Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 13 Jan 2017, at 17:19, Mike Petonic wrote:

I don't have any experience with Github's Wiki, but I like that I 
maintain some control while being able to allow anyone to edit. I'll 
look into this.


I've now enabled it: https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual/wiki

If I've configured it correctly then it should be editable by anyone 
with a GitHub account (which is free).


I've added a short introductory message from me and then we'll see what 
happens :)


Since I took a long time to reply to this email then I'll leave your 
comments for easy reference if anyone wonders why I enabled the Wiki:


That's encouraging.  We've got some very smart people using MailMate 
(it's almost a self-qualifying feature :-) and loads of them want to 
help.


The hopeful outcome is:

* we free up your time to focus what you're good at
* cultivate collaboration across aforementioned smart user-base
* provide a reference repository to all of us ADHD users who forgot 
where that obscure feature is (this is me)


For a non-profit project that I'm helping with, I set up a DokuWiki 
for the first time.  I don't know GitHub's wiki, but I suspect that 
it's not going to be rocket-science for you, nor for MM users.


And, I think, given that you own the repo, you'll maintain full 
control unless you eventually come to trust the folks who volunteer 
(ahem, Annamarie Pluhar, your volunteering has not gone unnoticed :-). 
 This will free up even more of your time and again, provide for a lot 
of collaboration.


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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Mike Petonic]

On 13 Jan 2017, at 6:16, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 12 Jan 2017, at 17:50, Mike Petonic wrote:

Perhaps we could use Github's Wiki feature of the 
https://github.com/mailmate/ site.  It doesn't appear that it's 
enabled, or rather, it is enabled but it just redirects us to the 
markdown manual (https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual) again.


I don't have any experience with Github's Wiki, but I like that I 
maintain some control while being able to allow anyone to edit. I'll 
look into this.


That's encouraging.  We've got some very smart people using MailMate 
(it's almost a self-qualifying feature :-) and loads of them want to 
help.


The hopeful outcome is:

* we free up your time to focus what you're good at
* cultivate collaboration across aforementioned smart user-base
* provide a reference repository to all of us ADHD users who forgot 
where that obscure feature is (this is me)


For a non-profit project that I'm helping with, I set up a DokuWiki for 
the first time.  I don't know GitHub's wiki, but I suspect that it's not 
going to be rocket-science for you, nor for MM users.


And, I think, given that you own the repo, you'll maintain full control 
unless you eventually come to trust the folks who volunteer (ahem, 
Annamarie Pluhar, your volunteering has not gone unnoticed :-).  This 
will free up even more of your time and again, provide for a lot of 
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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 12 Jan 2017, at 17:50, Mike Petonic wrote:

Perhaps we could use Github's Wiki feature of the 
https://github.com/mailmate/ site.  It doesn't appear that it's 
enabled, or rather, it is enabled but it just redirects us to the 
markdown manual (https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual) again.


I don't have any experience with Github's Wiki, but I like that I 
maintain some control while being able to allow anyone to edit. I'll 
look into this.


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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 12 Jan 2017, at 3:25, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


On 11 Jan 2017, at 11:28, Ted Byfield wrote:

A Mailmate tips/tricks resource would very useful to fill the gap 
between the manual (which should be very minimal) and this ~support 
list (which is great but a noisy way to build practical knowledge).


This isn't intended as a criticism of MM at all — on the contrary, 
I'm just thinking about a resource that could help it to grow.


Why can’t the manual have this as part of it?

(BTW, I’ve got a months-old PR on the manual: 
https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual .)


Oops :-) I think my initial thought was that it was a bit too minor to 
be in the introduction. I've accepted it now and then I might move it 
later on :)


Sorry about the delay.

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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 11 Jan 2017, at 17:42, Peter Stevens wrote:

Some of these issues might better be handled through better usability. 
Why not just have some buttons to insert markdown templates? So 
documentation is isn’t necessary the answer (even if it can be a 
quick fix for deeper problems).


Just for the record, I agree with this. I recently added that some 
Markdown is handled via the standard keys, e.g., TextEdit: ⌘B, ⌘I, 
⌘K. The last one is for creating links. At its best: Put a URL on the 
pasteboard, select a word, and hit ⌘K. Yeah, also not documented in 
the manual.


(Toolbar buttons are a bit harder, because it'll involve graphics I 
don't have.)


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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 11 Jan 2017, at 1:41, Verdon Vaillancourt wrote:

That’s funny… mine is configured the other way around… has been 
so long I don’t know if I did that, or if it used to be default.


Searching is the default behavior.

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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Annamarie]

So glad I saw this thread. (Sometimes I read and sometimes I simply 
delete)


One of my hats is "instructional designer." I'm well aware of the time 
it might take to put together a good tips and tricks manual. I'd love to 
see one. As a non-coder a wiki seems more approachable to me than github 
- but maybe I'm just not conversant enough with github. I'd be happy to 
offer my editing/writing to what gets put there.


My two cents.

Annamarie Pluhar
802-451-1941
802-579-5975 (iPhone - not good when I'm at my desk.)

On 12 Jan 2017, at 14:26, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


On 12 Jan 2017, at 13:46, Mike Petonic wrote:

No objection from me. I just think that a markdown manual 
collaborated with on GitHub is less collaborative (i.e., someone has 
to do the integrations and approve them) as compared to a Wiki, where 
they just have to be monitored.  I doubt that Benny has that much 
available time to do the integrations, and I think we'd all rather 
that Benny focus on continuing to make MM the best damned MUA for 
macOS. :-)


On the other hand, if we have volunteers to do the editing from 
submissions, then my concern would go away, and a manual format is 
oftentimes that best format for certain people because of the 
linearity (it's not my desired format, however).


I’m indifferent to the method, but since github already points the 
wiki to the manual, something would have to change.


John
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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 12 Jan 2017, at 13:46, Mike Petonic wrote:

No objection from me. I just think that a markdown manual collaborated 
with on GitHub is less collaborative (i.e., someone has to do the 
integrations and approve them) as compared to a Wiki, where they just 
have to be monitored.  I doubt that Benny has that much available time 
to do the integrations, and I think we'd all rather that Benny focus 
on continuing to make MM the best damned MUA for macOS. :-)


On the other hand, if we have volunteers to do the editing from 
submissions, then my concern would go away, and a manual format is 
oftentimes that best format for certain people because of the 
linearity (it's not my desired format, however).


I’m indifferent to the method, but since github already points the 
wiki to the manual, something would have to change.


John
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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Mike Petonic]

On 12 Jan 2017, at 8:59, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

On 12 Jan 2017, at 11:50, Mike Petonic wrote:

Perhaps we could use Github's Wiki feature of the 
https://github.com/mailmate/ site.  It doesn't appear that it's 
enabled, or rather, it is enabled but it just redirects us to the 
markdown manual (https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual) again.


We could agree to limit the scope to a best-practices wiki, and thus 
wouldn't have a lot of scope creep.


Not a bad idea, but what’s the objection to putting such a section 
into the manual on github?


No objection from me. I just think that a markdown manual collaborated 
with on GitHub is less collaborative (i.e., someone has to do the 
integrations and approve them) as compared to a Wiki, where they just 
have to be monitored.  I doubt that Benny has that much available time 
to do the integrations, and I think we'd all rather that Benny focus on 
continuing to make MM the best damned MUA for macOS. :-)


On the other hand, if we have volunteers to do the editing from 
submissions, then my concern would go away, and a manual format is 
oftentimes that best format for certain people because of the linearity 
(it's not my desired format, however).


That's my $0.02.
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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Ted Byfield]

That seems like an excellent approach from a user perspective (or at 
least this one's).


Cheers,
T

On 12 Jan 2017, at 11:59, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


On 12 Jan 2017, at 11:50, Mike Petonic wrote:

Perhaps we could use Github's Wiki feature of the 
https://github.com/mailmate/ site.  It doesn't appear that it's 
enabled, or rather, it is enabled but it just redirects us to the 
markdown manual (https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual) again.


We could agree to limit the scope to a best-practices wiki, and thus 
wouldn't have a lot of scope creep.


Not a bad idea, but what’s the objection to putting such a section 
into the manual on github?

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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 12 Jan 2017, at 11:50, Mike Petonic wrote:

Perhaps we could use Github's Wiki feature of the 
https://github.com/mailmate/ site.  It doesn't appear that it's 
enabled, or rather, it is enabled but it just redirects us to the 
markdown manual (https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual) again.


We could agree to limit the scope to a best-practices wiki, and thus 
wouldn't have a lot of scope creep.


Not a bad idea, but what’s the objection to putting such a section 
into the manual on github?


John
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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Mike Petonic]

I agree about having a best-practices forum, of some sort, beyond the 
email list.


We've got some very good power users and when they contribute things, 
that's great, but using a mailing list or even mailing list archives is 
like looking through a toilet-paper roll to drive.  Very tunnel-vision 
like.


I like the idea of a subreddit, but I'd guess that probably less than 
50% of the users use reddit.


Perhaps we could use Github's Wiki feature of the 
https://github.com/mailmate/ site.  It doesn't appear that it's enabled, 
or rather, it is enabled but it just redirects us to the markdown manual 
(https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual) again.


We could agree to limit the scope to a best-practices wiki, and thus 
wouldn't have a lot of scope creep.



On 11 Jan 2017, at 18:56, Ted Byfield wrote:

It could be, but I assume that Benny has his hands full (and would 
like time off). Resources like that can involve multiple layers of 
work (writing, updating with releases, etc); and sometimes they're 
best done by users — for example, as a subreddit.


Cheers,
T

On 11 Jan 2017, at 21:25, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


On 11 Jan 2017, at 11:28, Ted Byfield wrote:

A Mailmate tips/tricks resource would very useful to fill the gap 
between the manual (which should be very minimal) and this ~support 
list (which is great but a noisy way to build practical knowledge).


This isn't intended as a criticism of MM at all — on the contrary, 
I'm just thinking about a resource that could help it to grow.


Why can’t the manual have this as part of it?

(BTW, I’ve got a months-old PR on the manual: 
https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual .)

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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Sam Hathaway]

 Any sufficiently-motivated user could start an unofficial MailMate "tips n 
tricks" wiki. There are a variety of free wiki farms out there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_hosting_services

If I set one up, do you suppose there'd be interest? Would Benny be willing to 
link to it?
-sam

On January 11, 2017 9:56:28 PM EST, Ted Byfield  wrote:
>It could be, but I assume that Benny has his hands full (and would like
>
>time off). Resources like that can involve multiple layers of work 
>(writing, updating with releases, etc); and sometimes they're best done
>
>by users — for example, as a subreddit.
>
>Cheers,
>T
>
>On 11 Jan 2017, at 21:25, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:
>
>> On 11 Jan 2017, at 11:28, Ted Byfield wrote:
>>
>>> A Mailmate tips/tricks resource would very useful to fill the gap 
>>> between the manual (which should be very minimal) and this ~support 
>>> list (which is great but a noisy way to build practical knowledge).
>>>
>>> This isn't intended as a criticism of MM at all — on the contrary, 
>>> I'm just thinking about a resource that could help it to grow.
>>
>> Why can’t the manual have this as part of it?
>>
>> (BTW, I’ve got a months-old PR on the manual: 
>> https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual .)
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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Ted Byfield]

It could be, but I assume that Benny has his hands full (and would like 
time off). Resources like that can involve multiple layers of work 
(writing, updating with releases, etc); and sometimes they're best done 
by users — for example, as a subreddit.


Cheers,
T

On 11 Jan 2017, at 21:25, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


On 11 Jan 2017, at 11:28, Ted Byfield wrote:

A Mailmate tips/tricks resource would very useful to fill the gap 
between the manual (which should be very minimal) and this ~support 
list (which is great but a noisy way to build practical knowledge).


This isn't intended as a criticism of MM at all — on the contrary, 
I'm just thinking about a resource that could help it to grow.


Why can’t the manual have this as part of it?

(BTW, I’ve got a months-old PR on the manual: 
https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual .)

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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 11 Jan 2017, at 11:28, Ted Byfield wrote:

A Mailmate tips/tricks resource would very useful to fill the gap 
between the manual (which should be very minimal) and this ~support 
list (which is great but a noisy way to build practical knowledge).


This isn't intended as a criticism of MM at all — on the contrary, 
I'm just thinking about a resource that could help it to grow.


Why can’t the manual have this as part of it?

(BTW, I’ve got a months-old PR on the manual: 
https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual .)


John
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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Peter Stevens]

A Mailmate tips/tricks resource would very useful to fill the gap 
between the manual (which should be very minimal) and this ~support 
list (which is great but a noisy way to build practical knowledge).


+1

I have found the online documentation to be quite unhelpful. It’s all 
about doing really amazing guru level stuff, but I am still trying to 
figure out the basics. Even finding a guide to markdown was a challenge.


Some of these issues might better be handled through better usability. 
Why not just have some buttons to insert markdown templates? So 
documentation is isn’t necessary the answer (even if it can be a quick 
fix for deeper problems).


Cheers,
Peter



On 11 Jan 2017, at 17:28, Ted Byfield wrote:

This thread is really helpful, in part because it crystalized an odd 
feeling I often get when using Mailmate — that *there's a better 
way* or *I'm doing it wrong*.


A Mailmate tips/tricks resource would very useful to fill the gap 
between the manual (which should be very minimal) and this ~support 
list (which is great but a noisy way to build practical knowledge).


This isn't intended as a criticism of MM at all — on the contrary, 
I'm just thinking about a resource that could help it to grow.


Cheers,
T

On 10 Jan 2017, at 19:41, Verdon Vaillancourt wrote:

a) I didn’t know that shift double-click would open the msg in a 
new window (for me)
b) I usually just hit as return to open the selected msg in a new 
window
c) I didn’t realize that the column I double-clicked on determined 
the filter for the search

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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Ted Byfield]

This thread is really helpful, in part because it crystalized an odd 
feeling I often get when using Mailmate — that *there's a better way* 
or *I'm doing it wrong*.


A Mailmate tips/tricks resource would very useful to fill the gap 
between the manual (which should be very minimal) and this ~support list 
(which is great but a noisy way to build practical knowledge).


This isn't intended as a criticism of MM at all — on the contrary, I'm 
just thinking about a resource that could help it to grow.


Cheers,
T

On 10 Jan 2017, at 19:41, Verdon Vaillancourt wrote:

a) I didn’t know that shift double-click would open the msg in a new 
window (for me)
b) I usually just hit as return to open the selected msg in a new 
window
c) I didn’t realize that the column I double-clicked on determined 
the filter for the search

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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Fredrik Jonsson]

Verdon Vaillancourt 2017-01-11 1:41 wrote:

That’s funny… mine is configured the other way around… has been 
so long I don’t know if I did that, or if it used to be default.


It's a setting, see MailMate -> Preferences -> Viewer -> Double click

Eudora was excellent for it's time but MailMate is definitely the best 
mail client I have used.


Fredrik
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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Verdon Vaillancourt]

That’s funny… mine is configured the other way around… has been so 
long I don’t know if I did that, or if it used to be default. I did 
learn a couple tricks from this conversation though…


a) I didn’t know that shift double-click would open the msg in a new 
window (for me)

b) I usually just hit as return to open the selected msg in a new window
c) I didn’t realize that the column I double-clicked on determined the 
filter for the search


Agreed… fantastic App!!


On 10 Jan 2017, at 18:10, Sherif Soliman wrote:


On 10 Jan 2017, at 11:30, Robert Brenstein wrote:

I just discovered that MailMate has a function equivalent to the mail 
concatenation feature of Eudora. I am in 7th heaven, and I thought to 
share this discovery! I saw the setting for this in the preferences 
quite a while ago but only now clicked what it really means. For 
those wondering what I am talking about:


If I double-click a message in MailMate, it opens that message in a 
new window. Nothing special here.


If I double-click a message holding the shift key, MailMate sets a 
filter that shows all messages with the same subject or whatever 
column I was clicking. This is pretty much the same what option-click 
did in Eudora. MM refers to this functionality as searching for 
related messages.


Tip: select the message before you double-click it, so MM does not 
use the first click to select multiple messages.




This is _awesome_. I think I may have understood, a long time ago, 
that part of this functionality existed, but I never understood it to 
do what you just explained it did.


MailMate continues to be one of the most delightful software I use.

Thanks for sharing.

Sherif




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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Dave C]

Thank you for pointing out this feature Robert. I used Eudora for years 
but I don’t remember being aware of this feature.


Cheers,
Dave

-=-=-=-

I just discovered that MailMate has a function equivalent to the mail 
concatenation feature of Eudora. I am in 7th heaven, and I thought to 
share this discovery! I saw the setting for this in the preferences 
quite a while ago but only now clicked what it really means. For those 
wondering what I am talking about:


If I double-click a message in MailMate, it opens that message in a 
new window. Nothing special here.


If I double-click a message holding the shift key, MailMate sets a 
filter that shows all messages with the same subject or whatever 
column I was clicking. This is pretty much the same what option-click 
did in Eudora. MM refers to this functionality as searching for 
related messages.


Tip: select the message before you double-click it, so MM does not use 
the first click to select multiple messages.


Robert
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[MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[Robert Brenstein]

I just discovered that MailMate has a function equivalent to the mail 
concatenation feature of Eudora. I am in 7th heaven, and I thought to 
share this discovery! I saw the setting for this in the preferences 
quite a while ago but only now clicked what it really means. For those 
wondering what I am talking about:


If I double-click a message in MailMate, it opens that message in a new 
window. Nothing special here.


If I double-click a message holding the shift key, MailMate sets a 
filter that shows all messages with the same subject or whatever column 
I was clicking. This is pretty much the same what option-click did in 
Eudora. MM refers to this functionality as searching for related 
messages.


Tip: select the message before you double-click it, so MM does not use 
the first click to select multiple messages.


Robert
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