Re: more random brainstorming
Cool, a brainstorming! :) I got another one: GNOME - Join the desktop revolution. Cheers, Claus On Wed, 18 May 2005 17:35:55 -0400 Luis Villa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More slogan braindumping: GNOME: The Heart Of the Linux Desktop * puts us in the center of the greater desktop space (firefox, ooo, vmware, adobe, etc.) * identifies as clearly as one can in a few words where we are (linux desktop) Anyway, thinking aloud- Luis -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
Hi, Marcus Bauer a écrit : My suggestion is: Gnome - easy and efficent I like it. It doesn't say *what* GNOME is, but I don't think that we really need to in a slogan. Just compare the overly cluttered menues of ... to Gnome. The ease of snip a heavy ... dominance in my local linux user group. Aren't we allowed to say KDE on the list? :) Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
Marcus Bauer wrote: Gnome - easy and efficent Gnome - its your desktop SM -- You see things; and you say 'Why?'; But I dream things that never were; and I say 'Why not?' - George Bernard Shaw -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
On 5/19/05, Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Luis Villa a écrit : More slogan braindumping: GNOME: The Heart Of the Linux Desktop Hm... basing our identity on a slogan which one of our ad board members (FSF) is clearly not going to like is probably not a good idea... The FSF will be fine with it. It is only Richard who cares about that- most of his own organization, when spoken to in private, thinks Richard's bitching about GNU/L is immature and a losing cause. can we put Free Desktop or Open Desktop instead? Open is just as offensive to the FSF, if not worse- other people in the organization actually agree with that. I could see 'Heart of the Free Desktop', though- it isn't quite as clear to outsiders, but still impactful. Does that lose impact because we're no longer identifying ourselves as Linux software? I can also see a move to a Linux-centric moving us further away from Sun. Honestly, I don't really care much what Sun thinks at this point. And 'Free' or 'Open' doesn't help us much there :) Luis -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
On 5/19/05, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My suggestion is: Gnome - easy and efficent because that is exactly Gnome's selling point and one needs to repeat it over and over again :-) We definitely want to pimp easy and efficient as much as possible; I've added 'usable' to every single press release I have ever touched for the Foundation. :) I don't think it is sufficient for a slogan, though- it doesn't provide any information about what we are, what we do, etc. List of adjectives that describe GNOME (these should be dumped into the wiki, probably, so that they can be added to and used/reused in the press, etc.) * easy * usable * efficient * accessible Anyone have more? I used to have a longer list but appear to have lost it. By the way, for newbies on the list, the other slogan I particularly liked was 'the desktop of choice', which allows us to imply among other things: * still a desktop (I know this is a vague term, but it is the best we have) * you get to choose (usable, accessible, etc.) * we are chosen by Sun/Novell/RedHat/Spain/Brazil/etc. * we are chosen by firefox/openoffice/eclipse/etc. Luis -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
On 5/19/05, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marcus Bauer wrote: Gnome - easy and efficent Gnome - its your desktop We discussed earlier 'your desktop of choice'; while I'm in general in favor of making this personal, I argued that we should use 'the' instead of 'your' because it makes it easier to tie into our big deployments and big supporters; 'your' makes that awkward. (Keep the ideas coming!) Luis -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
evangelist users- the other key note from LCA marketing BOF
A dump of my notes (slightly expanded) from the discussion on 'Evangelist Users' at the LCA marketing BOF. In a nutshell, the discussion was about users who go out and evangelize GNOME- how have firefox/KDE been so succesful at this, why are we not doing so hot, how can we (should we?) etc. My notes, with my editorial comments as Ed.: MozillaOrg does a good job of this, see spreadfirefox.com jeff: 'hemorrhaging users' because we haven't reached out to the early adopters, etc.- not leveraging community to do our marketing for us. (Ed.: I'm not sure we're actually hemorrhaghing users, as we have no actual numbers on this, but we're certainly not leveraging the users we have for this.) mozilla used to have an active HTML correctness evangelism team, do we need a 'media correctness team' to go out to bad (FUD-y?) articles/media and show them how great gnome is/or research why they didn't like it? need to hype our user forums more? how did UbuntuCom get such great, friendly forum? how do we make gnome 1337 without compromising our 'core values'? (flip side: os/x is not particularly 1337, or not compromised, but obviously it gets evangelized- partially because of the depth/flexibility- easy for newbies, powerful for experts) alternately: how do we make gnome more fun? maybe better question than making ourselves more 1337? get a superstar? we as developers need to be more public, more unabashed about our endorsements- havoc, miguel? what about kernel people? others? -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
Hi, Variations on just works: The desktop for people with better things to do Desktop software that doesn't get in the way Get on with it Just do it (might be taken...) Makes Stuff Work The Best of Breed Desktop (just for Luis) Easy, useful, unobtrusive Cheers, Dave. PS. I'm not so sure that we are not well-known to our target audiences. One possible (low-effort) strategy for us is to let Lunx get bigger on its own, and increase our share of the linux desktop. And on the linux desktop, the vast majority of people know about GNOME and KDE. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME tour?
BTW, has anyone looked at: http://www.apple.com/macosx/overview/ and/or poked around kde.org (I can't find anything competitive offhand) to harvest ideas here? Luis On 5/17/05, Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think we have any online tour of GNOME yet. I'm thinking of something like the release notes that we do every six months, but looking at the whole instead of just the changes. This might get our message across to the people who don't take the time to test something, even a LiveCD. So, what would we put in that tour? I can think of - File Management - The Panel and some everyday applets. - Evolution - GnomeMeeting - Preferences - System Tools - System Admin tools/lockdown -- Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
On Thu, 19 May 2005 08:28:51 -0400 Luis Villa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We discussed earlier 'your desktop of choice'; while I'm in general in favor of making this personal, I argued that we should use 'the' instead of 'your' because it makes it easier to tie into our big deployments and big supporters; 'your' makes that awkward. In fact, the original version was 'My desktop of choice'. ;) Cheers, Claus -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
A few more: 'Desktop'ing made simple' 'Simplicity redefined' 'Not usable' 'Ready for a new desktop?' Cheers, Claus -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: evangelist users- the other key note from LCA marketing BOF
On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:15:31 +0200 Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some major flaws in current gnome marketing: Gnome does not really promote its ease of use. Havoc's README that comes with the metacity package simply needs to be polished up into a press-printable form (shorter, less rant, less technical). I already pointed out a GNOME agenda (a paper on goals) would be useful to attract more developers, and use it as a kind of reference for design decisions. Maybe you could move the README into the wiki so it could be polished? KDE embraces Gnome apps where there is no equivalent (gimp,inkscape) as well as technology (gnome-volume-manager). These apps are often not perceived as Gnome apps from KDE users. So one just needs to tell them ;-) With an application that allows configuration of KDE apps, we'd be able to do the same. There was once somebody who wanted to do something alike but he probably stopped his efforts. The Gnome website is - what? It exists. But from a marketing point of view it is not much. The navigation is sub optimal. And the layout is sub optimal. Some good information is now on gnomefiles but unless you know what you are looking for it is far from perfect. I already pointed this out several times. However, the problem is the infrastructure: You don't get many Python hackers for web design, and all PHP hackers have lost interest a long time ago. There's even a sort of official decision not to deploy _any_ web 'application'. You can even find people complaining about the live.gnome.org wiki even on the foundation mailing list, suggesting to use MediaWiki. But since it's PHP, it was probably not even considered in the beginning. I also tried two times to get a gnome application listing site 'accepted' - the first mockup presented roughly two month before gnomefiles started - but all I recieved was a simple 'No, we want something else'. No explanation what they wanted, and no hint what to improve to get your own solution accepted. Right now there's another guy on the web-hackers list trying to solve the problem but I guess it will end in a similar 'decision' to do nothing. One simply looses interest when you get such 'feedback'. Cheers, Claus -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: evangelist users- the other key note from LCA marketing BOF
On Thu, 2005-05-19 at 22:15 +0200, Claus Schwarm wrote: Maybe you could move the README into the wiki so it could be polished? Basically it says: * the question whether or not to include a new feature isn't Why not but Why? Is it really necessary to have that? * instead of giving the user the choice between six options it is better to have directly a reasonable default. * don't bother the user with stuff he doesn't care for * kiss - keep it simple stupid some quotes (keep in mind that's all not intended to be marketing speak): - Boring window manager for the adult in you. Many window managers are like Marshmallow Froot Loops; Metacity is like Cheerios. - Does not expose the concept of window manager to the user. Some of the features in the GNOME control panel and other parts of the desktop happen to be implemented in metacity, such as changing your window border theme, or changing your window navigation shortcuts, but the user doesn't need to know this. Q: Will you add my feature? A: If it makes sense to turn on unconditionally, or is genuinely a harmless preference that I would not be embarrassed to put in a simple, uncluttered, user-friendly configuration dialog. If the only rationale for your feature is that other window managers have it, or that you are personally used to it, or something like that, then I will not be impressed. Metacity is firmly in the choose good defaults camp rather than the offer 6 equally broken ways to do it, and let the user pick one camp. This is part of a no crackrock policy, despite some exceptions I'm mildly embarrassed about. For example, multiple workspaces probably constitute crackrock, they confuse most users and really are not that useful if you have a decent tasklist and so on. But I am too used to them to turn them off. Or alternatively iconification/tasklist is crack, and workspaces/pager are good. But having both is certainly a bit wrong. Sloppy focus is probably crackrock too. But don't think unlimited crack is OK just because I slipped up a little. No slippery slope here. Q: Why no XYZ? A: You are probably getting the idea by now - check rationales.txt, query/search bugzilla, and read http://pobox.com/~hp/features.html and http://pobox.com/~hp/free-software-ui.html Then sit down and answer the question for yourself. Is the feature good? What's the rationale for it? Answer why not just why not. Justify in terms of users as a whole, not just users like yourself. How else can you solve the same problem? etc. If that leads you to a strong opinion, then please, post the rationale for discussion to an appropriate bugzilla bug, or to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please don't just me too! on bugzilla bugs, please don't think flames will get you anywhere, and please don't repeat rationale that's already been offered. Q: How about adding viewports in addition to workspaces? A: I could conceivably be convinced to use viewports _instead_ of workspaces, though currently I'm not thinking that. But I don't think it makes any sense to have both; it's just confusing. They are functionally equivalent. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: evangelist users- the other key note from LCA marketing BOF
On Thu, 2005-05-19 at 16:10 -0400, Luis Villa wrote: I really like the 'heart of the desktop' :) Isn't it also a mixed metaphor? -- Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Actions (was: Surveys at conferences..)
On 5/9/05, Claus Schwarm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 09 May 2005 09:49:51 +0200 Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a short list of the stuff that's ongoing: GNOME Journal (Jim, Sri) Upcoming conferences (Claus) LiveCD (Luis) Press contacts (?) Deployments list (Dave) Printed material (posters/flyers/t-shirts) (?) Market research (?) Please note that I got active for the GNOME Journal lately, and I don't know how long I'll need to do it. I just tried the other format of the conference list, and I'm waiting for the OK from Luis to clean it up. Eek, I suck- I didn't realize you were blocking on me for this :/ I'm not 100% thrilled with the proposed format (I think it is much harder to find certain pertinent information in the list than in the table) but you're going ahead and doing it, so go ahead and Do It- I'm not doing it myself, clearly, right now :/ If the conference list is working, it wouldn't matter to layout out a survey. It's indeed a good idea: We could do it on the web, too, and compare results to get an impression about differences in the audience. I'd note that conferences are a totally skewed audience with very specific interests/needs/etc. I'm not particularly interested in creating pseudo-data unless we are very clear and up front about understanding the limitations. Luis -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
On Thu, 2005-05-19 at 17:43 -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: :D GNOME: Drink more beer ;-) -- David Moreno Garza [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.damog.net/ I do not fear computers, I fear the lack of them. GPG: C671257D - 6EF6 C284 C95D 78F6 0B78 FFD3 981C 5FD7 C671 257D -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
On 5/19/05, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=Luis Villa 'The Desktop of Choice' 'The Choice Desktop' 'Desktop Linux Defined' Worth noting that this one is Jeff's fav. :) Though it was 'Linux Desktop Defined'. :-) Either way I'm admittedly not a huge fan, though I can't quite put my finger on why- mostly probably because at this point it seems both limiting (we do more than define) and hubristic (it's not really true yet :) Also, defining just seems... so boring. Like, no one wants to hang out with a dictionary. :) Luis -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
quote who=Luis Villa On 5/19/05, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=Luis Villa 'The Desktop of Choice' 'The Choice Desktop' 'Desktop Linux Defined' Worth noting that this one is Jeff's fav. :) Though it was 'Linux Desktop Defined'. :-) Either way I'm admittedly not a huge fan, though I can't quite put my finger on why- mostly probably because at this point it seems both limiting (we do more than define) and hubristic (it's not really true yet :) Also, defining just seems... so boring. Like, no one wants to hang out with a dictionary. :) It's not a user message - we're going to have a few. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2005: May 29th-31st http://2005.guadec.org/ It's my head, Schwartz - it's my head! - John Malkovich -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
Worth noting that this one is Jeff's fav. :) Though it was 'Linux Desktop Defined'. :-) Either way I'm admittedly not a huge fan, though I can't quite put my finger on why- mostly probably because at this point it seems both limiting (we do more than define) and hubristic (it's not really true yet :) Also, defining just seems... so boring. Like, no one wants to hang out with a dictionary. :) It's also Linux specific. Of course Sun cares. Of course I care. We're just not very vocal sometimes ;) If we had a number of different options, then that would be ok, but restricting ourselves purely to Linux doesn't seem like a good idea [1] Glynn [1] Would you call Evolution a GNOME application? If so, then we're making it sound like it's only a Linux specific application, even though it runs on Linux, BSD, Solaris, Windows, ... -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
On 5/20/05, Glynn Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Worth noting that this one is Jeff's fav. :) Though it was 'Linux Desktop Defined'. :-) Either way I'm admittedly not a huge fan, though I can't quite put my finger on why- mostly probably because at this point it seems both limiting (we do more than define) and hubristic (it's not really true yet :) Also, defining just seems... so boring. Like, no one wants to hang out with a dictionary. :) It's also Linux specific. Of course Sun cares. Of course I care. We know /you/ care, Glynn. And we love /you/. :) If we had a number of different options, then that would be ok, but restricting ourselves purely to Linux doesn't seem like a good idea [1] Earlier in the thread, the 'Open Desktop' or 'Free Desktop' was mooted instead of 'Linux Desktop.' Luis -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
On 5/20/05, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=The Face of Sun Microsystems It's also Linux specific. Again, it's going to be one of a number of catchphrases for particular audiences. There does need to be one pre-eminent catchphrase, though. Linux Desktop is a cruical phrase right now. It's disappointing that we're not high up in the Google rankings for it. Agreed (though I'm showing us fifth ATM- which is better than we've been in a while, IIRC)- Luis -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
something to consider when doing the next web revamping
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/stopthepresses_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000893246 [Talks about news sites, but probably relevant to us too- we should analyze the logs :) Has it really come to the point where significant numbers of people who visit news sites bypass the home page? Well, listen to the experience of the The Globe Mail, Canada's national newspaper. According to its Web site's editor, Angus Frame, 41% of globeandmail.com visits now begin on non-hub pages (that is, all but the home page and section pages such as Sports, Business, etc.). These are site visitors who come to article pages via search engines, news aggregators (like Google News), RSS feeds, news alerts, e-mail newsletters, notes from friends, and the like. Other news sites report similar user behavior. CSMonitor.com, the Web site of the Christian Science Monitor, tracks only 23% of its visitors' sessions coming in via the home page, with the rest entering at the article level or other page. The Monitor's Joel Abrams notes that a shockingly high percentage of those sessions that start on a story end on that story. He says, For an upcoming redesign, we're putting a lot of thought into [article-page design]. The Monitor, like other news sites, is trying to recognize that other editors -- and algorithms -- have become the gatekeepers to our reporting. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
quote who=Luis Villa Agreed (though I'm showing us fifth ATM- which is better than we've been in a while, IIRC)- HFSNW! Yeah! That's a fantastic change. I wonder who's juicing us up. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2005: May 29th-31st http://2005.guadec.org/ Ye shall be cursed to fall in love so easily, and yet be so cold of heart as never to express it. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
