Re: Linux Action Show F14 Review
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 07:04:28AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 2:50 AM, Charles Kerr It hasn't... but, since I was listening anyway, here's my summary of their constructive criticism: [Thanks for doing this. I did listen to it but didn't have the time earlier to respond to the points made. CC'ed the folks doing the show] * Even during a slow release cycle (as everyone's preparing for GNOME 3), it's still important to have something interesting to sell users on the release. F14 had libjpeg-turbo, D, and openstep, but it didn't have a hook. Yeah. We don't have many end user facing features this cycle but I agree the announcement could have highlighted more features that we have and cover the listed features in more details. Not many people are aware of libjpeg stagnant state and it's impact (bugs, lacklustre performance etc) on all the consumers (image viewers, vnc etc) for example. I did that for the last three releases or so but didn't find time this cycle and I don't think we did a good job with the announcement this time. The release notes does cover more details as well as the one page release notes but a good announcement is important anyway. The feature list for this was somewhat lighter than previous releases, but that seems inevitable when you consider that a significant number of the brand-spanking-new-code features -- not all, but many -- come from Red Hat engineers. Those engineers were also (probably understandably) carrying a heavy burden during this development period with a little product called Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6. :-) Also, since the GNOME 3 release was pushed back, a big slate of the upstream features with desktop user appeal that go with it also were deferred. This isn't to say that we want each Fedora release during the period before a RHEL release to dip in the number of features. At some point, even a successful and profitable company like Red Hat does have resource constraints too, though. The nice thing about a feature process equally open to the entire community is that Red Hat's internal priorities aren't an exclusive limiter on the feature listing for a given Fedora release. -- Paul W. Frieldshttp://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ Where open source multiplies: http://opensource.com -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: Linux Action Show F14 Review
On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 2:50 AM, Charles Kerr It hasn't... but, since I was listening anyway, here's my summary of their constructive criticism: [Thanks for doing this. I did listen to it but didn't have the time earlier to respond to the points made. CC'ed the folks doing the show] * Even during a slow release cycle (as everyone's preparing for GNOME 3), it's still important to have something interesting to sell users on the release. F14 had libjpeg-turbo, D, and openstep, but it didn't have a hook. Yeah. We don't have many end user facing features this cycle but I agree the announcement could have highlighted more features that we have and cover the listed features in more details. Not many people are aware of libjpeg stagnant state and it's impact (bugs, lacklustre performance etc) on all the consumers (image viewers, vnc etc) for example. I did that for the last three releases or so but didn't find time this cycle and I don't think we did a good job with the announcement this time. The release notes does cover more details as well as the one page release notes but a good announcement is important anyway. * Some of the installer's windows are unpolished. These were cited: http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Install3.png http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Install4.png http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Install6.png Yep. Anaconda team is working on a UI review and will likely include more changes. http://www.bangmoney.org/serendipity/index.php?/archives/158-This-Week-in-Anaconda-5.html In particular, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/UX_Redesign * gpk-application was found lacking compared to Ubuntu's Software Center. Chris felt that the latter has added value by allowing users to review and rate applications, because that allows other users to discover good applications. Yes, Richard Hughes is working on this as well and has made some good progress http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2010/09/07/linux-and-application-installing/ PackageKit and frontends like gpk-application and kpackagekit as well as the application UI that Richard is working on are all distribution neutral unlike Software Center and coordinating with multiple distributions sometimes makes progress slower but we all benefit in the end instead of just one particular distribution. * More broadly, they felt Fedora's biggest problems is perceptual. They feel Fedora doesn't offer hardcore users anything Arch doesn't, that it doesn't offer end-users anything Ubuntu doesn't, and so on. They felt that Fedora's community could be energized if the project did a better job at distinguishing itself in the distro market. This is something we are focusing on as well. cf. new update policy, Fedora website redesign etc and it would perhaps take a couple more releases to see what effect it has. Rahul -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Linux Action Show F14 Review
This week, the Linux Action Show did a review of F14. I gave up listening to the show a few months back when Bryan said Fuck you Fedora, but tuned back in for this show to see if anything had changed. It hasn't... but, since I was listening anyway, here's my summary of their constructive criticism: * Even during a slow release cycle (as everyone's preparing for GNOME 3), it's still important to have something interesting to sell users on the release. F14 had libjpeg-turbo, D, and openstep, but it didn't have a hook. * Some of the installer's windows are unpolished. These were cited: http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Install3.png http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Install4.png http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Install6.png * gpk-application was found lacking compared to Ubuntu's Software Center. Chris felt that the latter has added value by allowing users to review and rate applications, because that allows other users to discover good applications. * More broadly, they felt Fedora's biggest problems is perceptual. They feel Fedora doesn't offer hardcore users anything Arch doesn't, that it doesn't offer end-users anything Ubuntu doesn't, and so on. They felt that Fedora's community could be energized if the project did a better job at distinguishing itself in the distro market. I know that Rahul, especially, has tried to engage these guys in a dialog in the past but I think it's a lost cause. They make some good points, but the show's S/N is not good: * Since Fedora-trolling is now literally a feature of the show, the pair spent four minutes at the beginning of the review discussing how listeners could tell whether his Fedora-bashing in the review was serious, or whether it was the show's obligatory trolling. * The installer's windows look like they have Down's syndrome. * A full seven minutes was spent riffing on how inappropriate libjpeg-turbo is for a Top Feature in the announce list, including: * Maybe Fedora is trying to attract porn surfers, who need to load jpegs in a short period of time because they need to get the job done. * Chris floated a theory that RH is paying its people to make weak Fedora releases so that it won't be serious competition to RHEL. * Bryan argued that Fedora's developers may be the best possible at self-deprecating humor and that Fedora is intentionally bad as a kind of performance art. * Two minutes discussing the leopardskin cowboy hat Chris was wearing, which to give credit where it's due, was awesome. Previously: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/marketing/2010-May/012891.html https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2009-June/msg00158.html https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2009-June/msg00170.html https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-November/msg00265.html -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Re: Linux Action Show F14 Review
I really do think trying to engage these guys is a waste of time. They are gigantic trolls, and want nothing more for us to look less than excellent. I think the best thing to do is ignore them from now on and keep on doing what we do best making free software better for everyone. --Jusitn On 11/12/2010 04:20 PM, Charles Kerr wrote: This week, the Linux Action Show did a review of F14. I gave up listening to the show a few months back when Bryan said Fuck you Fedora, but tuned back in for this show to see if anything had changed. It hasn't... but, since I was listening anyway, here's my summary of their constructive criticism: * Even during a slow release cycle (as everyone's preparing for GNOME 3), it's still important to have something interesting to sell users on the release. F14 had libjpeg-turbo, D, and openstep, but it didn't have a hook. * Some of the installer's windows are unpolished. These were cited: http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Install3.png http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Install4.png http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Install6.png * gpk-application was found lacking compared to Ubuntu's Software Center. Chris felt that the latter has added value by allowing users to review and rate applications, because that allows other users to discover good applications. * More broadly, they felt Fedora's biggest problems is perceptual. They feel Fedora doesn't offer hardcore users anything Arch doesn't, that it doesn't offer end-users anything Ubuntu doesn't, and so on. They felt that Fedora's community could be energized if the project did a better job at distinguishing itself in the distro market. I know that Rahul, especially, has tried to engage these guys in a dialog in the past but I think it's a lost cause. They make some good points, but the show's S/N is not good: * Since Fedora-trolling is now literally a feature of the show, the pair spent four minutes at the beginning of the review discussing how listeners could tell whether his Fedora-bashing in the review was serious, or whether it was the show's obligatory trolling. * The installer's windows look like they have Down's syndrome. * A full seven minutes was spent riffing on how inappropriate libjpeg-turbo is for a Top Feature in the announce list, including: * Maybe Fedora is trying to attract porn surfers, who need to load jpegs in a short period of time because they need to get the job done. * Chris floated a theory that RH is paying its people to make weak Fedora releases so that it won't be serious competition to RHEL. * Bryan argued that Fedora's developers may be the best possible at self-deprecating humor and that Fedora is intentionally bad as a kind of performance art. * Two minutes discussing the leopardskin cowboy hat Chris was wearing, which to give credit where it's due, was awesome. Previously: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/marketing/2010-May/012891.html https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2009-June/msg00158.html https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2009-June/msg00170.html https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-November/msg00265.html -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
