[Mailman-Users] Question regarding message-ids

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Ralf Hildebrandt via Mailman-Users writes:

 > I'm sure I can hack something up in Postfix, but is there an easy
 > way (tm)?

Get rid of Exchange. :-)

This is not something Mailman should implement in my opinion.  The
author decided to send a single message to multiple addresses.
Evidently that author considers it to be the same message regardless
of which list delivers it.  I also don't think it makes for a healthy
community based on the points below.  It may work fine in some special
cases, but it seems likely to cause a lot of confusion.

Now, as Richard Damon points out, whether two messages should have the
same Message-ID is not a matter of identical content, it's whether
users consider them "the same".  Since a mailing list is an
intermediary, that is, it removes a message from the Internet mail
system, processes it, and then reinjects it, the mailing list can
claim to be the originator of the distributed post in some sense
(though obviously not in the sense of copyright law!)  So if you want
to make this decision for all subscribers, you can do that.

However, here are some points to consider.
- Are the recipients who subscribe to both lists unanimous in their
  desire to duplicate messages in this way?  If not, are the
  individuals who want distinct messages "more important"?
- Unless you are very clear about this change, some recipients may
  think the authors are sending multiple copies, and ask them to
  desist.
- Anybody who uses reply-all will also have their posts duplicated in
  the same way.  This will create a weird proliferation of threads,
  which I doubt will display sanely in most mail clients.
- It will very likely cause more than usual redundant posts because
  even people who are subscribed to both will be missing most of the
  potentially relevant replies.

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[Mailman-Users] Question regarding message-ids

[Ralf Hildebrandt via Mailman-Users]

We have a mm2 installation. A user is regular memeber on two lists:

* A mail goes to both lists.
* That mail is distributed via both lists.
* The mail is delivered twice (to an exchange server), in two SMTP
  sessions, to the same user adress. I get two positive delivery confirmations.
* since the message-id is identical, exchange is performing duplicate message 
elimination

Since the mails are in fact NOT identical (different Subject -- each
lists adds their own [foo] and [bar] prefix), I'd very much prefer a
new message-id for the distributed mails.

I'm sure I can hack something up in Postfix, but is there an easy way (tm)?

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Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin
Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netz | Netzwerk-Administration
Invalidenstraße 120/121 | D-10115 Berlin

Tel. +49 30 450 570 155
ralf.hildebra...@charite.de
https://www.charite.de
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[Mailman-Users] Question about content filtering in message body

[Scott High]

Hi,

Newbie, so please bear with me.


I'm looking for a way to content filter the text of the message body (i.e. 
blacklist bad words, etc) to a list. I've looked at Content Filtering, but that 
appears to be associated with message type, not message text? And Topics 
filters appears to just be focused on the header and subject information? Can 
someone point me in the right direction? Thanks!


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[Mailman-Users] Question: If the list name and a member address are known, can foreign mails be channeled into the list?

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Thomas F. Holz writes:

 > If I know the address of a list member and the address of the mailing 
 > list, I seem to be allowed to write in the list in his place.
 > Is this correct?

Yes, as far as Mailman 2 goes.  Mailman 2 doesn't know anything about
a user except their address.  Mailman 3 knows a little bit more, but
Mailman doesn't know how to authenticate posters by digital signatures
(and you probably don't want to put your subscribers through that
pain, either).

 > 1)---
 > First, I can fake the sender address. If the original sender address and 
 > mail with the forgery are sent from the same domain, then this is not 
 > prevented by the MTA (SPF/DKIM check), is it?

Not by standard MTAs, which only make the appropriate check if the
sending domain has set a restrictive DMARC policy.  But you should be
able to create an MTA or spam filter rule that checks for from
alignment yourself.

 > With freemailers like gmail, web.de, gmx etc. this doesn't seem so 
 > impossible to me (i.e. that listmember and bad guy write from the same 
 > domain).

That won't work from gmail.  Gmail will only allow you to send From an
address if you can prove you own it, either by using it to log in to
Gmail, or by reading a one-time token from that mailbox and sending it
back to Gmail.  I can't speak for the other freemailers, but I imagine
they work the same.  And if you send it from somewhere else, it won't
have Gmail's DKIM, so from alignment will fail.

 > If I write to the mailing list from a valid address (which is NOT a 
 > member of the mailing list), and specify a "return-to" in the header 
 > with a listmember's address, then that gets waved through to my mailing 
 > list as well. My mailman lists here seem to ignore the "From" address 
 > completely then.

That is configurable on a sitewide basis.  Add the SENDER_HEADERS
variable to mm_cfg.py, and change it to ('from') or ('from', None).

# Membership tests for posting purposes are usually performed by looking at a
# set of headers, passing the test if any of their values match a member of
# the list.  Headers are checked in the order given in this variable.  The
# value None means use the From_ (envelope sender) header.  Field names are
# case insensitive.
SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')

 > Have I understood this correctly?

Not 100%, but basically so.

 > And if this is as described, how can I prevent this?

1.  In practice, as long as you do normal content-based spam
filtering, this seems to mostly be a theoretical problem even if
you do nothing special about checking senders.  Maybe you (or your
users) have nastier than usual enemies though, you have to decide
that.
2.  For a little more security and transparency, remove reply-to and
sender from SENDER_HEADERS.  This will inconvenience some user
occasionally, but it should be rare in most user populations.  It
won't stop spoofing, but it will be easy to see it and the victims
will complain.  This may do the trick depending on what the goal
of the spoof is (and if the spoofer is a a bot).
3.  For maximum security with little inconvenience to users, have your
MTA check for From alignment.  You can either reject on that basis
(which will inconvenience some users substantially, I suspect) or
you can have the MTA add a header to the message, and have Mailman
hold the mail for human moderation if alignment fails.
It would also be possible to have Mailman do this but it's more
efficient to have the MTA do it.

I believe some users in the past have mentioned 3rd-party patches to
check user's digital signatures, but that's quite compute-intensive,
and requires that you teach your users to sign their own email.  I'm
pretty sure they won't like that. ;-)

Steve

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[Mailman-Users] Question: If the list name and a member address are known, can foreign mails be channeled into the list?

[Thomas F. Holz]

Hello to the round.
Unfortunately I could not find a better place for my questions, nor did 
I find any answers within the docs or by Google.

So here it is. The questions refer to Mailman 2.1.23.

If I know the address of a list member and the address of the mailing 
list, I seem to be allowed to write in the list in his place.

Is this correct?

It seems to me that this is possible in at least two ways with the lists 
I am responsible for, and I don't like that:


1)---
First, I can fake the sender address. If the original sender address and 
mail with the forgery are sent from the same domain, then this is not 
prevented by the MTA (SPF/DKIM check), is it?
With freemailers like gmail, web.de, gmx etc. this doesn't seem so 
impossible to me (i.e. that listmember and bad guy write from the same 
domain).


2)---
Second, even more strange to me:
If I write to the mailing list from a valid address (which is NOT a 
member of the mailing list), and specify a "return-to" in the header 
with a listmember's address, then that gets waved through to my mailing 
list as well. My mailman lists here seem to ignore the "From" address 
completely then.
In this case, it doesn't even matter which domain the bad guy writes 
from, as long as the return address stands up to the usual checks 
(SPF/DKIM/DMARC).


Have I understood this correctly?
And if this is as described, how can I prevent this?

Background: I have inherited a larger Sendmail server and several dozen 
Mailman lists. Unfortunately, migration to Mailman3 is not an option (at 
least in the foreseeable future). So I have to live with the given - and 
annoy others with stupid questions from time to time. Sorry for that.


In advance with thanks and greetings from Germany,
Thomas

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[Mailman-Users] Question

[Papa ONYXMA]

Couple of questions.

1.  Should we be sending to everyone using bl...@onyxma.com  or
bl...@lists.onyxma.com

2.  When a person sends, even though they are in the "list", they do not
get a copy in their inbox.  Is there a setting we can change so the sender
gets a copy too if they are in the full list?   I know they have what is in
the sent box, but we'd like a sender to get a copy as well in their inbox
since they are on the list.

3.  Occasionally when we send to the blast everyone does not get the
notice.  It's rare that it happens, but it does.  When it happens only a
handful of people don't get it (not in their spam/junk either).   Advice?


*Papa "Pap" ONYX (Marcus Allen)*
ONYX Mid-Atlantic
ONYX National Council Member
papa.ony...@gmail.com 
571-215-4683 cell
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[Mailman-Users] Question on outputting all lists and list owners and a process for batch disabling of lists without an owner

[John Lake]

Howdy!

To start with, a belated thank you is in order for Mark Sapiro –I leveraged 
your suggestion for batch changing list owners (in our case, changing list 
owner from owner “a” to owner “b” for 700 lists)  from your post here:

https://answers.launchpad.net/mailman/+question/111591  


Our security department has asked me to canvas all of our lists (4,237!)—and if 
a list owner value is not defined they want me to disable the list.


  1.  Can I combine the list_lists and list_owners commands to output both 
(hopefully linked) values as a .csv?
  2.  Is there a script that any of you have leveraged to batch disable lists 
without a defined owner?


Thanks in advance for the assistance, I really appreciate this community as I 
don’t have much Linux Fu and the GNU resources and assistance have been 
invaluable!

Best,

John
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[Mailman-Users] Question on /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME/attachments/

[Bader, Robert (Bob)]

I see files in var/lib/mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME/attachments/.  I did 
some searching and found that :


The stored attachments have been scrubbed from the 'plain' format
digest. This happens whether or not anyone actually subscribes to the
'plain' format digest. The only way to avoid it with configuration
settings is to set Digest options -> digestable to No (i.e. disable
digests).

Otherwise, you could set up a cron to periodically remove them, but
then if you actually have 'plain' digest sebscribers, you'll break the
links in their digests.


Some of the lists that that files in attachments does not have archived turned 
on and no users do not have digest set.

So if I under stand this these attachments are kept because under “digest 
options” “digestible is set to “on”. Is that correct? So even if no user have 
digest on , the list keeps attachments?


So what is the best way to clear these files, can I just clear out the 
attachments directory?  If no users have digest set , then this will be un 
notable. But if user have digest on and it is set to PLAIN, then that could be 
an issue?








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[Mailman-Users] Question on /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME/attachments/

[Bader, Robert (Bob)]

I see files in var/lib/mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME/attachments/.  I did 
some searching and found that :



The stored attachments have been scrubbed from the 'plain' format
digest. This happens whether or not anyone actually subscribes to the
'plain' format digest. The only way to avoid it with configuration
settings is to set Digest options -> digestable to No (i.e. disable
digests).

Otherwise, you could set up a cron to periodically remove them, but
then if you actually have 'plain' digest sebscribers, you'll break the
links in their digests.


Some of the lists that that files in attachments does not have archived turned 
on and no users do not have digest set.

So if I under stand this these attachments are kept because under “digest 
options” “digestible is set to “on”. Is that correct? So even if no user have 
digest on , the list keeps attachments?


So what is the best way to clear these files, can I just clear out the 
attachments directory?  If no users have digest set , then this will be un 
notable. But if user have digest on and it is set to PLAIN, then that could be 
an issue?








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[Mailman-Users] Question on /var/lib/mailman/spam

[Bader, Robert (Bob)]

I see messages in /var/lib/mailman/spam.  I did some searching and found that :

When a moderator checks the "preserve message for site administrator"
box when handling a held message, the message is put in that spam/
directory.
But how do I properly access them clear them out? Is this done via the web 
interface or just the command line? I admin the server, but each list has its 
own administrator. I assume they checked "preserve message for site 
administrator" accidentally.





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Re: [Mailman-Users] question about email automation

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 5/30/19 8:04 AM, Fabian A. Santiago wrote:

Hello,


Hi,

i run a mailing list on mm 2.x. periodically i send out an event 
opening email to the list. this is typically followed by a conclusion 
email at the end of a specific period.


How specific is the period?  Is the end known at the start, i.e. 3 
months, or is it dependent on when a project completes?


in the interim period i would like to send out reminders of the event 
to the list but would like to automate this task.  i want the reminders 
to be triggered by my opening email and end with my conclusion email.


I don't know if it really matters, but please clarify if you're talking 
about one list that multiple events are discussed on or if it's a 
different list per event.



has anyone done this and how?


I have not.

I think one list for multiple events would be simpler from an automation 
point of view.  I say this because I'd subscribe a utility account that 
would receive copies of all messages and be able to parse them for 
specific keywords (event  starts , etc.).


I would likely have this script set up (Unix) at jobs (vs cron) as I 
think programmatically scheduling them might be easier.  The at job can 
send the emails (typical script sending email) at the specified times.


If the duration of the project is known ahead of time, you can 
pre-schedule multiple at jobs and be done with it.


If the duration of the project is not known ahead of time, I think you 
will need to have each reminder iteration schedule the next at job.  You 
will also need to have the utility account be a bit smarter and look for 
the end of job / event / project announcements.  -  In this case, I'd 
likely enhance the at job to look for a (flag) file or contents to 
determine if it should send the reminder or not.  That way, you can 
finish a job / even / project and make sure that there's not 
accidentally spurious reminders that get sent or worry about cleaning 
them up by simply removing the (flag) file or changing it's contents.


I know that it's crude.  But it will get the job done.


i've looked at ifttt and zapier but wasn't sure. thanks.


I'm not familiar with them.  Sorry.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
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[Mailman-Users] question about email automation

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Fabian A. Santiago writes:

 > i run a mailing list on mm 2.x. periodically i send out an event
 > opening email to the list. this is typically followed by a
 > conclusion email at the end of a specific period. in the interim
 > period i would like to send out reminders of the event to the list
 > but would like to automate this task.  i want the reminders to be
 > triggered by my opening email and end with my conclusion email.

Mailman 2 depends on cron for periodic activity.  How to set up a cron
job depends on your system.  I'd guess the 'ifttt' and 'zapier'
utilities depend on cron as well, but I've never heard of them before.

Even if the scripting described below sounds painful, perhaps a
description of the process will help make sense of the utilities you
mentioned.

There are two basic ways to do this, one of which involves Mailman
itself, and one which does not.  The one that does not involves
creating a script, which you attach to a specific mailbox (this is MTA
specific).  Then you send the announcement mail to that mailbox, which
invokes the script.  The script places the reminder message in a
specific place (formatted as a reply to the announcement message), and
sends the announcement mail to the list address.  Then the cron job
triggers periodically, and sends out any messages that are in the
specific place (this is MTA specific, but "sendmail -t < message"
works on most systems).  You also send the conclusion email to that
place, as a reply to the announcement message.  The script parses out
the In-Reply-To message-id, scans the specific place for messages that
are replies to that message-id, and deletes them.  Then it sends the
conclusion email to the list address.

The other is basically the same, except that you send the announcement
and conclusion mails to the list address, marked as one of your
announcements in some way.  Basically the same code as above, with the
addition of first checking if the message is an announcement or a
conclusion (if not, it does nothing), is added to Mailman as a
Handler.  (This can be done globally, or in a list-specific way.)

Perhaps one of the utilities you mentioned can provide the script or
even much of the MTA and cron interfacing.

The scripting itself can be pretty simple, or it could be medium
complex, depending on how customized the reminder message should be
for a given announcement, and how free-form the announcements are.  In
the simplest case, the reminder message is just the original
announcement message with the Message-ID copied to the In-Reply-To
field and the Message-ID field deleted (either Mailman or the MTA will
add one).

Steve

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[Mailman-Users] question about email automation

[Fabian A. Santiago]

Hello,

this is unrelated to using mm itself but was wondering if anyone here
had any insight they could share;

i run a mailing list on mm 2.x. periodically i send out an event opening
email
to the list. this is typically followed by a conclusion email at the end
of a specific period. in the interim period i would like to send out
reminders of the event to the list but would like to automate this task.
i want the reminders to be triggered by my opening email and
end with my conclusion email.

has anyone done this and how? i've looked at ifttt and zapier but wasn't
sure. thanks.

-- 

Fabian S.

OpenPGP:

0xA1250C2112D2D0E53E5BD964BBB5B16CFB701CD7


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Re: [Mailman-Users] question on bounce processing

[Mark Sapiro]

On 1/4/19 12:21 PM, Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
> Thanks Mark.
> 
> Is there a way to have the bounce notification and info be sent to a
> different email address (like me instead of the list owner)? It would be
> too technical to have them sent to the owner.


The best you can do is add your own address to the list's 'owner'
attribute. Then you will get the notices too along with all other owner
notifications. Anything else requires modifying the definition of the
__sendAdminBounceNotice() method in Mailman/Bouncer.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] question on bounce processing

[Ricardo Kleemann]

Thanks Mark.

Is there a way to have the bounce notification and info be sent to a
different email address (like me instead of the list owner)? It would be
too technical to have them sent to the owner.

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 11:59 AM Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 1/4/19 9:55 AM, Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
> >
> > Where should I look at for trying to figure out why particular members
> are
> > being dropped off? I have members receiving the excessive bounce messages
> > but I'm not finding much in the mail log relative to excessive bounces
> for
> > the email address (I'm probably not looking for the correct bounce lines
> in
> > the log)
> >
> > I'm running Mailman 2.1.26 on Ubuntu 18.04 and postfix
>
>
> Ensure that Bounce processing -> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is set
> to Yes. Then when the user's delivery is disabled, the list owner will
> receive a notice with a copy of the bounce DSN.
>
> Or, with Mailman 2.1.19+ you can set
> bounce_notify_owner_on_bounce_increment to Yes to get a notice every
> time a user's bounce score is incremented.
>
> This info should also be in the mail log if the bounces are reported by
> the local MTA, but not if they are reported by a remote MTA. With
> Postfix, look for lines with "status=bounce"
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] question on bounce processing

[Mark Sapiro]

On 1/4/19 9:55 AM, Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
> 
> Where should I look at for trying to figure out why particular members are
> being dropped off? I have members receiving the excessive bounce messages
> but I'm not finding much in the mail log relative to excessive bounces for
> the email address (I'm probably not looking for the correct bounce lines in
> the log)
> 
> I'm running Mailman 2.1.26 on Ubuntu 18.04 and postfix


Ensure that Bounce processing -> bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is set
to Yes. Then when the user's delivery is disabled, the list owner will
receive a notice with a copy of the bounce DSN.

Or, with Mailman 2.1.19+ you can set
bounce_notify_owner_on_bounce_increment to Yes to get a notice every
time a user's bounce score is incremented.

This info should also be in the mail log if the bounces are reported by
the local MTA, but not if they are reported by a remote MTA. With
Postfix, look for lines with "status=bounce"

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[Mailman-Users] question on bounce processing

[Ricardo Kleemann]

Hi,

Where should I look at for trying to figure out why particular members are
being dropped off? I have members receiving the excessive bounce messages
but I'm not finding much in the mail log relative to excessive bounces for
the email address (I'm probably not looking for the correct bounce lines in
the log)

I'm running Mailman 2.1.26 on Ubuntu 18.04 and postfix

thanks
Ricardo
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question re. moving a mailing list

[Richard Johnson]

Ok, it looks as if specifying my "General Options" -> "Host name this list 
prefers for email" as "mischievous.us" will force the From address on all 
outgoing messages to say "testl...@mischievous.us".  Since that matches with 
the original To address, then a Reply-all will not produce two addresses.

I think this will work for me and then when I'm ready to really move totally 
over, I'll just change it.

Thanks for the help!

/raj


> On Sep 14, 2018, at 10:19 AM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> 
> On 09/14/2018 09:43 AM, Richard Johnson wrote:
>> 
>> My issue is that the mail sent out says:
>> 
>> From: testlist@peacock.place
>> To: testl...@mischievous.us
>> Cc: 
>> 
>> such that when I do a Reply-all, I get a message addressed as:
>> 
>> To: testlist@peacock.place
>> Cc: testl...@mischievous.us
> 
> 
> Right. Your original message was To: testl...@mischievous.us so when you
> reply-all, your MUA includes that address in the recipients of the reply.
> 
> 
>> I notice that I don't seem to receive any duplicate messages.  Perhaps 
>> Mailman is taking care of that for me, which is great!
> 
> 
> Mailman is not doing that. Possibly something is dropping one of the
> messages because of the duplicate Message-ID
> 
> 
>> I had expected that my configuration in /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py 
>> of:
>> 
>> MTA = 'Postfix'
>> OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
>> RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME = 'X-My-Recip'
>> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'peacock.place'
>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'peacock.place'
>> add_virtualhost('mischievous.us', 'peacock.place')
>> add_virtualhost('peacock.place', 'peacock.place')
>> add_virtualhost('www.peacock.place', 'peacock.place')
>> 
>> would have maybe told it that "mischievous.us" is another way of sending to 
>> this same mailing list and thus it wouldn't include the CC, but maybe I'm 
>> missing something?
> 
> 
> What tells Mailman that "mischievous.us" is another way of sending to
> this same mailing list is putting testl...@mischievous.us in Privacy
> options... -> Recipient filters -> acceptable_aliases of the
> testlist@peacock.place list.
> 
> Your add_virtualhost('mischievous.us', 'peacock.place') and
> add_virtualhost('www.peacock.place', 'peacock.place') have nothing to do
> with this.
> 
> However, as far as I can see, it is not Mailman putting
> testl...@mischievous.us in the Cc: of your reply-all. It is your MUA.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question re. moving a mailing list

[Mark Sapiro]

On 09/14/2018 09:43 AM, Richard Johnson wrote:
> 
> My issue is that the mail sent out says:
> 
> From: testlist@peacock.place
> To: testl...@mischievous.us
> Cc: 
> 
> such that when I do a Reply-all, I get a message addressed as:
> 
> To: testlist@peacock.place
> Cc: testl...@mischievous.us


Right. Your original message was To: testl...@mischievous.us so when you
reply-all, your MUA includes that address in the recipients of the reply.


> I notice that I don't seem to receive any duplicate messages.  Perhaps 
> Mailman is taking care of that for me, which is great!


Mailman is not doing that. Possibly something is dropping one of the
messages because of the duplicate Message-ID


> I had expected that my configuration in /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py 
> of:
> 
> MTA = 'Postfix'
> OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
> RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME = 'X-My-Recip'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'peacock.place'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'peacock.place'
> add_virtualhost('mischievous.us', 'peacock.place')
> add_virtualhost('peacock.place', 'peacock.place')
> add_virtualhost('www.peacock.place', 'peacock.place')
> 
> would have maybe told it that "mischievous.us" is another way of sending to 
> this same mailing list and thus it wouldn't include the CC, but maybe I'm 
> missing something?


What tells Mailman that "mischievous.us" is another way of sending to
this same mailing list is putting testl...@mischievous.us in Privacy
options... -> Recipient filters -> acceptable_aliases of the
testlist@peacock.place list.

Your add_virtualhost('mischievous.us', 'peacock.place') and
add_virtualhost('www.peacock.place', 'peacock.place') have nothing to do
with this.

However, as far as I can see, it is not Mailman putting
testl...@mischievous.us in the Cc: of your reply-all. It is your MUA.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] Question re. moving a mailing list

[Richard Johnson]

I have my original test mailing list "testl...@mischievous.us".  I copied it to 
be "testlist@peacock.place" and then aliased "testlist" on mischievous.us to go 
to "testlist@peacock.place".  This works fine.  My "General Options" has "Munge 
From", so the From address always says "testlist@peacock.place", when 
peacock.place is sending out the messages.  This works fine.

My issue is that the mail sent out says:

From: testlist@peacock.place
To: testl...@mischievous.us
Cc: 

such that when I do a Reply-all, I get a message addressed as:

To: testlist@peacock.place
Cc: testl...@mischievous.us

I notice that I don't seem to receive any duplicate messages.  Perhaps Mailman 
is taking care of that for me, which is great!  I had expected that my 
configuration in /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py of:

MTA = 'Postfix'
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME = 'X-My-Recip'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'peacock.place'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'peacock.place'
add_virtualhost('mischievous.us', 'peacock.place')
add_virtualhost('peacock.place', 'peacock.place')
add_virtualhost('www.peacock.place', 'peacock.place')

would have maybe told it that "mischievous.us" is another way of sending to 
this same mailing list and thus it wouldn't include the CC, but maybe I'm 
missing something?

/raj

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[Mailman-Users] Question about spam directory

[Rosenbaum, Larry M.]

There are several files in our Mailman spam directory /var/lib/mailman/spam. 
These have filenames like
spam-listname-number.msg
Some of them are zero length; some are not.

Where are these coming from? The spam filters are set to the default values, 
which shouldn't be blocking anything.


Larry M. Rosenbaum
Oak Ridge National Laboratory


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about spam directory

[Mark Sapiro]

On 09/04/2015 09:39 AM, Rosenbaum, Larry M. wrote:
> There are several files in our Mailman spam directory /var/lib/mailman/spam. 
> These have filenames like
> spam-listname-number.msg
> Some of them are zero length; some are not.
> 
> Where are these coming from? The spam filters are set to the default values, 
> which shouldn't be blocking anything.


When a moderator checks the "preserve message for site administrator"
box when handling a held message, the message is put in that spam/
directory.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about confirming each email for one subscriber

[Tom Coradeschi]

 On 28 May 2015, at 5:17 PM, Nancy C cyberg...@eastlink.ca wrote:
 
 Hi
 
 
 
 We have a member who is very computer / email illiterate  continually sends
 emails that should not get through
 
 to the group as a whole.
 
 
 
 Is there a setting that could be made so her emails always come to the
 listkeepers first?

Sure: Put that user’s account in moderation.

—
tom coradeschi
tc...@skylands.ibmwr.org

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[Mailman-Users] Question about confirming each email for one subscriber

[Nancy C]

Hi

 

We have a member who is very computer / email illiterate  continually sends
emails that should not get through

to the group as a whole.

 

Is there a setting that could be made so her emails always come to the
listkeepers first?

 

Thank you for any help :)

 

Nancy

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about confirming each email for one subscriber

[Bryan Blackwell]

Easy to do - check the mod (for moderate) box next to their name on the 
member list, and set the list so moderated messages are held for review under 
Privacy options...  Sender filters  member_moderation_action.

--Bryan

 On May 28, 2015, at 5:17 PM, Nancy C cyberg...@eastlink.ca wrote:
 
 Hi
 
 
 
 We have a member who is very computer / email illiterate  continually sends
 emails that should not get through
 
 to the group as a whole.
 
 
 
 Is there a setting that could be made so her emails always come to the
 listkeepers first?
 
 
 
 Thank you for any help :)
 
 
 
 Nancy
 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Error: 'The list overview page has been disabled temporarily'

[Mark Sapiro]

On August 26, 2014 7:41:14 AM PDT, Peter Fiala pet...@wcasa.org wrote:
I thought our public lists were showing on our website but I guess not.
Any ideas on how to enable the overview page?



The subject message is something added by your hosting service. You will have 
to contact them for help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. [Unpaid endorsement]
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[Mailman-Users] Question about Error: 'The list overview page has been disabled temporarily'

[Peter Fiala]

I thought our public lists were showing on our website but I guess not. Any 
ideas on how to enable the overview page?

Thanks,
Peter



Peter Fiala
Technology  Events Coordinator
Wisconsin Coalition Against Sexual Assault (WCASA)
2801 W. Beltline Hwy., Ste 202, Madison, WI 53713
Telephone: 608-257-1516; Direct: 608-284-5494
Fax: 608-257-2150
Website: www.wcasa.orghttp://www.wcasa.org/

Creating the Social Change Necessary to End Sexual Violence
Please consider a holiday gift to help us continue our important work into 
2014.  You can make donations to WCASA directly online by visiting our 
websitehttp://www.wcasa.org/.
[link to wcasa's Facebook page]http://www.facebook.com/wcasa [link to wcasa's 
Twitter feed] http://twitter.com/wcasa_vpcc  
[https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS8fWOIOHiKkDuBEon9eoc4_Rkp-EW-KLKXvst0VMmewXeOO9ZF]
 http://www.youtube.com/user/wcasavpcc
Registration Open
9/25: Regional SART Meetinghttp://www.wcasa.org/pages/Intervention_SART.php
10/8: WCASA Webinar Series: ALL*http://www.wcasa.org/file_open.php?id=814
Save the Date
9/10-11: Fall Directors 
Meetinghttp://www.wcasa.org/pages/Events-DVSATribal-Program-Director-Meeting.php
10/4: Survivors  Allies Fall 
Meetinghttp://www.wcasa.org/pages/Events-Surviviors--Allies.php
11/3-6: SAVAS
http://www.wcasa.org/pages/Events_SAVAS.php11/13: WCASA Annual 
Meetinghttp://www.wcasa.org/pages/Events-Annual-Meeting-2014.php





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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about genaliases

[Mark Sapiro]

On 07/08/2014 01:33 PM, Kamlesh Rao wrote:
 
 Is there an option to run 'genaliases' per Distribution list on a on demand 
 basis. I believe the default behavior is that it checks all the lists in the 
 installation directory and sets up the aliases in the file 
 /etc/mailman/aliases and aliases.db


There is no such genaliases option, but you could put the following 3
lines in a file named make_alias.py in Mailman's bin/ directory

from Mailman.MTA.Postfix import create
def make_alias(mlist):
create(mlist)

and then the command

bin/withlist -r make_alias LISTNAME

will create the aliases for LISTNAME.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] Question about genaliases

[Kamlesh Rao]

Hi,
I am migrating the mailman distribution lists from one instance to the other.

To reserve/block the DL names, I have copied over the all  'lists' folders to 
the new instance.

Is there an option to run 'genaliases' per Distribution list on a on demand 
basis. I believe the default behavior is that it checks all the lists in the 
installation directory and sets up the aliases in the file /etc/mailman/aliases 
and aliases.db

I am running v2.1.12 of mailman with postfix.

Regards,
Kamlesh
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages.

[Robert Heller]

At Tue, 01 Jul 2014 20:34:15 -0700 Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote:

 
 On 07/01/2014 07:12 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
  Mark Sapiro writes:
  
At 05:00 local time this morning my Mailman installation sent password
reminders to 65 comcast.net addresses. Of these, exactly 1 bounced with

550 5.1.1 u...@comcast.net Account not available (in reply to RCPT TO
command)
  
  OK, so we know Comcast will admit that a user doesn't exist.  Is this
  a personalized list?  Maybe Comcast does something different with a
  multiple recipient RCPT TO that contains multiple invalid users?
 
 
 These and the OP's were all password reminders which are all
 'personalized' and sent to a single RCPT TO
 
 
  Also, note that this message, presumably a quote from comcast.net up
  to the open paren, includes an extended status code whereas the OP's
  error did not.  I wonder if his MTA was actually talking to
  comcast.net?  Maybe somebody gave him a comcast.com address by
  mistake or something like that?
 
 
 Good observation.

All three of the comcast bounces were @cable.comcast.com addresses.  Other 
comcast address (all @comcast.net) went through fine.  The @cable.comcast.com 
were working for sometime.  The list in question has had extreemly low volume 
recently, and was never a really high volume list.

 

-- 
Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software-- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments


   
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages.

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Robert Heller writes:

  All three of the comcast bounces were @cable.comcast.com addresses.
  Other comcast address (all @comcast.net) went through fine.  The
  @cable.comcast.com were working for sometime.

Well, comcast.net is participating in DMARC, while neither comcast.com
not cable.comcast.com are.  I suspect that they've decommissioned
those domains for incoming mail completely, and so assume that any
mail going to such addresses is spam based on old lists.

Steve
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[Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages.

[Robert Heller]

I am the site admin of a server that hosts a bunch of Mailman lists and on the 
1st of the month Mailman sends out its monthly reminder messages.  Some of 
these messages are bouncing.  Some are *obviously* for people who have changed 
E-Mail providers (the bunces say 'User Unknown' or 'Mailbox full').  But some 
have 'odd' rejection reasons and I wonder what it really going on.

Comcast is bouncing with the message:
reason: 554 Transaction Failed Spam Message not queued.

Is this Comcast's way of 'hiding' the fact that the E-Mail address is no 
longer valid? That is, does Comcast consider E-Mail to unknown users spam?


-- 
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Deepwoods Software-- http://www.deepsoft.com/
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/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments



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[Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages.

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Robert Heller writes:

  Comcast is bouncing with the message:
  reason: 554 Transaction Failed Spam Message not queued.
  
  Is this Comcast's way of 'hiding' the fact that the E-Mail address
  is no longer valid? That is, does Comcast consider E-Mail to
  unknown users spam?

How would anybody except a Comcast postmaster know?  If they're doing
something that antisocial, would they admit it publicly?  To diagnose,
I suggest investigating questions like the following:

  - Are other Comcast addresses being accepted for delivery?
  - Is it concentrated on a particular list (vs. there is a subset of
addresses being bounced that way for all lists)?
  - Are any of them members you recognize as being recently active?
  - Are any Comcast addresses bouncing as non-existent?  (Note that
RFC 5321 itself gives no valid recipients as a reason for a 554
status return, vs. 550, which is a generic I can't/won't do that
status.)

If you have strong evidence that it's true (the answers are yes, no,
no, and no), my suggestion is to post to your lists explaining the
situation and your conclusion that such failures mean a non-existent
subscriber, and that to protect your lists from being put on a Comcast
known spammer list, you are disabling/unsubscribing all such addresses
immediately.  Direct those suffering from collateral damage to talk to
their ISP about mending its evil ways (after reinstating them, of
course).


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages.

[Barry S. Finkel]

On 7/1/2014 6:50 AM, Robert Heller wrote:

I am the site admin of a server that hosts a bunch of Mailman lists and on the
1st of the month Mailman sends out its monthly reminder messages.  Some of
these messages are bouncing.  Some are *obviously* for people who have changed
E-Mail providers (the bunces say 'User Unknown' or 'Mailbox full').  But some
have 'odd' rejection reasons and I wonder what it really going on.

Comcast is bouncing with the message:
 reason: 554 Transaction Failed Spam Message not queued.

Is this Comcast's way of 'hiding' the fact that the E-Mail address is no
longer valid? That is, does Comcast consider E-Mail to unknown users spam?





My interpretation of the message is this - Comcast, for some unstated
reason, thinks that this mail is spam, so it is not going to accept
the message.  Without seeing the exact mail that was being sent,
I cannot tell what Comcast might have thought objectionable.

--Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages.

[Larry Finch]

On Jul 1, 2014, at 11:42 AM, Barry S. Finkel bsfin...@att.net wrote:

 On 7/1/2014 6:50 AM, Robert Heller wrote:
 I am the site admin of a server that hosts a bunch of Mailman lists and on 
 the
 1st of the month Mailman sends out its monthly reminder messages.  Some of
 these messages are bouncing.  Some are *obviously* for people who have 
 changed
 E-Mail providers (the bunces say 'User Unknown' or 'Mailbox full').  But some
 have 'odd' rejection reasons and I wonder what it really going on.
 
 Comcast is bouncing with the message:
 reason: 554 Transaction Failed Spam Message not queued.
 
 Is this Comcast's way of 'hiding' the fact that the E-Mail address is no
 longer valid? That is, does Comcast consider E-Mail to unknown users spam?
 
 
 

Comcast* will reject all list mail from a Yahoo or AOL member post based on 
those ISP’s DMARC p=reject policy. In other words, they honor the p=reject. 
Could this be your issue?

best regards,
Larry

*So will many other ISPs: SBC Global, ATT, Rogers, Earthlink, etc.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages.

[Robert Heller]

At Tue, 01 Jul 2014 10:42:13 -0500 Barry S. Finkel bsfin...@att.net wrote:

 
 On 7/1/2014 6:50 AM, Robert Heller wrote:
  I am the site admin of a server that hosts a bunch of Mailman lists and on 
  the
  1st of the month Mailman sends out its monthly reminder messages.  Some of
  these messages are bouncing.  Some are *obviously* for people who have 
  changed
  E-Mail providers (the bunces say 'User Unknown' or 'Mailbox full').  But 
  some
  have 'odd' rejection reasons and I wonder what it really going on.
 
  Comcast is bouncing with the message:
   reason: 554 Transaction Failed Spam Message not queued.
 
  Is this Comcast's way of 'hiding' the fact that the E-Mail address is no
  longer valid? That is, does Comcast consider E-Mail to unknown users spam?
 
 
 
 
 My interpretation of the message is this - Comcast, for some unstated
 reason, thinks that this mail is spam, so it is not going to accept
 the message.  Without seeing the exact mail that was being sent,
 I cannot tell what Comcast might have thought objectionable.

It was the monthly Mailman reminder message.

 
 --Barry Finkel
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages.

[Robert Heller]

At Tue, 1 Jul 2014 12:16:44 -0400 Larry Finch finc...@portadmiral.org wrote:

 
 
 On Jul 1, 2014, at 11:42 AM, Barry S. Finkel bsfin...@att.net wrote:
 
  On 7/1/2014 6:50 AM, Robert Heller wrote:
  I am the site admin of a server that hosts a bunch of Mailman lists and on 
  the
  1st of the month Mailman sends out its monthly reminder messages.  Some of
  these messages are bouncing.  Some are *obviously* for people who have 
  changed
  E-Mail providers (the bunces say 'User Unknown' or 'Mailbox full').  But 
  some
  have 'odd' rejection reasons and I wonder what it really going on.
  
  Comcast is bouncing with the message:
  reason: 554 Transaction Failed Spam Message not queued.
  
  Is this Comcast's way of 'hiding' the fact that the E-Mail address is no
  longer valid? That is, does Comcast consider E-Mail to unknown users spam?
  
  
  
 
 Comcast* will reject all list mail from a Yahoo or AOL member post based on
 those ISP´s DMARC p=reject policy. In other words, they honor the p=reject.
 Could this be your issue?

No. As I stated above, it was a Mailman monthly reminder message. 

 
 best regards,
 Larry
 
 *So will many other ISPs: SBC Global, ATT, Rogers, Earthlink, etc.
 
 --
 Larry Finch
 finc...@portadmiral.org
 
 
 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages.

[Peter Shute]

Do you know if any of the reminders to Comcast addresses are getting through?

Peter Shute

 -Original Message-
 From: Mailman-Users 
 [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+pshute=nuw.org...@python.org] 
 On Behalf Of Robert Heller
 Sent: Tuesday, 1 July 2014 9:50 PM
 To: Mailman Users
 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages.
 
 I am the site admin of a server that hosts a bunch of Mailman 
 lists and on the 1st of the month Mailman sends out its 
 monthly reminder messages.  Some of these messages are 
 bouncing.  Some are *obviously* for people who have changed 
 E-Mail providers (the bunces say 'User Unknown' or 'Mailbox 
 full').  But some have 'odd' rejection reasons and I wonder 
 what it really going on.
 
 Comcast is bouncing with the message:
 reason: 554 Transaction Failed Spam Message not queued.
 
 Is this Comcast's way of 'hiding' the fact that the E-Mail 
 address is no longer valid? That is, does Comcast consider 
 E-Mail to unknown users spam?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages.

[Mark Sapiro]

On 07/01/2014 03:07 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
 Do you know if any of the reminders to Comcast addresses are getting through?


At 05:00 local time this morning my Mailman installation sent password
reminders to 65 comcast.net addresses. Of these, exactly 1 bounced with

550 5.1.1 u...@comcast.net Account not available (in reply to RCPT TO
command)

and this was for a known bad address that's been bouncing password
reminders for at least two months prior to today.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages.

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Mark Sapiro writes:

  At 05:00 local time this morning my Mailman installation sent password
  reminders to 65 comcast.net addresses. Of these, exactly 1 bounced with
  
  550 5.1.1 u...@comcast.net Account not available (in reply to RCPT TO
  command)

OK, so we know Comcast will admit that a user doesn't exist.  Is this
a personalized list?  Maybe Comcast does something different with a
multiple recipient RCPT TO that contains multiple invalid users?

Also, note that this message, presumably a quote from comcast.net up
to the open paren, includes an extended status code whereas the OP's
error did not.  I wonder if his MTA was actually talking to
comcast.net?  Maybe somebody gave him a comcast.com address by
mistake or something like that?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about rejection messages.

[Mark Sapiro]

On 07/01/2014 07:12 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
 Mark Sapiro writes:
 
   At 05:00 local time this morning my Mailman installation sent password
   reminders to 65 comcast.net addresses. Of these, exactly 1 bounced with
   
   550 5.1.1 u...@comcast.net Account not available (in reply to RCPT TO
   command)
 
 OK, so we know Comcast will admit that a user doesn't exist.  Is this
 a personalized list?  Maybe Comcast does something different with a
 multiple recipient RCPT TO that contains multiple invalid users?


These and the OP's were all password reminders which are all
'personalized' and sent to a single RCPT TO


 Also, note that this message, presumably a quote from comcast.net up
 to the open paren, includes an extended status code whereas the OP's
 error did not.  I wonder if his MTA was actually talking to
 comcast.net?  Maybe somebody gave him a comcast.com address by
 mistake or something like that?


Good observation.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Joe writes:

  Since I am not an IT specialist I have to ask myself, why would he
  feel so strongly about this ?

Just because.  What more reason does anyone need?

I personally strongly disliked cPanel for a long time because they and
their customers (the host services, not the users) dumped some of
their support on us.  Inadvertantly, I'm sure, but I don't cut vendors
who don't publish derivative source much slack.  (Just a disclaimer
of personal bias, you needn't sympathize with me.  Anyway, more
recently they have been trying to work out how to be better citizens
in the Mailman community. :-)

  What problems should I expect to encounter ?

Something that you need to think about, at least long enough to read
the whole point:

1.  Mailman sometimes gets wedged (at least, it has done so in the
past, I'm not promising it will ever happen again, much less
happen to you :-).  When it does, often somebody needs to access
the message queues directly, which you can't do without shell
access (and probably shouldn't be able to do on a shared
installation because you could trash somebody else's mail).  This
could indeed happen to you.  Suppose it does -- I'll bet Brian's
company will get it resolved withing hours in 99% of the rare
cases when it does happen.  (Ask him for actual details, I have no
relation to or even real knowledge of his company -- I just like
him because he's friendly and occasionally answers question here
even if they don't seem like a way to attract a customer. :-)

Would something that happens on the average once in ten years to a
given list, that takes 24 hours or less to resolve, put your
organization out of business?  If yes, cPanel is out, otherwise,
why not?

I suspect your IT specialist buddy is a bit OCD about these things,
and a one-hour delay would be enough to get him spelling in all caps. ;-)

As a non-specialist, the following probably do *not* apply to you, but
for completeness:

2.  In high-volume situations, many admins prefer to use withlist, a
command line script, for mass moderation.  No shell access, no can
do.  This also can happen to you, if your list attracts specific
attention from a bad guy.

3.  If you have many lists, and need to make a configuration change
to each of those lists, again withlist is your friend.

4.  Certain customizations to the website require changing Mailman
code because the page in question is fully-software generated (no
template at all).

5.  Custom Handlers can be added to the post processing pipeline, but
only if you have access to the code.  I have two special-purpose
Handlers that I use for my own lists, and a third, used to
integrate SpamAssassin with Mailman, is quite popular.  (This is
not the preferred way to use SpamAssassin, but it works for a lot
of Mailman site admins.)

There may be others I can't recall offhand, but they're similar.  I
think you can see that these are probably not major concerns for you.
For most non-technical users cPanel is a good way to go.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[Farokh Irani]

 FULL control without the Baby 
Sitting of cPanel ! ! !



Since I am not an IT specialist I have to ask myself, why would he 
feel so strongly about this ? What problems should I expect to encounter ?


Thank you,

Joseph.




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Brian Carpenter mailto:br...@emwd.com
February 18, 2014 13:36

-Original Message-
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
bounces+brian=emwd@python.org] On Behalf Of Joe
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:29 PM
To: mailman-users@python.org Users
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

Hello, everyone.

In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a message
from one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services that utilize

a

cPanel. According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and one

that

doesn't provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT

specialist I

don't know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of you
enlighten me ? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and how would

it

not allow me full control of my lists ?

In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my

lists

with an outside Mailman hosting service ?

Thank you in advance,

Joe.
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Hi Joe:

I think we discussed your mailman needs a couple of times over the phone.

cPanel is a webhosting control panel that is very popular (for good reason)
among web hosting companies and it includes the use of mailman.

cPanel is typically used within a shared hosting environment and I believe
it has done a lot in getting mailman into the hands of many list users.
Because of the nature of a shared hosting environment, typical mailman users
would not have access to the mailman server itself in order to make any
customizations such as searchable archives, etc. However my company hosts
over a 1000 mailman lists on our cPanel servers and our list clients are
very happy with the arrangement. But YMMV.

If you have not required backend access before to your mailman server then I
would think you will not have any problems utilizing a cPanel enabled
mailman service. I would be interested in hearing some details of your IT
specialist's reservations of cPanel and mailman.

Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com

Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years.

T: 336.755.0685
E: br...@emwd.com
www.emwd.com

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Joe mailto:joemailgro...@gmail.com
February 18, 2014 13:28
Hello, everyone.

In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a 
message from one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services 
that utilize a cPanel. According to this specialist this is a bad 
arrangement and one that doesn't provide me full control of my lists. 
Since I am not an IT specialist I don't know what a cPanel is or how 
this can be a problem. Can any of you enlighten me ? What is a cPanel, 
why can this be a problem and how would it not allow me full control 
of my lists ?


In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my 
lists with an outside Mailman hosting service ?


Thank you in advance,

Joe.
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Searchable

Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[Hank van Cleef]

The esteemed Joe has said:
 
 Hello, everyone.
 
 In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a message 
 from one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services that utilize a 
 cPanel. According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and one that 
 doesn't provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT specialist 
 I don't know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of you 
 enlighten me ? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and how would it 
 not allow me full control of my lists ?
 
 In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my lists 
 with an outside Mailman hosting service ?
 
Joe, I'm going to comment on meeting your needs from my own direct
experience.  Just by way of introduction, let me say that I don't
consider myself an IT specialist, though there are times when I've
had to do until a real one comes along.  

Instead, I'm a hardware engineer who first worked with digital systems
in the 1950's, and learned software on the side.  You've heard of the
DEC PDP-1. I worked on that team.  Fast forward 43 years until I
retired at 67 in 2001.  Most of that time, I worked on teams who
didn't go to school to learn that stuff, because we were too busy
inventing it.  (Later some of those schools hired us to teach what
we'd invented).  

A couple of years after I retired (and moved into a small Rocky Mt.
ranch community), the local dialup service developed wireless radio
link services, and when they learned that I was a potential customer
and had Sun servers with Solaris available (and the skills to use
them), I was part of their development.  My setup here is as my own
ISP using them as my upstream feed.  About a year after we got that
up and running, a mail list I was on fell apart because of
sociological conflict.  I agreed to set up Mailman needed resources
to host his domain name, and received the needed data from the last
host site, which was also Mailman.   I downloaded the Mailman and
Python sources, built them, and installed Mailman using the existing
Solaris sendmail and apache builds in the Solaris distribution.  
Some of the Mailman web pages got customized for sociological reasons,
which meant that I had to maintain a non-standard configuration.

Our assumption at the time was that the list would operate for 3-5
years and sail off into the sunset.  That's not what happened.  We
solved the sociological problems, and at eight years, the list was 
more active than ever.  It was time to for me to get out of the hosting
sideline, and find a commercial provider.  Before starting that
search, I did a stock build of Mailman, uncustomized, and moved my
lists to that, to see if there was any more need for the
customization.  There was none, and we found a commercial service that
was running stock Mailman with the HtDig search engine, which we
needed.  Sent them a dump of the subscriber base, the configuration
files we were using, and many gigabytes of mbox files, and they've run
the list for a good three years now.  I'll identify them in private
e-mail if you wish.

What was my actual need for full access to the installation?  So far
as Mailman itself was concerned, virtually none was the answer.  It
was convenient to be able to read the log files, but that generally
was to monitor activity involving Sendmail and its control files.  

I don't know about cPanel itself.  But I think you want to consider
what your objectives are.  I think you are saying you want to set up a
mail list, but don't want to try to turn into a systems administration
wizard in the process.  My experience is this: you don't need to,
if you're hosted on a good system with competent sysadmins.  

Hank
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[Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[Joe]

Hello, everyone.

In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a message from 
one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services that utilize a cPanel. 
According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and one that doesn't 
provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT specialist I don't 
know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of you enlighten me 
? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and how would it not allow me 
full control of my lists ?

In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my lists 
with an outside Mailman hosting service ?

Thank you in advance,

Joe.
--
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https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[Joe]

Hi, Brian.

Thanks for your reply. I will be calling you soon.

I will not disclose the name or e-mail of the IT specialist but his private 
message to me expressed his concern over the use of cPanel as a tool for the 
management of Mailman.

Here is an excerpt from the e-mail I received:


Joe, unless you have COMPLETE List Control, DON'T do it ! ! !

If you think you HATE the baby sitting of current set-up, you don't 
know/fully understand 
the full meaning of HATE ! ! ! 

For over a decade I have prayed to Hit the Lottery as very FIRST thing I 
would do is pay
for Dedicated Server so I could have FULL control without the Baby Sitting of 
cPanel ! ! !


Since I am not an IT specialist I have to ask myself, why would he feel so 
strongly about this ? What problems should I expect to encounter ?

Thank you,

Joseph.



On February 18, 2014, at 10:36 AM, Brian Carpenter br...@emwd.com wrote:

 -Original Message-
 From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
 bounces+brian=emwd@python.org] On Behalf Of Joe
 Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:29 PM
 To: mailman-users@python.org Users
 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.
 
 Hello, everyone.
 
 In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a message
 from one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services that utilize
 a
 cPanel. According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and one
 that
 doesn't provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT
 specialist I
 don't know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of you
 enlighten me ? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and how would
 it
 not allow me full control of my lists ?
 
 In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my
 lists
 with an outside Mailman hosting service ?
 
 Thank you in advance,
 
 Joe.
 --
 Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
 https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
 Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
 users%40python.org/
 Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
 users/brian%40emwd.com
 
 Hi Joe:
 
 I think we discussed your mailman needs a couple of times over the phone.
 
 cPanel is a webhosting control panel that is very popular (for good reason)
 among web hosting companies and it includes the use of mailman.
 
 cPanel is typically used within a shared hosting environment and I believe
 it has done a lot in getting mailman into the hands of many list users.
 Because of the nature of a shared hosting environment, typical mailman users
 would not have access to the mailman server itself in order to make any
 customizations such as searchable archives, etc. However my company hosts
 over a 1000 mailman lists on our cPanel servers and our list clients are
 very happy with the arrangement. But YMMV.
 
 If you have not required backend access before to your mailman server then I
 would think you will not have any problems utilizing a cPanel enabled
 mailman service. I would be interested in hearing some details of your IT
 specialist's reservations of cPanel and mailman.
 
 Brian Carpenter
 EMWD.com
 
 Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years.
 
 T: 336.755.0685
 E: br...@emwd.com
 www.emwd.com
 

--
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https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[Brian Carpenter]

 -Original Message-
 From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
 bounces+brian=emwd@python.org] On Behalf Of Joe
 Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:29 PM
 To: mailman-users@python.org Users
 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.
 
 Hello, everyone.
 
 In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a message
 from one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services that utilize
a
 cPanel. According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and one
that
 doesn't provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT
specialist I
 don't know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of you
 enlighten me ? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and how would
it
 not allow me full control of my lists ?
 
 In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my
lists
 with an outside Mailman hosting service ?
 
 Thank you in advance,
 
 Joe.
 --
 Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
 https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
 Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
 users%40python.org/
 Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
 users/brian%40emwd.com

Hi Joe:

I think we discussed your mailman needs a couple of times over the phone.

cPanel is a webhosting control panel that is very popular (for good reason)
among web hosting companies and it includes the use of mailman.

cPanel is typically used within a shared hosting environment and I believe
it has done a lot in getting mailman into the hands of many list users.
Because of the nature of a shared hosting environment, typical mailman users
would not have access to the mailman server itself in order to make any
customizations such as searchable archives, etc. However my company hosts
over a 1000 mailman lists on our cPanel servers and our list clients are
very happy with the arrangement. But YMMV.

If you have not required backend access before to your mailman server then I
would think you will not have any problems utilizing a cPanel enabled
mailman service. I would be interested in hearing some details of your IT
specialist's reservations of cPanel and mailman.

Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com

Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years.

T: 336.755.0685
E: br...@emwd.com
www.emwd.com

--
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https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[Andrew Hodgson]

Joe wrote:

In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a message from 
one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services that utilize a cPanel. 
According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and one that doesn't 
provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT specialist I don't 
know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of you enlighten 
me ? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and how would it not allow 
me full control of my lists ?

I run Mailman lists for several charities running my own Mailman compiled from 
source with some modifications.  I do the work on the backend and if there are 
problems, I get support from myself or the list if I am stuck.  I manage other 
Linux systems and so it isn't a problem for me.  I don't want to pay the 
license to run CPanel on the servers, and that is the choice I made.

The CPanel system is a web based control panel which allows you to host amongst 
other things, a fully working Mailman setup.  Whilst the CPanel implementation 
is not standard as per the stock Mailman setup, it is arguably one of the most 
widely used versions of Mailman, and without it, I think Mailman would be far 
less used today.

I feel there is nothing wrong with the CPanel installation for most users, who 
want to create, manage and remove lists from their hosting domains.  Where the 
issue comes is with support, as only a CPanel specialist or CPanel themselves 
can really support the installation, as the Mailman community don't know fully 
what has been done to the installation to make it work with the CPanel 
environment.  It could also be possible for someone who is used to a stock 
Mailman installation to break the integration if they just go ahead and change 
stuff without forethought to the CPanel integration.  I myself am subscribed to 
several very high traffic lists who run Mailman under CPanel, and they have no 
issues at all that I know of.

My advice would be to look at the providers you have available, if some are 
using CPanel and you feel comfortable with the support they are offering, and 
the service fits your requirements, then don't let the fact they are using 
CPanel put you off.  It sounds like you would probably call out to someone else 
to support the system if it goes wrong anyhow.  If you have more bespoke 
requirements, and the CPanel integration wouldn't meet these (after talking to 
people on this list or companies who use CPanel), then go with a more tailored 
solution.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[George Kasica]

Joe:

I am an IT Specialist (29 years) and new to Mailman as you can see by my
posts here lately,

I run many things under cPanel via a large hosting provider but chose to run
Mailman here on my 2 local Linux Servers (Ubuntu) - I'm not sure why he
feels so strongly, if the provider had a good support structure and prices
(I'm paying $15/month for unlimited space/bandwidth - email me privately for
the provider) plus I run my own 2 local servers here with mailman on them
for several charitable/non-profit groups.

As to an IT Specialist needing to hit the lottery for his own dedicated
server - um...they don't cost that much to build both of these here are
probably about $1K each or less with RAID Disks, redundant power supplies
etc.

Heck, if you just need to host a few lists give me a yell and we can talk.

George

-Original Message-
From: Mailman-Users
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+gkasica=netwrx1@python.org] On Behalf Of
Joe
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 12:51 PM
To: Brian Carpenter
Cc: 'mailman-users@python.org Users'
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

Hi, Brian.

Thanks for your reply. I will be calling you soon.

I will not disclose the name or e-mail of the IT specialist but his private
message to me expressed his concern over the use of cPanel as a tool for the
management of Mailman.

Here is an excerpt from the e-mail I received:


Joe, unless you have COMPLETE List Control, DON'T do it ! ! !

If you think you HATE the baby sitting of current set-up, you don't
know/fully understand the full meaning of HATE ! ! ! 

For over a decade I have prayed to Hit the Lottery as very FIRST thing I
would do is pay for Dedicated Server so I could have FULL control without
the Baby Sitting of cPanel ! ! !


Since I am not an IT specialist I have to ask myself, why would he feel so
strongly about this ? What problems should I expect to encounter ?

Thank you,

Joseph.



On February 18, 2014, at 10:36 AM, Brian Carpenter br...@emwd.com wrote:

 -Original Message-
 From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
 bounces+brian=emwd@python.org] On Behalf Of Joe
 Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:29 PM
 To: mailman-users@python.org Users
 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.
 
 Hello, everyone.
 
 In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a 
 message from one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services 
 that utilize
 a
 cPanel. According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and 
 one
 that
 doesn't provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT
 specialist I
 don't know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of 
 you enlighten me ? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and 
 how would
 it
 not allow me full control of my lists ?
 
 In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my
 lists
 with an outside Mailman hosting service ?
 
 Thank you in advance,
 
 Joe.
 --
 Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org 
 https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
 Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: 
 http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
 users%40python.org/
 Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
 users/brian%40emwd.com
 
 Hi Joe:
 
 I think we discussed your mailman needs a couple of times over the phone.
 
 cPanel is a webhosting control panel that is very popular (for good 
 reason) among web hosting companies and it includes the use of mailman.
 
 cPanel is typically used within a shared hosting environment and I 
 believe it has done a lot in getting mailman into the hands of many list
users.
 Because of the nature of a shared hosting environment, typical mailman 
 users would not have access to the mailman server itself in order to 
 make any customizations such as searchable archives, etc. However my 
 company hosts over a 1000 mailman lists on our cPanel servers and our 
 list clients are very happy with the arrangement. But YMMV.
 
 If you have not required backend access before to your mailman server 
 then I would think you will not have any problems utilizing a cPanel 
 enabled mailman service. I would be interested in hearing some details 
 of your IT specialist's reservations of cPanel and mailman.
 
 Brian Carpenter
 EMWD.com
 
 Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years.
 
 T: 336.755.0685
 E: br...@emwd.com
 www.emwd.com
 

--
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https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy:
http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about moderation notices.

[Mark Sapiro]

On 02/12/2014 12:55 PM, Joe wrote:


There are a few members in my lists I wish to moderate at least for a while. I 
understand that by moderating their posts I will be given the opportunity to 
review each message they attempt to post and either approve it or reject it if 
the content is questionable. Is this true ?



Yes.



In regards to this moderation, I have read somewhere that subscribers may or 
may not receive a notification every time their messages are held for 
moderation. I can't seem to find this setting now.

Is there a way to turn off this setting so that subscribers don't receive 
notifications every time their messages are held for moderation ? Is this 
setting individual (can be set individually and independently for every 
subscribers) or is it a global setting for the entire list ?



See Privacy options... -Sender filters - member_moderation_action. The 
action you want is Hold. When the post is held, the member will or will 
not be notified per the setting General Options - 
respond_to_post_requests. This setting applies to all posts to the list 
which are held for any reason, not just moderation.


--
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about administrative panel.

[Mark Sapiro]

On 02/08/2014 06:18 PM, Joe wrote:
 
 I currently host 8 lists but this is only happening to one of them. As I try 
 to access the Mass Subscription window or panel at 
 www.domain.com/mailman/admin/list1/members/add my browser states it can't 
 find the server. It does work for all other 7 lists I host.


Reading between the lines and guessing at the problem, I think the
web_page_url setting for the problem list has the wrong host name. See
the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/mIA9.

-- 
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] Question about web and mail hosting in Mailman.

[Joe]

Hello, everyone.

I am transferred the website of my Mailman related domain to a third party 
hosting service but plant to host the Mailman list itself with a different 
service. I have been told that Mailman can not reside in one server while the 
website associated with the domain it uses resides in another. In my case the 
domain.com website is hosted by one service while the Mailman list and a few 
e-mail associated with the domain (i...@domain.com and ad...@domain.com) are 
hosted by another service (by service I mean different servers in different 
geographical locations).

I have been told that this solution is not possible as I will not be able to 
access Mailman administrative interface through my browser (as in 
www.domain.com/mailman/admin) since the website will be in a different server 
and not the one where Mailman is located.

Is this true or is possible to have this type of configuration with mailman 
lists and website hosted by different servers ?

Thank you in advance,

Joe.
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about web and mail hosting in Mailman.

[Mark Sapiro]

On 02/08/2014 07:42 AM, Joe wrote:
 
 I have been told that this solution is not possible as I will not be able to 
 access Mailman administrative interface through my browser (as in 
 www.domain.com/mailman/admin) since the website will be in a different server 
 and not the one where Mailman is located.


That is correct.


 Is this true or is possible to have this type of configuration with mailman 
 lists and website hosted by different servers ?


What you need is to have the MX for the email domain of the lists and
the web domain of the lists be the same server or at least servers that
can share the Mailman file system via NFS or some other file sharing
manager.

In your case, if the lists are addressed as listn...@example.com with
the MX for example.com being the Mailman host, you will need to have a
domain for the web interface, e.g. http://lists.example.com/mailman/...,
which also resolves to the Mailman host.

-- 
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about web and mail hosting in Mailman.

[Richard Damon]

On 2/8/14, 10:42 AM, Joe wrote:
 Hello, everyone.

 I am transferred the website of my Mailman related domain to a third party 
 hosting service but plant to host the Mailman list itself with a different 
 service. I have been told that Mailman can not reside in one server while the 
 website associated with the domain it uses resides in another. In my case the 
 domain.com website is hosted by one service while the Mailman list and a few 
 e-mail associated with the domain (i...@domain.com and ad...@domain.com) are 
 hosted by another service (by service I mean different servers in different 
 geographical locations).

 I have been told that this solution is not possible as I will not be able to 
 access Mailman administrative interface through my browser (as in 
 www.domain.com/mailman/admin) since the website will be in a different server 
 and not the one where Mailman is located.

 Is this true or is possible to have this type of configuration with mailman 
 lists and website hosted by different servers ?

 Thank you in advance,

 Joe.
You should be able to place the interface at something list

http://lists.example.com/mailman/admin

Because the mailman interface code resides with the mail processing
code, and they need to share data, they really need to be on the same
machine. They do NOT need to be on the same domain. I have a mailman
list running on a shared mailing-list host, but the lists email address
reference a domain that is hosted on a different machine, the domains
are different.

-- 
Richard Damon

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[Mailman-Users] Question about administrative panel.

[Joe]

Hello, everyone.

I am having problems accessing the the Mass Subscription panel in Mailman's 
administrative interface.

I currently host 8 lists but this is only happening to one of them. As I try to 
access the Mass Subscription window or panel at 
www.domain.com/mailman/admin/list1/members/add my browser states it can't find 
the server. It does work for all other 7 lists I host.

Any idea why this is happening and how I can fix it ?

Thank you in advance.

Joe.
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[Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting.

[Joe]

Hello, everyone.

A while ago I posted a question to this group about some problems I had been 
experiencing with my server and was recommended several Mailman hosting 
services by some of the members who replied to my original post either here or 
privately.

I have decided to follow this advice in order to save the time and effort it 
has become for me to maintain my server and the Mailman software up-to-date.

What has been your experience with hosting services ? Have you had any problems 
and what should I watch out for ? Are there any hosting services you would 
recommend ?

Thank you in advance for your responses.

Joe.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] [Question] Where are the Moderated Messages?

[Oliver Niebuhr]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello Again and Sorry for the late Reply :)

Am 15.01.2014 05:05, schrieb Mark Sapiro: On 01/14/2014 02:28 PM,
Oliver Niebuhr wrote:

 I have moderated a Mail and used the Option Keep Message for Moderator
 (or whatever the correct english Translation is).

 Now i want to look into that Message as we want to Ban this person. But
 i can not find it anywhere. Is there a hidden option to Access it??


 They are saved in files with names like spam-LISTNAME-NNN.msg in
 Mailman's 'spam' directory which is located in Mailman's VAR_PREFIX
 directory, i.e., at /usr/local/mailman/spam/ in a default install, but
 may differ in your installation.

 There is no Mailman web UI for accessing these messages.


Well thats bad as we Mailman Admins dont have Deep Access to that Part
of the Server. I dont understand why there is no UI for Accessing this
Messages directly - in one way or another.

Anyway: Thanks for clearing things up :)

Oliver
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Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

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Re: [Mailman-Users] [Question] Where are the Moderated Messages?

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Oliver Niebuhr writes:

  I dont understand why there is no UI for Accessing this Messages
  directly - in one way or another.

That's easy enough to explain: Mailman was written in a age when
sysadmin == Mailman admin (and often, == list owner/admin/moderator)
was the primary use case.  So, the shell is the UI.  Virtual hosting
services and large organizations adopted Mailman without contributing
patches to enable such features as needed in their environment.

These issues should generally be alleviated in Mailman 3, but that's a
project that has been ongoing for several years.

.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] [Question] Where are the Moderated Messages?

[Frank Murphy]

On Thu, 16 Jan 2014 10:58:26 +0100
Oliver Niebuhr googleers...@oliverniebuhr.de wrote:


 
 Well thats bad as we Mailman Admins dont have Deep Access to that
 Part of the Server. I dont understand why there is no UI for
 Accessing this Messages directly - in one way or another.
 

Can your ask your infra\sysadmin to forward to you?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] [Question] Where are the Moderated Messages?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 01/16/2014 01:58 AM, Oliver Niebuhr wrote:
 
 Well thats bad as we Mailman Admins dont have Deep Access to that Part
 of the Server. I dont understand why there is no UI for Accessing this
 Messages directly - in one way or another.


If you don't have access, then don't Preserve messages for the site
administrator, but rather Forward messages (individually) to: (yourself).

The 'Preserve' action, at least in the English message, is clear that it
is the site administrator, not the list owner, who will have access to
the preserved message.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] [Question] Where are the Moderated Messages?

[GoogleErsatz]

‎Well that explains a lot. Thanks

I am not a Pro (yet) with Mailman‎. If I could code Python I would contribute 
something myself. But learning C++ takes the rest of my spare time .

I hope to see a $uitool‎ of some sort in a new Version - somehow, somewhere, 
someday :)

Oliver

Send from a Mobile Device. Encoding Problems can happen.
  Originalnachricht  
Von: Stephen J. Turnbull
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Januar 2014 15:12
An: Oliver Niebuhr
Cc: mailman-users@python.org
Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] [Question] Where are the Moderated Messages?

Oliver Niebuhr writes:

 I dont understand why there is no UI for Accessing this Messages
 directly - in one way or another.

That's easy enough to explain: Mailman was written in a age when
sysadmin == Mailman admin (and often, == list owner/admin/moderator)
was the primary use case. So, the shell is the UI. Virtual hosting
services and large organizations adopted Mailman without contributing
patches to enable such features as needed in their environment.

These issues should generally be alleviated in Mailman 3, but that's a
project that has been ongoing for several years.

.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] [Question] Where are the Moderated Messages?

[GoogleErsatz]

‎I am already doing this. Problem is: We are not sure if forwarding moderated 
Messages to the private Mail Account of the List Admin is in comply with our 
local and European Privacy Laws.

I am in Contact with our Data Protection Officer. Hope to get a clear answer 
ASAP.

Oliver

Send from a Mobile Device. Encoding Problems can happen.
  Originalnachricht  
Von: Mark Sapiro
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Januar 2014 16:10
An: mailman-users@python.org
Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] [Question] Where are the Moderated Messages?

On 01/16/2014 01:58 AM, Oliver Niebuhr wrote:
 
 Well thats bad as we Mailman Admins dont have Deep Access to that Part
 of the Server. I dont understand why there is no UI for Accessing this
 Messages directly - in one way or another.


If you don't have access, then don't Preserve messages for the site
administrator, but rather Forward messages (individually) to: (yourself).

The 'Preserve' action, at least in the English message, is clear that it
is the site administrator, not the list owner, who will have access to
the preserved message.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] [Question] Where are the Moderated Messages?

[GoogleErsatz]

‎That's what I already plan to ask them the next time I see them. We are good 
in creating workarounds - even as unpaid volunteers :)



Send from a Mobile Device. Encoding Problems can happen.
  Originalnachricht  
Von: Frank Murphy
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Januar 2014 15:15
An: mailman-users@python.org
Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] [Question] Where are the Moderated Messages?

On Thu, 16 Jan 2014 10:58:26 +0100
Oliver Niebuhr googleers...@oliverniebuhr.de wrote:


 
 Well thats bad as we Mailman Admins dont have Deep Access to that
 Part of the Server. I dont understand why there is no UI for
 Accessing this Messages directly - in one way or another.
 

Can your ask your infra\sysadmin to forward to you?
___
Regards,
Frank 
www.frankly3d.com

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Re: [Mailman-Users] [Question] Where are the Moderated Messages?

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

GoogleErsatz writes:

  ‎I am already doing this. Problem is: We are not sure if forwarding
  moderated Messages to the private Mail Account of the List Admin is
  in comply with our local and European Privacy Laws.

If it's not, give the list admin a dedicated mail account for such
mail.  If that's not sufficient, the law is incoherent and you're in
for a lot of pain trying to comply in general -- my condolences.

  I am in Contact with our Data Protection Officer. Hope to get a
  clear answer ASAP.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] [Question] Where are the Moderated Messages?

[GoogleErsatz]

‎Yep I already thought about  creating a reserved Account on my private Domain. 
Creating a Account on the Server is not possible as we self gave us some 
specific Rules to make sure, that not more People as really needed have Access 
to $Part of the Infrastructure.

But from time to time we look at those Rules. Seems it's time to check them 
gain.
That's all that seems possible - for now.

We are not a Big Company. We are just a political movement with very limited 
Resources and Volunteers. We must work with what we have.

Thanks to all of You for your help and Ideas :)
Oliver

Send from a Mobile Device. Encoding Problems can happen.
  Originalnachricht  
Von: Stephen J. Turnbull
Gesendet: Freitag, 17. Januar 2014 03:37
An: GoogleErsatz
Cc: mailman-users
Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] [Question] Where are the Moderated Messages?

GoogleErsatz writes:

 ‎I am already doing this. Problem is: We are not sure if forwarding
 moderated Messages to the private Mail Account of the List Admin is
 in comply with our local and European Privacy Laws.

If it's not, give the list admin a dedicated mail account for such
mail. If that's not sufficient, the law is incoherent and you're in
for a lot of pain trying to comply in general -- my condolences.

 I am in Contact with our Data Protection Officer. Hope to get a
 clear answer ASAP.

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[Mailman-Users] [Question] Where are the Moderated Messages?

[Oliver Niebuhr]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Good evening.

I have a Question:

I have moderated a Mail and used the Option Keep Message for Moderator
(or whatever the correct english Translation is).

Now i want to look into that Message as we want to Ban this person. But
i can not find it anywhere. Is there a hidden option to Access it??

I am only the Administrator of the List not the Server Admin. This is
handled by another Department.

Have i overseen something? Or is the Message gone forever as i dont have
it additionally forwarded to a specific address?

Thank You and Sorry for the bad english :)

Oliver
Germany
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iQGcBAEBAgAGBQJS1bn/AAoJEBe8q9IvkbNbjJEMAJa9vBbmqp3Wvc9FlQuG5kCA
AdxaqTDtOE0oHmr/dpBn4cA1LzkW8Ok5zEkoS/wUF0SvV6ZFs7VJf7WVmO0CwdZb
cOYECqZa4/uinWG4VI60v6DzEd1WjlFqUGFVHjevvSTfR3xDWXGZMQuhg3MFg6eW
kSNXtF8IH9od6lFI0MY/+CbrMLAckxQSNLb/olI1mqdHEIJrWuPr/tPXwItYEwmS
Jsix1GkqdutZPoh60dBBSgrNfjzNQ6H7T4rHgs02UwZx4c50a+3YnbiYbu93QHDO
sfif+DUMJ9QrMHy+0HULkdbi7OdcVSqm4f+byy1olV12rvxrYBlAMb7xaOgn1RjW
cJw52+HY/+FQ/GjAVpRGzDGq+Akhal4lgvRPux8QtGOzAVu2dOVeMgp/gZEonM0L
5mEMDm/qXhEV6C+jKUHbiCHyA5ibosnArJ4CcsLaX8TUFl2qQRIfIzGi273/10he
HXoo+Mpyqp73q/i0Pupi0pFlTFUP3e9TQfveYK4d+w==
=juvX
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [Mailman-Users] [Question] Where are the Moderated Messages?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 01/14/2014 02:28 PM, Oliver Niebuhr wrote:
 
 I have moderated a Mail and used the Option Keep Message for Moderator
 (or whatever the correct english Translation is).
 
 Now i want to look into that Message as we want to Ban this person. But
 i can not find it anywhere. Is there a hidden option to Access it??


They are saved in files with names like spam-LISTNAME-NNN.msg in
Mailman's 'spam' directory which is located in Mailman's VAR_PREFIX
directory, i.e., at /usr/local/mailman/spam/ in a default install, but
may differ in your installation.

There is no Mailman web UI for accessing these messages.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] Question on Upgrading

[Sascha Rissel]

Hello there,

recently I rented my first own vServer to have my own Mailman running.
The server runs Debian and Plesk panel.
Plesk offered an easy installation of mailman 2.1.13. After some further
manual configuration, the system is running fine. :-)

Now I'd like to upgrade to latest Mailman 2.1.16.

Is there any help reliable help on how to build and install the upgrade?
I found: http://www.linux-sxs.org/internet_serving/mailman.html, but I am
not sure, where this suits my needs...

Do you have any hints for me?

Thanks in advance,
Sascha.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question on Upgrading

[Mark Sapiro]

On 11/01/2013 07:45 AM, Sascha Rissel wrote:

 The server runs Debian and Plesk panel.
 Plesk offered an easy installation of mailman 2.1.13. After some further
 manual configuration, the system is running fine. :-)
 
 Now I'd like to upgrade to latest Mailman 2.1.16.
 
 Is there any help reliable help on how to build and install the upgrade?


See the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/tIA9, in particular It is
possible to trick Plesk into recognizing newer versions installed
manually but it's not for the faint of heart.

Installing Mailman from source is fairly straightforward and well
documented at http://www.list.org/mailman-install/index.html, but
making it work with Plesk may be tricky.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] Question About Deleting Messages from Archives

[gorgo...@yahoo.com]

Hi there,

I was wondering if it was possible for a list administrator to delete a message 
from the archives of a 
list (as it's showing up in Google's search results, which I don't want) and, 
if so, how that could be done.  

Best regards,

Gorgos
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question About Deleting Messages from Archives

[Mark Sapiro]

On 10/21/2013 06:28 AM, gorgo...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 I was wondering if it was possible for a list administrator to delete a 
 message from the archives of a 
 list (as it's showing up in Google's search results, which I don't want) and, 
 if so, how that could be done.  


See the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/2YA9.

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[Mailman-Users] Question about mailman 3

[Javad Hoseini-Nopendar]

Hello
I have a question about later versions of mailman. Do they have the feature 
to export list of members to Excel or TXT file?



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about mailman 3

[Lindsay Haisley]

On Thu, 2013-07-11 at 20:16 +0430, Javad Hoseini-Nopendar wrote:
 I have a question about later versions of mailman. Do they have the feature 
 to export list of members to Excel or TXT file?

If you have console access to the account, you can use the list_members
command:

list_members listname   [lists member emails]
list_members -f listname[lists emails w. names as RFC-compliant address]
 
You can also send a who command in the subject line to
listname-requ...@example.com with a password.  This isn't well
documented, but you'll find what documentation there is at
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/node10.html and
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/node41.html#a:commands

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about mailman 3

[Mark Sapiro]

On 07/11/2013 09:48 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
 On Thu, 2013-07-11 at 20:16 +0430, Javad Hoseini-Nopendar wrote:
 I have a question about later versions of mailman. Do they have the feature 
 to export list of members to Excel or TXT file?
 
 If you have console access to the account, you can use the list_members
 command:
 
 list_members listname [lists member emails]
 list_members -f listname  [lists emails w. names as RFC-compliant address]

 You can also send a who command in the subject line to
 listname-requ...@example.com with a password.  This isn't well
 documented, but you'll find what documentation there is at
 http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/node10.html and
 http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/node41.html#a:commands


Or in the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/aYA9, but the OP's question
appears to be about MM 3. In MM 3, Postorius may or may not have the
ability to export a membership list directly from the web UI. My guess
is that it does, but I don't actually know for sure.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding SPAM

[Futchko, Rose]

Sapiro, Mark wrote:

Marked by what?

In the message sent by Mailman, the Subject line contained [SPAM] from our spam 
manager, i.e. = Subject: [SPAM] United Postal Service Tracking Number 
H8260315491

You could use the list's Privacy options... - Spam filters -
header_filter_rules to hold or discard such messages. It is not a good
idea to reject them as the sender is likely spoofed so the rejection
is just backscatter.

I will configure this as mentioned.

Then how did the post reach the list? What is the list's Privacy
options... - Sender filters - generic_nonmember_action setting?

Discard
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[Mailman-Users] Question regarding SPAM

[Futchko, Rose]

Hi, I have a question about SPAM being sent via Mailman. 

1. Even though the message is marked as SPAM it is still sent to the
list
2. The sender is not a member of the moderated list
3. Spam filters at the other members site are catching the Spam and
returning the not delivered message (example below)
4. Have I mis-configured something in the Mailman to allow this to
happen (It happens often)

Thank you,
Rose

Example Message:


This is the mail delivery agent at messagelabs.com.
I was not able to deliver your message to the following addresses.

Remote host said: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons.  

--- Below this line is a copy of the message.

Return-Path: mailman-boun...@list.informs.org
X-Env-Sender: mailman-boun...@list.informs.org
X-Msg-Ref: server-8.tower-85.messagelabs.com!1348767090!55220986!1
X-Originating-IP: [216.230.111.83]
X-StarScan-Received:
X-StarScan-Version: 6.6.1.3; banners=-,-,-
X-VirusChecked: Checked
Received: (qmail 16887 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2012 17:31:30 -
Received: from mail.informs.com (HELO mail.informs.org) (216.230.111.83)
  by server-8.tower-85.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2012 17:31:30
-
Received: by mail.informs.org (Postfix, from userid 506)
id 7354A20798; Thu, 27 Sep 2012 13:31:30 -0400 (EDT)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
informs-app02-listserv.custcbb.local
X-Spam-Flag: YES
X-Spam-Level: ***
X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=19.2 required=5.0
tests=BAYES_99,DATE_IN_PAST_03_06,

Received: from informs-app02-listserv.custcbb.local (localhost
[127.0.0.1])
by mail.informs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE0E42086E;
Thu, 27 Sep 2012 13:31:29 -0400 (EDT)

Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 06:31:17 -0600
From: Cierra Orozco via LinkedIn mem...@linkedin.com
Reply-To: Cierra Orozco jacksony...@mnp.ca
To: southeastern-michigan-chapter-owner
southeastern-michigan-chapter-ow...@list.informs.org
Message-ID:
126881171.1872436.8821718263356.javamail@ela0-app0430.prod
Subject: [SPAM] United Postal Service Tracking Number H8260315491
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding SPAM

[Mark Sapiro]

Futchko, Rose wrote:

Hi, I have a question about SPAM being sent via Mailman. 

1. Even though the message is marked as SPAM it is still sent to the
list


Marked by what?

You could use the list's Privacy options... - Spam filters -
header_filter_rules to hold or discard such messages. It is not a good
idea to reject them as the sender is likely spoofed so the rejection
is just backscatter.


2. The sender is not a member of the moderated list


Then how did the post reach the list? What is the list's Privacy
options... - Sender filters - generic_nonmember_action setting?


[...]
4. Have I mis-configured something in the Mailman to allow this to
happen (It happens often)


See 2. above?

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[Mailman-Users] question about harvesting of non-archived lists by archiveorange.com

[Christopher Adams]

Hello all,

A list owner of one of our 500+ mailing lists notified me that
postings from their non-archived list was being harvested by
archiveorange.com and could be found via Google. I found that many of
our lists are archived on this site, and this is not something that we
really want.  I am just querying the list to see if this has happened
with others using Mailman. The website explains that archiveorange
subscribes to lists and then harvests messages. It seems that the
only way this could happen to a non-archived list is for the mailbox
directories to readable to the outside. Is there something else that
is going on here?

Thanks for any information that anyone has to offer.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] question about harvesting of non-archived lists byarchiveorange.com

[Mark Sapiro]

Christopher Adams wrote:

A list owner of one of our 500+ mailing lists notified me that
postings from their non-archived list was being harvested by
archiveorange.com and could be found via Google. I found that many of
our lists are archived on this site, and this is not something that we
really want.  I am just querying the list to see if this has happened
with others using Mailman. The website explains that archiveorange
subscribes to lists and then harvests messages. It seems that the
only way this could happen to a non-archived list is for the mailbox
directories to readable to the outside. Is there something else that
is going on here?


Yes. One of the members of the archived list is the archiveorange.com
archiver, so that they receive list posts as they are sent. From their
web site, the address may be new...@archiveorange.com.

If in fact archiveorange.com does this without fully informed
affirmative consent of the list owner, that is highly unethical and
deplorable, but they wouldn't be the only ones. answerpot.com is
another.

For answerpot, I have

^.*[@.]apot(mail)?\.com$

in the ban_list of all my lists.


The archiveorange.com web site implies that the list owner must add
new...@archiveorange.com to the list to enable archiving, and that
they don't do it. If the list doesn't require approval for
subscription, it may be possible for anyone to request subscription of
the new...@archiveorange.com address. I don't know if this address
will respond to a confirmation email, but if it does, I would add it
to the ban_list of all lists (see
http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/add_banned.py).

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[Mailman-Users] question about list locking

[Richard Haas]

Greetings.

Is there a relatively standard way to place a lock on a Mailman list with
bourne/bash/etc. scripts?

I see the interactive method using Mailman's *withlist* script (as described
here http://www.gnu.org/s/mailman/site.html), but I need to place a lock so
that an unattended perl script can prune older messages from the list's
.mbox archive, nightly or weekly via cron.

Yes, one might code the call to the perl mbox pruning script in python with
os.system() or commands.getoutput(), and then call withlist via cron to get
the perl to run while the list is locked -- but that seems like rolling a
lot together just to get a lock placed on a list. :-)

Is there a more straightforward way to lock/unlock a mailing list?

Thanks for any insight.

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[Mailman-Users] question about list locking

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Richard Haas writes:

  Is there a more straightforward way to lock/unlock a mailing list?

Sure -- write your pruning code in Python.wink/

What's the big deal about a three-line withlist script?  That's really
the only way to guarantee that you'll get correct locking in the
future with upgrades to Mailman.  Locking is an internal detail to
Mailman, and although AFAIK there's no particular reason to expect it
to change, it *could*.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question on how to create new administrator ids for our mailman site

[Roberto Luco]

Initially posted to incorrect address. Mark was gracious enough to respond to 
the initial post, which I include here.

Question:

Mailman seems to have only one administrator user, and anybody the needs to do 
administrative work on the site (member admin, configuration, approval and 
forwarding of member email, etc) needs to sign in as admin. We would like to 
create different admin users, so that you could sign in as somebody other 
admin, but be able to perform admin functions. The admin login page only 
allows to enter a password, so no matter who logs in, to mailman you are just 
admin, even though there might be several people who are allowed to perform 
admin operations. Having different admin ids would hopefully make it easier to 
track the activities of the admins.

I have been looking for a way to create admin ids in the documentation, and 
have not been able to find it. Does this mean that it is not possible to have 
an admin id that is not in mailman? Is mailman designed to have a single entry 
point for an admin? Any help would be appreciated on this.

Mark Sapiro responded:


This capability will exist in Mailman 3 but not before.


Thanks,

Roberto Luco



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[Mailman-Users] Question about Reply to All

[T6 Webmaster]

Group,

 

Is there a way to prevent the list email address appearing when a user
chooses Reply to All?

 

It is not a problem with Reply - that goes to the poster - but Reply to
All still sends to the entire list - not desirable in our situation.

 

John Zaleski

BSA Troop 6

Orlando, Florida

 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Reply to All

[Mark Sapiro]

T6 Webmaster wrote:

Is there a way to prevent the list email address appearing when a user
chooses Reply to All?

 

It is not a problem with Reply - that goes to the poster - but Reply to
All still sends to the entire list - not desirable in our situation.


There is no combination of list settings that will prevent reply all
from including the list posting address.

If your list is a one-way or announcement type list, see the FAQ at
http://wiki.list.org/x/3YA9 for advice on configuring it.

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[Mailman-Users] Question about Reply to All

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

T6 Webmaster writes:

  Is there a way to prevent the list email address appearing when a user
  chooses Reply to All?

Not in the way you state it.  That's under control of the user's mail
program, and inclusion of the list's address is the logical outcome of
a command called Reply to All.

There is an option in Mailman for full personalization of list
traffic.  In that case, the list's address is removed from the visible
headers entirely, and the user's name and address are substituted.

  It is not a problem with Reply - that goes to the poster - but
  Reply to All still sends to the entire list - not desirable in our
  situation.

It would help if you explain in more detail what is and is not
desirable.  It is probably possible to achieve a pretty good
approximation to what you want.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Reply to All

[Mark Sapiro]

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

There is an option in Mailman for full personalization of list
traffic.  In that case, the list's address is removed from the visible
headers entirely, and the user's name and address are substituted.


Full Personalization will not help in this case. When the list is fully
personalized, the list posting address is put in or added to the Cc:
header precisely to facilitate replying to the list with reply all.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Reply to All

[Carl Zwanzig]

You could filter messages discarding anything with the X-BeenThere header, 
this would prevent any message that came out of mailman from being processed 
again. OTOH I suspect that an announce-only list would be preferable.


z!

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Reply to All

[Mark Sapiro]

Carl Zwanzig wrote:

You could filter messages discarding anything with the X-BeenThere header, 
this would prevent any message that came out of mailman from being processed 
again. OTOH I suspect that an announce-only list would be preferable.


MUAs generally do not copy X-BeenThere: headers into replies. If they
did, it would be impossible to reply to a list post as Mailman ignores
any post to a list with an X-BeenThere: header from that list in order
to prevent mail loops resulting from 'circular' list memberships.

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[Mailman-Users] Question about moderation

[Eduardo Costa]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi everyone,

It is possible and how, in a list with multiple moderators to check
which of the moderators moderated message?

Best Regards

- -- 
..
 Eduardo Costa
..
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Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about moderation

[Mark Sapiro]

Eduardo Costa wrote:

It is possible and how, in a list with multiple moderators to check
which of the moderators moderated message?


Not within Mailman, but Mailman's vette log will have a time stamp, and
using that you can check your MTA's logs for who sent the
approve/discard message if it was sent by email or the web server's
logs for the IP address of the POST transaction if the moderation was
via the web.

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[Mailman-Users] Question concerning list of members as relay_recipients in postfix

[Peter Sørensen]

Hi,

I have recently migrated my old mailman installation to a new based on 2.1.14 
with postfix
as MTA. The prior one used EXIM.

The mailman server is just part of a big mail complex and located on the inner 
side of my network


The other parts are GATEWAYS ( postfix based ) and backends ( EXCHANGE based). 
We use virtual
domains ( host around 100 ) domains.

Mail is routed GW = EXCHANGE = Mailman server, so if I have a list in a 
domain called  mydom...@xyz.commailto:mydom...@xyz.com
and also a lot of users in that domain,  we need to make EXCHG forward any 
address it can't solve to the
Mailman server, to make sure that mail to the list 
mydom...@xyz.commailto:mydom...@xyz.com is processed.

We could of course let the EXCHG system be authoritative for the domain but 
that would imply that all mailman addresses
Is added as contacts in EXCHG. I'm not the EXCHG guy and when I talk about 
this..

Because if this I get all garbage mail sent to 
mydom...@xyz.commailto:mydom...@xyz.com . We have some sort of address 
control but I can't
Avoid some of the garbage.

Due to this I need to make the postfix on the mailman server aware of what 
addresses to handle and reject anything else.

This is not a big problem but before I dig into this and make a script I would 
ask if this is already done.

I have the listnames in virtual-mailman and can get a list of members with the 
script list_members.

Any hints ?


Best regards

Peter Sorensen/Univ.Of.South.Denmark/Email: mas...@sdu.dk
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question concerning list of members as relay_recipients in postfix

[Mark Sapiro]

On 6/15/2011 11:52 PM, Peter Sørensen wrote:
 
 Due to this I need to make the postfix on the mailman server aware of what 
 addresses to handle and reject anything else.
 
 This is not a big problem but before I dig into this and make a script I 
 would ask if this is already done.
 
 I have the listnames in virtual-mailman and can get a list of members with 
 the script list_members.


I don't understand the problem? Doesn't Postfix already reject mail for
unknown recipients? The only Mailman recipients are the listname(-*)@...
addresses that Postfix already knows via data/virtual-mailman and
data/aliases. If there are also list members on the mailman server, they
should have mailboxes or be otherwise deliverable. The only Mailman
related mail to list members is outgoing mail.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question concerning list of members as relay_recipients in postfix

[Peter Sørensen]

The problem is that I use the GW as a smtp relay for the mailman server so when 
the
GW receive a mail for an address in mydom...@xyz.com this is forwarded to the 
EXCHG
system and because EXCHG is'nt authorative for the domain because we also 
handle mailman list
created in this domain unknown adresses is forwarded to the mailman server. If 
this is'nt for a list 
this would be redirectet back to the GW because the mail servers use this as a 
smtp relay. Therefore
I need to make this server aware of adsresses it should accept mail for.

Hope this clarify what I want to achieve.

regards

Peter

Fra: Mark Sapiro [m...@msapiro.net]
Sendt: 16. juni 2011 17:30
Til: Peter Sørensen
Cc: mailman-users@python.org
Emne: Re: [Mailman-Users] Question concerning list of members as
relay_recipients in postfix

On 6/15/2011 11:52 PM, Peter Sørensen wrote:

 Due to this I need to make the postfix on the mailman server aware of what 
 addresses to handle and reject anything else.

 This is not a big problem but before I dig into this and make a script I 
 would ask if this is already done.

 I have the listnames in virtual-mailman and can get a list of members with 
 the script list_members.


I don't understand the problem? Doesn't Postfix already reject mail for
unknown recipients? The only Mailman recipients are the listname(-*)@...
addresses that Postfix already knows via data/virtual-mailman and
data/aliases. If there are also list members on the mailman server, they
should have mailboxes or be otherwise deliverable. The only Mailman
related mail to list members is outgoing mail.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question concerning list of members as relay_recipients in postfix

[Mark Sapiro]

On 6/16/2011 12:06 PM, Peter Sørensen wrote:
 The problem is that I use the GW as a smtp relay for the mailman server so 
 when the
 GW receive a mail for an address in mydom...@xyz.com this is forwarded to the 
 EXCHG
 system and because EXCHG is'nt authorative for the domain because we also 
 handle mailman list
 created in this domain unknown adresses is forwarded to the mailman server. 
 If this is'nt for a list 
 this would be redirectet back to the GW because the mail servers use this as 
 a smtp relay. Therefore
 I need to make this server aware of adsresses it should accept mail for.
 
 Hope this clarify what I want to achieve.

and previously:
 Due to this I need to make the postfix on the mailman server aware of what 
 addresses to handle and reject anything else.


So now it seems you are saying you need to make the postfix on the
gateway server aware of what addresses to handle.

You can use Mailman's data/virtual-mailman.db directly in
relay_recipient_maps on the gateway server.

You could create a script on the Mailman server containing

#!/bin/sh
/usr/sbin/postmap $1

followed by an rsync or whatever to update the file on the gateway

and put

POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/path/to/script'

in mm_cfg.py to keep the files in sync.

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[Mailman-Users] Question after 10.6.7 upgrade on osx server

[Mark Prewitt]

Good Day,

We just upgraded our OSX server from 10.6.5 to 10.6.7, and it was kind
enough to nuke our Mailman defaults.py file.

We had setup defaults in this so that the include_sender_header always
defaulted to 'no' when a new list was created, but apparently, no one
remembers how we did this (including me).

I cannot find it in the documentation.  This upgrade put us at 2.1.14 as the
version.

 

I do have the Allow Sender overrides set to yes, and we can fix it by
going in to each list we have manually and setting the option to 'no' for
our lists.

However, we'd like to pre-set as many options as possible for when new lists
are created.  We use this feature for internal project lists and we create
and delete lists constantly.

 

I thought I could just put in the variable 'include_sender_header = No'  in
the mm_cfg.py  file and it might work, but that didn't.

 

Help?
Mark

 

 

Mark Prewitt
Director of IT
M: 503.984.9700
O: 206.521.8717

Seattle | San Francisco | Silicon Valley | San Diego | Phoenix | Austin |
Dallas | Houston | Chicago


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question after 10.6.7 upgrade on osx server

[Mark Sapiro]

Mark Prewitt wrote:

We just upgraded our OSX server from 10.6.5 to 10.6.7, and it was kind
enough to nuke our Mailman defaults.py file.


It is not clear whether or not you had actually changed Defaults.py,
but if you had, this is why you shouldn't have. All changes should be
made in mm_cfg.py which should survive an upgrade unless Apple does
something wrong.


We had setup defaults in this so that the include_sender_header always
defaulted to 'no' when a new list was created, but apparently, no one
remembers how we did this (including me).

I cannot find it in the documentation.  This upgrade put us at 2.1.14 as the
version.


You must have been at 2.1.14 before as that is the first release with
include_sender_header.

You can't find anything in the documentation about a setting for the
default value of include_sender_header because there isn't one.


If you want to default it to No for new lists, you have to patch
Mailman/MailList.py around line 366 to change

self.include_sender_header = 1

to

self.include_sender_header = 0


I do have the Allow Sender overrides set to yes, and we can fix it by
going in to each list we have manually and setting the option to 'no' for
our lists.


See the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/MIBp.


However, we'd like to pre-set as many options as possible for when new lists
are created.  We use this feature for internal project lists and we create
and delete lists constantly.

 

I thought I could just put in the variable 'include_sender_header = No'  in
the mm_cfg.py  file and it might work, but that didn't.


If a setting isn't in Defaults.py, it isn't referenced, and putting it
in mm_cfg.py, no matter how logical it seems, does nothing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] Question about excessive bounces

[Mike.Mcrae]

Hi,

I administrate two Mailman mailing lists at ScienceByEmailHTML and 
ScienceByEmailPlain. We have approximately 39 000 addresses in the former list, 
and about 1000 in the latter. I have a question about the bounces we receive.

We have the lists set so after five bounces, the address is automatically 
disabled. An notification is sent alerting us to the disabled account, where we 
then delete the address from our own records as well as Mailman.

Depending on the week, we can get over a hundred of these notifications which 
come in batches, arriving typically on Friday (although we also get waves 
coming in on Monday as well).

However, we can also go a week without receiving a single one. Given the spread 
of excessive bounces is often in excess of a hundred, and rarely fewer than 60 
or 70, I'm wondering if you know why this might be the case. Also, why do they 
arrive in waves? Is it collated and sent periodically through Mailman, or is it 
a result of batches of bounces being sent back from servers?

Cheers,

Mike
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about excessive bounces

[Ralf Hildebrandt]

* mike.mc...@csiro.au mike.mc...@csiro.au:
 Hi,
 
 I administrate two Mailman mailing lists at ScienceByEmailHTML and
 ScienceByEmailPlain. We have approximately 39 000 addresses in the
 former list, and about 1000 in the latter. I have a question about the
 bounces we receive.
 
 We have the lists set so after five bounces, the address is
 automatically disabled. An notification is sent alerting us to the
 disabled account, where we then delete the address from our own records
 as well as Mailman.
 
 Depending on the week, we can get over a hundred of these notifications
 which come in batches, arriving typically on Friday (although we also
 get waves coming in on Monday as well).

Well, since bounces are generated when mails are sent via the list,
the waves would correspond to about ever 5th posting on the list.

No traffic - No bounces - no unsubscriptions

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
  Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin
  Campus Benjamin Franklin
  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebra...@charite.de | http://www.charite.de

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about excessive bounces

[Mark Sapiro]

mike.mc...@csiro.au wrote:

I administrate two Mailman mailing lists at ScienceByEmailHTML and 
ScienceByEmailPlain. We have approximately 39 000 addresses in the former 
list, and about 1000 in the latter. I have a question about the bounces we 
receive.

We have the lists set so after five bounces, the address is automatically 
disabled. An notification is sent alerting us to the disabled account, where 
we then delete the address from our own records as well as Mailman.


Mailman will automatically delete members with delivery disabled by
bounce according to the settings bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings and
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval. If
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings is set to 0, the member will be
removed immediately after the disabling bounce is received.


Depending on the week, we can get over a hundred of these notifications which 
come in batches, arriving typically on Friday (although we also get waves 
coming in on Monday as well).


This is strange. Unless you only post on Friday's and Mondays, or
unless there is some unusual reason for the bouncing addresses to go
bad, I would expect bounces to be uniformly distributed over the days
there are posts.

Also, I find it possibly unusual that even out of 40,000 addresses that
100+ per week go bad, but maybe not.


However, we can also go a week without receiving a single one. Given the 
spread of excessive bounces is often in excess of a hundred, and rarely fewer 
than 60 or 70, I'm wondering if you know why this might be the case. Also, why 
do they arrive in waves? Is it collated and sent periodically through Mailman, 
or is it a result of batches of bounces being sent back from servers?


Mailman collects bounces and processes them in batches, but this
depends on the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting REGISTER_BOUNCES_EVERY
which defaults to 15 minutes, and even if it were for some strange
(and probably misguided) reason set to something like 5 to 7 days, I
would still expect bounce day to be more variable.

You need to check Mailman's 'bounce' log to see when bounces are being
received/registered, and Mailman's 'smtp-failure' log for potential
delivery issues. You also need to look at the actual bounce
notifications attached to the disabled notices to see that these seem
to be legitimate bounces.

-- 
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about excessive bounces

[Mark Sapiro]

Mark Sapiro wrote:

You need to check Mailman's 'bounce' log to see when bounces are being
received/registered, and Mailman's 'smtp-failure' log for potential
delivery issues. You also need to look at the actual bounce
notifications attached to the disabled notices to see that these seem
to be legitimate bounces.


There is also the possibility that due to some strangeness in your
outgoing MTA, messages are queued there for a long time and sent
mostly on Fridays and Mondays. Look at your MTA's logs and perhaps
Mailman's 'smtp' log too and see what's going on there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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