Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman setup for vhosts
On 14 Jun 2004, at 16:14, Scott R. Godin wrote: I have a website client that would like a push-only mailing list that his customers can subscribe to to receive announcements of special sales and new products, and trade show schedules. His website, however, is hosted on an ISP (running FreeBSD) who vhosts many different other sites. In the Features page, I don't really see any specific mention of whether mailman would handle a server with many different vhosted sites. Obviously one would like the clients to be able to subscribe and unsubscribe themselves via a web-interface, but how to provide a link to the client-side-admin page within the vhosted domain would be one question. Also I'm sure the ISP themselves would have questions regarding how this may affect their other vhosted sites. Can anyone provide me with some information and explanation of these issues? I'd be most grateful. This recent post discusses some relevant issues: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037415.html In a private follow-up to that post I further discussed some of the issues: On 13 Jun 2004, at 13:07, Richard Barrett wrote: Eric On 13 Jun 2004, at 03:40, Eric Pretorious wrote: Hi, Richard! On Friday 11 June 2004 11:23 pm, you wrote: With unmodified, standard Mailman source code, there is a single namespace for list names shared by all virtual host supported by a given Mailman installation. Multiple installations on the same machine can be used to avoid the list naming restrictions this creates. Is this difficult to configure? Not done this myself but I would not expect the Mailman end of it to be much harder than a normal Mailman source install; you just have to do it more than once. Say you would normally have installed Mailman into a directory called /mailman/run and run the Mailman ./configure with --prefix=/mailman/run and then make. My approach would be to perform per-hostname installs into directories named after the hostname, called for example /mailman/run/domX.tld, running the Mailman ./configure with --prefix=/mailman/run/domX.tld before running make install for each hostname to be supported You probably also want to use the --with-mailhost and --with-urlhost ./configure option to get the appropriate DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT-MAIL_HOST in each installation's Defaults.py although you could fix this after make'ing by assignment in mm_cfg.py In practice you will probably not have any add_virtualhost() calls in your mm_cfg.py except for the single DEFAULT_URL_HOST/DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST call as the use of real hosting removes the purpose of the normal Mailman virtual hosting setup. You are going to need separate Alias and ScriptAlias (and related) directives in each per-host VirtualHost container in your Apache httpd.conf, each of which refers to the matching host's Mailman installation directory. Behaviour when an HTTP client does not provide a Host: request header is going to be a little different if you use Apache named virtual hosts rather than numbered virtual hosts with distinct IP numbers. But practically all modern browsers supply the Host: header so I would not expect this to be a problem. Where thing may get more complicated is setting up your local MTA to support virtual hosts. For instance, aliases generated by the per-host copies of $per-host-prefix/bin/newlist will generate alias definitions that pipe to the correct per-host instance of the Mailman delivery agent script but getting your MTA to recognise the aliases belong to one host rather than another is not something I am familiar with. My impression is that doing this with Postfix or Exim (and possibly Qmail) is likely to be easier than with Sendmail; but I seem to have struggled for half a lifetime to understand Sendmail configuration, with little success, and am likely to die before that task is complete. Final thoughts: 1. each per-host installation has to have its own 'mailman' site list 2. moving lists between virtual hosts is a different ballgame and $prefix/bin/fix_url.py is no longer what you need to change a list's virtual host The modified version of Mailman, shipped by Cpanel as part of their commercial hosting product for ISPs, adopts a different, list-name-munging solution to the problem but Cpanel have not made the modified source code generally available in the public domain. Do you know where I could get it? I do not know much about Cpanel but messages asking for support from users have cropped up fairly frequently which is where the list-name-munging trick of Cpanel has come to notice. I would not go this route myself unless I was considering to run a hosting business as such but you could try starting your journey of discovery here http://www.cpanel.net/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ:
Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman setup for vhosts
At 11:14 AM -0400 2004-06-14, Scott R. Godin wrote: I have a website client that would like a push-only mailing list that his customers can subscribe to to receive announcements of special sales and new products, and trade show schedules. As far as this goes, it's simple enough to do. See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq03.011.htp. His website, however, is hosted on an ISP (running FreeBSD) who vhosts many different other sites. This is not necessarily a problem. If the mailing list server is hosted elsewhere where they can have a private copy of Mailman hosted for them, or if this is hosted as a virtual machine account where they can have a private copy of Mailman hosted. In the Features page, I don't really see any specific mention of whether mailman would handle a server with many different vhosted sites. Obviously one would like the clients to be able to subscribe and unsubscribe themselves via a web-interface, but how to provide a link to the client-side-admin page within the vhosted domain would be one question. Mailman handles virtual domains just fine. The problem is that this is done via aliases, and each listname is available from each virtual domain. So, you can't have two separate lists with the same name under different domains. The folks at CPanel have come up with their own private patches to resolve this issue, but then you'd have to host the list with them, or run their software. However, before you decide to do this, consider that if you run their software or host the list at their site, you'll have to get all your Mailman support from CPanel and not here. See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq06.011.htp. There are other patches to support virtual domains in a better/different fashion that I've seen posted to the list, but you'd have to see the archives. You should also search the SourceForge patches list for Mailman. I found an old patch at http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=943827group_id=103atid=300103 that was developed with Mailman 2.1.1-5.1/Debian stable, but I don't know how well they work, or how much work would be required to bring them forward to version 2.1.5. Also I'm sure the ISP themselves would have questions regarding how this may affect their other vhosted sites. Can anyone provide me with some information and explanation of these issues? I'd be most grateful. I think that searching the archives and SourceForge are likely to be your best bet. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman setup for vhosts
At 4:58 PM +0100 2004-06-14, Richard Barrett wrote: Can anyone provide me with some information and explanation of these issues? I'd be most grateful. This recent post discusses some relevant issues: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037415.html Okay, I've tried to tie these two threads together with the FAQ entry at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq04.047.htp. Please let me know if you think there need to be any changes made, or feel free to make them yourself. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
RE: [Mailman-Users] mailman setup for vhosts
-Original Message- [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Knowles Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 12:34 PM To: Scott R. Godin Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman setup for vhosts At 11:14 AM -0400 2004-06-14, Scott R. Godin wrote: I have a website client that would like a push-only mailing list that his customers can subscribe to to receive announcements of special sales and new products, and trade show schedules. As far as this goes, it's simple enough to do. See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq03.011.htp. His website, however, is hosted on an ISP (running FreeBSD) who vhosts many different other sites. This is not necessarily a problem. If the mailing list server is hosted elsewhere where they can have a private copy of Mailman hosted for them, or if this is hosted as a virtual machine account where they can have a private copy of Mailman hosted. In the Features page, I don't really see any specific mention of whether mailman would handle a server with many different vhosted sites. Obviously one would like the clients to be able to subscribe and unsubscribe themselves via a web-interface, but how to provide a link to the client-side-admin page within the vhosted domain would be one question. Mailman handles virtual domains just fine. The problem is that this is done via aliases, and each listname is available from each virtual domain. So, you can't have two separate lists with the same name under different domains. The folks at CPanel have come up with their own private patches to resolve this issue, but then you'd have to host the list with them, or run their software. However, before you decide to do this, consider that if you run their software or host the list at their site, you'll have to get all your Mailman support from CPanel and not here. See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq06.011.htp. There are other patches to support virtual domains in a better/different fashion that I've seen posted to the list, but you'd have to see the archives. You should also search the SourceForge patches list for Mailman. Ok, wading through this I possibly have some insight as we've been pounding on this solution in a Red Hat Linux environment for some time with success: http://forum.ev1servers.net/showthread.php?s=threadid=43004 We've managed to make an earlier version of Mailman that would do as this gent needs, but under Ensim Pro's chrooted environment with virtual sites. In this fashion we've managed to make separate and distinct copies of Mailman not only install but provide all the normal features for this revision. I'm using this now and it works without a hitch. I'd discussed any workarounds for a chrooted environment here about a year ago with limited success, but we finally got a solution! This solution is working under Ensim Pro with both RHEL and the Fedora cores. Upgrading Mailman to the latest version is the remaining challenge as it doesn't run as a cronjob as we've achieved in this solution. To get Mailmanctl to function properly, the only thoughts we've had are to possibly run multiple copies of Mailmanctl for each domain that would host lists, but we haven't tried that yet and are open to any suggestions or options we might have there. HTH as far as a possible baseline solution in Scott's case! David J. Duffner VP Operations NWC Corporation NWCWEB.com NWCWEB.com - Your Design Hosting Solution! Featuring Ensim Pro/Linux Servers, Hosted Accounts, Web Design and e-Commerce services NWC Corporation - Global e-Pay Solutions -- Message scanned by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This transmission intended for the specified destination and person. If this is not you, this e-mail must be deleted immediately. www.nwcweb.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
