Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
Robert Ryley wrote (14-09-11 22:57) This is precisely information that is not documented at the moment, and - indeed - some aspects are still probably in evolution. Only the project's leading devs could really give you a satisfactory answer. But, certainly, the lack of developer documentation is something that is a real brake to people wanting to ease themselves into a position of being able to hack code for the project. AFAIK, a lot of the Java is being replaced with Perl. This is a very disappointing development. You react on an assumption from David and Robert, who state they not know exactly what is going to happen. From what I saw at the developer list, there will only be some replacement of Java in the wizards, if possible. The developers will not choose to make the life harder. Change in API is no affect of (possible) replacement of parts of java code. -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
David, Thanks for the info. I'll do that. I'm already downloading the api's so I can access them when not online. Robert -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
Hi Robert, On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:57 PM, Robert Ryley wrote: >> This is precisely information that is not documented at the moment, >> and - indeed - some aspects are still probably in evolution. Only the >> project's leading devs could really give you a satisfactory answer. >> >> But, certainly, the lack of developer documentation is something that >> is a real brake to people wanting to ease themselves into a position >> of being able to hack code for the project. AFAIK, a lot of the Java >> is being replaced with Perl. > > This is a very disappointing development. > > Perl is going to be MUCH harder to maintain than java. I recall the > joke "A programmer had a problem. He decided to use perl. The > programmer then had two problems." > > I don't want to get too involved in the technical details here. But > perhaps you could tell me how solid this decision is, and who to > discuss some of these issues with? You should not take anything I say as being 100% reliable, as I am not a coder. Here's one more resource that will certainly help you (again, there is insufficient awareness of its existence): http://api.libreoffice.org/ You can write to the devs mailing list, or chat with them on IRC. You can notably look out for Michael Meeks, Thorsten Behrens or Norbert Thiebaud to name just three guys off the top of my head. > Thanks. You're welcome. ;-) -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
> This is precisely information that is not documented at the moment, > and - indeed - some aspects are still probably in evolution. Only the > project's leading devs could really give you a satisfactory answer. > > But, certainly, the lack of developer documentation is something that > is a real brake to people wanting to ease themselves into a position > of being able to hack code for the project. AFAIK, a lot of the Java > is being replaced with Perl. This is a very disappointing development. Perl is going to be MUCH harder to maintain than java. I recall the joke "A programmer had a problem. He decided to use perl. The programmer then had two problems." I don't want to get too involved in the technical details here. But perhaps you could tell me how solid this decision is, and who to discuss some of these issues with? Thanks. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
Hi :) The issue about what to use instead of Java is something that would be good to discuss on the devs list and perhaps with other people that might have a better idea. Mostly it seems that java really wasn't needed and can be just written out comlpetely. At a guess that's not always going to work in Base. I was wondering if Gtk or Python or Ruby or C++ but i'm probably showing just how little i know about this type of thing just by saying that. Devs will have a far better idea of what is viable. Regards from Tom :) --- On Wed, 14/9/11, Robert Ryley wrote: From: Robert Ryley Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?) To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org Date: Wednesday, 14 September, 2011, 21:40 Hello David, Thanks for the info. I'm willing to do a few jobs, but I'm trying to wrap my head around the different aspects of the project. I am considering pitching the use of a customized version Libre Office, and hopefully they might be interested in funding some development. But that is all very preliminary. If there is a move away from java, that is going to make a significant portion of that documentation obsolete. Is there anything specifically related to the move away from java documented anywhere? Any idea what the API is going to be to replace it? Robert On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 4:34 PM, David Nelson wrote: > Hi Robert, > > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:19 PM, Robert Ryley >> Where can I find more info about this? > > Actually, Tom's been doing some very nice organizational work on the > docs team's wiki: > > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Tom Davies wrote: >> >> There is a guide for general programmers >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation#Other_Documentation_and_Resources >> but it probably completely misses some of the key curved balls that Base >> devs will have to dodge or use. Oh, and it was written for OOo > > And you can also browse the current content on > http://media.libreoffice.org (click the CMIS Repository link). > > You could also write to the docs team mailing list if you'd like to join us! > :-) > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-involved/documenters/ > > -- > David Nelson > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
Hi Robert, On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:40 PM, Robert Ryley wrote: > If there is a move away from java, that is going to make a significant > portion of that documentation obsolete. Is there anything > specifically related to the move away from java documented anywhere? > Any idea what the API is going to be to replace it? This is precisely information that is not documented at the moment, and - indeed - some aspects are still probably in evolution. Only the project's leading devs could really give you a satisfactory answer. But, certainly, the lack of developer documentation is something that is a real brake to people wanting to ease themselves into a position of being able to hack code for the project. AFAIK, a lot of the Java is being replaced with Perl. You have 2 resources that can help you familiarize yourself a little with the code base: http://docs.libreoffice.org/ This is some partial API documentation. And you've got: http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/ Powered by OpenGrok - "a wicked fast source browser!" This is a tool to search in the LibreOffice GIT repositories. For more info on getting into development, you can visit: http://www.libreoffice.org/get-involved/developers/ HTH at least a bit. :-) -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
Hello David, Thanks for the info. I'm willing to do a few jobs, but I'm trying to wrap my head around the different aspects of the project. I am considering pitching the use of a customized version Libre Office, and hopefully they might be interested in funding some development. But that is all very preliminary. If there is a move away from java, that is going to make a significant portion of that documentation obsolete. Is there anything specifically related to the move away from java documented anywhere? Any idea what the API is going to be to replace it? Robert On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 4:34 PM, David Nelson wrote: > Hi Robert, > > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:19 PM, Robert Ryley >> Where can I find more info about this? > > Actually, Tom's been doing some very nice organizational work on the > docs team's wiki: > > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Tom Davies wrote: >> >> There is a guide for general programmers >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation#Other_Documentation_and_Resources >> but it probably completely misses some of the key curved balls that Base >> devs will have to dodge or use. Oh, and it was written for OOo > > And you can also browse the current content on > http://media.libreoffice.org (click the CMIS Repository link). > > You could also write to the docs team mailing list if you'd like to join us! > :-) > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-involved/documenters/ > > -- > David Nelson > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
Hi Robert, On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:19 PM, Robert Ryley > Where can I find more info about this? Actually, Tom's been doing some very nice organizational work on the docs team's wiki: On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Tom Davies wrote: > > There is a guide for general programmers > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation#Other_Documentation_and_Resources > but it probably completely misses some of the key curved balls that Base devs > will have to dodge or use. Oh, and it was written for OOo And you can also browse the current content on http://media.libreoffice.org (click the CMIS Repository link). You could also write to the docs team mailing list if you'd like to join us! :-) http://www.libreoffice.org/get-involved/documenters/ -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
David, You wrote: > The reason for this is that a) the LibreOffice docs team has not had > time and resources to develop such documentation, and that - in any > case - the suite's software design has been evolving (move away from > Java), so it was not really the time to get into such an initiative. > Plus, user documentation has been seen as the primary need. Where can I find more info about this? Robert -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
Hi Tom, On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 10:08 PM, Tom Davies wrote: > I think we need to attract people to work on the documentation as well as the > code. > > Documentation is not as good as it could be because the Documentation Team > has not been able to really work at it. There are bits&pieces scattered > around the internet but unlike the other apps there is no guide that brings > it all together. I'm not sure what is meant by "professionals". Is this a > suggestion that we hire some paid staff or consultants to do the Base Guide? > If so then I would suggest paying Alex, Planas, Andreas, Regina or someone > like that as they already have experience with Base and are more likely to > have a clue what they are talking about than an outsider. Well, one thing we are lacking, in terms of documentation, is material that gives a general and/or a detailed overview of the technical design of the LibreOffice suite, which would allow potential contributors to get their head around how to jump in. AFAIK, you need some familiarity with the suite's architecture and design, or sufficient development experience to be able to figure it out for yourself, before you can envision hacking code for LibO. It's true that you might get some useful mentoring from the devs on IRC, and that there is also not-widely-known-about API documentation available at [1]. The reason for this is that a) the LibreOffice docs team has not had time and resources to develop such documentation, and that - in any case - the suite's software design has been evolving (move away from Java), so it was not really the time to get into such an initiative. Plus, user documentation has been seen as the primary need. But, in the medium term, we would indeed need to develop some software design documentation for the LibreOffice software. Now, who's to do it? And when? Difficult questions to answer, especially when the docs team is so short-handed in terms of contributors. And it would require close liaison with the devs. I'm not sure it's a problem that can be fixed simply by throwing money at it. Does TDF even have the resources and will to do so? Not sure about that either... However, Tom, in any case, you're basically right that documentation is one of the problems to be solved. [1] http://docs.libreoffice.org/ -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
Hi :) I think we need to attract people to work on the documentation as well as the code. Documentation is not as good as it could be because the Documentation Team has not been able to really work at it. There are bits&pieces scattered around the internet but unlike the other apps there is no guide that brings it all together. I'm not sure what is meant by "professionals". Is this a suggestion that we hire some paid staff or consultants to do the Base Guide? If so then I would suggest paying Alex, Planas, Andreas, Regina or someone like that as they already have experience with Base and are more likely to have a clue what they are talking about than an outsider. Regards from Tom :) --- On Wed, 14/9/11, Cor Nouws wrote: From: Cor Nouws Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?) To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org Date: Wednesday, 14 September, 2011, 19:19 webmaster for Kracked Press Productions wrote (14-09-11 03:39) > So we really need to get more people to learn Base and ways for other to > easily learn how to use it. People helping other people/business indeed carry the responsibility to make sure they are well equipped to do that job. This is of course more important, if you do professional services. Documentation is not as good as could be, but it can be done, especially by professionals. This is not the same however as attracting people to work on development of Base. -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
webmaster for Kracked Press Productions wrote (14-09-11 03:39) So we really need to get more people to learn Base and ways for other to easily learn how to use it. People helping other people/business indeed carry the responsibility to make sure they are well equipped to do that job. This is of course more important, if you do professional services. Documentation is not as good as could be, but it can be done, especially by professionals. This is not the same however as attracting people to work on development of Base. -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
Hi :) As people keep pointing out, Base is a front-end that can be used for a wide variety of back-ends (Dbs as you call them). There is a default Db/back-end for Base called HqSql but it's not great at the moment. A few people have suggested swapping out the default one for one of the others that Base can already use, perhaps SqlLite, or the massive MySql / MariaDb. (MariaDb is an excellent fork of MySql just as LO is an excellent fork of OOo). If you look at how many patches are submitted for Base then you will notice 2 things 1. There are only 1 or 2 people working on the code 2. The rate of new bug-reports is growing much faster than patches are being released 3. There are a dismayingly large number of bug-reports I have not looked myself but it's what i hear from other people that have looked. A lot of brainstorming needs to happen and this list is not really the best place for it because a lot of the issues have nothing to do with marketing. Another problem with trying to have this discussion on this list is that it excludes various people that are interested in Base and might have good ideas to put forwards. We need to start cross-posting this thread onto various other lists such as Documentation, Devs, perhaps UI or Design, Users and perhaps others. Regards from Tom :) --- On Wed, 14/9/11, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: From: Charles-H. Schulz Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?) To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org Date: Wednesday, 14 September, 2011, 14:05 Hello everyone, I'd like to contribute to the discussion in making two kinds of comments. Please bear on with me. I would like to make the first kind of comments in order to correct certain points that were made, because they would lead to factual mistakes or misunderstandings... A couple of points in particular: You cannot really integrate a QT app in LibreOffice, simply because the QT stack and the LibreOffice one are completely different. Packaging the two would probably not even make any sense. So we can't pick something we like and "integrate" it. (BTW: we tried that in the past with Thunderbird and Gecko. It was a BIG FAIL). Besides, we need to think in terms of front end and back-end as well here. The second point is about recruitment of developers. I hope that I'm not making myself a mistake in assuming that what is being understood is to actually hire developers... perhaps what is meant is attracting developers? In any case, we cannot mandate developers to work on something like we would do in a company. It's a big difference between a business and a FOSS community and project. Developers join by themselves, provided the information is there. That was for the first kind of comments; now, I'd like to open the discussion a bit more. I must admit I am myself very, very unclear on what we are trying to achieve with Base. And it's not just now, it's always been the case (for me, at least). Base was added to Openoffice.org as a new module and the whole experience was suboptimal. It did obviously feel a gap in the feature set, but it seems we've never really been able to compete with MS Access, and somehow we tried to achieve something different in the mean time. The result now is not that we have developers not doing anything on Base (in fact, we do). The result is that there are less resources on this because developers are simply less interested in acting on it, and there's nothing we can force them to do (or not do). Hence, one thing that might help -and this is very much a call for brainstorm, with the hope that we collect expectations about Base- is to gather feedback from users, see what we can understand from their use, or non-use of Base, and not being afraid to ask some real questions. As an example: should Base be scrapped off? Should we use it as a front end to another DB? should we try to compete with Access? Should it be geared towards a more complete usage (read: integrated as a front end to enterprise DB); is it enough to squash the reported bugs on Base? etc. After that survey we can a) analyze the results b) take action in two forms: suggestions to the broader community (devs included) or writing a set of RFEs (Request For Enhancement). RFEs are something developers can work with. You may call them hacks, but the point is this; you describe in technical and functional terms, step by step, what a feature should be. Not just "It should be able to compete with Access" or "it should be red". But rather: "description of feature, rationale, behaviour, usage scenario, etc.". Hope this helps, and sorry for the long email. best, Charles. Le 14/09/2011 14:41, Tom Davies a écrit : > Hi :) > > Yes, indeed. And for that we need documentation on Base. Devs are likely to > need documentation in order
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
Hello everyone, I'd like to contribute to the discussion in making two kinds of comments. Please bear on with me. I would like to make the first kind of comments in order to correct certain points that were made, because they would lead to factual mistakes or misunderstandings... A couple of points in particular: You cannot really integrate a QT app in LibreOffice, simply because the QT stack and the LibreOffice one are completely different. Packaging the two would probably not even make any sense. So we can't pick something we like and "integrate" it. (BTW: we tried that in the past with Thunderbird and Gecko. It was a BIG FAIL). Besides, we need to think in terms of front end and back-end as well here. The second point is about recruitment of developers. I hope that I'm not making myself a mistake in assuming that what is being understood is to actually hire developers... perhaps what is meant is attracting developers? In any case, we cannot mandate developers to work on something like we would do in a company. It's a big difference between a business and a FOSS community and project. Developers join by themselves, provided the information is there. That was for the first kind of comments; now, I'd like to open the discussion a bit more. I must admit I am myself very, very unclear on what we are trying to achieve with Base. And it's not just now, it's always been the case (for me, at least). Base was added to Openoffice.org as a new module and the whole experience was suboptimal. It did obviously feel a gap in the feature set, but it seems we've never really been able to compete with MS Access, and somehow we tried to achieve something different in the mean time. The result now is not that we have developers not doing anything on Base (in fact, we do). The result is that there are less resources on this because developers are simply less interested in acting on it, and there's nothing we can force them to do (or not do). Hence, one thing that might help -and this is very much a call for brainstorm, with the hope that we collect expectations about Base- is to gather feedback from users, see what we can understand from their use, or non-use of Base, and not being afraid to ask some real questions. As an example: should Base be scrapped off? Should we use it as a front end to another DB? should we try to compete with Access? Should it be geared towards a more complete usage (read: integrated as a front end to enterprise DB); is it enough to squash the reported bugs on Base? etc. After that survey we can a) analyze the results b) take action in two forms: suggestions to the broader community (devs included) or writing a set of RFEs (Request For Enhancement). RFEs are something developers can work with. You may call them hacks, but the point is this; you describe in technical and functional terms, step by step, what a feature should be. Not just "It should be able to compete with Access" or "it should be red". But rather: "description of feature, rationale, behaviour, usage scenario, etc.". Hope this helps, and sorry for the long email. best, Charles. Le 14/09/2011 14:41, Tom Davies a écrit : > Hi :) > > Yes, indeed. And for that we need documentation on Base. Devs are likely to > need documentation in order to understand how it should be working in order > to do serious work on it but the documentation can't be written until devs > start clearing the bugs! It's a "Chicken & egg" problem. > > Regards from > Tom :) > > > --- On Wed, 14/9/11, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions > wrote: > > From: webmaster for Kracked Press Productions > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: > [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?) > To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org > Date: Wednesday, 14 September, 2011, 2:39 > > On 09/13/2011 04:50 PM, Cor Nouws wrote: >> Hi David, all, >> >> David Nelson wrote (13-09-11 09:05) >> >>> As a general thing in the LibreOffice project, I think we need to >>> think seriously about a determined recruitment drive, for Base and for >>> various other areas of the project. Just waiting for people to >>> volunteer does not seem to be enough to cater to our needs for >>> contributors. >>> >>> Marketing guys, can you give this consideration? >> >> Looks a good idea to me. >> >> The goal is to make it attractive for developers, isn't it? >> Of course those people are not attracted by a just mail base list for their >> own. They can be attracted when the work is considered cool, technology wise >> interesting, some area they user for themselves, maybe important. At least, >> that is my first thought. >> So we should t
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
Hi :) Yes, indeed. And for that we need documentation on Base. Devs are likely to need documentation in order to understand how it should be working in order to do serious work on it but the documentation can't be written until devs start clearing the bugs! It's a "Chicken & egg" problem. Regards from Tom :) --- On Wed, 14/9/11, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions wrote: From: webmaster for Kracked Press Productions Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?) To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org Date: Wednesday, 14 September, 2011, 2:39 On 09/13/2011 04:50 PM, Cor Nouws wrote: > Hi David, all, > > David Nelson wrote (13-09-11 09:05) > >> As a general thing in the LibreOffice project, I think we need to >> think seriously about a determined recruitment drive, for Base and for >> various other areas of the project. Just waiting for people to >> volunteer does not seem to be enough to cater to our needs for >> contributors. >> >> Marketing guys, can you give this consideration? > > Looks a good idea to me. > > The goal is to make it attractive for developers, isn't it? > Of course those people are not attracted by a just mail base list for their > own. They can be attracted when the work is considered cool, technology wise > interesting, some area they user for themselves, maybe important. At least, > that is my first thought. > So we should think about bringing that message across. > Correct? > > Cheers, > If we had more documentation for and people who really knows Base, it would be easier to "sell" LO to some businesses. I know a user that I had to add Office 2003 to his system since that was a deal breaker. He has all of the books and modeling work in data base formats and cannot "live" without Access. He created those DBs with MSO 97 and did not upgrade to MSO 2003 until he switched computers and could not find the install CD for '97. So unless LO can easily use Access files and reports and forms he created over the years, he will not go to LO, even thought he likes the idea behind LO and FOSS. So we really need to get more people to learn Base and ways for other to easily learn how to use it. Any ideas that helps that goal is greatly needed for my group of business users that need databases in their small businesses. That is the onlly real thing stopping them from switching over completely. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
Hi, No doubt, it would be good to have more developers as well as documenters working on Base to make it a mature component, but... Am 14.09.2011 03:39, schrieb webmaster for Kracked Press Productions: > ... So unless LO can easily > use Access files and reports and forms he created over the years, he > will not go to LO AFAIK, Base was never meant as and will never be a replacement for MS Access. Architecture and concepts are too different. We should not raise wrong expectations. Stefan -- LibreOffice - Die Freiheit nehm' ich mir! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
On 09/13/2011 04:50 PM, Cor Nouws wrote: Hi David, all, David Nelson wrote (13-09-11 09:05) As a general thing in the LibreOffice project, I think we need to think seriously about a determined recruitment drive, for Base and for various other areas of the project. Just waiting for people to volunteer does not seem to be enough to cater to our needs for contributors. Marketing guys, can you give this consideration? Looks a good idea to me. The goal is to make it attractive for developers, isn't it? Of course those people are not attracted by a just mail base list for their own. They can be attracted when the work is considered cool, technology wise interesting, some area they user for themselves, maybe important. At least, that is my first thought. So we should think about bringing that message across. Correct? Cheers, If we had more documentation for and people who really knows Base, it would be easier to "sell" LO to some businesses. I know a user that I had to add Office 2003 to his system since that was a deal breaker. He has all of the books and modeling work in data base formats and cannot "live" without Access. He created those DBs with MSO 97 and did not upgrade to MSO 2003 until he switched computers and could not find the install CD for '97. So unless LO can easily use Access files and reports and forms he created over the years, he will not go to LO, even thought he likes the idea behind LO and FOSS. So we really need to get more people to learn Base and ways for other to easily learn how to use it. Any ideas that helps that goal is greatly needed for my group of business users that need databases in their small businesses. That is the onlly real thing stopping them from switching over completely. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Recruitment for Base (Was Re: [steering-discuss] Base - a new mailing list?)
Hi David, all, David Nelson wrote (13-09-11 09:05) As a general thing in the LibreOffice project, I think we need to think seriously about a determined recruitment drive, for Base and for various other areas of the project. Just waiting for people to volunteer does not seem to be enough to cater to our needs for contributors. Marketing guys, can you give this consideration? Looks a good idea to me. The goal is to make it attractive for developers, isn't it? Of course those people are not attracted by a just mail base list for their own. They can be attracted when the work is considered cool, technology wise interesting, some area they user for themselves, maybe important. At least, that is my first thought. So we should think about bringing that message across. Correct? Cheers, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
