[mailop] Email deliverability issues to Outlook

[Angelo Giuffrida via mailop]

Hi all,

Apologies for the duplicate post (a colleague of mine attempted to send it
but I think it's been held for moderation as he's a new user).

Wondering if anybody on the list is from Microsoft or can assist in raising
somebody at Microsoft to help with a strange delivery issue we are facing
sending email to Outlook users.

We are a web hosting company that has 10s of thousands of domains, spread
across a few hundred servers emailing out through an outgoing email
cluster. The cluster has multiple nodes and IPs.

The servers sitting behind the outgoing email cluster (the 800 servers or
so) all have hostnames ending in either domain1.com or domain2.com (not the
actual domains). When a customer sends emails however, they use their own
domain (user.com), so the only reference to the server is in the email
header, however SPF/DKIM etc are all based on the customers domain (user.com
).

We noticed after many complaints that all emails being sent from servers
ending in domain2.com are getting scored by Outlook as SCL:9, regardless of
email content, and has been for over a week now. We believe it's the server
hostname that is appearing in the headers, as we migrated a customer's
account (user.com) from a domain2.com server to a domain1.com server and
then sent the EXACT same email and it gets a SCL:1 score - it's also worth
noting that it used the identical outgoing email MTA and the same sending
IP from the mail that was being scored SCL:9.

We have reproduced this many times across multiple examples and can confirm
that all domains and emails being sent from a domain2.com server are
getting SCL:9, but the same email sent from the same sender email address
(but using filtering nodes that have the domain1.com domain) are not
getting flagged and getting scored SCL:1.

We are quite positive that these nodes are not sending spam, and have done
extensive investigations, SNDS is also showing no issues with our IPs.

Further, since the MTA connecting to Outlook is the same for both groups of
servers, we are relatively sure that it is not based on those IPs - but
something to do with the server hostname itself.

We have tried repeatedly to get in contact with Microsoft, but they come
back with . less than useful responses. This has happened to us in the
past many years ago, and the only fix was for Microsoft to remove the
punishment on the domain that was there for some reason.

If anybody can assist that would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Angelo Giuffrida
+61 421 221 585
Director, Nexigen Digital
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Re: [mailop] How to identify source of email sent via Google?

[Angelo Giuffrida via mailop]

Sorry it's been a rough day (death of a friend and member of our team) and
I might have been a bit snipey. I have a load of frustrations with
Microsoft's handling of spam, and assumed that somebody with seniority at
Microsoft might have had a hand in developing those policies.

On Sat., 20 Jul. 2019, 12:59 am Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. via mailop, <
mailop@mailop.org> wrote:

>
>
> > On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:30 AM, Angelo Giuffrida via mailop <
> mailop@mailop.org> wrote:
> >
> > I find it rich that Michael is in here throwing stones... can't exactly
> throw stones when you live in a glass house there big Mikey!
>
> I find it rich that you would disparage Michael like this, especially
> when, to the best of my knowledge you have only been around here since
> about 2016 (my archives go back to 2004, and, at least, 2016 is when you
> first appear in them).
>
> Michael, on the other hand, has been around for as long as have I and many
> of the others here, some of us for 20 years.  Of course, you were only 8
> years old back then, so you can be forgiven for not knowing that.
>
> More curious, though, is that during that first appearance of you here in
> 2016, you said this:
>
> > Welcome to the fun game of Microsoft & Hotmail blocks. If you do a search
> > through the list archives you'll find responses from Michael (and others)
> > that will be helpful. That should provide you with some information to
> get
> > started whilst you wait for others to reply.
>
> That, of course, would be the very same Michael against whom you are now
> casting aspersions.
>
> You've done great things with VentraIP;  please try to do great, and not
> petty, things here.
>
> Anne
>
> ---
>
> Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
> CEO/President, Institute for Social Internet Public Policy
> Dean of Cybersecurity & Cyberlaw, Lincoln Law School of San Jose
> GDPR, CCPA (CA) & CCDPA (CO) Compliance Consultant
> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
> Board of Directors, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
> Legal Counsel: The CyberGreen Institute
> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
>
>
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Re: [mailop] How to identify source of email sent via Google?

[Angelo Giuffrida via mailop]

I find it rich that Michael is in here throwing stones... can't exactly
throw stones when you live in a glass house there big Mikey!

Cheers, Angelo.

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 3:38 PM Jesper Sörtoft via mailop 
wrote:

> On 2019-07-18 21:06, Steven Champeon via mailop wrote:
>
> > Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha.
> >
> > Yeah, whatever. I've had rulesets that block webmail-injected 419/AFF
> > scams for over a decade and Google is among the few who I still get them
> > from because I can't tell if the IP is in West Africa thanks to this
> > idiotic "policy". It's just stupid.
>
> Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if Google has anyone employed to
> work with abuse? At all?
>
> I've been receiving the same Nigerian spam mail from the same 2-3 Gmail
> accounts for... 5? years now. It's been reported over and over again -
> hundreds of times by now. First reported the (according to google)
> "proper" way through "I would like to report a Gmail user who has sent
> messages that violate..." for a few years. Nothing happened, spamming
> from the same gmail accounts continued. Then in the past year I've just
> been forwarding it to ab...@gmail.com, but it seems like there's nobody
> there either - script or human. The spamming continues.
>
> The easy and sane way is to handle this is to just silently delete these
> mails, but I find it annoying that Google thinks they're big enough to
> ignore abuse and spam from their servers (while they on the other hand
> can block whatever for whatever unknown reason, since they are google).
> And it's even more annoying that they're probably right.
>
>
> / J
>
>
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Re: [mailop] Contact at tpg.com.au?

[Angelo Giuffrida via mailop]

I certainly agree that it should be done in-house (or at least in
Australia) but was just pointing out that there's no real 'security' risk
as the account numbers are usually obscured and there's no statement
attached.

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 6:28 AM Noel Butler  wrote:

> Yes, I can only speak for commbank who use their own servers and not
> offshore mail services
>
>
> cheers
>
>
> On 07/05/2019 18:41, Angelo Giuffrida wrote:
>
> Most Australian banks that I know of don't usually attach the statement to
> the email - it's simply a notification email that a new statement has been
> generated. No different to sending those emails via Mailgun, SendGrid,
> Postmark, etc.
>
> Cheers, Angelo
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 5:21 PM Noel Butler via mailop 
> wrote:
>
>> On 07/05/2019 15:22, Scot Berggren via mailop wrote:
>>
>> Checking to see if anyone has a contact at tpg.com.au that I can reach
>> out to regarding a deliverability issue we're having for bank statement
>> emails.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Scot Berggren | Deliverability and Compliance Manager | Alterian US | +1
>> 720 320-5365 |  www.alterian.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> What Australian bank uses an offfshore emailing service to send
>> statements?
>> Fraught with danger, no wonder you have deliverability issues
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>>
>> Noel Butler
>> This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged
>> information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright
>> protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or
>> reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority
>> to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
>> then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately.
>> Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by
>> reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF
>> <http://www.adobe.com/> and ODF
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument> documents accepted, please
>> do not send proprietary formatted documents
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>
>
> --
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Noel Butler
> This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged
> information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright
> protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or
> reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority
> to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
> then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately.
> Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by
> reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF
> <http://www.adobe.com/> and ODF
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument> documents accepted, please do
> not send proprietary formatted documents
>
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Re: [mailop] Contact at tpg.com.au?

[Angelo Giuffrida via mailop]

Most Australian banks that I know of don't usually attach the statement to
the email - it's simply a notification email that a new statement has been
generated. No different to sending those emails via Mailgun, SendGrid,
Postmark, etc.

Cheers, Angelo

On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 5:21 PM Noel Butler via mailop 
wrote:

> On 07/05/2019 15:22, Scot Berggren via mailop wrote:
>
> Checking to see if anyone has a contact at tpg.com.au that I can reach
> out to regarding a deliverability issue we're having for bank statement
> emails.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scot Berggren | Deliverability and Compliance Manager | Alterian US | +1
> 720 320-5365 |  www.alterian.com
>
>
>
>
> What Australian bank uses an offfshore emailing service to send statements?
> Fraught with danger, no wonder you have deliverability issues
>
>
> --
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Noel Butler
> This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged
> information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright
> protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or
> reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority
> to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
> then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately.
> Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by
> reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF
>  and ODF
>  documents accepted, please do
> not send proprietary formatted documents
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Re: [mailop] TLS support

[Angelo Giuffrida]

Seems that the email client stripped the double forward-slash from the
link. Copy the URL exactly as it appears, don't use the hyperlink:

https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.com/en//pubs/archive/43962.pdf

Complete with the double forward-slash and everything...

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 11:40 AM, Anthony Chiulli 
wrote:

> Alex - Link does not resolve for me, 404.
>
> *ANTHONY CHIULLI*
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:21 AM, Brotman, Alexander <
> alexander_brot...@comcast.com> wrote:
>
>> This is a tad dated, but:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.
>> com/en//pubs/archive/43962.pdf
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Alex Brotman
>>
>> Sr. Engineer, Anti-Abuse
>>
>> Comcast
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] *On Behalf Of *Matt
>> Vernhout
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 23, 2018 10:53 PM
>> *To:* Michael Storz 
>> *Cc:* mailop@mailop.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [mailop] TLS support
>>
>>
>>
>> Check out Google’s transparency report
>>
>>
>>
>> https://transparencyreport.google.com/safer-email/overview
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ~
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> On Feb 22, 2018, at 13:04, Michael Storz  wrote:
>>
>> Am 2018-02-22 16:40, schrieb David Hofstee:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> A quick question... Does anyone have numbers on:
>>
>> - the (volume) percentage of emails sent via TLS (capable mail
>>
>> servers)
>>
>> - the (volume) percentage of emails sent via TLS where the receiving
>>
>> mta has a valid certificate
>>
>> - the (volume) percentage of emails sent via TLS where the receiving
>>
>> mta uses a valid certificate and supports DANE
>>
>> Any answer is appreciated. Yours,
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> These are the numbers from the last seven days. Outbound traffic from the
>> Munich Scientific Network (several universities). 2/3 of the traffic goes
>> to Google, GMX, WEB.DE, Microsoft and Yahoo. GMX and WEB.DE support DANE
>> (TLSA records).
>>
>> TypeMTAs   Connections
>>
>> Untrusted   3.7752,05 %
>> No TLS  3.2782,36 %
>> Anonymous   3.5344,62 %
>> DANE  157   23,91 %
>> Trusted14.428   67,04 %
>> ---
>>   25.172   99,98 %
>>
>> Michael
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [mailop] Microsoft Blacklisting IPs

[Angelo Giuffrida]

Welcome to the fun game of Microsoft & Hotmail blocks. If you do a search
through the list archives you'll find responses from Michael (and others)
that will be helpful. That should provide you with some information to get
started whilst you wait for others to reply.

On Thu., 17 Nov. 2016 at 7:24 pm, Hetzner Blacklist Support <
blackl...@hetzner.de> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> We're currently having some major issues with our IPs being blacklisted
> by Microsoft. I'm signed up for the SNDS and a huge amount of our IPs
> are "blocked due to user complaints or other evidence of spamming".
>
> It's fairly easy to have the IPs delisted by filling out the "Sender
> Information for Outlook.com Delivery" form that Microsoft provides.
> However, that only allows up to a /24 to be delisted at a time, which
> means it is going to take a very long time to delist all of our ranges.
>
> Also, that doesn't actually address the underlying issue. Obviously spam
> isn't being sent from all of those IPs, but there has to be some reason
> Microsoft is listing them all.
>
> Is this something anybody here has experienced? Better yet, is there
> somebody from Microsoft who could have a quick look at this and give me
> some insight into the underlying issue? I've been attempting to contact
> Microsoft for a while now and only ever get canned responses (if at all).
>
> Any tips or help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Bastiaan van den Berg
>
> Hetzner Online GmbH
>
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