Re: [Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD

[Jason J. Hellenthal]

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:41:19 -0500
Jeffrey Goldberg  wrote:

> On Aug 12, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Paul Schmehl wrote:
> 
> > --On Wednesday, August 12, 2009 13:55:18 -0500 Jeffrey Goldberg 
> >  > > wrote:
> 
> >> I'm posting this to both the mailman-users list and the freebsd-ports
> >> list.  I realize that not all follow-up will make it to both lists.
> 
> 
> >> But when I do
> >>
> >>  % cd /usr/ports/mail/mailman
> >>  % sudo make -DMM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org -
> >> DFORCE_PKG_REGISTER install
> >>
> >> It just installs in the default location, /usr/local/mailman
> 
> > This could be a really stupid question (because I've never tried to  
> > do what you're doing), but shouldn't the above line be:
> >
> > $ sudo make MM_DIR=/mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org
> >
> > In other words, don't you have to provide the *absolute* patch to  
> > the install location?
> 
> No. Reading the Makefile it is clear that MM_DIR is relative to $PREFIX
> 
> The default setting in the Makefile is
> 
>   MM_DIR?= mailman
> 
> And later on there is a
> 
>MAILMANDIR= ${PREFIX}/${MM_DIR}
> 
> With MAILMANDIR being the absolute install directory.
> 
> > The problem is, I'm not exactly sure *where* you want mailman to  
> > install, so it's hard to be correct without more information.
> 
> Mailman (under normal defaults) installs in various directories under
> 
>   /usr/local/mailman
> 
> The python for all of the CGIs lives in
> 
>   /usr/local/mailman/Mailman
> 
> and the programs that an administrator might run on the command line  
> live in
> 
>   /usr/local/mailmain/bin
> 
> And there are various other directories for queues and logs and data  
> and per list configurations and such
> 
> I want to have instances installed in
> 
>   /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/site1
>   /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/site2
>   /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/site3
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -j
> 
> -- 
> Jeffrey Goldberghttp://www.goldmark.org/jeff/
> 

Can you not just ( cp -r /usr/local/mailman /path/to/vhost/staging ) edit some 
of the paths and then just host it. How many of the files are you actually 
required to edit ?. If this will be a continual process it might be better off 
to rsync your master mailman directory to all the separate vhosts obviously 
skipping configs and list directories and then scripting out the exact changes 
you need to make up creation of a new vhost.

Best regards.

:wq
-- 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD

[Boris Kochergin]

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:

On Aug 12, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Mel Flynn wrote:


On Wednesday 12 August 2009 11:40:47 Bill Moran wrote:


Were it me, I'd add jails to the system. [...] That's obviously not 
the only way to get what you want, just my

suggestion.


And mine.


Thank you and Bill for the jail suggestion.  I've never played with 
jails, as I really only have one public IP address available.
You could assign each jail an RFC 1918 private address and perform NAT 
for them on the host system. I do this with PF and it works like a charm.


-Boris

FORCE_PKG_REGISTER abuse will hurt you sooner or later.


I am living in fear of that.


If you must, then set PKG_DBDIR, PORT_DBDIR and PREFIX correctly.


I don't understand the Package and Port databases well enough to 
actually set them correctly, so I do suspect that I am causing trouble 
for myself this way.


But things get much easier if you use seperate jails and a postfix in 
mailhub mode on the main IP

if you have only one incoming IP.


Ah.  I hadn't thought of that.  I do only have one IP.  I hadn't 
realized that I could set up private addresses on the same host.  
Would the postfix on the main IP be able to run scripts that are on 
individual jails?  If not, I'd have to set up a listening postfix in 
each jail which would accept mail forwarded to it only from the main 
IP.  For outgoing mail, mailman can talk SMTP to a "remote" mail 
server.  Another point of confusion with jails is that the HTTP 
interface for mailman would need to be on the public IP, but would 
need to access the appropriate mailman data that live within jails.


So I really think that unless I can do full jails, each with their own 
SMTP and HTTP daemons on their own public IPs, this would be very 
complicated to maintain.  But I am only guessing here as I don't 
really know what can and can't be done easily with jails.


Cheers,

-j


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD

[Paul Schmehl]

--On Wednesday, August 12, 2009 13:55:18 -0500 Jeffrey Goldberg 
 wrote:




I'm posting this to both the mailman-users list and the freebsd-ports
list.  I realize that not all follow-up will make it to both lists.

I would like to set up multiple instances of Mailman on a FreeBSD 7-
STABLE system with using Postfix.  Looking at the ports Makefile, it
appears that if I set MM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/domain-for-this-instance
everything should work file (plus add FORCE_PACKAGE_REGISTER allow
this second instance to be installed.)

But when I do

  % cd /usr/ports/mail/mailman
  % sudo make -DMM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org -
DFORCE_PKG_REGISTER install

It just installs in the default location, /usr/local/mailman

And this paradoxical report of various settings

$ sudo make MM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org -


This could be a really stupid question (because I've never tried to do what 
you're doing), but shouldn't the above line be:


$ sudo make MM_DIR=/mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org

In other words, don't you have to provide the *absolute* patch to the install 
location?


In addition, I would think you would need to change PREFIX as well for the port 
to install where you want it to.


So, ISTM, you should be doing this:

$ sudo make PREFIX=/usr/local/mailman/vhost/lists.wilson-pta.org 
-DFORCE_PKG_REGISTER install


rather than trying to set MM_DIR.  Note you may *also* have to set MM_DIR, but 
I'm almost certain you need to set PREFIX if you want the port to install there 
instead of /usr/local/mailman.


The problem is, I'm not exactly sure *where* you want mailman to install, so 
it's hard to be correct without more information.


--
Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst
As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions
are my own and not those of my employer.
***
"It is as useless to argue with those who have
renounced the use of reason as to administer
medication to the dead." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD

[Jeffrey Goldberg]

On Aug 12, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Mel Flynn wrote:


On Wednesday 12 August 2009 11:40:47 Bill Moran wrote:


Were it me, I'd add jails to the system. [...] That's obviously not  
the only way to get what you want, just my

suggestion.


And mine.


Thank you and Bill for the jail suggestion.  I've never played with  
jails, as I really only have one public IP address available.



FORCE_PKG_REGISTER abuse will hurt you sooner or later.


I am living in fear of that.


If you must, then set PKG_DBDIR, PORT_DBDIR and PREFIX correctly.


I don't understand the Package and Port databases well enough to  
actually set them correctly, so I do suspect that I am causing trouble  
for myself this way.


But things get much easier if you use seperate jails and a postfix  
in mailhub mode on the main IP

if you have only one incoming IP.


Ah.  I hadn't thought of that.  I do only have one IP.  I hadn't  
realized that I could set up private addresses on the same host.   
Would the postfix on the main IP be able to run scripts that are on  
individual jails?  If not, I'd have to set up a listening postfix in  
each jail which would accept mail forwarded to it only from the main  
IP.  For outgoing mail, mailman can talk SMTP to a "remote" mail  
server.  Another point of confusion with jails is that the HTTP  
interface for mailman would need to be on the public IP, but would  
need to access the appropriate mailman data that live within jails.


So I really think that unless I can do full jails, each with their own  
SMTP and HTTP daemons on their own public IPs, this would be very  
complicated to maintain.  But I am only guessing here as I don't  
really know what can and can't be done easily with jails.


Cheers,

-j

--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD

[Jeffrey Goldberg]

On Aug 12, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Paul Schmehl wrote:

--On Wednesday, August 12, 2009 13:55:18 -0500 Jeffrey Goldberg > wrote:



I'm posting this to both the mailman-users list and the freebsd-ports
list.  I realize that not all follow-up will make it to both lists.




But when I do

 % cd /usr/ports/mail/mailman
 % sudo make -DMM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org -
DFORCE_PKG_REGISTER install

It just installs in the default location, /usr/local/mailman


This could be a really stupid question (because I've never tried to  
do what you're doing), but shouldn't the above line be:


$ sudo make MM_DIR=/mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org

In other words, don't you have to provide the *absolute* patch to  
the install location?


No. Reading the Makefile it is clear that MM_DIR is relative to $PREFIX

The default setting in the Makefile is

 MM_DIR?= mailman

And later on there is a

  MAILMANDIR= ${PREFIX}/${MM_DIR}

With MAILMANDIR being the absolute install directory.

The problem is, I'm not exactly sure *where* you want mailman to  
install, so it's hard to be correct without more information.


Mailman (under normal defaults) installs in various directories under

 /usr/local/mailman

The python for all of the CGIs lives in

 /usr/local/mailman/Mailman

and the programs that an administrator might run on the command line  
live in


 /usr/local/mailmain/bin

And there are various other directories for queues and logs and data  
and per list configurations and such


I want to have instances installed in

 /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/site1
 /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/site2
 /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/site3

Cheers,

-j

--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD

[Jeffrey Goldberg]

On Aug 12, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:


Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
I would like to set up multiple instances of Mailman on a FreeBSD 7- 
STABLE system with using Postfix.


Personally, I wouldn't use the [FreeBSD] ports version if you want  
to do multiple instances of Mailman.  I would install each version  
from our official source tarballs that you can download from www.list.org 
 and ftp.gnu.org.


The FreeBSD Ports version contains a couple of patches which might be  
useful, though some are merely cosmetic.  It also knows how to find  
the right gid and uid for working with various MTAs.  Postfix, as we  
know, is finicky, and this port really does help people get it right.


Otherwise, I would recommend that you find the port maintainer for  
Mailman, and discuss this subject with them.


Already on the cc-line

Anyway, what I have found is that if I manually edit the ports/mail/ 
mailman/Makefile to change


 #MM_DIR?=   mailman
 MM_DIR?=mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org

The install works as expected, even though when I specified -DMM_DIR  
on the command line it worked for some purposes (built files contained  
the correct string in them) but not for other purposes (the files  
installed in the wrong place).  So I suspect that the "install" stage  
must re-read the Makefile.


So I do now have this other instance installed.  One thing that I (and  
others doing things this way) will have to take care of is the startup  
script, /usr/local/etc/rc.d/mailman, for the queue runner.  This  
installation did overwrite the original.  So I'm either going to have  
to manually combine these in one startup script or set up a separate  
script for each instance.  I'm sure that there will be other things to  
watch out for as well.  I hope to contribute to the Wiki on this once  
I've got everything running.


Let me just say that I am eagerly looking forward to Mailman 3.

Cheers,

-j


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD

[Brad Knowles]

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:

I'm posting this to both the mailman-users list and the freebsd-ports 
list.  I realize that not all follow-up will make it to both lists.


I would like to set up multiple instances of Mailman on a FreeBSD 
7-STABLE system with using Postfix.  Looking at the ports Makefile, it 
appears that if I set MM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/domain-for-this-instance 
everything should work file (plus add FORCE_PACKAGE_REGISTER allow this 
second instance to be installed.)


Personally, I wouldn't use the ports version if you want to do multiple 
instances of Mailman.  I would install each version from our official source 
tarballs that you can download from www.list.org and ftp.gnu.org.


Alternatively, if you want to use the ports version, then I would keep it 
simple and serve only one domain.



Otherwise, I would recommend that you find the port maintainer for Mailman, 
and discuss this subject with them.  Hopefully, they would know enough about 
both sides of the problem to be able to recommend a solution or patch for you.


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[Mailman-Users] Multiple instances of Mailman on FreeBSD

[Jeffrey Goldberg]

I'm posting this to both the mailman-users list and the freebsd-ports  
list.  I realize that not all follow-up will make it to both lists.


I would like to set up multiple instances of Mailman on a FreeBSD 7- 
STABLE system with using Postfix.  Looking at the ports Makefile, it  
appears that if I set MM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/domain-for-this-instance  
everything should work file (plus add FORCE_PACKAGE_REGISTER allow  
this second instance to be installed.)


But when I do

 % cd /usr/ports/mail/mailman
 % sudo make -DMM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org - 
DFORCE_PKG_REGISTER install


It just installs in the default location, /usr/local/mailman

And this paradoxical report of various settings

$ sudo make MM_DIR=mailman/vhosts/lists.wilson-pta.org - 
DFORCE_PKG_REGISTER install

===>  Found saved configuration for mailman-2.1.12

You may change the following build options:
MM_USERNAME=mailman The username of the Mailman user.
MM_USERID=91The user ID of the Mailman user.
MM_GROUPNAME=mailmanThe group to which the Mailman user will belong.
MM_GROUPID=MM_USERIDThe group ID for the Mailman user.
MM_DIR=mailman		Mailman will be installed in /usr/local/mailman/vhosts/ 
lists.wilson-pta.org.
CGI_GID=www		The group name or id under which your web server executes  
CGI scripts.

IMGDIR=www/iconsIcon images will be installed in /usr/local/www/icons.


Notice the conflicting information on the line telling me about MM_DIR.


Background on the issue

As is well known to mailman users, mailman 2.X does not fully deal  
with virtual mail domains in that, say


pta-bo...@lists.shepard-families.org

And

pta-bo...@lists.wilson-pta.org

would have to be the same list.  That is mailman does not provide a  
separate namespace for lists in different domains.


The Wiki/FAQ at

 http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030604

hints at patches (which I can't seem to locate) and mailing list  
discussion mentions an alternative of having a separate instance of  
Mailman for each virtual domain.  This later approach seems easier if  
you don't anticipate having loads of domains.  So that is what I  
intend to do.


Cheers,

-j


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