RE: [MapHist] Prussian town location
This is a MapHist list message. News: If you don't get messages anymore, go to http://www.maphist.nl for news about the new MapHist Forum o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Thank you all very much for the many contributions to my Weisshof question. Together with the other towns I was looking for and the name changes, I went back to take another look and found it. Bialy Dwor is the right location. Thanks again. Rich Boardman Free Library of Philadelphia -Original Message- From: maphist-boun...@geo.uu.nl [mailto:maphist-boun...@geo.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Oehrli Markus Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:26 AM To: 'Discussion group for map history' Subject: AW: [MapHist] Prussian town location This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Dear all No wonder that there is confusion. There were at least 3 locations in West Prussia or Danzig called Weißhof, belonging to the administrative units of Thorn, Marienwerder and Graudenz respectively. In addition, there were 3 places called Mischke, belonging to the administrative units of Schwetz, Konitz and Graudenz respectively. For all this I refer to: Historisches Ortschaftsverzeichnis Danzig-Westpreussen / bearb. und hrsg. vom Institut für Angewandte Geodäsie im Auftrag des Bundesministeriums des Innern unter der Ltg. von Karl-A. Wegener. - Frankfurt am Main : Verlag des Instituts für Angewandte Geodäsie, 1997. (Reihe historischer Ortschaftsverzeichnisse für ehemals zu Deutschland gehörige Gebiete - Zeitraum 1914 bis 1945 ; Band 7). -- entries for Mischke p. 301 -- entries for Weißhof p. 507 The entry for Weißhof near Mischke and Graudenz reads (abbreviated): Weißhof (before WWI) Białydwór (between WWI and WWII) Weißhof (1939-1945) Biały Dwór (1945-1992) Białydwór (since 1992) The village is situated at E 18°44'20/N 53°23'30. Note that the village is *not* labelled on Google Maps, while OpenStreetMap has it labelled wrongly as Biały Bór. Weißhof/Białydwór/Biały Dwór should not be confused with Weißheide/Białybór/Biały Bór which is approx. 1 km further north at E 18°44'15/N 53°23'55, correctly labelled on Google Maps but not labelled at its correct location on OpenStreetMap. For maps showing the correct locations of both villages I refer to: Topographische Karte 1:25,000 (i.e. the pre-WWII German topographical map series) -- sheet 2578 -- sheet 2678 Poland 1:50,000 (series M751) -- sheet 2924 IV Best wishes Markus Oehrli *** ZENTRALBIBLIOTHEK ZÜRICH Markus Oehrli Abteilung Karten und Panoramen Zähringerplatz 6 CH-8001 Zürich E-Mail: markus.oeh...@zb.uzh.ch Web: http://www.zb.uzh.ch *** Kartenportal: http://www.kartenportal.ch --- I suppose it's this one: about three km south of the city centre of Grudziadz (former Graudenz) there is Mniszek (Mischke), another km south you can find Bialy Bor (former Weißheide and Weißhof). Michael Am 21.12.2011 22:09, schrieb Boardman, Richard: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Hi, I'm trying to locate a very small town that was in West Prussia around the turn of the last century. It's listed in Ritter's with the usual administrative districts, etc. but I've been unable to find it on any map, including the 1:100k map series of Germany from that time period. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's the information I have: *WEISSHOF* VILLAGE/HAMLET IN WEST PRUSSIA LANDKREIS: GRAUDENZ POST: MISCHKE 263 INHABITANTS Thanks. Rich Boardman Free Library of Philadelphia ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
RE: [MapHist] Prussian town location
This is a MapHist list message. News: If you don't get messages anymore, go to http://www.maphist.nl for news about the new MapHist Forum o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + I am looking for a resource for Jewish or converso cartographers from the 14th through the 18th century Thanks P Retish -Original Message- From: maphist-boun...@geo.uu.nl [mailto:maphist-boun...@geo.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Boardman, Richard Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 10:53 AM To: 'Discussion group for map history' Subject: RE: [MapHist] Prussian town location This is a MapHist list message. News: If you don't get messages anymore, go to http://www.maphist.nl for news about the new MapHist Forum o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Thank you all very much for the many contributions to my Weisshof question. Together with the other towns I was looking for and the name changes, I went back to take another look and found it. Bialy Dwor is the right location. Thanks again. Rich Boardman Free Library of Philadelphia -Original Message- From: maphist-boun...@geo.uu.nl [mailto:maphist-boun...@geo.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Oehrli Markus Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:26 AM To: 'Discussion group for map history' Subject: AW: [MapHist] Prussian town location This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Dear all No wonder that there is confusion. There were at least 3 locations in West Prussia or Danzig called Weißhof, belonging to the administrative units of Thorn, Marienwerder and Graudenz respectively. In addition, there were 3 places called Mischke, belonging to the administrative units of Schwetz, Konitz and Graudenz respectively. For all this I refer to: Historisches Ortschaftsverzeichnis Danzig-Westpreussen / bearb. und hrsg. vom Institut für Angewandte Geodäsie im Auftrag des Bundesministeriums des Innern unter der Ltg. von Karl-A. Wegener. - Frankfurt am Main : Verlag des Instituts für Angewandte Geodäsie, 1997. (Reihe historischer Ortschaftsverzeichnisse für ehemals zu Deutschland gehörige Gebiete - Zeitraum 1914 bis 1945 ; Band 7). -- entries for Mischke p. 301 -- entries for Weißhof p. 507 The entry for Weißhof near Mischke and Graudenz reads (abbreviated): Weißhof (before WWI) Białydwór (between WWI and WWII) Weißhof (1939-1945) Biały Dwór (1945-1992) Białydwór (since 1992) The village is situated at E 18°44'20/N 53°23'30. Note that the village is *not* labelled on Google Maps, while OpenStreetMap has it labelled wrongly as Biały Bór. Weißhof/Białydwór/Biały Dwór should not be confused with Weißheide/Białybór/Biały Bór which is approx. 1 km further north at E 18°44'15/N 53°23'55, correctly labelled on Google Maps but not labelled at its correct location on OpenStreetMap. For maps showing the correct locations of both villages I refer to: Topographische Karte 1:25,000 (i.e. the pre-WWII German topographical map series) -- sheet 2578 -- sheet 2678 Poland 1:50,000 (series M751) -- sheet 2924 IV Best wishes Markus Oehrli *** ZENTRALBIBLIOTHEK ZÜRICH Markus Oehrli Abteilung Karten und Panoramen Zähringerplatz 6 CH-8001 Zürich E-Mail: markus.oeh...@zb.uzh.ch Web: http://www.zb.uzh.ch *** Kartenportal: http://www.kartenportal.ch --- I suppose it's this one: about three km south of the city centre of Grudziadz (former Graudenz) there is Mniszek (Mischke), another km south you can find Bialy Bor (former Weißheide and Weißhof). Michael Am 21.12.2011 22:09, schrieb Boardman, Richard: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Hi, I'm trying to locate a very small town that was in West Prussia around the turn of the last century. It's listed in Ritter's with the usual administrative districts, etc. but I've been unable to find it on any map, including the 1:100k map series of Germany from that time period. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's the information I have: *WEISSHOF* VILLAGE/HAMLET IN WEST PRUSSIA LANDKREIS: GRAUDENZ POST: MISCHKE 263 INHABITANTS Thanks. Rich Boardman Free Library of Philadelphia ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
Re: [MapHist] Prussian town location
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Le 21.12.2011 22:09, Boardman, Richard a écrit : This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Hi, I'm trying to locate a very small town that was in West Prussia around the turn of the last century. It's listed in Ritter's with the usual administrative districts, etc. but I've been unable to find it on any map, including the 1:100k map series of Germany from that time period. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's the information I have: *WEISSHOF* VILLAGE/HAMLET IN WEST PRUSSIA LANDKREIS: GRAUDENZ POST: MISCHKE 263 INHABITANTS Thanks. Rich Boardman Free Library of Philadelphia Today /Bystrzec/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystrzec 170 inhabitants. Mischke = Mniszek Best regards _ Christos Nüssli * Europe Maps - http://www.euratlas.org ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
Re: [MapHist] Prussian town location
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + It's called Bystrzec in Polish. You should be able to locate this on a modern map, which may well help you with locating it on an old map. I've not found any other German names for it, although it's not unusual for places in that area to have two German names, one of which is often a version of the Polish name. On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 21:09, Boardman, Richard boardm...@freelibrary.orgwrote: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Hi, ** ** I’m trying to locate a very small town that was in West Prussia around the turn of the last century. It’s listed in Ritter’s with the usual administrative districts, etc. but I’ve been unable to find it on any map, including the 1:100k map series of Germany from that time period. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here’s the information I have: ** ** *WEISSHOF* ** ** VILLAGE/HAMLET IN WEST PRUSSIA LANDKREIS: GRAUDENZ POST: MISCHKE 263 INHABITANTS ** ** Thanks. ** ** Rich Boardman Free Library of Philadelphia ** ** ** ** ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
Re: [MapHist] Prussian town location
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + According to Google map, the distance from Bystrzec to Miniszek is 177 Km but the information supplied by Rich Boardman tell us a different story as Weisshof (old name of Bystrzec) is in the territory of the post of Mischke (old name of Mniszek). It is very hard to believe that the post of Mischke covered such a wide territory. I fear something is wrong in the identification. vladimiro Il giorno 21/dic/2011, alle ore 22.32, Christos Nüssli ha scritto: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Le 21.12.2011 22:09, Boardman, Richard a écrit : This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Hi, I’m trying to locate a very small town that was in West Prussia around the turn of the last century. It’s listed in Ritter’s with the usual administrative districts, etc. but I’ve been unable to find it on any map, including the 1:100k map series of Germany from that time period. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here’s the information I have: WEISSHOF VILLAGE/HAMLET IN WEST PRUSSIA LANDKREIS: GRAUDENZ POST: MISCHKE 263 INHABITANTS Thanks. Rich Boardman Free Library of Philadelphia Today Bystrzec http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystrzec 170 inhabitants. Mischke = Mniszek Best regards _ Christos Nüssli * Europe Maps - http://www.euratlas.org ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
Re: [MapHist] Prussian town location
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + I suppose it's this one: about three km south of the city centre of Grudziadz (former Graudenz) there is Mniszek (Mischke), another km south you can find Bialy Bor (former Weißheide and Weißhof). Michael Am 21.12.2011 22:09, schrieb Boardman, Richard: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Hi, I'm trying to locate a very small town that was in West Prussia around the turn of the last century. It's listed in Ritter's with the usual administrative districts, etc. but I've been unable to find it on any map, including the 1:100k map series of Germany from that time period. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's the information I have: *WEISSHOF* VILLAGE/HAMLET IN WEST PRUSSIA LANDKREIS: GRAUDENZ POST: MISCHKE 263 INHABITANTS Thanks. Rich Boardman Free Library of Philadelphia ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
Re: [MapHist] Prussian town location
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + According to Google, there are two towns that could be the one sought, one was in Poland and the other in West Prussia. Could that be the solution? Dee, who knows nothing of the area other than a short visit to Krakow. Dee Longenbaugh The Observatory, ABAA 299 North Franklin Street Juneau, Alaska, 99801 www.observatorybooks.com deel...@alaska.com Since 1977 Alaska specialists Lichen on the rock ignores a nearby lightning strike, and so it is with cartographers. B.E.W. Allen On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:13 PM, Christos Nüssli wrote: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Le 22.12.2011 00:34, Michael Ritter a écrit : This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + I suppose it's this one: about three km south of the city centre of Grudziadz (former Graudenz) there is Mniszek (Mischke), another km south you can find Bialy Bor (former Weißheide and Weißhof). Michael Maybe yes. Take into account however that Bystrzec has now been integrated into Podzamcze (~10 km east of Gniew), near Kwidzyn, and there are 50 km between Bystrzec and Mniszek, but the road crosses Grudziadz. At Bystrzec, there is a castle which was recently converted into a hotel (the White Manor) http://www.bialy-dwor.pl/index_pl.htm (rated 8.1 on booking.com) I should be possible to check both possibilities on the David Rumsey recently added Karte des Deutschen Reiches, 1893 but the server is too busy this evening. Atb _ Christos Nüssli * Europe Maps - http://www.euratlas.org ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
