Re: The Inquirier on F17
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 08:29:30AM +0200, Gianluca Sforna wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Nicu Buculei nicu_fed...@nicubunu.ro wrote: But I think we all agree the linked article is really bad written and it would he useful to help those news sources to improve their reporting. In addition, I'd love to hear some sort of official word about the Fedora project serves as the proving ground for new features that eventually end up in the firm's Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) operating system part. I mean, is this a concept Red Hat is actively marketing? If so, as an ambassador I'd love to know it because I am constantly fighting against this Fedora is a beta (or worse) level package and its users are just Red Hat's guinea pigs attitude in press, blogs and users of other distros. If that's not true, it would be really useful to have some words from a @redhat spokesperson to back a different point of view on the Red Hat/Fedora relationship There's a big difference between Fedora is a beta and users are guinea pigs, and Fedora is a place where *any contributor* can work on new technical features and put them in front of millions of users as part of a free and open source software development process. Red Hat is only part of our community and we've had plenty of other contributors over the years put new software into the distribution for people to use. Being the proving ground for new technology that might be in a future RHEL release is only one function of the Fedora Project. Of course that function is quite important to Red Hat, and a reason why Red Hat continues to put substantail resources into Fedora. But it's not the only thing the Fedora Project does, and as you know lots of contributors have their own reasons to participate as well. Another way to think about it is like this... Any dedicated contributor has the potential to contribute features and technology to integrate into Fedora the distribution, just like Red Hat does. It just so happens that Red Hat dedicates people, time, and money to that creation and integration effort, and as a result each release has lots of innovative new features. As the Fedora community (and indeed the wider FOSS community) essentially elects the best stuff over time, Red Hat can use that crowd wisdom to help decide what pieces make the most sense for its enterprise product. Any other contributor can do the same thing, at whatever scale makes sense for them. -- Paul W. Frieldshttp://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: The Inquirier on F17
On 05/31/2012 05:39 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 08:29:30AM +0200, Gianluca Sforna wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Nicu Buculeinicu_fed...@nicubunu.ro wrote: But I think we all agree the linked article is really bad written and it would he useful to help those news sources to improve their reporting. In addition, I'd love to hear some sort of official word about the Fedora project serves as the proving ground for new features that eventually end up in the firm's Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) operating system part. I mean, is this a concept Red Hat is actively marketing? If so, as an ambassador I'd love to know it because I am constantly fighting against this Fedora is a beta (or worse) level package and its users are just Red Hat's guinea pigs attitude in press, blogs and users of other distros. If that's not true, it would be really useful to have some words from a @redhat spokesperson to back a different point of view on the Red Hat/Fedora relationship There's a big difference between Fedora is a beta and users are guinea pigs, and Fedora is a place where *any contributor* can work on new technical features and put them in front of millions of users as part of a free and open source software development process. Red Hat is only part of our community and we've had plenty of other contributors over the years put new software into the distribution for people to use. Being the proving ground for new technology that might be in a future RHEL release is only one function of the Fedora Project. Of course that function is quite important to Red Hat, and a reason why Red Hat continues to put substantail resources into Fedora. But it's not the only thing the Fedora Project does, and as you know lots of contributors have their own reasons to participate as well. While there is, of course, a definition of proving ground (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proving_ground ) ... I have always thought of proving grounds as the place where car manufacturers put hundreds of thousands of miles on their new vehicles, really putting them through endurance testing and so forth. Paul pointed out that there may be some of that going on (not only by Red Hat, but by many people), but I think that the phrase really skips this detail: If you continue to use the metaphor, we're not simply driving cars in Fedora. We're inventing them, and designing them, and continually pushing that technology forward -- collaboratively, as a community. Another way to think about it is like this... Any dedicated contributor has the potential to contribute features and technology to integrate into Fedora the distribution, just like Red Hat does. It just so happens that Red Hat dedicates people, time, and money to that creation and integration effort, and as a result each release has lots of innovative new features. As the Fedora community (and indeed the wider FOSS community) essentially elects the best stuff over time, Red Hat can use that crowd wisdom to help decide what pieces make the most sense for its enterprise product. Any other contributor can do the same thing, at whatever scale makes sense for them. -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Fedora-Video Meeting
Hello, Next Fedora Videos meting time and date * Date: Friday , June 1 , 2012 * Time: 15:30 UTC (check [1] for your local time) * Location: #fedora-meeting Fedora-Videos wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Videos Meeting Agendas : 1.Final Review of Pre-Contest Tasks (contest -Video Write up) 2.Reivew Of [2] [3] Hope to see you there! [1] http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=1month=06year=2012hour=15min=30sec=0 [2] http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/videos/ [3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Video Regards Nitesh Narayan Lal https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Niteshnarayan -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: The Inquirier on F17
On 05/31/2012 12:39 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 08:29:30AM +0200, Gianluca Sforna wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Nicu Buculeinicu_fed...@nicubunu.ro wrote: But I think we all agree the linked article is really bad written and it would he useful to help those news sources to improve their reporting. In addition, I'd love to hear some sort of official word about the Fedora project serves as the proving ground for new features that eventually end up in the firm's Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) operating system part. I mean, is this a concept Red Hat is actively marketing? If so, as an ambassador I'd love to know it because I am constantly fighting against this Fedora is a beta (or worse) level package and its users are just Red Hat's guinea pigs attitude in press, blogs and users of other distros. If that's not true, it would be really useful to have some words from a @redhat spokesperson to back a different point of view on the Red Hat/Fedora relationship There's a big difference between Fedora is a beta and users are guinea pigs, and Fedora is a place where *any contributor* can work on new technical features and put them in front of millions of users as part of a free and open source software development process. Red Hat is only part of our community and we've had plenty of other contributors over the years put new software into the distribution for people to use. Being the proving ground for new technology that might be in a future RHEL release is only one function of the Fedora Project. Of course that function is quite important to Red Hat, and a reason why Red Hat continues to put substantail resources into Fedora. But it's not the only thing the Fedora Project does, and as you know lots of contributors have their own reasons to participate as well. Here we come to one of the core issues of Red Hat vs The Fedora community as in we ( the community ) do not view RHEL release being one function of the Fedora Project. Red Hat certainly believes it to be one of the function the project however we ( the community ) certainly don't nor should we as an project allow any sponsor Red Hat or otherwise have any influence either directly or indirectly of the project and it's direction. Another way to think about it is like this... Any dedicated contributor has the potential to contribute features and technology to integrate into Fedora the distribution, just like Red Hat does. It just so happens that Red Hat dedicates people, time, and money to that creation and integration effort, and as a result each release has lots of innovative new features. So in essence here you say that all innovation that happen in the project is all thanks to Red Hat and the community members time is worthless compared to the time and money Red Hat sponsor the project with. I would say that the above is a rather interesting response from a former project leader then again if memory serves me correct you actually did call Fedora Beta in one of the Red Hat summit during you time as our project leader so I cant say that I'm surprised by this. As the Fedora community (and indeed the wider FOSS community) essentially elects the best stuff over time, Red Hat can use that crowd wisdom to help decide what pieces make the most sense for its enterprise product. Any other contributor can do the same thing, at whatever scale makes sense for them. True but at the same time no other *sponsor* is allowed to essentially *sponsor* the project as you as the former projects leader are well aware of. In the end from the communities point of view Red Hat is a sponsor no more no less, we Fedora have our own leadership, our own developer base and own priorities Fedora goes it's own way regardless of Red Hat or RHEL or any other contributor,sponsor or distribution downstream to us thinks. Red Hat can continue to advertise to it's partners that we are some kind of testing/proving ground for RHEL and directly or indirectly try to influence the direction of the project and we the community will continue to do our best to shake that stamp off the project and stay firm at the steering wheel and try to prevent Red Hat from doing so and we will continue to do so until either one of the two possible outcome on how that will end will come to pass. JBG -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: The Inquirier on F17
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 02:22:05PM +, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote: On 05/31/2012 12:39 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 08:29:30AM +0200, Gianluca Sforna wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Nicu Buculeinicu_fed...@nicubunu.ro wrote: But I think we all agree the linked article is really bad written and it would he useful to help those news sources to improve their reporting. In addition, I'd love to hear some sort of official word about the Fedora project serves as the proving ground for new features that eventually end up in the firm's Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) operating system part. I mean, is this a concept Red Hat is actively marketing? If so, as an ambassador I'd love to know it because I am constantly fighting against this Fedora is a beta (or worse) level package and its users are just Red Hat's guinea pigs attitude in press, blogs and users of other distros. If that's not true, it would be really useful to have some words from a @redhat spokesperson to back a different point of view on the Red Hat/Fedora relationship There's a big difference between Fedora is a beta and users are guinea pigs, and Fedora is a place where *any contributor* can work on new technical features and put them in front of millions of users as part of a free and open source software development process. Red Hat is only part of our community and we've had plenty of other contributors over the years put new software into the distribution for people to use. Being the proving ground for new technology that might be in a future RHEL release is only one function of the Fedora Project. Of course that function is quite important to Red Hat, and a reason why Red Hat continues to put substantail resources into Fedora. But it's not the only thing the Fedora Project does, and as you know lots of contributors have their own reasons to participate as well. Here we come to one of the core issues of Red Hat vs The Fedora community as in we ( the community ) do not view RHEL release being one function of the Fedora Project. Red Hat people who contribute to Fedora are community too. There's not a dividing line with the community on one side, and Red Hat on the other. We have some community members who are volunteers, some who work for Red Hat, some who do paid work for other companies, etc. Red Hat certainly believes it to be one of the function the project however we ( the community ) certainly don't nor should we as an project allow any sponsor Red Hat or otherwise have any influence either directly or indirectly of the project and it's direction. Community members all have influence over the project, and that doesn't exclude members who work for Red Hat. Another way to think about it is like this... Any dedicated contributor has the potential to contribute features and technology to integrate into Fedora the distribution, just like Red Hat does. It just so happens that Red Hat dedicates people, time, and money to that creation and integration effort, and as a result each release has lots of innovative new features. So in essence here you say that all innovation that happen in the project is all thanks to Red Hat and the community members time is worthless compared to the time and money Red Hat sponsor the project with. No, this is not what I said. I said Any dedicated contributor can do this. Any many do. I mentioned features that Red Hat creates specifically, but I did not exclude those created by people not at Red Hat. Please don't twist my words. I would say that the above is a rather interesting response from a former project leader then again if memory serves me correct you actually did call Fedora Beta in one of the Red Hat summit during you time as our project leader so I cant say that I'm surprised by this. [...snip...] I don't remember saying any such thing, so apparently our memories differ. If someone can show me where I did, I'll gladly own up to it as a mistake, though, because that's not what I believe. -- Paul W. Frieldshttp://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: The Inquirier on F17
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: On 05/29/2012 03:15 PM, Karin Bakis wrote: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2180673/red-hat-releases-fedora Red Hat has released its Fedora 17! Is it Red Hat that sends announcements and claims to be releasing Fedora or is the inquirer getting it wrong? Last time I checked we are a community distribution and thus the community releases Fedora not Red Hat. http://www.redhat.com/about/news/press-archive/2012/5/fedora17-provides-potent-virtualization-cloud-features-and-enhanced-desktop-and-developer-functionality I can't help but read that as a sponsor expressing in public how proud it is of the community it works with. We should be happy by what Red Hat actually had to say about the release and about our community. Red Hat can't prevent the media from misrepresenting things, but I don't see Red Hat misrepresenting anything here. John -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: The Inquirier on F17
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:22 AM, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson johan...@gmail.com wrote: Here we come to one of the core issues of Red Hat vs The Fedora community as in we ( the community ) do not view RHEL release being one function of the Fedora Project. The community is large and comes to Fedora for a lot of reasons. Some people in community, I am one of them, did in fact come in no small part because of the downstream consumption of Fedora in RHEL. Red Hat certainly believes it to be one of the function the project however we ( the community ) certainly don't nor should we as an project allow any sponsor Red Hat or otherwise have any influence either directly or indirectly of the project and it's direction. I hope most of the community does care about the goals and interests of its users (both end users of the distribution as well as downstream consumers of the distribution). That doesn't mean the community has to do anything to help achieve those goals and interests, but it seems idiotic to ignore them entirely and to not help contributors achieve their goals so long as they are consistent with the project goals. John -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: The Inquirier on F17
Thanks Paul (and Robyn) for your reply On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Paul W. Frields sticks...@gmail.com wrote: There's a big difference between Fedora is a beta and users are guinea pigs, and Fedora is a place where *any contributor* can work on new technical features and put them in front of millions of users as part of a free and open source software development process. Yeah, I'm sorry for pushing the drama button on the first characterization but at least I've got a decent answer from 2 different project leaders :) Being the proving ground for new technology that might be in a future RHEL release is only one function of the Fedora Project. Of course that function is quite important to Red Hat, and a reason why Red Hat continues to put substantail resources into Fedora. But it's not the only thing the Fedora Project does, and as you know lots of contributors have their own reasons to participate as well. So correct me if I'm getting it wrong: you are saying that Red Hat does in fact invest in Fedora so it can push new technologies early and prove their usefulness and reliability before adding them to RHEL. Robyn's addition makes it even more clear that proving ground is not necessarily a bad thing, and everyone is welcome to play with the same rules to make each Fedora release the best. Of course, while I see the concept pretty easily, I think the problem will not go away soon because the link between Red Hat and Fedora appears to be pretty tight to a casual observer, and proving ground can be (and I've seen it was) misrepresented to mean something like place where you throw things together hoping that they will stick. We just need to pay attention and be prepared to counter this kind of misinformation Anyway, thank you again for your insight on the topic. -- Gianluca Sforna http://morefedora.blogspot.com http://identi.ca/giallu - http://twitter.com/giallu -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: The Inquirier on F17
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 5:36 PM, inode0 ino...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.redhat.com/about/news/press-archive/2012/5/fedora17-provides-potent-virtualization-cloud-features-and-enhanced-desktop-and-developer-functionality I can't help but read that as a sponsor expressing in public how proud it is of the community it works with. Seconded. This is actually a very well written press release; additionally it avoids the proving ground trap altogether :) -- Gianluca Sforna http://morefedora.blogspot.com http://identi.ca/giallu - http://twitter.com/giallu -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: The Inquirier on F17
On 05/31/2012 03:27 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: Red Hat people who contribute to Fedora are community too. There's not a dividing line with the community on one side, and Red Hat on the other. I beg the differ for one example from within our community why does Red Hat feel the need to appoint four members on the board if all members of the community are considered equal Red Hat or otherwise? Just a food for your thought I see a line and I wished it did not exist because I know that a lot of Red Hat employees are contributing good honest work and a lot of it on their own free time and not strictly because it's part of their dayjob and they are doing a heck of a good job. There is just to much evidence within our community ( confrontations, decision making etc ) that says otherwise so in the end I guess we agree on disagreeing... JBG -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
