Re: [libreoffice-marketing] MS plans to force OEMs to add boot feature that blocks use of Linux and free software.
On 10/19/2011 09:39 PM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions wrote: In some related articles, experts looked at that is currently in the secure boot option and they have concern about what happens if MS controls the keys - like current plan - and hardware OEMs do not want to pay the bribe monies to MS to include their hardware in the accepted list. If you buy a new video card or a new SATA controller or drive that is not registered with MS, that expert[s] feel that the secure boot system will not allow the computer to boot at all. I still run across hardware that are not MS registered and I get nasty pop-ups warning me about installing the device and drivers since it is not MS approved. I still can install it, with hassle, but what will happen if I get this on a secure booted system. Sorry the company did not pay the bribe and so you cannot use it. Then there are the new stuff that comes out after the computer is built. Even if they register with MS, there is no way to allow the system to boot with that newer hardware without a firmware upgrade. I had one of those go bad with a router. I had to through it out since it would never work again. [...] This is already being done by manufacturers: http://h30499.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-HP-ProBook-Compaq-Slate/104-Unsupported-wireless-network-device-detected/td-p/1152612 Secure Boot is only a way for every one of them to agree on a standard, massive way of doing this. F. -- -- Fabián Rodríguez -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] MS plans to force OEMs to add boot feature that blocks use of Linux and free software.
Please read the linked article. [below] If Microsoft gets away with this, then no computer that has a Windows 8 logo on it will not be able to boot from free OSs like Linux. This will be part of the BIOS. You might not be able to run free software like LibreOffice, if it goes to the extreme end. To me, if MS get away with forcing OEMs to make it so their systems cannot run Linux, then it is another anti-trust violation for MS. Billy boy is going back to court about unfair practices from the 90's, so if people do not step up now to convince OEMs that we will not buy their products if they implement the free OS and software blocker at the BOOT LEVEL, then we cannot buy any new computers for Linux. http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/free-software-foundation-urges-oems-to-say-no-to-mandatory-windows-8-uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=tag=nl.rSINGLE http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/free-software-foundation-urges-oems-to-say-no-to-mandatory-windows-8-uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=tag=nl.rSINGLE Free Software Foundation urges OEMs to say no to mandatory Windows 8 UEFI cage By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols | October 18, 2011, 1:26pm PDT Summary: The Free Software Foundation is asking OEMs to give users a choice on Microsoft anti-Linux Windows 8's United Extensive Firmware security feature. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] MS plans to force OEMs to add boot feature that blocks use of Linux and free software.
On 19 October 2011 16:59, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: Please read the linked article. [below] If Microsoft gets away with this, then no computer that has a Windows 8 logo on it will not be able to boot from free OSs like Linux. This will be part of the BIOS. You might not be able to run free software like LibreOffice, if it goes to the extreme end. I should think that is illegal under competition law. To me, if MS get away with forcing OEMs to make it so their systems cannot run Linux, then it is another anti-trust violation for MS. Billy boy is going back to court about unfair practices from the 90's, so if people do not step up now to convince OEMs that we will not buy their products if they implement the free OS and software blocker at the BOOT LEVEL, then we cannot buy any new computers for Linux. We can buy new computers, just not those that come with Windows. Might even be an advantage since there will be a niche market in supplying hardware that is not restricted in that way. I might start a new business :-) http://www.zdnet.com/blog/**open-source/free-software-** foundation-urges-oems-to-say-**no-to-mandatory-windows-8-** uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=**tag=nl.rSINGLEhttp://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/free-software-foundation-urges-oems-to-say-no-to-mandatory-windows-8-uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=tag=nl.rSINGLE http://www.zdnet.com/blog/**open-source/free-software-** foundation-urges-oems-to-say-**no-to-mandatory-windows-8-** uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=**tag=nl.rSINGLEhttp://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/free-software-foundation-urges-oems-to-say-no-to-mandatory-windows-8-uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=tag=nl.rSINGLE Free Software Foundation urges OEMs to say no to mandatory Windows 8 UEFI cage By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols | October 18, 2011, 1:26pm PDT Summary: The Free Software Foundation is asking OEMs to give users a choice on Microsoft anti-Linux Windows 8's United Extensive Firmware security feature. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+help@global.** libreoffice.org marketing%2bh...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquette http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**libreoffice.org/global/**marketing/http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] MS plans to force OEMs to add boot feature that blocks use of Linux and free software.
I suspect the workarounds will include capturing all the needed keys, reflashing the bios/uefi chip, and installing what you want. It is a PITA, but not insurmountable. It will probably spur more open hardware, to the detriment of those determined to lock down the system. MS aside, uefi is a good idea. This particular implementation is not. On Oct 19, 2011 12:12 PM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 October 2011 16:59, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: Please read the linked article. [below] If Microsoft get... I should think that is illegal under competition law. To me, if MS get away with forcing OEMs to make it so their systems cannot run Linux, then it is ... We can buy new computers, just not those that come with Windows. Might even be an advantage since there will be a niche market in supplying hardware that is not restricted in that way. I might start a new business :-) http://www.zdnet.com/blog/**open-source/free-software-** foundation-urges-oems-to-say-**no-to-mandatory-windows-8-** uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=**tag=nl.rSINGLE http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/free-software-foundation-urges-oems-to-say-no-to-mandatory-windows-8-uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=tag=nl.rSINGLE http://www.zdnet.com/blog/**open-source/free-software-** foundation-urges-oems-to-say-**no-to-mandatory-windows-8-** uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=**tag=nl.rSINGLE http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/free-software-foundation-urges-oems-to-say-no-to-mandatory-windows-8-uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=tag=nl.rSINGLE Free Software Foundation urges OEMs to say no to mandatory Windows 8 UEFI cage By Stev... Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+help@global.** libreoffice.org marketing%2bh...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/ http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquette http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**libreoffice.org/global/**marketing/ http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] MS plans to force OEMs to add boot feature that blocks use of Linux and free software.
In some related articles, experts looked at that is currently in the secure boot option and they have concern about what happens if MS controls the keys - like current plan - and hardware OEMs do not want to pay the bribe monies to MS to include their hardware in the accepted list. If you buy a new video card or a new SATA controller or drive that is not registered with MS, that expert[s] feel that the secure boot system will not allow the computer to boot at all. I still run across hardware that are not MS registered and I get nasty pop-ups warning me about installing the device and drivers since it is not MS approved. I still can install it, with hassle, but what will happen if I get this on a secure booted system. Sorry the company did not pay the bribe and so you cannot use it. Then there are the new stuff that comes out after the computer is built. Even if they register with MS, there is no way to allow the system to boot with that newer hardware without a firmware upgrade. I had one of those go bad with a router. I had to through it out since it would never work again. MS states it is up to the OEM computer builders and bios builders to allow the thing to be disables via a checkbox. It cost more to do that and since it has to be on or MS will not sell them their OS, some OEMs have stated that their current plan is not to have that option of disabling it. Cost less that way. Having something to stop those boot loader nasties is good, but if it prevents the good things from being able to work, then there is something wrong. There was a statement about why should MS with 99% of the share be required to allow the 1% to work on the computers that have their logo on. My feeling is that if this new security system prevents that 1% from working on legally bought systems that you want to add Linux onto it [dual boot or only boot] then there is some real bad legal issues again. In the USA less than 1% of us are handicapped, but until the law was created to protect our rights, we had no legal rights to be able to get into government buildings, or places to cast our votes. Our schools did not have to have wheelchair access, thus if you were in a wheelchair, you may not be able to get into the building or go to the floor where the class is held. It is against the law to deny the rights of a minority. Linux users are part of the OS minority. In the later 1880's to the 1930's and later, any Big business company that controlled a market and used that control to stop other businesses from being a part of that market, got chopped up. Big Standard Oil was chopped up, and much later ATT got chopped up into smaller companies - BY LAW. MS is in the same boat, but due to loopholes and big money to those with power in the government, MS was not required to be broken up. So they control 99% of the market [they say], and now that are telling the OEMs that if you want to sell your products in that market, you must do things our way. What is next? MS using their market control to tell other markets leaders that if you do not do it our way, we will make sure your company will not get our products ever again? MS controlled cars? MS controlled telecom? MS controlled Internet? Oh wait, Linux systems run the Internet. If MS is allowed to force OEMs to do it their way or not allowed to be in that market, then what else will they force on us down the line. I want my PC running Linux now. If I buy a system with Win 8 installed and decide that I would rather have Linux on that PC, then I legally have the right to have that option without MS telling me I cannot. MS is slowly loosing market shares in the PC market [non-Mac systems]. It is not much, but it is there. They are slowing loosing users to OOo and now LO. If they can make a hardware security system that stops Linux to work on those machine, will they be able to do the same for non-MS software, like LO and other open source software? What is stopping them? Not the law and our courts. Their fines are pocket money. Put MS leadership in jail for a few years, then maybe they will stop breaking our laws. On 10/19/2011 04:42 PM, Robert Ryley wrote: I suspect the workarounds will include capturing all the needed keys, reflashing the bios/uefi chip, and installing what you want. It is a PITA, but not insurmountable. It will probably spur more open hardware, to the detriment of those determined to lock down the system. MS aside, uefi is a good idea. This particular implementation is not. On Oct 19, 2011 12:12 PM, Ian Lynchianrly...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 October 2011 16:59, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: Please read the linked article. [below] If Microsoft get... I should think that is illegal under competition law. To me, if MS get away with forcing OEMs to make it so their systems cannot run Linux, then it is ... We can buy
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] MS plans to force OEMs to add boot feature that blocks use of Linux and free software.
Quote: If they can make a hardware security system that stops Linux to work on those machine, will they be able to do the same for non-MS software, like LO and other open source software? What is stopping them? Not the law and our courts. Their fines are pocket money. Put MS leadership in jail for a few years, then maybe they will stop breaking our laws. If you think the politicians or judges are going to protect you, I suggest you simply look at their acts to disabuse yourself of that notion. There is no doubt that the secure boot could be abused by MS. The feature itself, isn't really a bad idea. Trusted components should not be easy to modify, and will make it more difficult for malware writers and computer criminals to subvert systems. The key question to ask is Trusted by whom? Clearly, trusted by the owner/purchaser of the system, of course! But the big business types just don't see it that way. Fortunately as long as you have access to the hardware, there will always be work arounds. The UEFI is saved in a flash memory chip. It can be reprogrammed, with an open UEFI implementation that is more user friendly. I suspect this is what will ultimately happen, in the worst case scenario. Intel already has an open source UEFI project underway. How long do you think it would be before the code is modified to make setting up a dual boot system easier? Intel UEFI project http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/tianocore/index.php?title=Welcome -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
