Re: [MlMt] "X-Envelope-to" - should be more visble
On 2024-03-06 at 14:54:26 UTC-0500 (Wed, 06 Mar 2024 20:54:26 +0100) Michael Nietzold is rumored to have said: But it would be nice to have some settings to include some more headers to be indexed. Maybe somehow with defaults write The issue is not indexing. MM indexes all headers, no matter how rare. That's why you can search for any header. It is entirely a display issue. It was once possible to modify the header layout of the message view by overriding it with a plist somewhere in Application Support/MailMate/, but I believe Benny broke that at some point. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] "X-Envelope-to" - should be more visble
On 6 Mar 2024, at 13:54, Michael Nietzold wrote: There are 61k are in a Submailbox where I have condition: X-Envelope-To -> exists = araound 85% I'm guessing you might have been associated with a mail server that adds this header to your mail. In my experience it's rare: I have `X-Envelope-To` in only 174 out of 128,636 messages (0.13%). Q___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] "X-Envelope-to" - should be more visble
Interesting in my case are 61k of 71k have this header (85%) of my mails I tried your advice with an smart mailbox to count the amount of `x-envelope-to` :) On 6 Mar 2024, at 18:22, John Doherty wrote: I don't know if this helps, or whether you have already done it, but you can create a smart mailbox that selects messages in which the "X-Envelope-To" header exists (or does or doesn't match or include certain strings, etc.). When you're creating the Conditions for the smart mailbox, you have to choose "Other..." at the bottom of the popup menu and can then select "X-Envelope-To." I just did it out of curiosity and found that I have only 28 messages among ~134,000 that include this header, 19 from one specific mailing list and nine from one specific domain. So it seems pretty uncommon, at least in my mail. On Wed 2024-03-06 02:21 AM MST -0700, wrote: I have some spam mails which uses the `X-Envelope-to:` header Some of them are don't have a `to:` header If I just search in the mail mate search box it not find this emails. I need explicit use `X-Envelope-to: myn...@mydomain.com` to find it. What can I do that the normal search also include the `X-Envelope-to:` header? I would also like to see this header as a line in the mail view. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] "X-Envelope-to" - should be more visble
Out of 71k in "All Messages" There are 61k are in a Submailbox where I have condition: `X-Envelope-To` -> `exists` = araound 85% It seems some Mailer "destruct" many recipients or mailing lists from the `to` into the "real" e-mail where it is delivered to. I just found it because I inspected a Mail where I did not see an `to` header. I don't think you can get the simple Search box to search non-standard headers. You can make it search all text and "common" headers, but this one isn't common. But it would be nice to have some settings to include some more headers to be indexed. Maybe somehow with `defaults write` Some of them are don't have a to: header Technically not wrong if at one time it had a Bcc. But the problem: with the normal search I can not find them in the mails - because the only place where it can be found a match with an eMail is in the `x-envelope-to` If you pull down the menu with header names, you will see "Other..." at the very end. I also found it when I put this in the search box: `X-Envelope-to: myn...@mydomain.com` I would also like to see this header as a line in the mail view. Not a lot of people would find that useful, given the general rarity of that specific header... If it is so rare, then nobody get hurt when it is included. When the header is not available then the line does not show up (like the missing line when there is no `to:` header) For me it would be also ok to add this setting with a `defaults write` to my mail mate setup However, what would be great is if there was a better way to select which headers are in the standard displayed set. I agree, a generic setting would be nice to define which additional headers should be shown in the message view. On 6 Mar 2024, at 17:56, Bill Cole wrote: On 2024-03-06 at 04:21:38 UTC-0500 (Wed, 06 Mar 2024 10:21:38 +0100) Michael Nietzold is rumored to have said: I have some spam mails which uses the `X-Envelope-to:` header Can you quantify that? I see none in a corpus of a half-million messages going back to the 90's. But which headers are in your mail is an issue very much dependent on who your mailbox provider is. The leading "X-" tells you that this is a header that someone thought was nice and invented on their own, and never changed to remove the X. You cannot rely on its presence or consistency unless you know who has decided to put that on some mail. Simply "Envelope-to" also exists on a tiny number of messages in the wild, and "Original-Recipient" is actually standardized (https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3798.html#section-2.3.) but is not widespread. Rather more widely implemented is the "X-Original-To" header which is implemented in multiple MTA/MDAs. My guess is that the "X-Envelope-to" would logically hold the same meaning as those, but who really knows. It only makes sense to add such a header on final delivery or when a MTA modifies a SMTP envelope recipient. Some of them are don't have a `to:` header Technically not wrong if at one time it had a Bcc. If I just search in the mail mate search box it not find this emails. I need explicit use `X-Envelope-to: myn...@mydomain.com` to find it. MailMate can search on any header, even those that only exist in one message, through the full search bar that you get to with the Search button. If you pull down the menu with header names, you will see "Other..." at the very end. Select that and you will get a full picker that allows you to select any header and optionally include them in the pull-down menu. What can I do that the normal search also include the `X-Envelope-to:` header? I don't think you can get the simple Search box to search non-standard headers. You can make it search all text and "common" headers, but this one isn't common. I would also like to see this header as a line in the mail view. Not a lot of people would find that useful, given the general rarity of that specific header... However, what would be great is if there was a better way to select which headers are in the standard displayed set. E.g. I almost always want to know what the Reply-To header is if it exists and there are mailing lists I am on which put the list address in the From header, moving the real From into some other header (often Reply-To) to allow them to add their own DKIM+DMARC authentication. I would like to see MM have a simple way to pick additional headers to show, because which ones are useful can be very site-specific and user-specific. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] "X-Envelope-to" - should be more visble
I don't know if this helps, or whether you have already done it, but you can create a smart mailbox that selects messages in which the "X-Envelope-To" header exists (or does or doesn't match or include certain strings, etc.). When you're creating the Conditions for the smart mailbox, you have to choose "Other..." at the bottom of the popup menu and can then select "X-Envelope-To." I just did it out of curiosity and found that I have only 28 messages among ~134,000 that include this header, 19 from one specific mailing list and nine from one specific domain. So it seems pretty uncommon, at least in my mail. On Wed 2024-03-06 02:21 AM MST -0700, wrote: I have some spam mails which uses the `X-Envelope-to:` header Some of them are don't have a `to:` header If I just search in the mail mate search box it not find this emails. I need explicit use `X-Envelope-to: myn...@mydomain.com` to find it. What can I do that the normal search also include the `X-Envelope-to:` header? I would also like to see this header as a line in the mail view. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] "X-Envelope-to" - should be more visble
On 2024-03-06 at 04:21:38 UTC-0500 (Wed, 06 Mar 2024 10:21:38 +0100) Michael Nietzold is rumored to have said: I have some spam mails which uses the `X-Envelope-to:` header Can you quantify that? I see none in a corpus of a half-million messages going back to the 90's. But which headers are in your mail is an issue very much dependent on who your mailbox provider is. The leading "X-" tells you that this is a header that someone thought was nice and invented on their own, and never changed to remove the X. You cannot rely on its presence or consistency unless you know who has decided to put that on some mail. Simply "Envelope-to" also exists on a tiny number of messages in the wild, and "Original-Recipient" is actually standardized (https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3798.html#section-2.3.) but is not widespread. Rather more widely implemented is the "X-Original-To" header which is implemented in multiple MTA/MDAs. My guess is that the "X-Envelope-to" would logically hold the same meaning as those, but who really knows. It only makes sense to add such a header on final delivery or when a MTA modifies a SMTP envelope recipient. Some of them are don't have a `to:` header Technically not wrong if at one time it had a Bcc. If I just search in the mail mate search box it not find this emails. I need explicit use `X-Envelope-to: myn...@mydomain.com` to find it. MailMate can search on any header, even those that only exist in one message, through the full search bar that you get to with the Search button. If you pull down the menu with header names, you will see "Other..." at the very end. Select that and you will get a full picker that allows you to select any header and optionally include them in the pull-down menu. What can I do that the normal search also include the `X-Envelope-to:` header? I don't think you can get the simple Search box to search non-standard headers. You can make it search all text and "common" headers, but this one isn't common. I would also like to see this header as a line in the mail view. Not a lot of people would find that useful, given the general rarity of that specific header... However, what would be great is if there was a better way to select which headers are in the standard displayed set. E.g. I almost always want to know what the Reply-To header is if it exists and there are mailing lists I am on which put the list address in the From header, moving the real From into some other header (often Reply-To) to allow them to add their own DKIM+DMARC authentication. I would like to see MM have a simple way to pick additional headers to show, because which ones are useful can be very site-specific and user-specific. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] "X-Envelope-to" - should be more visble
I have some spam mails which uses the `X-Envelope-to:` header Some of them are don't have a `to:` header If I just search in the mail mate search box it not find this emails. I need explicit use `X-Envelope-to: myn...@mydomain.com` to find it. What can I do that the normal search also include the `X-Envelope-to:` header? I would also like to see this header as a line in the mail view. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
