[libreoffice-marketing] Re: testing out 2 new large word list English dictionaries.

2011-11-03 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 01/11/11 15:40, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions a écrit :
 
 I am testing out 2 new .oxt extensions.  They are about 5.5MB each in size.
 
 If you would rather see the 98K word list, or the other sizes, let me
 know.  I will be working on testing them out later.  But, for my fist
 testing, I decided to go with a large word file.
 
 Here are the links.
 

 
 http://libreoffice-na.us/English-3.4-installs/add-on-dictionaries-large-list/kpp-british-english-dictionary-large-list.oxt

I tested installation of this one on the current master build,
installation worked, but how does one know if it has replaced the
initial dictionary ?

Alex


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)

2011-09-15 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 14/09/11 19:14, Robert Ryley a écrit :

Hi Robert,

 In order to market the package productively, some input from the base
 developers would be helpful.  I personally want to know
 
 1.  How integrated into writer, calc, etc. is base?
 
 2.  What exactly do we want base to do?  Personally, if it isn't at
 least somewhat compatible with MS access, I don't know what the point
 is.

I am not a developer, but I have been using the database stuff of
OOo/LibO since before it even became open source, i.e. back in the day
when it was still a proprietary StarDivision product - there has to my
knowledge never been a specific remit for the database functionality to
be Access compatible. It has always been more of a offer the broadest
general support for as many db engines as possible kind of approach,
and then this became a provide a portable cross-platform single file db
solution, in order for Sun to try and offer something akin to MS
Access' own single file db solution.

This is why although it is possible to use LibO to read from MS Access
db files on Windows OS only, none of the reports, queries, forms etc
that are available in a MS Access file are exploitable. There is
currently no support for reading MS Access files on any other OS from
within LibO that I know of (possibly with an ODBC driver one can read
and write to Access files on Windows, but I wouldn't know). On Mac, it
is possible to have read-only MS Access ODBC driver connections by
paying for ActiveConnection's ODBC proprietary driver, but I haven't
tried it. On Linux, reading mdb files and their schemata is up to the
linux mdb drivers project, which are not integrated into LibO as far as
I know.


So the state of affairs with regard to actually using MS Access data for
anything other than reading on platforms other than Windows is pretty
grim. This has been a problem for more than 10 years.

 
 3. To recruit developers, or at least make better use of current
 volunteers, is there a willingness to explore/experiment with JVM
 compatible languages that might speed up development time (after the
 learning curve, of course)?  The info gained from using base revisions
 might help other areas of the project without being too disruptive to
 other sections of the code.  Also, working on something new and
 bleeding edge would create some developer interest in communities
 that wouldn't normally consider working on a boring office project.

I could be wrong, but anything that involves more Java will probably not
be immensely welcome in the project as the current trend is to try and
remove as much of the Java dependencies as possible.


 5. There are a lot of smaller DB backends that could be used.  MySQL
 and Postgress aren't the only ones.  SQLite is worthy of consideration
 if it makes technical sense to scrap what is currently used.

Someone had started on trying to integrate SQLite into the code as a
replacement backend for hsqldb, but it appears that has stalled (or at
least I can't seem to find anything in the current code base relating to
that effort). It is currently built when compiling the mozilla nss
integration required for digital signatures, but apparently there are
known problems on some of the build systems (e.g. MacOS) because of
conflicts between system libsqlite and the one that is required for the
moz component.


Alex



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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)

2011-09-15 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 14/09/11 22:40, Robert Ryley a écrit :

Hi Robert,

 If there is a move away from java, that is going to make a significant
 portion of that documentation obsolete.  Is there anything
 specifically related to the move away from java documented anywhere?
 Any idea what the API is going to be to replace it?
 

AFAIK support for Java is not being dropped, i.e. the API and UNO will
still support Java implementations of functionality, rather the hooks
which provide currently provide certain functionality, e.g. the Wizards,
are being converted to other coding languages, such as Python. The aim
is reduce dependency on Java implementations where possible, replacing
them with other coding alternatives.

There has been a GSOC project this year to achieve that very goal, i.e.
the migration of at least some of the assistants from a Java based
implementation to a Python based implementation. These are currently in
the 3.5 development branch of the code.

I'm not actually sure if this is documented anywhere, but most likely
this will have been decided in the Engineering Steering Committee
meetings. The reports of these are posted on the wiki.


Alex


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)

2011-09-14 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 14/09/11 03:39, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions a écrit :

Hi all,

 If we had more documentation for and people who really knows Base, it
 would be easier to sell LO to some businesses.  I know a user that I
 had to add Office 2003 to his system since that was a deal breaker.  He
 has all of the books and modeling work in data base formats and cannot
 live without Access.  He created those DBs with MSO 97 and did not
 upgrade to MSO 2003 until he switched computers and could not find the
 install CD for '97.  So unless LO can easily use Access files and
 reports and forms he created over the years, he will not go to LO, even
 thought he likes the idea behind LO and FOSS.
 
 So we really need to get more people to learn Base and ways for other to
 easily learn how to use it.

Writing documentation for Base is a pointless exercise for as long as
the bugs which hinder the user from actually getting anywhere are not
fixed. Currently it is like trying to sell a new car to someone where,
once you get going, the motor drops out after 5 minutes.

OK, so it is an exaggerated analogy, but realistically that is how it is
today with Base (and it is not a new phenomenon, it has just got
significantly worse since OOo released the 3.4-dev codebase and
LibreOffice started).

It is a chicken and egg situation : people don't want to use it or write
documentation for it, because it doesn't work as designed. Developers
do not want to fix something that people do not want to use, especially
when :

- the effort just to get into the codebase is huge ;
- you have to know quite a lot about databases ;
- you have to know a substantial amount about Java programming ;
- you have to understand UNO, and how the C++ code within LibreOffice is
bound to the Java functionality that Sun added on and made interdependent.

Not bad for a job description, huh ?

Good luck finding someone prepared to take that on :-))


Alex


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)

2011-09-14 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 14/09/11 12:27, Tom Davies a écrit :

Hi Tom,

 Hi :)
 There is an alternative.  Kexi
 
 It's the KOffice / Calligra equivalent of Base but it is in better shape than 
 Base.  
 
 It already has a fairly strong community of devs.  It is already free of Java 
 and uses a few tiny Qt components instead.  Qt is cross-platform too but 
 apparently it's much easier to write.  It supports a number of back-ends in 
 the same way as Base so we wouldn't be taking a step backwards.  

Not that I want to put a downer on your suggestion, but have you
actually tried installing and running Kexi on Windows and Mac ?

On the Mac, you have to download and install the kde environment via
macports or fink and then compile and install the koffice port from
that...simplicity is not the word here, not to mention all the cruft
that you end up putting on your system for no apparently good reason.


Alex


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)

2011-09-14 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 14/09/11 15:05, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :

Hi Charles,


 The second point is about recruitment of developers. I hope that I'm not
 making myself a mistake in assuming that what is being understood is to
 actually hire developers... perhaps what is meant is attracting
 developers? In any case, we cannot mandate developers to work on
 something like we would do in a company. It's a big difference between a
 business and a FOSS community and project. Developers join by
 themselves, provided the information is there.

Exactly, my comment as to the requirements of a developer were more in
line with if a volunteer wants to step up this is how high the barrier
to entry is going to be, and not at all a view to hiring a developer,
which as you mention, is not something that really happens in FOSS
projects (or else, only on rare occasions).


 
 I must admit I am myself very, very unclear on what we are trying to
 achieve with Base. And it's not just now, it's always been the case (for
 me, at least). Base was added to Openoffice.org as a new module and the
 whole experience was suboptimal. 

Well my memory is obviously slightly older than yours because I remember
the days of OOo 1.1.x and prior to that with StarOffice, where databases
were already accessible, where forms could be designed and made, and
queries designed and run. I even designed a switchboard document with
buttons that let me link and switch to forms for data entry. The rest,
as they say, is history, and after some humming and hahing by Sun we
ended up with the Base module as we currently know/love/hate it.


 mean time. The result now is not that we have developers not doing
 anything on Base (in fact, we do). The result is that there are less
 resources on this because developers are simply less interested in
 acting on it, and there's nothing we can force them to do (or not do).

Quite.


 
 Hence, one thing that might help -and this is very much a call for
 brainstorm, with the hope that we collect expectations about Base- is to
 gather feedback from users, see what we can understand from their use,
 or non-use of Base, and not being afraid to ask some real questions.

I actually think this would be a good idea : it was, after all (at least
that is what we were led to believe), the results of a user survey that
goaded Sun into action about designing Base2 (as opposed to
maintaining/improving the then existing database capability).

 
 As an example: should Base be scrapped off? Should we use it as a front
 end to another DB? should we try to compete with Access? Should it be
 geared towards a more complete usage (read: integrated as a front end to
 enterprise DB); is it enough to squash the reported bugs on Base? etc.
 
 After that survey we can a) analyze the results b) take action in two
 forms: suggestions to the broader community (devs included) or writing a
 set of RFEs (Request For Enhancement). RFEs are something developers can
 work with. You may call them hacks, but  the point is this; you describe
 in technical and functional terms, step by step, what a feature should
 be. Not just It should be able to compete with Access or it should be
 red. But rather: description of feature, rationale, behaviour, usage
 scenario, etc..
 

If a survey were to see the light of day, it would need to have the
broadest possible communication, as the majority of Base users I know
are not actually on any of the LibO lists, or at least their voices are
not often to be heard. It would be interesting to hear what people still
using OOo feel too, because on the Apache lists, IBM, for one, appears
to have no real interest in a sophisticated frontend solution (they got
rid of it completely in Symphony).


So whilst the general discussion about Base could well be carried out on
the discuss list, it would be good for discussions about making a survey
to be kept here IMO.


Alex


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)

2011-09-14 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 14/09/11 19:57, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :

Hi Charles,

 In fact, putting the survey online should not be impossible... 
 But let's agree on the questions first.

Hehe, always the difficult part...


 
 1) Users typology
 - platform
 - modules that are the most used (list all LibreOffice modules and
   allow the responding person to select each of them from 1 to 5)

OK so far, that would be similar to the Sun survey.


 
 2) About Base:
 - use case typology (more input needed here, I won't be exhaustive)
 - do you use Base as a font-end to external DBs or do you rely on
   HSQLDB ? Or both?

- hmm, we may need to cater for the non-technical user here : frontend
and external DB could be confusing. Something like :

If using Base, do you use :
1) builtin (native) HSQLDB ;
2) another database engine (e.g. mysql, postgresql, H2, firebird, DB2, etc)
3) if the answer to (2) was Yes, which kind of database engine ?
4) if the answer to (2) was Yes which kind of connector (JDBC, ODBC,
MySQL C Connector extension, postgresql connector extension, some other
driver etc) ?


If using Base, do you :
1) need it for personal/domestic use only
2) need it for small scale professional use
3) need it for large scale, multi-user, business or organisation use


 - how would you rate Base?  (choice between it's bad, it's very buggy,
   it's okay but it could be much better,  I really like it).

Scale of 1 to 5 (as in 1 for total agreement through indifferent (3) to
5 total disagreement with the statement) ?


 - what is the most blocking bug in Base according to you (free answer +
   possible pointing to a reported issue

This would be a nightmare question in IMHO, probably attracting far too
many diverse responses (and possibly even several in the same field).
I'm not really sure what could be suggested instead, as anything like
this will be bound to attract criticism for being too selective,
focussed or oriented.

Perhaps it could be worded thus :
What single feature or functionality would you most like to see fixed
rapidly ? (like I said, I'm not too happy with this kind of reasoning,
especially where there are several issues that vie for popularity in my
own mind ;-))


 
 3) Base in the future
 - do you plan to use Base more or less in the future?

IMO a leading question, but hey I'm not a psychologist :-)

 - do you plan to use Base as a front end to external DB or do you plan
   to use it as a front end to the embedded HSQLDB?
 - do you think LibreOffice should get rid of Base?
 - If LibreOffice were to get rid of Base, what would you be using as a
   front end to databases? (freeform answer).


Can't think of anything else offhand, but no doubt my brain will wake up
again later :-)) BTW, I do not consider myself to be an expert in
anything anyway related to survey materials, as I tend to be overly
critical of them anyway !!!



Alex


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Multiple tabs in Libo

2011-09-06 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 06/09/11 13:58, Benjamin Horst a écrit :
 

Hi all,

 
 Lotus Symphony, which is derived from OOo, has a great tabbed UI. 
 Screenshots: 
 http://www-03.ibm.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.nsf/product_wpe
 
 With IBM's announcement it was donating the Symphony code to Apache, it 
 seemed possible (though unconfirmed) that this UI could become available to 
 OOo and LibO.
 

The UI of Lotus Symphony is a pale representation of the tabs that were
available in Lotus SmartSuite (word processing) documents (which was
IMHO excellent for document navigation). Additionally, the UI tabbed
interface of current Lotus Symphony is apparently not part of anything
that IBM will be releasing to the public domain any time soon (it was
developed with Eclipse and Java and has special closed licensing issues
from what I understand).

There was a GSOC project to bring a tabbed interface to OOo in the
version 1.x.x branches, but it never got integrated by Sun at the time,
and the code didn't work in the 2.x.x branches, so assuming it could be
found, it would need a complete rewrite.


Alex



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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Bsd

2011-05-12 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 12/05/11 17:17, Tom Davies a écrit :

Hi all,

A recent posting on the dev list by a user attempting to install the BSD
port, through the use of the ports system, i.e. building, compiling, etc
has indicated that it does not necessarily install as easily as one
might think. However, BSD installable packages can be found :

http://files.bsdroot.lv/my/FreeBSD/office-amd64/

http://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/amd64/packages-current/editors/libreoffice-3.3.0_1.tbz

and also via the following command :

portmaster -x libreoffice

I will have to see if I can set up a BSD machine on some old machine
laying around not doing much and try it out.

Alex



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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Bsd

2011-05-12 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 12/05/11 17:58, Tom Davies a écrit :

Hi Tom,

 Fantastic!  Thanks for checking that.  I gather that it's usually fairly easy 
 to 
 install but occasionally people stumble into some weird problems for no 
 readily 
 apparent reason.  Much the same as installs to any other OS really.  However 
 it 
 seems that Bsd users are often more experienced and able to fix simpler 
 problems 
 themselves so we might not be hearing about all the problems and just get the 
 toughest ones.  I tend to send Bsd people straight to the devs list because 
 hardly anyone on the users or marketing lists has a clue about Bsd.  

Yes, most people using BSD already know what they are doing. The forum
discussions for FreeBSD and PC-BSD are also at hand for people having
problems.

 
 
 I don't think you should install Bsd yourself except that it's interesting to 
 explore and can lead to much greater understanding of your preferred OS too.

Oh, I'm not worried about that, I've run various versions of BSD in the
past, from 5.x through to 6.x, it is actually where I started building
my own stuff really for the first time in a big way, so I know what lies
in store :-)). My biggest issue with it was its (at the time) poor
management of disk space, if you ran out, the whole system crashed and
was often left in an unrecoverable state - by UFS file system, and
the fact that it wasn't very good at supporting various wifi chipsets,
even after building them :-/ Hopefully things have improved now :-)
OpenOffice.org ran pretty well on it too.


Alex



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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: A note for Skype ConfCall participants

2011-05-10 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 09/05/11 17:06, Florian Effenberger a écrit :

Hi Florian,

 a short note to those wanting to participate in our conference calls via
 Skype: The amount of Skype dial-ins is limited, due to licensing issues.

It might get even more restrictive now that Microsoft has bought up Skype.


Alex


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: presentation templates

2011-05-03 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 03/05/11 14:37, Florian Effenberger a écrit :

Hi Florian,

 
 just to let you know, the German company PresentationLoad offers free
 presentation templates for LibreOffice:
 http://www.presentationload.com/en/LibreOffice/?campaign=Libreoffice
 

Nice set of templates, kudos to them for making them available !!


Alex


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Starting something like LibreCon

2011-02-14 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 14/02/11 14:18, Marc Paré a écrit :


 Personally, I think that OpenOffice Oracle will now concentrate on java
 + cloud implementation while keeping a close eye on our code base. We
 should move away from java and start eyeing up and planning for cloud
 implementation as well.
 


The cloud development orientation would also correspond to what IBM is
offering with Lotus Live and Symphony.

Alex


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Starting something like LibreCon

2011-02-14 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 14/02/11 14:53, Marc Paré a écrit :

 Are they moving away from Java?
 

I have no idea, I only downloaded Symphony the other day to try it out
and then promptly got an e-mail from IBM with an offering of their Lotus
Live service - which went straight into the electronic wastebin :-))

Alex


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [Localisation groups] Projects and communication

2010-11-15 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Hi Marc,

Le 15/11/10 11:40, Marc Paré a écrit :

 Would there be any idea on how to do this efficiently?

Within the OOo project, this task was carried out by the N-L leads and
co-leads. Annoucements were made on the OOo announcement lists, then
translated by the N-L leads/co-leads and then posted to the
corresponding list.


It actually worked pretty well IMHO.

Alex


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Res: Res: Re: Change icon?

2010-11-10 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Hi Marc,

Le 09/11/10 20:01, Marc Paré a écrit :

 
 Thanks Alex. Just for information, are you willing to help out with the
 legal aspects of the branding of LibO? It would really be handy if you
 could. We are often a little naive when proposing some of these things
 such as icons, mascot etc. We would definitely need some one talented in
 this domain.

Yes, with the caveat that I can not possibly know each and every law of
each and every country in which LibreOffice is going to be deployed ;-),
but where I can help out, I shall try. Bear in mind that the US and, to
a certain extent, even Canada, have different implementations and
legal/legal policy viewpoints with regard to IP. It would be difficult
for me to give advice about those aspects, and indeed, could be
considered as illegal practice of law in those countries. This is
probably one of the reasons why there are so few attorneys active in
general in opensource projects (other than their general dislike of pro
bono work), except to express themselves in very general terms or with
respect to a particular territory.


Alex


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Res: Res: Re: Change icon?

2010-11-09 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Hi David,

Le 08/11/10 22:57, David Nelson a écrit :
 Hi, :-)
 
 They can certainly copyright their particular version. However, IANAL,
 but I don't think they can copyright the whole concept of a paper
 plane in general. Anyway, La Poste? Those guys can hardly stagger out
 of bed in the morning... I'd be surprised if there would be a
 problem... Anyway, their logo is in fact a bird, not a plane...


Think again, they can and have sued people for trademark infringement of
the marks they use to promote their business. Y'all should be checking
whether the plane concept has been filed as a trademark in association
with office activity, computing, or media (in the largest senses).


BTW, I am a lawyer, specialising in intellectual property.

Alex


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Res: Res: Re: Change icon?

2010-11-09 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 09/11/10 13:53, David Nelson a écrit :

 
 Since *you* are a lawyer and an intellectual property specialist,
 would there be any chance that *you* could maybe check the copyright
 status out for us?
 

A very quick search in the European Community trademark database for the
words paper plane threw up 3 results :

- one owned by Nintendo, smack bang in the classes of goods and services
in which LibreOffice would be active ;

- and two others called Paper Planes Magazine owned by PUBLI GRAFIC
EDITORES, SOCIEDAD LIMITADA.


In the Hague Design Right database, a search for the keywords avion
and papier:

http://www.wipo.int/cgi-hag/guest/ifetch5?FRE+HAGUE-ALL.vdb+12-00+41312969-REVERSE+0+0+25920+F-FRE+1+1+1+25+SEP-0/HITNUM,B-FRE,,+DE%2favion+AND+DE%2fpapier+



This is naturally just a sample of what is out there.


Alex




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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Res: Res: Re: Change icon?

2010-11-09 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 09/11/10 14:54, Alexander Thurgood a écrit :

Oh, and I forgot to throw in registered and unregistered industrial
design rights ;-), which are cumulative with copyright in some
jurisdictions and mutually exclusive of copyrights (but not trademarks)
in others :-))

Enough to give any sane creator a major migraine.


Alex



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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Res: Res: Re: Change icon?

2010-11-09 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Hi David,

Le 09/11/10 16:01, David Nelson a écrit :
 Hi Alex, :-)
 
 Thanks for your time on that... I guess that puts a stopper on the
 paper plane mascot idea then?


Hmm, well, I don't really think the Foundation (or should I say the
German OpenOffice.org Verein, since they are currently hosting and
taking contributions and could be seen to be the responsible legal
entity) can afford a potentially damaging and expensive trademark suit
before it even officially has any legal existence ;-) And that just in
one region of the globe.

It would be rather embarassing for the project to find itself in the
press for all the wrong reasons just after it had started up, IMHO.


Alex


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Res: Res: Re: Change icon?

2010-11-09 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 09/11/10 17:07, Alexander Thurgood a écrit :
 
 It would be rather embarassing for the project to find itself in the
 press for all the wrong reasons just after it had started up, IMHO.
 

Having said that, it could be argued that the inclusion of a graphical
representation of a paper plane in a more complex semi-figurative
representation (i.e. the proposed icons) is not likely to cause
confusion in the mind of the general public, although I'm sure Nintendo
could make like difficult if it wanted to...the question as ever comes
down to who today has the money and guts to slog it out with a big name
corporation that has a past history of asserting its IP rights. If the
Foundation/Community/SC really wants to go with this, maybe they should
get in touch with the FSF legal department.


Alex


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