Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain support
Geoff Shang wrote: I will review your patch, and I used list-domain.tld instead of list.domain.tld, but I basically came to the same conclusion and just implemented same. I got the idea from http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-September/063254.html This really needs to be documented somewhere. And by somewhere I recommend you put it into the Mailman Wiki, probably just add it to the FAQs: http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked+Questions I'm guessing it should be in site admin tasks: http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/4+Site+administrator+tasks So here's a link to a page where you can cut and paste the info that you think should be recorded: http://wiki.list.org/pages/createpage.action?spaceKey=DOCfromPageId=4030488 So if you've got a minute to summarize the stuff and put it there, that would be awesome. Thanks! :) Terri -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain support
On Thu, 8 Oct 2009, Terri Oda wrote: Geoff Shang wrote: I will review your patch, and I used list-domain.tld instead of This really needs to be documented somewhere. And by somewhere I recommend you put it into the Mailman Wiki, probably just add it to the FAQs: I'll do this. I probably won't get a chance for a few days as we're still madly setting up stuff over here but I will definitely write up something. Geoff. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain support
Hi Mark, re multiple installs, On Mon, 5 Oct 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote: The post at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037443.html (linked from the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030604) has good information. I don't thing there's anything better collected in one place. I'm now working through this and have hit a bit of a problem. The post in question reads as follows: Where thing may get more complicated is setting up your local MTA to support virtual hosts. For instance, aliases generated by the per-host copies of $per-host-prefix/bin/newlist will generate alias definitions that pipe to the correct per-host instance of the Mailman delivery agent script but getting your MTA to recognise the aliases belong to one host rather than another is not something I am familiar with. This would appear to be the sticking point. The aliases file doesn't generate fully-qualified Email addresses, only local parts. How do I ensure that a message to annou...@foo.com doesn't go to annou...@bar.org? This must be doable, because if it's not, then this defeats the whole point of doing this in the first place. Presumably I need to do this in postfix/main.cf somehow but I'm at a loss as to how to do this. Geoff. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain support
Geoff Shang wrote: This would appear to be the sticking point. The aliases file doesn't generate fully-qualified Email addresses, only local parts. How do I ensure that a message to annou...@foo.com doesn't go to annou...@bar.org? This must be doable, because if it's not, then this defeats the whole point of doing this in the first place. Presumably I need to do this in postfix/main.cf somehow but I'm at a loss as to how to do this. Not sure if this will help you or not, but I'll share anywhere ... I have a multi setup for mailman to host multiple domains. All my list domains are configured as 'lists.$domain', for example 'lists.yeehaw.net'. My mailman installations all go under /home/mailman/lists.$domain I don't know how this is done in postfix, but in sendmail I have the following: = /etc/mail/aliases/$domain-aliases mailman-lists.$domain \ |/home/mailman/lists.$domain/mail/$domain-mailman post mailman mailman-admin-lists.$domain:\ |/home/mailman/lists.$domain/mail/$domain-mailman admin mailman mailman-bounces-lists.$domain: \ |/home/mailman/lists.$domain/mail/$domain-mailman bounces mailman mailman-confirm-lists.$domain: \ |/home/mailman/lists.$domain/mail/$domain-mailman confirm mailman = /etc/mail/virtusertable mail...@lists.$domain mailman-lists.$domain mailman-ad...@lists.$domainmailman-admin-lists.$domain mailman-boun...@lists.$domain mailman-bounces-lists.$domain mailman-conf...@lists.$domain mailman-confirm-lists.$domain This ensures that an incoming e-mail to say for example 'mailman-ad...@lists.$domain' gets rerouted to 'mailman-admin-lists.$domain' which the alias then expands in to '|/home/mailman/lists.$domain/mail/$domain-mailman admin mailman' This allows one to have various mailman@'various domains' going to the same server through the same MTA without it going nutso. Now you may be wondering why I renamed the 'mailman' binary to '$domain-mailman'. That's because of permissions within sendmail. Any binary that is going to be sending stuff out needs to be allowed by sendmail, and since I have multiple installations of mailman, in different paths, you can't just tell sendmail it's called 'mailman'. It will get utterly confused when the various lists are trying to send something out. So, by renaming each one to their respective $domain, it keeps sendmail from going bonkers. In my /usr/adm/sm.bin/ I have various symlinks to $domain-mailman which link back to /home/mailman/lists-$domain/mail/$domain-mailman Cheers -- W | It's not a bug - it's an undocumented feature. + Ashley M. Kirchner mailto:ash...@pcraft.com . 303.442.6410 x130 IT Director / SysAdmin / Websmith . 800.441.3873 x130 Photo Craft Imaging . 2901 55th Street http://www.pcraft.com . . .. Boulder, CO 80301, U.S.A. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain support
On Wed, 7 Oct 2009, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote: Geoff Shang wrote: This would appear to be the sticking point. The aliases file doesn't generate fully-qualified Email addresses, only local parts. How do I ensure that a message to annou...@foo.com doesn't go to annou...@bar.org? [snip] I have a multi setup for mailman to host multiple domains. All my list domains are configured as 'lists.$domain', for example 'lists.yeehaw.net'. My mailman installations all go under /home/mailman/lists.$domain I don't know how this is done in postfix, but in sendmail I have the following: = /etc/mail/aliases/$domain-aliases mailman-lists.$domain \ |/home/mailman/lists.$domain/mail/$domain-mailman post mailman mailman-admin-lists.$domain:\ |/home/mailman/lists.$domain/mail/$domain-mailman admin mailman Ok but how do you get Mailman to produce alias tables that look like that? Or don't you? Mine only have the list address part, not the fully qualified list address. Geoff. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain support
Geoff Shang wrote:
On Wed, 7 Oct 2009, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
I have a multi setup for mailman to host multiple domains. All my list
domains are configured as 'lists.$domain', for example 'lists.yeehaw.net'.
My mailman installations all go under /home/mailman/lists.$domain
I don't know how this is done in postfix, but in sendmail I have the
following:
= /etc/mail/aliases/$domain-aliases
mailman-lists.$domain \
|/home/mailman/lists.$domain/mail/$domain-mailman post mailman
mailman-admin-lists.$domain:\
|/home/mailman/lists.$domain/mail/$domain-mailman admin mailman
Ok but how do you get Mailman to produce alias tables that look like that?
Or don't you? Mine only have the list address part, not the fully
qualified list address.
For Postfix integration, you need to do a few things.
Consider only the one mailman instance for the domain example.com. The
others will be analagous.
in mm_cfg.py, add
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example.com']
This will cause mailman to also write data/virtual-mailman with entries
like
l...@example.comlist
list-ad...@example.com list-admin
...
in addition to data/aliases with entries like
list: |path/to/wrapper post list
list-admin: |path/to/wrapper admin list
...
for each list. The data/virtual-mailman(.db) is analagous to Ashley's
/etc/mail/virtusertable.
There is still a problem in that there is a potential list name
conflict, so to resolve that, you need to make a patch (see attached
Postfix.patch.txt) to Mailman/MTA/Postfix to make virtual-mailman and
aliases look like
l...@example.comlist.example.com
list-ad...@example.com list-admin.example.com
...
and
list.example.com: |path/to/wrapper post list
list-admin.example.com: |path/to/wrapper admin list
...
Then you need the following in Postfix's main.cf
alias_maps = ...
hash:/path/to/example.com's/data/aliases
virtual_alias_domains ... example.com
virtual_alias_maps = ...
hash:/path/to/example.com's/data/virtual-mailman
And probably also if you don't have them anyway
recipient_delimiter = +
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
--
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--- f:/test-mailman-2.1/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py 2008-08-22 15:18:57.0
-0700
+++ f:/test-mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py 2009-10-07 17:24:52.21875
-0700
@@ -102,14 +102,16 @@
if mlist is None:
return
listname = mlist.internal_name()
+hostname = mlist.host_name
fieldsz = len(listname) + len('-unsubscribe')
# The text file entries get a little extra info
print fp, '# STANZA START:', listname
print fp, '# CREATED:', time.ctime(time.time())
# Now add all the standard alias entries
for k, v in makealiases(listname):
+qname = '%s.%s:' % (k, hostname)
# Format the text file nicely
-print fp, k + ':', ((fieldsz - len(k)) * ' ') + v
+print fp, qname, ((fieldsz - len(k)) * ' ') + v
# Finish the text file stanza
print fp, '# STANZA END:', listname
print fp
@@ -147,7 +149,7 @@
for k, v in makealiases(listname):
fqdnaddr = '%...@%s' % (k, hostname)
# Format the text file nicely
-print fp, fqdnaddr, ((fieldsz - len(k)) * ' '), k
+print fp, fqdnaddr, ((fieldsz - len(k)) * ' '), k + '.' + hostname
# Finish the text file stanza
print fp, '# STANZA END:', listname
print fp
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain support
On Wed, 7 Oct 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
Geoff Shang wrote:
On Wed, 7 Oct 2009, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
= /etc/mail/aliases/$domain-aliases
mailman-lists.$domain \
|/home/mailman/lists.$domain/mail/$domain-mailman post mailman
mailman-admin-lists.$domain:\
|/home/mailman/lists.$domain/mail/$domain-mailman admin mailman
Ok but how do you get Mailman to produce alias tables that look like that?
Or don't you? Mine only have the list address part, not the fully
qualified list address.
{snip}
There is still a problem in that there is a potential list name
conflict, so to resolve that, you need to make a patch (see attached
ah...
I will review your patch, and I used list-domain.tld instead of
list.domain.tld, but I basically came to the same conclusion and just
implemented same. I got the idea from
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-September/063254.html
This really needs to be documented somewhere.
does using a dash vs a dot as a separater make any difference re eventual
upgrade path? I'm still testing at this point but I'll be making a lot of
lists soon, so now's the time to change anything.
Thanks again,
Geoff.
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain support
Geoff Shang wrote: On Wed, 7 Oct 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote: There is still a problem in that there is a potential list name conflict, so to resolve that, you need to make a patch (see attached ah... I will review your patch, and I used list-domain.tld instead of list.domain.tld, but I basically came to the same conclusion and just implemented same. I got the idea from http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-September/063254.html This really needs to be documented somewhere. Yes. I'll see about a FAQ. Maybe you could help when you get it all worked through. does using a dash vs a dot as a separater make any difference re eventual upgrade path? I'm still testing at this point but I'll be making a lot of lists soon, so now's the time to change anything. I don't think so. I actually was going to use an underscore, but I went with the dot because Ashley was using a dot. Changing after the fact is not hard. You'd only need to change Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py and run bin/genaliases for each domain. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain support
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote: You seem to have done your homework well, and to have a good understanding of the issues. You can learn a lot in 5 hours of reading. :) I found http://ndim.fedorapeople.org/stuff/mailman-vhost/ which appears to contain the same patches that were at http://nix.lauft.net/htdocs/mailman/. Thanks for this. This stuff looks a bit old. It's patches against Mailman 2.1.7 and files seem to date back to 2006. The docs talk about what's going to happen in 2008. Does this code patch against 2.1.12? Is there newer code than this or should I get it from git? And is there any more documentation than the ReadMe files on this site? I thought I saw a branch up in the Launchpad project that deals with this. Is that a better place to start than these patches? Are these patches still the recommended way to achieve what I'm looking for? My concerns right now are: 1. I need to implement this on a production system, so it has to implement the ability to have the same list names on multiple domains and domain-specific site passwords. And it needs to be stable (i.e. it needs to work as advertised). 2. I need to deploy this pretty quickly so I need some documentation or at least people willing to help if I get stuck. and 3. I need to know if the changes proposed here (or anywhere) will be compatible with what will eventually be adopted in mainline, or at least that there will be some kind of migration path. I can't really afford to send us down a dead-end path. I'm sorry about all the questions but I'm a bit under the pump here, but I also want to do it right the first time. Any advice anyone can give will be most gratefully received. Geoff. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain support
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote: I just applied the mailman-2.1.7-20060114-to-vhost.patch to the 2.1.12 base and it applied with only two rejects, both of which are easy to fix. Whether the patched code will actually work and meet your requirements, I can't say. I probably can't afford the luxury of testing it, at least not now. I thought I saw a branch up in the Launchpad project that deals with this. Is that a better place to start than these patches? Maybe, but I don't see one at https://code.launchpad.net/mailman?field.lifecycle=ALL. Well it was something like 3 in the morning when I was looking. Let me see... Ok, scrub that. Was something else. Are these patches still the recommended way to achieve what I'm looking for? I don't recommend any of these patches. Multiple Mailman instances is the recommended way for Mailman 2.1 ah. This is what I need to hear. My concerns right now are: 1. I need to implement this on a production system, so it has to implement the ability to have the same list names on multiple domains and domain-specific site passwords. And it needs to be stable (i.e. it needs to work as advertised). I don't see that these patches implement a domain specific site password. hmmm...I see it's listed as an outstanding issue. My recommendation would be to create separate Mailman instances per domain. I know you said originally 3. Multiple installs. I'd rather not do this if I can help it. Not only do I have to make sure that all of them play nice with the mail system (postfix), but I can see the day when we'll want to upgrade, and that's going to mean upgrading something like 7 installations. ergh. This may be a pain if you use a package that isn't designed for it, but I wouldn't do this with a package, I can't see how I could get it to install into different places without a *lot* of gymnastics like chroots. if you install from source and you have Mailman generating aliases and virtual maps for Postfix, all this means is you need to add 7 entries to alias_maps and virtual_alias_maps instead of just one. Ok...This is tarting to sound doable. It also means I can get the most important domains up quickly. Is there any documentation for doing this? I need to have 7 lots of everything, right? And as long as you keep track of your configure commands, upgrading a source install is very easy and straightforward. Upgrading 7 unpatched installations is probably easier than upgrading 1 patched one. Yeah I guess it would be. We know this works, and there will be a migration path to MM 3. That was my other concern about this approach - how to integrate into a unified install once it is officially supported. But if you will be providing an upgrade path from multiple installs then this makes me more comfortable with the idea. Geoff. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] Virtual domain support
Hello, Apologies for jumping onto the list and posting right away, I realise it's bad netiquette. I admin two servers for a large non-profit organisation. On Thursday, one of them died. At the time we were using a different mailing list manager, but had plans to gently migrate the dozens of lists to Mailman. Now what was going to be an orderly migration is now a frantic scramble, as mailing lists are the lifeblood of the workings of the organisation. But I've run into a problem. I'd assumed that Mailman could support virtual domains without list-name collisions, as I'd seen it done in a few places. But according to the FAQ and everything else I've read this evening, it's not the case. This is about all I know though. There seems to be much posted on the subject. It seems it'll be in version 3, and people have asked for it to be in version 2.2. I've seen mentions of multiple patches and multiple versions ranging over the last 6 years or so. And the WIKI FAQ entry, which itself was updated 2 years ago, points to a patch at http://nix.lauft.net/htdocs/mailman/ which is generating a Connection Refused error. So I'm a bit stuck and am not sure where to go next. I see I've only really got 4 choices: 1. Use some other list manager. I'm not keen on this. I very much like Mailman and so does everyone else with any influence in the technical area. Since we've struggled under the weight of an ancient version of EZMLM for 8 years, I'm *very* keen to move to Mailman ... and I'm not the only one. I expect a revolt if I even dare to suggest this. 2. Just install the Ubuntu package (2.1.9) as is and hope for the best. NOt a good idea. Since I will be supporting at least 7 domains and probably 40+ mailing lists, the chances of a name collision is pretty high. And I don't want to get the various list admins to put a prefix or suffix on their list names because people are bound to forget ... besides, there's also the domain-specific admin password that I also want. 3. Multiple installs. I'd rather not do this if I can help it. Not only do I have to make sure that all of them play nice with the mail system (postfix), but I can see the day when we'll want to upgrade, and that's going to mean upgrading something like 7 installations. ergh. 4. Use one of these patches. This is my prefered route. I can see I'm going to have to install from sources most likely unless there's a patched deb out there somewhere that's fairly current. But as long as the patch does what is eventually going to be merged into the mainline code so that our lists won't break when we can finally upgrade to it, I should be OK to run it. I thank you in advance for any advice anyone can give. I've got a lot of people waiting for this installation, but I've said that I'm not going to rush it. Still, I don't think I can stall too long either. Cheers, Geoff. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] Virtual domain support
Hello, Apologies for jumping onto the list and posting right away, I realise it's bad netiquette. I admin two servers for a large non-profit organisation. On Thursday, one of them died. At the time we were using a different mailing list manager, but had plans to gently migrate the dozens of lists to Mailman. Now what was going to be an orderly migration is now a frantic scramble, as mailing lists are the lifeblood of the workings of the organisation. But I've run into a problem. I'd assumed that Mailman could support virtual domains without list-name collisions, as I'd seen it done in a few places. But according to the FAQ and everything else I've read this evening, it's not the case. This is about all I know though. There seems to be much posted on the subject. It seems it'll be in version 3, and people have asked for it to be in version 2.2. I've seen mentions of multiple patches and multiple versions ranging over the last 6 years or so. And the WIKI FAQ entry, which itself was updated 2 years ago, points to a patch at http://nix.lauft.net/htdocs/mailman/ which is generating a Connection Refused error. So I'm a bit stuck and am not sure where to go next. I see I've only really got 4 choices: 1. Use some other list manager. I'm not keen on this. I very much like Mailman and so does everyone else with any influence in the technical area. Since we've struggled under the weight of an ancient version of EZMLM for 8 years, I'm *very* keen to move to Mailman ... and I'm not the only one. I expect a revolt if I even dare to suggest this. 2. Just install the Ubuntu package (2.1.9) as is and hope for the best. NOt a good idea. Since I will be supporting at least 7 domains and probably 40+ mailing lists, the chances of a name collision is pretty high. And I don't want to get the various list admins to put a prefix or suffix on their list names because people are bound to forget ... besides, there's also the domain-specific admin password that I also want. 3. Multiple installs. I'd rather not do this if I can help it. Not only do I have to make sure that all of them play nice with the mail system (postfix), but I can see the day when we'll want to upgrade, and that's going to mean upgrading something like 7 installations. ergh. 4. Use one of these patches. This is my prefered route. I can see I'm going to have to install from sources most likely unless there's a patched deb out there somewhere that's fairly current. But as long as the patch does what is eventually going to be merged into the mainline code so that our lists won't break when we can finally upgrade to it, I should be OK to run it. I thank you in advance for any advice anyone can give. I've got a lot of people waiting for this installation, but I've said that I'm not going to rush it. Still, I don't think I can stall too long either. Cheers, Geoff. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain support
Geoff Shang wrote: This is about all I know though. There seems to be much posted on the subject. It seems it'll be in version 3, and people have asked for it to be in version 2.2. I've seen mentions of multiple patches and multiple versions ranging over the last 6 years or so. And the WIKI FAQ entry, which itself was updated 2 years ago, points to a patch at http://nix.lauft.net/htdocs/mailman/ which is generating a Connection Refused error. So I'm a bit stuck and am not sure where to go next. You seem to have done your homework well, and to have a good understanding of the issues. I found http://ndim.fedorapeople.org/stuff/mailman-vhost/ which appears to contain the same patches that were at http://nix.lauft.net/htdocs/mailman/. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain support
Geoff Shang wrote This stuff looks a bit old. It's patches against Mailman 2.1.7 and files seem to date back to 2006. The docs talk about what's going to happen in 2008. Does this code patch against 2.1.12? Is there newer code than this or should I get it from git? And is there any more documentation than the ReadMe files on this site? I just applied the mailman-2.1.7-20060114-to-vhost.patch to the 2.1.12 base and it applied with only two rejects, both of which are easy to fix. Whether the patched code will actually work and meet your requirements, I can't say. I thought I saw a branch up in the Launchpad project that deals with this. Is that a better place to start than these patches? Maybe, but I don't see one at https://code.launchpad.net/mailman?field.lifecycle=ALL. Are these patches still the recommended way to achieve what I'm looking for? I don't recommend any of these patches. Multiple Mailman instances is the recommended way for Mailman 2.1 My concerns right now are: 1. I need to implement this on a production system, so it has to implement the ability to have the same list names on multiple domains and domain-specific site passwords. And it needs to be stable (i.e. it needs to work as advertised). I don't see that these patches implement a domain specific site password. 2. I need to deploy this pretty quickly so I need some documentation or at least people willing to help if I get stuck. I'm not aware of any documentation for this patch beyond what's in the README files. and 3. I need to know if the changes proposed here (or anywhere) will be compatible with what will eventually be adopted in mainline, or at least that there will be some kind of migration path. I can't really afford to send us down a dead-end path. My recommendation would be to create separate Mailman instances per domain. I know you said originally 3. Multiple installs. I'd rather not do this if I can help it. Not only do I have to make sure that all of them play nice with the mail system (postfix), but I can see the day when we'll want to upgrade, and that's going to mean upgrading something like 7 installations. ergh. This may be a pain if you use a package that isn't designed for it, but if you install from source and you have Mailman generating aliases and virtual maps for Postfix, all this means is you need to add 7 entries to alias_maps and virtual_alias_maps instead of just one. And as long as you keep track of your configure commands, upgrading a source install is very easy and straightforward. Upgrading 7 unpatched installations is probably easier than upgrading 1 patched one. We know this works, and there will be a migration path to MM 3. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain support
Geoff Shang wrote: Ok...This is tarting to sound doable. It also means I can get the most important domains up quickly. Is there any documentation for doing this? I need to have 7 lots of everything, right? The post at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037443.html (linked from the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030604) has good information. I don't thing there's anything better collected in one place. You do need to have 7 complete installations of Mailman, but only one Postfix and one web server. You can start with just one or two instances, but give some thought to how you will name things before you start. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
I've been away from the list for a while, and am curious: Will virtual domains support be included in Mailman 2.2...if they are not already? By virtual domain support I mean the ability to support email lists from multiple domains via one GNUMailman installation on one server. I manage virtual-domain-based servers, and would love to not to have install a different Mailman instance for every domain I support. (Mailman remains the only collaborative app I use--and I use a lot of them--which I deem not sufficiently virtual-domain capable.) -Matt -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
Matt England wrote: I've been away from the list for a while, and am curious: Will virtual domains support be included in Mailman 2.2...if they are not already? By virtual domain support I mean the ability to support email lists from multiple domains via one GNUMailman installation on one server. I manage virtual-domain-based servers, and would love to not to have install a different Mailman instance for every domain I support. (Mailman remains the only collaborative app I use--and I use a lot of them--which I deem not sufficiently virtual-domain capable.) I run multiple lists with Mailman, been doing so since v1.1 (or was it 1.2?). Anyway, virtual domains work for me. What virtual domain problem do you have with recent MM versions? -Jim P. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
At 1/26/2006 07:47 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote: I run multiple lists with Mailman, been doing so since v1.1 (or was it 1.2?). Anyway, virtual domains work for me. What virtual domain problem do you have with recent MM versions? [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ie, same list name, different domains, different lists/reflectors) will not work for the same Mailman server...or at least, so I'm told. -Matt -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
Matt England wrote: At 1/26/2006 07:47 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote: I run multiple lists with Mailman, been doing so since v1.1 (or was it 1.2?). Anyway, virtual domains work for me. What virtual domain problem do you have with recent MM versions? [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ie, same list name, different domains, different lists/reflectors) will not work for the same Mailman server...or at least, so I'm told. That depends on a few things. For starters, does your MTA support [EMAIL PROTECTED] AND [EMAIL PROTECTED] If it does, then you will need to use the virtualization features of your MTA to map each list to a unique local email account. I.E.: in sendmail this would be the virtusertable where you would map [EMAIL PROTECTED] to list-a and [EMAIL PROTECTED] to list-b. Your sendmail aliases file would then contain entires like this: list-a:|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post list-a list-a-admin: |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin list-a list-b:|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post list-b list-b-admin: |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin list-b Additionally, using virtualization features of your MTA, you need to change sender (outbound) addresses so that email from list-a appears as coming from [EMAIL PROTECTED] not [EMAIL PROTECTED] In sendmail this is done in genericstable. At this point you can change each Mailman list settings so that emails aesthetically appear as from LIST instead of LIST-A or LIST-B (subject line, footer, subscription notice, etc). The real visible issue may arise in URLs that users will use (i.e. http://server/mailman/list). You will need to configure your webserver to redirect http://domain1.com/mailman/list to http://domain1.com/mailman/list-a AND http://domain2.com/mailman/list to redirect to http://domain2.com/mailman/list-b. I suppose you could also use proxy features of Apache to proxy http://domain2.com/mailman/list-b as http://domain2.com/mailman/list and the same for list-a. Shouldn't be too difficult. NONE of the above will ever completely hide the real list name from email headers, but who really looks at those these days? :-) Hth, -Jim P. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
At 1/26/2006 09:09 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote: That depends on a few things. For starters, does your MTA support [EMAIL PROTECTED] AND [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes. If it does, then you will need to use the virtualization features of your MTA to map each list to a unique local email account. Already done. vpopmail in qmail already has several different virtual domains running. I.E.: in sendmail this would be the virtusertable where you would map [EMAIL PROTECTED] to list-a and [EMAIL PROTECTED] to list-b. Your sendmail aliases file would then contain entires like this: list-a:|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post list-a list-a-admin: |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin list-a list-b:|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post list-b list-b-admin: |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin list-b sendmail. ** shudder ** [... rest of stuff deleted, not sure why we are talking about an MTA if it's a Mailman problem ...but yes, I know how to get my MTA to do this...] There's a sourceforge task/patch/faq somewhere talking about how this can be solved, but it required virtual-domain support. At this point you can change each Mailman list settings so that emails aesthetically appear as from LIST instead of LIST-A or LIST-B (subject line, footer, subscription notice, etc). The real visible issue may arise in URLs that users will use (i.e. http://server/mailman/list). You will need to configure your webserver to redirect http://domain1.com/mailman/list to http://domain1.com/mailman/list-a AND http://domain2.com/mailman/list to redirect to http://domain2.com/mailman/list-b. I suppose you could also use proxy features of Apache to proxy http://domain2.com/mailman/list-b as http://domain2.com/mailman/list and the same for list-a. Shouldn't be too difficult. I don't think I follow. Why do I need to use different listnames? TO BE CLEAR: I want Mailman changed to handle the virtual domainsso that I do NOT have to bend over backwards to do all the above stuff. And yes, I'm already managing all the virtual domains in Apache. NONE of the above will ever completely hide the real list name from email headers, but who really looks at those these days? :-) The point is: the REAL list name is associated with a domain, and list names are no longer represented without their domain name...if an appropriate fix is made...I hope. That's the point. We don't have to make any non-real list names. I don't want to hodge-podge Mailman. I want Mailman fixed to support this. Maybe I'm not understanding what your saying, Jim? Possibly vice versa? -Matt -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
Matt England wrote: sendmail. ** shudder ** Hey, no shudder here. I fully understand Sendmail, it works well and I sleep good at night. YMMV. [... rest of stuff deleted, not sure why we are talking about an MTA if it's a Mailman problem ...but yes, I know how to get my MTA to do this...] I mentioned the MTA because that is the crux of most peoples virtualization problems. Indeed 90% of using Mailman, with virtual domains, involves MTA config. There's a sourceforge task/patch/faq somewhere talking about how this can be solved, but it required virtual-domain support. Not sure what you are talking about here? Got URL? At this point you can change each Mailman list settings so that emails aesthetically appear as from LIST instead of LIST-A or LIST-B (subject line, footer, subscription notice, etc). The real visible issue may arise in URLs that users will use (i.e. http://server/mailman/list). You will need to configure your webserver to redirect http://domain1.com/mailman/list to http://domain1.com/mailman/list-a AND http://domain2.com/mailman/list to redirect to http://domain2.com/mailman/list-b. I suppose you could also use proxy features of Apache to proxy http://domain2.com/mailman/list-b as http://domain2.com/mailman/list and the same for list-a. Shouldn't be too difficult. I don't think I follow. Why do I need to use different listnames? TO BE CLEAR: I want Mailman changed to handle the virtual domainsso that I do NOT have to bend over backwards to do all the above stuff. Mailman stores list specific info in files names after each list. Therefore you can not have 2 identically named lists in Mailman. [snip] I don't want to hodge-podge Mailman. I want Mailman fixed to support this. It's not something that can be fixed in Mailman. Somethings in life are unique, Mailman's list names are one of those things. Changing Mailman to support 2 lists of the same name, would be akin to having a Linux server that supported 2 identical usernames (even though the MTA on that server supports virtual domains). It just isn't possible, and probably won't ever be due to the number of things that would have to be changed to support this. -Jim P. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
Matt England wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ie, same list name, different domains, different lists/reflectors) will not work for the same Mailman server...or at least, so I'm told. You are correct, at least as far as the standard 2.1.x distribution is concerned. There are some patches around. See http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=943827group_id=103atid=300103. There is also a link to cPanel's patches at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-January/041748.html. But reports from people who've tried these suggest that they may be an incomplete solution at best, and may not work at all. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
At 1/26/2006 09:43 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: There are some patches around. See http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=943827group_id=103atid=300103. There is also a link to cPanel's patches at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-January/041748.html. But reports from people who've tried these suggest that they may be an incomplete solution at best, and may not work at all. Ok, thanks. So the question is: is there any move afoot to change Mailman to support same list names across multiple domains? Why can't Mailman index it's list names such that the domain name is associated with the internal list name...thus allowing for the internal structure to have the same list name for different domains? I suspect the answer: it's hard because that support was not build into the architecture. And that's a fine answer for me. The followup question (assuming the above answer...which may or may not be a fair assumption): will this architecture ever be changed to remove this limitation? -Matt -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
Matt England wrote: So the question is: is there any move afoot to change Mailman to support same list names across multiple domains? Yes. See http://www.list.org/todo.html. Why can't Mailman index it's list names such that the domain name is associated with the internal list name...thus allowing for the internal structure to have the same list name for different domains? No reason. That's kind of what the patches I referred to in my earlier post do. I think the patches work by appending the virtual domain to the list name for internal purposes. It could also be done by adding a directory level, i.e. instead of lists/name/ use lists/domain/name/ and similarly for archives. I suspect the answer: it's hard because that support was not build into the architecture. And that's a fine answer for me. I think it's hard because it's hard to get it right everywhere, and the patches that are out there perhaps address everything that was important to someone, but not everything that could be important to anyone. The other issue is MTA related in that mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] has to be delivered to Mailman in a way that it can be distinguished from mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't know enough about various MTAs to know how or even if this can be done with all MTAs. The followup question (assuming the above answer...which may or may not be a fair assumption): will this architecture ever be changed to remove this limitation? Yes again. I think you'll see it in Mailman 3, but as I'm sure you well know, I can't give you a timeline for that except to say that it isn't imminent. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
At 1/26/2006 10:38 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: The followup question (assuming the above answer...which may or may not be a fair assumption): will this architecture ever be changed to remove this limitation? Yes again. I think you'll see it in Mailman 3, but as I'm sure you well know, I can't give you a timeline for that except to say that it isn't imminent. Ok, good. All my questions answered. Thanks! Best of luck with revs 2.2 and eventually 3. -Matt -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domain Support
I've made various runs at this without much success. For some reason I have trouble making some of the scripts work correctly with the symbolic links; i.e., they just plain won't follow them. Since I'm using chroot for some of my system services, I tried using that as well, but cron goes around it. My final solution seems to work, but it sure is messy. I use the virtual domain mechanism in Apache for web serving, but since sendmail's virtual domain mechanism isn't nearly as robust, I run separate copies of it through chroot. I deposit two separate copies of mailman in the virtual domain's home directory, one just a skeleton containing the cgi scripts and symbolic links to the other's data, and the other a full installation. It takes almost as long to describe as it does to actually implement, and it works well, but I've never been happy with the shear untidyness of the whole arrangement. It doesn't help that vixie cron and Apache both mysteriously misbehave in chrooted environments. Mailman ain't large, and hard disks are cheap, so I don't mind having virtual installations. Virtfs (a virtual domain utility) works very nicely and cuts my administration considerably, while adding some security. What I sorely want in mailman but don't have the time to write myself is the ability to just edit the paths in one configuration file to make it live wherever and act like whoever. The spaghettiness of Mailman doesn't currently support that (there's some bitterness there). If someone manages to make virtual domains, chroot and Mailman live together nicely, please let me know. I tried about five or six different approaches with no success. Dave Klingler Previously, Erik S.E. Walum said: We've been anticipating the fabled virtual domain support in mailman 2.0 for a long time, but alas, the only documentation on this appears to be a hack (ref: README.EXIM). IS there any further documentation on mailman 2.0's added support for virtualdomains, or was it simply a rewrite of the crontab entries to correctly handle virtualdomains? Has anyone figured out a way to do this withought installing multiple copies of mailman? Any suggestions from the peanut gallery? Rather than installing multiple copies of Mailman, might one install multiple instances? That being one master installation with virtual domain subdirectories which are mostly symlinks back to the main package? Except for the lists/ directory, the qfiles/ and so forth. That would just simplify upgrades greatly (you'd only have one set of files to be updated). -dan -- Dan Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://tangledhelix.com/ Is there another word for synonym? -George Carlin -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users -- Mailman-Users maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
