Re: [MlMt] newbie question about folders

[Eric Sharakan]

On 28 Jan 2020, at 13:25, Jo wrote:


On 28 Jan 2020, at 5:11, Eric Sharakan wrote:

Create an Inbox rule that moves emails to one specific, pre-existing 
IMAP mailbox. Then setup another "rule" attached to that mailbox with 
no actual rules, but the settings to creates virtual submailboxes 
based on the sender's name. This way, you get the sorting by sender's 
name and the moving of the messages out of your inbox.


Does that make sense?


It almost makes sense. The problem I’m having is wrapping my head 
around IMAP in general, I think. I have been almost exclusively using 
POP for so many years now.


So is a ‘pre-existing IMAP mailbox’ one that is for a specific 
email address?


I would say more accurately it's for a specific email account/provider.  
Like you, I have a half dozen email addresses, with a separate IMAP 
account for each one.  So think of a ‘pre-existing IMAP mailbox’ as 
a folder attached to one of these accounts.  You can use a pre-existing 
one, like 'Archive', which seems to be a common convention, or you can 
create your own.



Is it in the Sources area?


Yes, they are in the Sources area. MM makes special provisions for some, 
most notably "Archive", so they are also visible elsewhere in the 
sidebar.


There are so MANY mailboxes here it’s very confusing. Of course I 
have a half dozen email addresses in play, so it’s my own fault.


I know that pain!

-Eric
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Re: [MlMt] newbie question about folders

[Michael Nietzold]

I think it would be better if MM use the more user-friendly terms folder and 
smart-folder

Everytime I have to remember that a folder in MM is a Mailbox 

Should be a gerneral switch: rename all "mailbox" to "folder"



Von meinem iDingens gesendet...

> Am 28.01.2020 um 19:45 schrieb Robert Brenstein 
> :
> 
> 
> On 28 Jan 2020, at 19:25, Jo wrote:
> 
> On 28 Jan 2020, at 5:11, Eric Sharakan wrote:
> 
> Create an Inbox rule that moves emails to one specific, pre-existing IMAP 
> mailbox. Then setup another "rule" attached to that mailbox with no actual 
> rules, but the settings to creates virtual submailboxes based on the sender's 
> name. This way, you get the sorting by sender's name and the moving of the 
> messages out of your inbox.
> 
> Does that make sense?
> 
> It almost makes sense. The problem I’m having is wrapping my head around IMAP 
> in general, I think. I have been almost exclusively using POP for so many 
> years now.
> 
> So is a ‘pre-existing IMAP mailbox’ one that is for a specific email address? 
> Is it in the Sources area? There are so MANY mailboxes here it’s very 
> confusing. Of course I have a half dozen email addresses in play, so it’s my 
> own fault.
> 
> Jo
> 
> I used to use Eudora and POP for ever and ever, so when I switched to 
> MailMate and IMAP, it took some mental effort and head scratching to adjust. 
> My suggestion is that you embrace the IMAP paradigm rather than sticking to 
> POP style. It took me some physical effort to set all up but it was well 
> worth it and the effort was mostly only during the initial setup. In 
> practical terms, I suggest that you learn to use the smart mailboxes that 
> MailMate offers and do not or only minimally use additional real 
> folder/mailboxes in your IMAP account. A lot more power and flexibility to 
> gain over time. Focus more on creating an optimal mail workflow than 
> recreating your previous setup.
> 
> Robert
> 
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Re: [MlMt] newbie question about folders

[Robert Brenstein]

On 28 Jan 2020, at 19:25, Jo wrote:


On 28 Jan 2020, at 5:11, Eric Sharakan wrote:

Create an Inbox rule that moves emails to one specific, pre-existing 
IMAP mailbox. Then setup another "rule" attached to that mailbox with 
no actual rules, but the settings to creates virtual submailboxes 
based on the sender's name. This way, you get the sorting by sender's 
name and the moving of the messages out of your inbox.


Does that make sense?


It almost makes sense. The problem I’m having is wrapping my head 
around IMAP in general, I think. I have been almost exclusively using 
POP for so many years now.


So is a ‘pre-existing IMAP mailbox’ one that is for a specific 
email address? Is it in the Sources area? There are so MANY mailboxes 
here it’s very confusing. Of course I have a half dozen email 
addresses in play, so it’s my own fault.


Jo


I used to use Eudora and POP for ever and ever, so when I switched to 
MailMate and IMAP, it took some mental effort and head scratching to 
adjust. My suggestion is that you embrace the IMAP paradigm rather than 
sticking to POP style. It took me some physical effort to set all up but 
it was well worth it and the effort was mostly only during the initial 
setup. In practical terms, I suggest that you learn to use the smart 
mailboxes that MailMate offers and do not or only minimally use 
additional real folder/mailboxes in your IMAP account. A lot more power 
and flexibility to gain over time. Focus more on creating an optimal 
mail workflow than recreating your previous setup.


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Re: [MlMt] newbie question about folders

[Jo]

On 28 Jan 2020, at 5:11, Eric Sharakan wrote:

Create an Inbox rule that moves emails to one specific, pre-existing 
IMAP mailbox. Then setup another "rule" attached to that mailbox with 
no actual rules, but the settings to creates virtual submailboxes 
based on the sender's name. This way, you get the sorting by sender's 
name and the moving of the messages out of your inbox.


Does that make sense?


It almost makes sense. The problem I’m having is wrapping my head 
around IMAP in general, I think. I have been almost exclusively using 
POP for so many years now.


So is a ‘pre-existing IMAP mailbox’ one that is for a specific email 
address? Is it in the Sources area? There are so MANY mailboxes here 
it’s very confusing. Of course I have a half dozen email addresses in 
play, so it’s my own fault.


Jo
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Re: [MlMt] newbie question about folders

[Ian Petersen]

Glenn,

That’s cute, but frankly it’s overly technical and not very 
user-friendly.


I don’t see how using the correct term is not user friendly. Just 
because you happen to not have heard it before doesn’t make it wrong - 
I see MiB and kib as often as I see MB and kb nowadays. Remember 
Mailmate *is* aimed at the more technical user.



Go ahead and google “MiB” to see what pops up.


That’s what I did. The Wikipedia link was the first thing that popped 
up. Actually, I had to search for ‘Men in black’ to understand your 
reference … ;-)



Cheers
Ian
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Re: [MlMt] newbie question about folders

[Bill Cole]

On 27 Jan 2020, at 15:16, Jo wrote:


Hi,
Just switched over to MailMate from PowerMail. I’ve been hanging 
onto PM for a very long time, but it seems it’s not gonna work with 
the next OS upgrade, so here I am. There is a lot here that’s very 
similar and some new stuff that I like better, but I’m having 
trouble with sorting my incoming mail. 2 questions:


I was able to sort by who the mail was FROM, by creating groups in my 
address book in PM. Is there a way to do that? Rather than going thru 
and adding each individual to the filters within a smart mailbox?


What I have done in 2 cases is this:

0. Create a group in system address book ("Contacts",) add people to it, 
and make sure MM auto-completes from "Contacts"

(see Preferences->Composer.)

1. Create a new IMAP mailbox named for the group.

2. Start a new message, enter the group name in the "To" field (let it 
match against the group) and hit return to expand the group.


3. Save (don't send) the message. It will be in your "Drafts" mailbox.

4. Move the message to the mailbox created in (1) above.

5. Create a new Smart Mailbox with:
   Mailboxes: from All Messages
   Conditions: From->Address is in [group mailbox created in (1)] 
To->Address


After that, when you want to add a person's mail to that smart mailbox, 
you can either add them to the Contacts group and repeat steps 2-4 OR 
just drag any message that you've sent to that person into the group 
mailbox.



Also, what if I just want to save some emails by physically moving 
them into a folder? I’m guessing that’s something with 
‘archives’ but I can’t seem to figure out how to make this 
happen. What I’d like it not to accidentally delete them when I am 
in the basic ‘inbox’ somewhere. In PM, if I put something in a 
folder, that’s the only place it was. Here it seems to be a 
‘copy.’ OK, I know it’s not a copy, more like an alias, I guess? 
But whatever, I don’t want to see it elsewhere, because I might 
accidentally hit delete. Does that make sense?


As others have said, MM is an IMAP-only mail client. It keeps a complete 
copy of everything in your IMAP account(s) ("Sources" in MM-jargon) but 
it treats that cache of messages as a replica of what is on the IMAP 
server(s). MM supports the concept of each IMAP account having an 
"Archive" mailbox and if you're reading at a message, you can move it to 
that IMAP mailbox with the "Archive" button in the toolbar or the 
Messages->Move To Archive menu command. If those commands are greyed 
out, it is because MM did not see any IMAP mailbox in the current source 
account with a name like "Archive" when it was setting up the source 
account. If you already have an IMAP mailbox you want to use as an 
archive, you can select it and wither use the contextual menu 
(right-click or control-click) "Mailbox Type" selection menu or the 
menubar Mailbox->Mailbox Type selection menu. To create a new IMAP 
mailbox, you'll find that function in the Mailbox menu or the contextual 
menu if you have a source account or existing IMAP mailbox selected in 
the Sources section of the mailbox list.


--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Not Currently Available For Hire
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Re: [MlMt] newbie question about folders

[Glenn Parker]

That’s cute, but frankly it’s overly technical and not very 
user-friendly. Go ahead and google “MiB” to see what pops up.


I understand the rationale, but the practical reality is that most 
people will just wonder why “MB” is mis-spelled.


Is there anything in this world that the standards committees cannot 
make worse? :)


On 28 Jan 2020, at 11:41, Ian Petersen wrote:


Glenn,

BTW, another odd bit is the use of “MiB” and “KiB”. In 
English, “MiB” is most likely read as “Men In Black” (the 
movie). “Megabyte” is just “MB” (there’s not even an 
“i” in the word), and “Kilobyte” is just “KB”.



Actually these are the correct ISO standard names for 1024 bytes or 
1024 kibibytes.


See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mebibyte

Cheers
Ian
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Re: [MlMt] newbie question about folders

[Ken Pope]

On 27 Jan 2020, at 15:16, Jo wrote:

Just switched over to MailMate from PowerMail. I’ve been hanging 
onto PM for a very long time, but it seems it’s not gonna work with 
the next OS upgrade, so here I am.




> Also, what if I just want to save some emails by physically moving 
them into a folder? I’m guessing that’s something with 
‘archives’ but I can’t seem to figure out how to make this 
happen. What I’d like it not to accidentally delete them when I am 
in the basic ‘inbox’ somewhere. In PM, if I put something in a 
folder, that’s the only place it was. Here it seems to be a 
‘copy.’ OK, I know it’s not a copy, more like an alias, I guess? 
But whatever, I don’t want to see it elsewhere, because I might 
accidentally hit delete. Does that make sense?


I’m a fellow PowerMail-user-since-forever who recently moved to 
MailMate when PM no longer worked w/ my OS upgrade.  Here are the steps 
I take to create that kind of folder: First, in the vertical list 
labeled “Mailboxes” along the left margin of MailMate, I scroll down 
to the label “Sources.” Immediately under “Sources” is my email 
address, which I highlight. Then I click on the “gear” at the 
bottom, and the menu it shows includes “New IMAP Mailbox in [my email 
address]”.


I click that option which (unsurprisingly) creates a new IMAP Mailbox 
under my email address above.  I type in a name for that mailbox.  Then 
I can drag any emails from my inbox into that mailbox.  The message no 
longer appears in my inbox—it appears only in that new IMAP mailbox.  
I’ve created quite a few of those IMAP mailboxes so I can keep 
important messages, find them easily, and not worry about accidentally 
erasing them.


Hope that helps. Am guessing those who’ve used MM longer will be able 
to tell you simpler, quicker, or better ways to do what you want to do.


Ken
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Re: [MlMt] newbie question about folders

[Ian Petersen]

Glenn,

BTW, another odd bit is the use of “MiB” and “KiB”. In 
English, “MiB” is most likely read as “Men In Black” (the 
movie). “Megabyte” is just “MB” (there’s not even an “i” 
in the word), and “Kilobyte” is just “KB”.



Actually these are the correct ISO standard names for 1024 bytes or 1024 
kibibytes.


See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mebibyte

Cheers
Ian
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Re: [MlMt] newbie question about folders

[Glenn Parker]

Jo,

I *think* I understand what you’re trying to accomplish, because it 
sounds like something I wanted when I first started using MailMate 
(spoiler: I asked Benny and he said it wasn’t available).


First, a little nomenclature for the new user.  What MailMate calls the 
“Account” or “Source” is what I normally call a “mailbox”, 
that is to say the folder hierarchically and messages accessed via a 
particular account on an IMAP server. To me, that whole thing is the 
mailbox. What MailMate calls a “IMAP Mailbox” is what I would 
normally call a “folder”. The core standard for IMAP, [RFC 
3501](https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3501), uses this terminology for 
mailboxes and folders, as does every other IMAP client I have used.


Now, I understand that internationalization can be a tricky business, so 
I’m prepared to look past some odd bits, but this is an early 
stumbling block in the user experience. It took me a couple of days to 
understand when I first started using MailMate. I was quite wary of 
creating a new “IMAP Mailbox” because I didn’t want to 
accidentally create a whole new account. That left me fumbling around 
looking for how to create “folders” when it was right there in front 
of me.


BTW, another odd bit is the use of “MiB” and “KiB”. In English, 
“MiB” is most likely read as “Men In Black” (the movie). 
“Megabyte” is just “MB” (there’s not even an “i” in the 
word), and “Kilobyte” is just “KB”.


Anyway… you can create a new IMAP Mailbox using the menu command or by 
right-clicking on an existing Mailbox (substitute “folder” for 
“Mailbox” in your head here). The Mailbox can be a child of the 
INBOX, or a sibling, depending on the selected object, e.g., Account, 
INBOX, or another Mailbox.


You can then add rules to your INBOX folder that will automatically (or 
manually) move incoming messages to your new Mailbox as they arrive. You 
can add lots of rules for specific email senders, or for email from a 
particular domain, or many other criteria. You can even make a rule that 
recognizes email addresses found in an existing Mailbox.


What you *cannot* do is create a rule that indirectly references a group 
of email addresses in your system address book. Right now, MailMate 
seems to have fairly limited interaction with the address book. It 
doesn’t have its own internal address book (which is a good thing 
IMHO), but I think the only time the address book is accessed is when 
addressing new messages. This is a filtering option that other mail 
clients (with internal address books) do support, so I understand why 
the question pops up.


There are probably some workarounds involving pre-filtering that could 
be done here, but MailMate is generally powerful (and complicated) 
enough for me.


The cruder workaround is to create a rule with all the relevant email 
addresses, and to then maintain that rule as the list of email addresses 
evolves.


Daydream mode: it might be interesting if we could treat address book 
groups like Mailboxes, so that the email addresses in a group could be 
accessed in a rule.


On 28 Jan 2020, at 3:32, Jo wrote:


On 27 Jan 2020, at 23:47, Charlie Clark wrote:

If you want to move anything you'll need to set up rules. It's a pity 
this isn't as easy to do as setting up smart mailboxes, which is 
based on a search (or maybe it is and I just haven't figured it 
out!), but you can use an existing e-mail to get some help setting up 
the criteria for an action.


I can set up rules, but i can’t seem to create a mailbox/folder. Not 
a new smart mailbox, but just a folder. Where do I do that at?



Jo
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Re: [MlMt] newbie question about folders

[Verdon Vaillancourt]

>> I can set up rules, but i can’t seem to create a mailbox/folder. Not a new 
>> smart mailbox, but just a folder. Where do I do that at?

I’m not at my desktop, but can’t you right-click on the location where you want 
the mailbox in the ‘Sources’ list and choose create mailbox (or something to 
that effect). The trick is you need to be in Sources.

V

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[MlMt] OpenDirectory & MailMate

[Marc ARC]

Hello,

Does anybody have experience with using MailMate in an OpenDirectory 
environment ?


Thanks in advance,


Marc
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Re: [MlMt] newbie question about folders

[Eric Sharakan]

On 27 Jan 2020, at 21:16, Jo wrote:


Hi,
Just switched over to MailMate from PowerMail. I’ve been hanging 
onto PM for a very long time, but it seems it’s not gonna work with 
the next OS upgrade, so here I am. There is a lot here that’s very 
similar and some new stuff that I like better, but I’m having 
trouble with sorting my incoming mail. 2 questions:


I was able to sort by who the mail was FROM, by creating groups in my 
address book in PM. Is there a way to do that? Rather than going thru 
and adding each individual to the filters within a smart mailbox?


I'm not familiar with PM, but MM doesn't have its own address book.  The 
MacOS contacts App has the notion of groups, but I'm not sure that's 
visible to MM.


Also, what if I just want to save some emails by physically moving 
them into a folder? I’m guessing that’s something with 
‘archives’ but I can’t seem to figure out how to make this 
happen.


You can create a rule with an action of "Move to Mailbox", though it 
apparently has to be a pre-existing IMAP mailbox/folder.


What I’d like it not to accidentally delete them when I am in the 
basic ‘inbox’ somewhere. In PM, if I put something in a folder, 
that’s the only place it was. Here it seems to be a ‘copy.’ OK, 
I know it’s not a copy, more like an alias, I guess? But whatever, I 
don’t want to see it elsewhere, because I might accidentally hit 
delete. Does that make sense?


Yes it does now, so my previous suggestion of looking at the options 
under the "Submailboxes" tab won't work for you.  It seems like you want 
the logic of the "Submailboxes" tab that can automatically create a 
sub-mailbox based on the name of the each sender, but to have it create 
real IMAP folders to physically move the mail to, rather than virtual 
submailboxes.  I don't see any way to do that directly, but hw about 
this:


Create an Inbox rule that moves emails to one specific, pre-existing 
IMAP mailbox.  Then setup another "rule" attached to that mailbox with 
no actual rules, but the settings to creates virtual submailboxes based 
on the sender's name.  This way, you get the sorting by sender's name 
and the moving of the messages out of your inbox.


Does that make sense?

-Eric



TIA


Jo
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Re: [MlMt] newbie question about folders

[Eric Sharakan]

On 28 Jan 2020, at 3:32, Jo wrote:


On 27 Jan 2020, at 23:47, Charlie Clark wrote:

If you want to move anything you'll need to set up rules. It's a pity 
this isn't as easy to do as setting up smart mailboxes, which is 
based on a search (or maybe it is and I just haven't figured it 
out!), but you can use an existing e-mail to get some help setting up 
the criteria for an action.


I can set up rules, but i can’t seem to create a mailbox/folder. Not 
a new smart mailbox, but just a folder. Where do I do that at?


I do not see any way to create an ordinary IMAP folder via a rule's 
actions; perhaps Benny will reply with a hack to do that.  Also, not 
sure this will work for you, but there are many options for creating and 
naming "virtual" mailbox folders in the "Submailboxes" tab.


HTH.

-Eric
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Re: [MlMt] newbie question about folders

[Fredrik Jonsson]

Jo 2020-01-28 9:32 wrote:

I can set up rules, but i can’t seem to create a mailbox/folder. Not 
a new smart mailbox, but just a folder. Where do I do that at?


MailMate is a pure IMAP client, it does not have anything like "On my 
Mac" folders.


Look in the "Sources" section, in the bottom of the left sidebar. There 
you can create new IMAP folders in your IMAP accounts with the "New IMAP 
Mailbox" command.


But my suggestion is to skip "real" folders and take maximum advantage 
of MailMate and its smart folders.


With MailMate I use smart folders extensively and just archive all mails 
in one “Archive” mailbox instead.


I have set up my own key bindings so “i” will select the inbox, 
“a” will archive mail, “d” will delete them, “f” flag them 
and “r” for making a reply. This takes care of most of my mail 
interaction.


Here you find my key bindings: 



I have smart folders for people/projects/organisations etc. Since smart 
folders are just searches the same e-mail can show up in multiple 
places. No more worrying  if a particular e-mail should go to the 
personal folder or project x folder.


Fredrik
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Re: [MlMt] newbie question about folders

[Jo]

On 27 Jan 2020, at 23:47, Charlie Clark wrote:

If you want to move anything you'll need to set up rules. It's a pity 
this isn't as easy to do as setting up smart mailboxes, which is based 
on a search (or maybe it is and I just haven't figured it out!), but 
you can use an existing e-mail to get some help setting up the 
criteria for an action.


I can set up rules, but i can’t seem to create a mailbox/folder. Not a 
new smart mailbox, but just a folder. Where do I do that at?



Jo
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