tlhackque via Mailman-Users 
I took another look at installing Mailman 3, and ended up lost and
confused.  I'm an experienced software person - but my Python knowledge
is minimal.

Fedora 25, python 3.5.3, pretty much out of the box.

Mailman version: 3.1.0 (The other bits and pieces are current - 1.1)

I tried to follow the documentation on
http://docs.list.org/en/latest/prodsetup.html,

http://mailman-3-installation.readthedocs.io/en/latest/production_install.html
claims that the backend requires Python 3.4, but the frontend 2.7.  Not
clear if this is credible, but it's out there...

https://wiki.list.org/Mailman3 points to Mark Sapiro's experience on
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%203%20installation%20experience  This
starts off with "For both installs I started with mailman-bundler."  
But https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-bundler says "All of this
documentation is obsolete!  Mailman Bundler is no longer recommended or
supported. "  So...

I have yet to find a step-by-step 'bare OS to running MM3" document. 
I've run MM2.1 lists for years, it wasn't this hard to get started. 
Just install and edit one config file (plus the webserver.).  I don't
want to learn a zillion other technologies just to get started - e.g.

But, I decided to see how far I could get.  I tried this, based on pip
search mailman:

dnf install python3 python3-devel (gets 3.5.3)
pip3 install mailman postorius mailmanclient HyperKitty
mailman-hyperkitty KittyStore

All went well until KittyStore, which (0.9.3 is what pip found) died with:
Collecting storm (from KittyStore)
  Downloading storm-0.20.tar.bz2 (213kB)
100% || 215kB 318kB/s
Complete output from command python setup.py egg_info:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File "/tmp/pip-build-wzs03r_4/storm/setup.py", line 5, in 
import ez_setup
  File "/tmp/pip-build-wzs03r_4/storm/ez_setup.py", line 106
except pkg_resources.VersionConflict, e:
^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Well, set that aside, and install the rest, which seems to work.

Try again with KittyStore, same failure.  So maybe skip the archive for now.

Try 'mailman info', another syntax error.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/xmlconfig.py", line
272, in endElementNS
self.context.end()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
line 345, in end
self.stack.pop().finish()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
line 452, in finish
args = toargs(context, *self.argdata)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
line 794, in toargs
args[str(name)] = field.fromUnicode(s)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/fields.py",
line 73, in fromUnicode
value = self.context.resolve(name)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
line 151, in resolve
mod = __import__(mname, *_import_chickens)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/database/factory.py",
line 22, in 
import alembic.command
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/command.py", line 3, in

from .script import ScriptDirectory
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/script/__init__.py",
line 1, in 
from .base import ScriptDirectory, Script  # noqa
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/script/base.py", line
2, in 
from dateutil import tz
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/dateutil/tz.py", line 78
`self._name`,
^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/bin/mailman", line 9, in 
load_entry_point('mailman==3.1.0', 'console_scripts', 'mailman')()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/bin/mailman.py", line
97, in main
initialize(config_path)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/core/initialize.py",
line 184, in initialize
initialize_1(config_path)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/core/initialize.py",
line 101, in initialize_1
xmlconfig.string(zcml.decode('utf-8'))
  File
"/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/xmlconfig.py", line
513, in string
processxmlfile(f, context)
  File
"/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/xmlconfig.py", line
295, in processxmlfile
parser.parse(src)
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.5/xml/sax/expatreader.py", line 110, in parse
xmlreader.IncrementalParser.parse(self, source)
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.5/xml/sax/xmlreader.py", line 125, in parse
self.feed(buffer)
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.5/xml/sax/expatreader.py", line 210, in feed
self._parser.Parse(data, isFinal)
  File "/builddir/build/BUILD/Python-3.5.3/Modules/pyexpat.c", line 468,
in EndElement
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.5/xml/sax/expatreader.py", line 370, in
end_element_ns