Re: [libreoffice-marketing] My new slogan.

[Telesto]

reversal will occur (which likely will overshoot again). However, it's

hard to predict the future. Those trends are really. So more in terms of
10-20 years from now. Or maybe it doesn't happen after all? Time will tell.

Didn't read every word, but interesting enough. Thanks.


My messages not intended to be thoroughly :P. It's more some unpolished 
thoughts coming to mind.



  And/so maybe in
the end it is a matter of philosophy and intention?

That's pretty good summary (why didn't I think of it myself ;- ).

--

You may advocate open source system, promote it. However please don’t 
make it a (flame) war/battle. Inf frame of allies and enemies. With good 
and bad believes.
Take any religious clash from history in attempt to ‘convert’ people. 
Never worked, will not work. And lots of causality's. And waste of 
resources. And it even pretty trivial. Why is it necessary that 
everybody in the whole world has the same believe.


However I hope there is some mutual understanding within the open 
source/closed source community (including users) about the importance 
and benefits of open standards. Open standard should obviously being 
kind setup like open source.


I could even think of .dll plugins response for writing the open 
standard (say ODT).  To prevent different interpretations or 
implementation mistakes. Obviously open source too.
Another option is that the homegrown export filter code belonging to 
closed source apps regarding open standard being open source; simply to 
check for implementation errors.


The latter will likely be more problematic as it probably gives insight 
in the internal design (and says something about coding quality). So 
model must be found. Maybe kind of system MS uses for getting peeks into 
their source code. So a kind of permission basis; without high bars.


The biggest risk is closed source using open source without 
contributing. Contributing can take different forms. In development 
time/expertise or say license payment. Else your able to commercialize a 
package of open source components and price it as if you developed 
everything yourself. Not paying the fair share. Or kind of free ride 
mentality and I would call it intellectual theft.


And everybody using open source projects for free is issue regarding 
continuity and sustainability. And only being mentioned in the credits, 
is a lovely symbolic gesture but ultimately everything we want money (or 
other stuff which can be quantified in money)


But that’s creates the dilemma. The open source makes really hard to 
enforce contributions of co-developers/ company’s making use of open 
source without contributing their fair share. Code is open in the 
public; with barely strings attached. It’s the power of open source, but 
also the Achilles heel.


Cheers,
Telesto


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] My new slogan.

[Telesto]

Op 30-4-2021 om 23:04 schreef Drew Jensen:

Howdy,

I like that slogan.

Met me add another which I've used lately and kind of like:
"LibreOffice; Come for the software - Stay for the community!"

Interesting slogan proposal. If it resonates, no clue.

Personal history. I didn't have any interest in a community when looking 
LibreOffice up. I simply searched for free (as in free beer) Office 
Suite for my Mac.

My Mac was expensive enough.

I surely wouldn't have gotten in touch with the Community either. It's 
only because I got kind of frustrated by some bug.
Which didn't get by itself (waited maybe 6 months). And later on some 
e-mail from from - I think - Steve -_-


So really stumbled into being here. Having plenty of free time often 
enough and affinity with software (and to some extend bugs), I kept going.
And well at some point one of your report fixed :P. Which kind of 
addictive. Waiting for a bibisect taking ages, so you try to do it yourself.
Before you now you're around for 5 years or so. However not because I'm 
into a tight relationship with LibreOffice Community per se.


Nor having a some strong believe regarding to open source. Any software 
which fits my specifications will do. Free is obviously nicer compared 
paid.
And if it's paid it's all about price/quality ratio (and amount of use). 
Surely asked myself number of times should I simply buy a 
(non-LibreOffice based) Office Suite.
It's more that tolerance for bugs going up if it's free. I'm not an true 
user of LibreOffice (or any Office Suite) at all. Using LibreOffice more 
for fun bughunting sessions.


Cheers,
Telesto


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] My new slogan.

[Drew Jensen]

On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 6:09 AM Clocked Modular  wrote:
>
> About owning your own data,
> "Open Source or Open Windows"?
> That is the question!

Howdy,

I like that slogan.

Met me add another which I've used lately and kind of like:
"LibreOffice; Come for the software - Stay for the community!"

On a somewhat related point:
I note that lately on Twitter a few accounts are starting to use the
hashtag #LibreOffieTechnology which I think is a good idea.

Best wishes,

Drew
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] My new slogan.

[Cor Nouws]

Telesto wrote on 27/04/2021 12:35:
> Your losing me already ;-).

Same here ;)

> ...
> reversal will occur (which likely will overshoot again). However, it's
> hard to predict the future. Those trends are really. So more in terms of
> 10-20 years from now. Or maybe it doesn't happen after all? Time will tell.

Didn't read every word, but interesting enough. Thanks. And/so maybe in
the end it is a matter of philosophy and intention?

Cor

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] My new slogan.

[Telesto]

Your losing me already ;-).

I'm already struggling what 'open source' entails. It's a fuzzy concept 
to me. It's even a term hijacked by marketing. There are currently 
multiple variants and concepts around 'open source'. There as many 
interpretations as we have religions (probably even more). Say reading 
open source literally en figuratively. Is OnlyOffice true open source? 
And we have 'open core'. Or closed core open the rest (SpringMail in the 
past). And surely not seeing that Open Source being the utopia/ 
Walhalla. Every approach having it's pro's and cons . This kind of topic 
is say non-topic for closed source: 
https://lore.kernel.org/linux-nfs/YH/fM/tsbmczz...@kroah.com/ So open 
source isn't without flaws either.


I personally do like "open source' in literally way. So components can 
be re-used and you can can learn how problems are tackled (for you're 
own implementation). Have seen enough projects - sorry also closed 
source - existing because of open source components. Without those 
components those projects where not feasible in economic sense. 
Technically it could be home build but would cost to much effort; large 
prior investment. Making product price far to high. Same holds true for 
buying pre-build closed source components.


Being 'open source' - in sense of public source code isn't everything. 
Big part is code reading skills. Well you can read the code, but true 
understanding takes lots of time.  So the whole open source topic is 
actually more domain for developers. And how big part of the world 
population being developer? Obviously software products of developers 
are affecting the whole world, because of the usage of the stuff 
software developers build. But well the source code that's not a topic 
what the end-user keeps awake at night.

Everybody wants to get the job done.

And well open source can fail to. Chromium has big potential for 
disaster: we are getting pretty much a mono-culture (one browser engine, 
one design and all browser developers aggregated around same place). Not 
much room for different voices or doing it differently.
Yes, forks are open. But well before you have a reputation for new 
browser engine.  And well Chromium is more or less defining the 
standards in this case (about being dominant).  Which has also it's good 
side of 'dropping' legacy security flawed stuff. And creating momentum 
for software changes in company (still relaying on very old security 
flawed systems). But in the long run this can/will backfire.


The Linux community kind of lacking 'stability'. How many different 
distro's have been on the top of Distrowatch in the 20 years. The user 
must constantly adapt to something else (different concepts etc) as your 
favorite distro making less optimal choices, goes bust, or developers 
running away to something more 'cool' (so development progress gets a 
hit). It's always touch an go. Whereas Microsoft being pretty old stable 
company and still alive and kicking. Yes, pretty dominant entity; 
setting standards. Having enough practices you can disagree with.  And 
surely has its (big) flaws in technical sense, but still getting away 
with that commercially.


And money - or even wider economic - plays a big role even in the open 
source community. You need financial stability to actually do something. 
You need to have a model to make money. And open source doesn't make the 
business model easier. If you key capital is the 'code' and put that 
online for free.  Mozilla is tied to Google search engine revenue 
(dependency) . LibreOffice tied to the eco-system partners. And those 
eco-system partners still having issues with their business model. Read: 
LibreOffice is cannibalizing on their products. And people are more 
interested functional software (even SaaS). Not some kind get product 
for free with bug fixing agreement for the issue which appear. Where you 
can't estimate the costs this way. You want to pay fixed price in 
advance which includes bugfixes (in general). That obviously exceptions. 
Additional special contracts for priority bugfixes and/ or features 
something else.


The only thing private part of "open source" and code knowledge 
(documentation is mostly so, so) . There only few people with true 
knowledge. Even at LibreOffice. Only one person working on scheduler in 
recent years. And the writer layout code (including track & changes) is 
also more or less domain of single developer. Skia the same. From risk 
management quite interesting. What would happen one of those developers 
suddenly stop? Would the gap be filled. And what if 3 developers would 
quite. How would affect the development progress and bug fixing. How 
sustainable would the eco-system be? Theoretically/ technically 
everybody could look into it, but you need lots and lots of tacit 
knowledge to truly change something. Something the old guard has.
There plenty of abandoned projects on GitHub/ sourceforge. Everybody can 
continue, fork and so 

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] My new slogan.

[Mapuche Tribu]

Hi, I don't know; If the question is: "Use proprietary or free software?
For me it is: What happens to the data when a private or free software and
what do they do with it? Policies, governance, sovereignty.

En todo caso, Éxitos.  (y)

El sáb, 24 de abr. de 2021 a la(s) 05:09, Clocked Modular (bo...@clocked.eu)
escribió:

> About owning your own data,
> "Open Source or Open Windows"?
> That is the question!
>
>
> Met vriendelijke groet,
> With kind regards,
> Boudi van Vlijmen.
>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] My new slogan.

[toki]

On 24/04/2021 10:08, Clocked Modular wrote:

About owning your own data,
"Open Source or Open Windows"?
That is the question!


Pray that I do not further alter the deal.

jonathon

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] My new slogan.

[Nigel Verity]

Hi Boudi

It is a good catchy slogan but I've a feeling it may only really "work" with 
open source insiders. I think that the irony of "Open Windows" will be lost on 
people who know little or nothing about the benefits of open source vs 
proprietary software.

Nige

 LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice 
Website<https://www.libreoffice.org>
 Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data


From: Cor Nouws 
Sent: 24 April 2021 12:06
To: Clocked Modular ; Marketing 

Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] My new slogan.

Clocked Modular wrote on 24/04/2021 12:08:
> About owning your own data,
> "Open Source or Open Windows"?
> That is the question!

A nice one, Boudi ;)

Cheers,
Cor

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] My new slogan.

[Cor Nouws]

Clocked Modular wrote on 24/04/2021 12:08:
> About owning your own data,
> "Open Source or Open Windows"?
> That is the question!

A nice one, Boudi ;)

Cheers,
Cor

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[libreoffice-marketing] My new slogan.

[Clocked Modular]

About owning your own data,
"Open Source or Open Windows"?
That is the question!


Met vriendelijke groet,
With kind regards,
Boudi van Vlijmen.

*Because email is an old and insecure first generation internet protocol we
will, **in time,  stop** to use email. If you want to contact us and are
not known with us, you can use the web contact form
.
If you are known with us you can use our signal account
 or* RCS
 *to chat, or we
share an cloud environment.*
===
Omdat e-mail een oud en onveilig internetprotocol van de eerste generatie
is, zullen we op termijn stoppen met het gebruik van e-mail. Als u contact
met ons wilt opnemen en niet bij ons bekend bent, kunt u het
contactformulier

gebruiken. Als u bij ons bekend bent, kunt u ons signal
-account of RCS
 gebruiken om te
chatten, of we delen een uitwisseling omgeving.

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=
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