Re: [MlMt] Follow-up question on using Spamsieve with Mailmate

[Joachim Tingvold]

On 31 Mar 2014, at 14:17, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:
You should use “Message ▸ Move to Junk” if you want to use the 
Junk mailbox. This automatically marks the message as $Junk as well. 
Moving out of the Junk mailbox marks it as $NotJunk instead.


Oh, lord! Thanks for the "tip"! I've done the 'Message -> Junk State -> 
Junk + Message -> Move to Junk' routine since the very beginning!


Haha :-D

--
Joachim
___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Re: [MlMt] Follow-up question on using Spamsieve with Mailmate

[Robert Anders]

Hi.

On 31 Mar 2014, at 22:42, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:
That is certainly not acceptable. I can see that you have allowed 
MailMate to send 6 crash reports with r4132 (and that's out of 8 
reported in total by ~130 users using r4132).


After taking a look at these crash reports I'm pretty sure that at 
least 5 of those 6 crashes are related to MailMate running out of 
so-called file descriptors. In other words, MailMate cannot handle 
such a large number of IDLE connections within system limits (and 
fails to handle it gracefully).


It's annoying, but MM is, imho, still superior to all other clients on 
Mac OS :)


(I'm also using TheBat! on Windows, i don't know what they do, but it 
handles _my_ (maybe somewhat weird) case extremly well. When i start 
TB!, all my accounts (15 atm) are checked within seconds while the 
program stays responsive (using 6 connections for every account))


regards,
Robert
___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Re: [MlMt] Follow-up question on using Spamsieve with Mailmate

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 31 Mar 2014, at 21:48, Scott A. McIntyre wrote:

As for MailMate, is it possible somewhere to see the rules created as 
text that can be edited directly?


Yes, if quitting MailMate then this text file can be edited (not that 
I'll recommend it):


~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Mailboxes.plist

Search for `rules` to see any existing rules in the file.

New to this mailing list, so, this may be well known -- sometimes the 
GUI is very slow to navigate when trying to build rules and if the 
underlying language is Sieve-like, it would be great to just tweak it 
by hand.


It's a property list where rule conditions are based on the internal 
query language of MailMate which is undocumented. It's not similar to 
Sieve and probably not very well suited for hand-editing.


--
Benny
___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Re: [MlMt] Follow-up question on using Spamsieve with Mailmate

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 31 Mar 2014, at 21:46, Robert Anders wrote:

I've heard of Sieve, but although I've been managing Internet mail 
systems since the very early 90s, I have yet to actually encounter a 
site that actually uses it.  At least, so far as I know -- maybe they 
use it and I don't know about it.


I do. Heavily. That's the reason i'd like MM to handle many* open 
(IDLE) connections well, but MM keeps crashing on me. Daily, no, 
hourly :(


That is certainly not acceptable. I can see that you have allowed 
MailMate to send 6 crash reports with r4132 (and that's out of 8 
reported in total by ~130 users using r4132).


After taking a look at these crash reports I'm pretty sure that at least 
5 of those 6 crashes are related to MailMate running out of so-called 
file descriptors. In other words, MailMate cannot handle such a large 
number of IDLE connections within system limits (and fails to handle it 
gracefully).



I really hope those crashes will be under control someday...


I'll note that I should look into making MailMate handle file descriptor 
limits more gracefully.


--
Benny
___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Re: [MlMt] Follow-up question on using Spamsieve with Mailmate

[Robert Anders]

Hi.


On 31 Mar 2014, at 21:30, Brad Knowles wrote:

On Mar 31, 2014, at 2:03 PM, Mike Brasch  
wrote:
There is a [Sieve-App](https://bitbucket.org/dergraf83/sieve/) for 
OSX. But there was no activity since 2010. I could not test it 
because FastMail does not support Managed Sieve.


I don't know if any of the services I use support Sieve, but I can 
check that out.  Hopefully this program will still run under 
Mavericks.


No, that didn't work for me at all. The only way i found to manage Sieve 
filter on OS X is the ManageSieve plugin for Thunderbird.



regards,
Robert
___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Re: [MlMt] Follow-up question on using Spamsieve with Mailmate

[Scott A. McIntyre]

Hi,



I've heard of Sieve, but although I've been managing Internet mail 
systems since the very early 90s, I have yet to actually encounter a 
site that actually uses it.  At least, so far as I know -- maybe they 
use it and I don't know about it.


It's actually been included with OS X for several "Server" versions - 
with access being provided by RoundCube, which supports it natively.  A 
number of ISPs that run their own webmail platform use RoundCube and 
Sieve.  Personally, I moved over to Sieve from procmail a few years ago. 
 Not quite as powerful as procmail, but most of what I needed to do was 
move mail into folders, rather than use formail or other hooks to get 
overly creative.


FastMail (www.fastmail.fm) uses Sieve for all of their message filtering 
as well - indeed, they provide a simple GUI for doing it, OR, you can 
simply write Sieve scripts yourself (which is what I do).


As for MailMate, is it possible somewhere to see the rules created as 
text that can be edited directly?  New to this mailing list, so, this 
may be well known -- sometimes the GUI is very slow to navigate when 
trying to build rules and if the underlying language is Sieve-like, it 
would be great to just tweak it by hand.


Thanks,

Scott

___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Re: [MlMt] Follow-up question on using Spamsieve with Mailmate

[Robert Anders]

Hi.

On 31 Mar 2014, at 21:28, Brad Knowles wrote:

On Mar 31, 2014, at 1:28 PM, Benny Kjær Nielsen 
 wrote:


There is no way to do that in MailMate. The only server-side 
filtering standard I know is Sieve, but I don't even know if a GUI 
for Sieve exists on Mac OS X (theoretically, I think it's possible to 
create such a GUI if the IMAP server supports Sieve).


I've heard of Sieve, but although I've been managing Internet mail 
systems since the very early 90s, I have yet to actually encounter a 
site that actually uses it.  At least, so far as I know -- maybe they 
use it and I don't know about it.


I do. Heavily. That's the reason i'd like MM to handle many* open (IDLE) 
connections well, but MM keeps crashing on me. Daily, no, hourly :(


There's a very good ManageSieve (that's the protocol to remotely handle 
Sieve rules) plugin for Thunderbird and the IMAP server Dovecot comes 
with Sieve and ManageSieve support almost out-of-the-box.


And since i'm using multiple MUAs on my mailboxes (Thunderbird, TheBat!, 
iOS, MM) server-side filtering is the only sane way to handle filtering.



I really hope those crashes will be under control someday...


regards,
Robert

*as in, maybe, a hundred?
___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Re: [MlMt] Follow-up question on using Spamsieve with Mailmate

[Brad Knowles]

On Mar 31, 2014, at 2:03 PM, Mike Brasch  wrote:

> There is a [Sieve-App](https://bitbucket.org/dergraf83/sieve/) for OSX. But 
> there was no activity since 2010. I could not test it because FastMail does 
> not support Managed Sieve.

I don't know if any of the services I use support Sieve, but I can check that 
out.  Hopefully this program will still run under Mavericks.

--
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Re: [MlMt] Follow-up question on using Spamsieve with Mailmate

[Brad Knowles]

On Mar 31, 2014, at 1:28 PM, Benny Kjær Nielsen  wrote:

> There is no way to do that in MailMate. The only server-side filtering 
> standard I know is Sieve, but I don't even know if a GUI for Sieve exists on 
> Mac OS X (theoretically, I think it's possible to create such a GUI if the 
> IMAP server supports Sieve).

I've heard of Sieve, but although I've been managing Internet mail systems 
since the very early 90s, I have yet to actually encounter a site that actually 
uses it.  At least, so far as I know -- maybe they use it and I don't know 
about it.

> Note that MailMate does support client side rules as part of the experimental 
> 2.0 features (enabled in the General preferences pane).

Right, that was one of the big reasons that I've already enabled the 2.0 
experimental features, and I'm really looking forward to 2.0 shipping.  
However, I have not yet had any chance to look at how they're implemented or 
how to set them up.

--
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Re: [MlMt] Follow-up question on using Spamsieve with Mailmate

[Mike Brasch]

On 31 Mar 2014, at 20:28, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:

The only server-side filtering standard I know is Sieve, but I don't 
even know if a GUI for Sieve exists on Mac OS X (theoretically, I 
think it's possible to create such a GUI if the IMAP server supports 
Sieve).


There is a [Sieve-App](https://bitbucket.org/dergraf83/sieve/) for OSX. 
But there was no activity since 2010. I could not test it because 
FastMail does not support Managed Sieve.


--
Gruß
Mike
___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Re: [MlMt] takes account offline after a while and then stops fetching email....

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 31 Mar 2014, at 19:25, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:

not sure when it started but lately mail mate is taking forever to 
fetch my mail.


Most of the times it takes a few restarts before it will get it.

i'm running Version 1.7.2 (4132)

Any ideas?


I'm currently dealing with various reports about Gmail for some users 
(past few weeks). Mailboxes entering an “unavailable” state, SSL 
handshakes failing, timeout errors, and something similar to what you 
describe. Some of my attempts to fix this might actually have introduced 
new problems, but I don't currently think any revisions are working 
better than r4132. It seems to mainly be a problem with Gmail, but a 
very large percentage of users are Gmail users which means this might be 
a coincidence.


You can search the ticket system and see if something matches your 
experiences, for example, [ticket 
685](http://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/685), but 
you are also welcome to create a new one. I'm primarily interested in 
logs from the Activity Viewer providing more information about what is 
happening.


--
Benny
___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Re: [MlMt] Follow-up question on using Spamsieve with Mailmate

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 31 Mar 2014, at 17:52, Brad Knowles wrote:

I have a number of accounts, and some of those systems might be able 
to do server-side rules if they were provided, but they don't give me 
any sort of way to create those rules.  If MailMate could give me a 
way to create the server-side rules and then upload them, I'd be fine 
going through the process of doing the translation.


There is no way to do that in MailMate. The only server-side filtering 
standard I know is Sieve, but I don't even know if a GUI for Sieve 
exists on Mac OS X (theoretically, I think it's possible to create such 
a GUI if the IMAP server supports Sieve).


But I can guarantee you that not all of the systems will have the 
ability to apply server-side rules, and "smart mailboxes" are -- at 
best -- only a partial solution to this problem.


Note that MailMate does support client side rules as part of the 
experimental 2.0 features (enabled in the General preferences pane).


--
Benny
___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

[MlMt] takes account offline after a while and then stops fetching email....

[Max Rydahl Andersen]

not sure when it started but lately mail mate is taking forever to fetch 
my mail.


Most of the times it takes a few restarts before it will get it.

i'm running Version 1.7.2 (4132)

Any ideas?

/max
http://about.me/maxandersen
___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Re: [MlMt] Follow-up question on using Spamsieve with Mailmate

[Brad Knowles]

On Mar 31, 2014, at 10:44 AM, Bill Cole 
 wrote:

> It was a hard choice to make, but I handled that (in my case a pile of old 
> Eudora rules that I'd half-translated into TBird...) by just declaring 
> client-side rule bankruptcy and rebuilding from scratch with a mix of 
> server-side delivery rules and a few MailMate smart mailboxes.

I'm glad there are others on the list who remember the "good ole days" with 
Eudora.  ;-)

> If you have a server-side filtering mechanism available to you and your rules 
> are mainly designed to sort mail into different piles as it arrives, that 
> really makes more sense than having a MUA do the work.

I have a number of accounts, and some of those systems might be able to do 
server-side rules if they were provided, but they don't give me any sort of way 
to create those rules.  If MailMate could give me a way to create the 
server-side rules and then upload them, I'd be fine going through the process 
of doing the translation.

But I can guarantee you that not all of the systems will have the ability to 
apply server-side rules, and "smart mailboxes" are -- at best -- only a partial 
solution to this problem.

It does really pain me to have to apply these rules on the client side, 
especially since this is one of the things that seems to go so horribly wrong 
with Mail.app [0], but I don't see an alternative at the moment.







[0] Mail.app frequently hangs on a given account on one server and stops any 
further processing of any rules for any accounts on any server.

--
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Re: [MlMt] Follow-up question on using Spamsieve with Mailmate

[Bill Cole]

On 30 Mar 2014, at 23:05, Brad Knowles wrote:

I have not yet quit using Mail.app, because I have yet to figure out 
how to take all my existing rules and bring them over to MailMate.


It was a hard choice to make, but I handled that (in my case a pile of 
old Eudora rules that I'd half-translated into TBird...) by just 
declaring client-side rule bankruptcy and rebuilding from scratch with a 
mix of server-side delivery rules and a few MailMate smart mailboxes. If 
you have a server-side filtering mechanism available to you and your 
rules are mainly designed to sort mail into different piles as it 
arrives, that really makes more sense than having a MUA do the work.

___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Re: [MlMt] Follow-up question on using Spamsieve with Mailmate

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 31 Mar 2014, at 5:05, Brad Knowles wrote:

I have not yet quit using Mail.app, because I have yet to figure out 
how to take all my existing rules and bring them over to MailMate.  
So, at the moment I've got both programs supposedly connecting with 
SpamSieve, and maybe that's my problem.


Yes, this is not good since it'll introduce a race condition. For 
example, you could easily end up with duplicates in your Junk mailbox.


But what I am seeing is that the junk status & score is not being 
updated on the mail messages in the respective junk mailboxes, unless 
I go in via Mail.app and manually feed them back to SpamSieve as 
confirmed spam messages.


3 things can happen when a message arrives:

1. Mail.app sees the message first and tells SpamSieve about it and 
moves it out of the Inbox before MailMate sees it. Only Mail.app knows 
the score. MailMate just sees the email in the Junk mailbox with the 
$Junk keyword.

2. The opposite of 1.
3. Both email clients see the message and tells SpamSieve about it and 
both email clients know the score. Depending on the timing they might 
both move it to Junk. Not quite sure what can happen, but probably 
several different things.


It should not be a problem to only use SpamSieve with one of the email 
clients unless you need both email clients to know the score.


--
Benny
___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate

Re: [MlMt] Follow-up question on using Spamsieve with Mailmate

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 30 Mar 2014, at 21:44, Sam Heldenbrand wrote:

Ok, that explains the "Move Out of Junk" functionality. But why does 
Spamsieve do nothing happen when I select a piece of mail in my inbox 
and I tag it as Junk? Shouldn't it automatically move that  piece of 
mail to its account's respective Junk folder? I'm having to do this 
manually right now, which seems wrong.


The “Junk State ▸ Junk” menu item only enables/disables the $Junk 
IMAP keywords (which is how email clients communicate about the state of 
a message). The same goes for “Not Junk” which is mapped to 
$NotJunk. Note that a third state for a message is that it is neither 
$Junk or $NotJunk -- this can be interpreted as an unknown junk status.


You should use “Message ▸ Move to Junk” if you want to use the 
Junk mailbox. This automatically marks the message as $Junk as well. 
Moving out of the Junk mailbox marks it as $NotJunk instead.


--
Benny
___
mailmate mailing list
mailmate@lists.freron.com
http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate