fedora-logo and fedora-themes discussions
Hello, everyone, I would like to invite you to these two particular discussions: 1) gnome-shell extension that adds a Fedora logo http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2011-April/004233.html 2) customization of themes and colors in gnome 3 desktop in Fedora 15 http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2011-April/007130.html I think that these topics are important for promoting Fedora 15 to end-users and Fedora Marketing Team should be involved. -- Best regards, Aleksandra Fedorova. -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: fedora-logo and fedora-themes discussions
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Aleksandra Bookwar ad...@bookwar.infowrote: Hello, everyone, I would like to invite you to these two particular discussions: 1) gnome-shell extension that adds a Fedora logo http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2011-April/004233.html Good call. Thanks for that! Fab -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: fedora-logo and fedora-themes discussions
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 3:59 AM, Fabian A. Scherschel f...@sixgun.org wrote: On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Aleksandra Bookwar ad...@bookwar.info wrote: Hello, everyone, I would like to invite you to these two particular discussions: 1) gnome-shell extension that adds a Fedora logo http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2011-April/004233.html Good call. Thanks for that! Fab I am pondering, and will have a response at some point later today. Of course, anyone else is free to interject with their thoughts as well :) -Robyn -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: fedora-logo and fedora-themes discussions
On 04/15/2011 04:26 PM, Aleksandra Bookwar wrote: Hello, everyone, I would like to invite you to these two particular discussions: 1) gnome-shell extension that adds a Fedora logo http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2011-April/004233.html Using the extension for a few days now and I am not convinced it should be the default. The panel is a black one with monochromatic icons and the Fedora logo attracts a lot of attention and while I initially thought it would serve the purpose of branding really well, it turns out to be distracting for me considering the rather subdued design of the shell which emphasises the use of colors for things that really do need immediate attention like the battery getting drained or whatever. https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Whiteboards/SymbolicIcons/ If we decide to go with this, I would suggest using the monochromatic variant of the logo as well http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo/UsageGuidelines#Greyscale_Logo 2) customization of themes and colors in gnome 3 desktop in Fedora 15 http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2011-April/007130.html I think that these topics are important for promoting Fedora 15 to end-users and Fedora Marketing Team should be involved. If GNOME Shell has no support for changing these without extensions, I am not sure what marketing can say about that.Can you clarify what you are asking here? It's important to understand the difference between marketing in a traditional software environment and in a open source project. In a traditional environment, marketing goes to customers or end users, gathers data and provides input on what engineering should focus on and a sub division responsible for branding decides how products how should be branded however in a open source project, marketing is usually focused on promoting what developers come up with and while this isn't the ideal situation, in a open community, we can merely influence but not dictate. Rahul -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: fedora-logo and fedora-themes discussions
2) customization of themes and colors in gnome 3 desktop in Fedora 15 http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2011-April/007130.html I think that these topics are important for promoting Fedora 15 to end-users and Fedora Marketing Team should be involved. If GNOME Shell has no support for changing these without extensions, I am not sure what marketing can say about that. Can you clarify what you are asking here? It's important to understand the difference between marketing in a traditional software environment and in a open source project. In a traditional environment, marketing goes to customers or end users, gathers data and provides input on what engineering should focus on and a sub division responsible for branding decides how products how should be branded however in a open source project, marketing is usually focused on promoting what developers come up with and while this isn't the ideal situation, in a open community, we can merely influence but not dictate. As I wrote in the cited mail to desktop@, Gnome-Shell does have tools for desktop customization. And they are almost ready to be available in Fedora repos. The idea of my post is not to change anything deep in the code or development ways, but to change slightly the priority of some bugs and packages. Fedora 15 release can step a little bit aside from straightforward use what we gave you Gnome approach and give more to the user just by shipping good-quality gnome-tweak-tool and gnome-shell-extensions-user-theme packages by default. And this is the thing I thought Marketing Team could help with. Of course I don't want you to dictate anything, but to help with finding the ways to convince responsible people, to provide better arguments and to work on the right solution. -- Best regards, Aleksandra Bookwar -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: fedora-logo and fedora-themes discussions
We could always tone the logo down a bit. Make it monochrome as you suggest or even slightly transparent... Fab On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Rahul Sundaram methe...@gmail.com wrote: On 04/15/2011 04:26 PM, Aleksandra Bookwar wrote: Hello, everyone, I would like to invite you to these two particular discussions: 1) gnome-shell extension that adds a Fedora logo http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2011-April/004233.html Using the extension for a few days now and I am not convinced it should be the default. The panel is a black one with monochromatic icons and the Fedora logo attracts a lot of attention and while I initially thought it would serve the purpose of branding really well, it turns out to be distracting for me considering the rather subdued design of the shell which emphasises the use of colors for things that really do need immediate attention like the battery getting drained or whatever. https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Whiteboards/SymbolicIcons/ If we decide to go with this, I would suggest using the monochromatic variant of the logo as well http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo/UsageGuidelines#Greyscale_Logo 2) customization of themes and colors in gnome 3 desktop in Fedora 15 http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2011-April/007130.html I think that these topics are important for promoting Fedora 15 to end-users and Fedora Marketing Team should be involved. If GNOME Shell has no support for changing these without extensions, I am not sure what marketing can say about that.Can you clarify what you are asking here? It's important to understand the difference between marketing in a traditional software environment and in a open source project. In a traditional environment, marketing goes to customers or end users, gathers data and provides input on what engineering should focus on and a sub division responsible for branding decides how products how should be branded however in a open source project, marketing is usually focused on promoting what developers come up with and while this isn't the ideal situation, in a open community, we can merely influence but not dictate. Rahul -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: fedora-logo and fedora-themes discussions
On 04/15/2011 07:06 PM, Aleksandra Bookwar wrote: Fedora 15 release can step a little bit aside from straightforward use what we gave you Gnome approach and give more to the user just by shipping good-quality gnome-tweak-tool and gnome-shell-extensions-user-theme packages by default. And this is the thing I thought Marketing Team could help with. Of course I don't want you to dictate anything, but to help with finding the ways to convince responsible people, to provide better arguments and to work on the right solution. As the person who maintains GNOME Shell Extensions package in Fedora and did help with GNOME Tweak Tool, I wouldn't recommend installing extensions or tweak tool by default. Extensions don't have a stable API and if things break which they do, you will likely be left without a way to even login to your system and tweak tool has a number of niggling bugs (see GNOME bugzilla for details).For example, if you use GNOME Tweak tool to install a theme, the revert button doesn't work nor does it show the current theme. Maybe things will stabilize in the future but for now, I am all for just for concentrating on the basics. Rahul -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: fedora-logo and fedora-themes discussions
My point is: every user of current Gnome 3 installs gnome-tweak-tool. Instead of closing your eyes on this fact and saying things like if they want to brake their desktop, we don't care as Gnome developers do, we have to admit this fact. It is happening right now here in Fedora 15. Yes, this package has its problems, and i don't expect all of them to be solved before release date. But there is still time to improve it before release, and there are people who work on this improvement. All they need is some respect and attention from authorities and a little bit of help from Gnome developers. And i am asking the leaders of Fedora community and people responsible for release of F15 first of all to admit that customizing the gnome-desktop is the real and important problem which needs some solution. Not the something these stupid users always cry about, the real one, which affects the Fedora future. Second, yes, we need some solutions. From my side the possible solution is to provide as much info as i could for end-users. And I do my best. But I am only ordinary user. And I am sure community could do more. Let's work on it. Like those guys who put the patch for relocating gnome-shell themes to upstream. Small patch which allows theme packaging and installing throw normal Add/Remove Software interface and which is not yet accepted. I think these bugs need promotion. And since I can't promote any such bugs by myself only, I am asking for help. -- Best regards, Aleksandra Bookwar -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: fedora-logo and fedora-themes discussions
On 04/15/2011 08:08 PM, Aleksandra Bookwar wrote: Yes, this package has its problems, and i don't expect all of them to be solved before release date. But there is still time to improve it before release, and there are people who work on this improvement. All they need is some respect and attention from authorities and a little bit of help from Gnome developers. Have you talked to GNOME Tweak tool maintainer to see if he finds the idea of the tool being installed by default appealing? The problem with pushing such things into the default package set is not merely the fragility or bugs in the tools themselves but the fact that these expose options that haven't been tested well if at all. Again, do take a look at bugzilla to see what I am talking about. We are well past the beta release point to be advocating for these sort of changes. I remain opposed to pretty much any change other than bug fixes at this point. Rahul -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: fedora-logo and fedora-themes discussions
On 04/15/2011 05:43 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 04/15/2011 08:08 PM, Aleksandra Bookwar wrote: Yes, this package has its problems, and i don't expect all of them to be solved before release date. But there is still time to improve it before release, and there are people who work on this improvement. All they need is some respect and attention from authorities and a little bit of help from Gnome developers. Have you talked to GNOME Tweak tool maintainer to see if he finds the idea of the tool being installed by default appealing? The problem with pushing such things into the default package set is not merely the fragility or bugs in the tools themselves but the fact that these expose options that haven't been tested well if at all. Again, do take a look at bugzilla to see what I am talking about. We are well past the beta release point to be advocating for these sort of changes. I remain opposed to pretty much any change other than bug fixes at this point. Then maybe we should revert Fedora 15 to some sane, less buggy, solution as a default? -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/ -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: fedora-logo and fedora-themes discussions
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 04:38:29PM +0200, Aleksandra Bookwar wrote: My point is: every user of current Gnome 3 installs gnome-tweak-tool. Instead of closing your eyes on this fact and saying things like if they want to brake their desktop, we don't care as Gnome developers do, we have to admit this fact. It is happening right now here in Fedora 15. It sounds like you're basing this assertion on your own preferences. I installed this tool to see what it did after reading your previous messages on the Design list, and hadn't used it previously. I also removed it when I was done because I didn't find it useful. Note I'm not saying it *isn't* useful to some people. But asserting universals without any proof isn't going to give your argument more weight. -- Paul W. Frieldshttp://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ Red Hat Summit/JBossWorld -- Register now! http://.theredhatsummit.com -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: fedora-logo and fedora-themes discussions
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 05:52:35PM +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote: On 04/15/2011 05:38 PM, Aleksandra Bookwar wrote: And i am asking the leaders of Fedora community and people responsible for release of F15 first of all to admit that customizing the gnome-desktop is the real and important problem which needs some solution. Not the something these stupid users always cry about, the real one, which affects the Fedora future. The real problem is the Desktop/Gnome/RHDT guys seem to be on a mission to destroy the Fedora identity: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2011-April/004265.html That's not what I get out of that message at all. In fact, Matthias clearly states the intention is not Fedora specific. Let's not use this list as yet another place to carry on bashing people, when we should be observing the principles espoused by KDE, GNOME, and other FOSS communities: Assume good intentions. -- Paul W. Frieldshttp://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ Red Hat Summit/JBossWorld -- Register now! http://.theredhatsummit.com -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
