Re: [Mailman-Users] Posting problems to all users of our mailing list...

2005-10-26 Thread John W. Baxter
On 10/25/05 8:09 PM, Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 ISPs do lots of things with mail besides delivering it or rejecting it.
 Some ISPs will just silently discard mail they don't like. Thus in
 these cases, you won't see a bounce and the recipient won't see the
 mail and the ISP may not admit that this has happened. ISPs tend to
 think that it's to their advantage to protect their users from spam
 even if it means discarding some desired mail.

The above is part of the destruction of email that the spammers have
accomplished.

Note that it's not just the ISP.  We regularly get support calls about mail
not being received, when the logs clearly show that the message was
deposited into the user's mailbox and later picked up by the user's machine.
Something on the user's machine (our users primarily run Windows of some
vintage) has filed, dropped, or done whatever to the message.

  --John


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Posting problems to all users of our mailing list...

2005-10-26 Thread JC Dill
John W. Baxter wrote:
 Note that it's not just the ISP.  We regularly get support calls about mail
 not being received, when the logs clearly show that the message was
 deposited into the user's mailbox and later picked up by the user's machine.
 Something on the user's machine (our users primarily run Windows of some
 vintage) has filed, dropped, or done whatever to the message.

I have found that in most such cases it's PEBKAC.

jc


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[Mailman-Users] Posting problems to all users of our mailing list...

2005-10-25 Thread Troy Cranford
Morning All,
Fairly long story so please bear with me.  I am the webmaster for our local
parent teachers origination's web page.  One of our duties is to send a
weekly email to about 550 users with current school happenings.  Since it's
inception last year my Mailman mail list has not reached all users.  I've
worked with several of our users to diagnose the problem with no success.  I
find no correlation at all with the users...some are Road Runner, AOL, SBC
Global etc.  I've asked all to check their SPAM folders...nothing.  
 
My installation is through a shared web host so I don't have access to any
of the Mailman configuration files.  
 
It got to the point where I just switched web hosts (now bluehost.com) to
see if we could resolve the problem.  Now I seem to get better coverage of
the 550 users and, in fact, am now sending to some of the users that were
not getting our posts before but I'm still not hitting everyone.
 
Any ideas from ANYONE would be greatly appreciated.  My web host's support
is next to useless but if someone has something for me to ask I'll send in
the support request.
 
TIA,
-Troy
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Posting problems to all users of our mailing list...

2005-10-25 Thread Mark Sapiro
Troy Cranford wrote:
 
It got to the point where I just switched web hosts (now bluehost.com) to
see if we could resolve the problem.  Now I seem to get better coverage of
the 550 users and, in fact, am now sending to some of the users that were
not getting our posts before but I'm still not hitting everyone.
 
Any ideas from ANYONE would be greatly appreciated.  My web host's support
is next to useless but if someone has something for me to ask I'll send in
the support request.


I assume you've checked that everyone is a non-digest subscriber and
that all have delivery enabled (fairly easy to check from the list
roster page, at least for non-hidden members).

What I would do, if I can't see logs and might not be able to get
support to look at them for me is on the bounce processing page, make
sure that bounce_processing is on and all the notifications are on
(and make sure I have a valid 'owner' e-mail so I'll get the
notifications). Then set bounce_score_threshold to 0.5. This will make
the first bounce disable the user (or send a probe to disable the
user). The owner will be notified and receive a copy of the bounce.
Then, after a day or two, set the bounce_score_threshold back to a
reasonable value and re-enable the disabled users.

What this accomplishes is it gets you a copy of the bounce notice for
each mail user that bounced, and you may then use that information to
follow up on why.

Some other general thoughts.

How do you know who's not getting the mail? This is generally not easy
to determine reliably. Even when people complain that they didn't get
something, it isn't always true.

ISPs do lots of things with mail besides delivering it or rejecting it.
Some ISPs will just silently discard mail they don't like. Thus in
these cases, you won't see a bounce and the recipient won't see the
mail and the ISP may not admit that this has happened. ISPs tend to
think that it's to their advantage to protect their users from spam
even if it means discarding some desired mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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