Re: [Marxism] More nonsense from the pro-Russia brigade
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == In most recent Budgen-like spray, Louis forgot to include the link: http://links.org.au/node/3916 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] More nonsense from the pro-Russia brigade
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://critiqueofcrisistheory.wordpress.com/is-russia-imperialist/ I've never belonged to a political party, probably never will. The price of admission always seems too high. Someone from the FMLN once asked me to marry his sister, for example. So when I first stumbled upon this forum some years back, all the talk of tendencies, fractions, splits, etc., was very foreign to me. I've noticed how people form emotionally strong attachments to, or against, whatever failed socialist project they may have been part of in the past, and how these emotions become intertwined with political positions on any given issue. I tend to mistrust emotionally-laden arguments, especially when they are laced with expletives. For this reason I always try to read both sides to an issue, whether or not I may agree or disagree with either point of view. The blog above, by some economist named Sam Williams, was quoted by the author of the piece from Links. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Someone Is Spilling ISIS’s Secrets on Twitter
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/18/someone-is-spilling-isis-s-secrets-on-twitter.html?utm_medium=emailutm_source=newsletterutm_campaign=cheatsheet_morningcid=newsletter%3Bemail%3Bcheatsheet_morningutm_term=Cheat+Sheet Brian Fishman, a fellow at The New America foundation and ISIS analyst who has been following the group for years, is cautious about @wikibaghdady’s claims but called the account, “at minimum a keen observer of events in Syria,” and “a key source of ideas that should be investigated through other means.” A similar assessment came from Hassan Hassan, an analyst at the Delma institute in Abu Dhabi and expert on radical groups in the region. “The account does seem to offer credible insider information about ISIS,” Hassan said, “but it is not wholly accurate…[and] should be taken with a pinch of salt.” Despite the caveats, @wikibaghdady deserves closer examination—especially at a moment when ISIS’s next moves could lead to a wider conflagration and more carnage. And some of what @wikbaghdady tweeted months ago has already been borne out by facts on the ground. The leaker’s revelations about ISIS’s alliance with Saddam Hussein’s former party, the Baathists http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/13/isis-s-secret-allies.html, were confirmed by the events of last week, for example. The rapid takeover of Iraqi cities was not a solo effort; the campaign relied on a cultivated network of partnerships between Sunni groups including, critically, ISIS’s pact with their ideological enemies, the Baathists—a repeated theme in @wikibaghdady’s tweets. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] On Torture in the Moderate FSA
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == From that wonderful exemplar of the tankie press, the Armenian Weekly http://www.armenianweekly.com/2014/06/17/hell/ In October 2013, Human Rights Watch (HRW) published a report titled “You Can Still See Their Blood” that documented the atrocities committed by extremist groups, such as the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) and Jaish al-Muhajireen wal-Ansar, against civilians in Latakia, Syria.[1] In response to the report, the Supreme Military Council (SMC) of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) “wholeheartedly condemned” the crimes and reiterated its “full commitment to respecting the rule of law.” The SMC “stressed that the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham, Jabhat al-Nusra, Ahrar al-Sham, Suqour al-Izz, and Jaish al-Muhajireen wal-Ansar are not part of the SMC command structure and do not represent the values of the FSA or the Syrian revolution.”[2] Three months earlier, on July 26, 2013, the Free Syrian Army had kidnapped seven Syrian Armenians (four men and three women) while they were leaving Aleppo to resettle in Yerevan, Armenia. The women were released within the first 10 hours, while the men were incarcerated for 45 days. This report documents the experience of those four men according to the first-hand accounts of Carlo Hatsarkorzian and Sako Assadourian. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Haven't We Had Enough?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://stillhomeron.blogspot.com/2014/06/havent-we-had-enough.html Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Protesters evicted as Rice pushes US ideals Local paper on Condi Rice talk at Military College
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.timesargus.com/article/20140620/NEWS03/706209950/0/THISJUSTIN Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] More nonsense from the pro-Russia brigade
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 6/20/14 2:27 AM, glparramatta--- via Marxism wrote: In most recent Budgen-like spray, Louis forgot to include the link: http://links.org.au/node/3916 Just a follow up on Annis's inanity, ARAMCO, the Saudi oil company, is state-owned. I don't think this is what Marx and Lenin had in mind when they were writing about socialism. In fact Lenin used the term state capitalism to refer to such entities but not in the Tony Cliff sense. There was a time when people like Roger Annis understood this but apparently no longer after being bitten by the Putin bug. I will try to find time to explain this at greater length but in the meantime here's something I wrote about Algeria's state-owned oil industry years ago when I was trying to help a state cap understand the issues. Maybe it will help the people at Links. http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/state_and_revolution/algeria.htm Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] More nonsense from the pro-Russia brigade
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 6/20/14 4:04 AM, Greg McDonald via Marxism wrote: http://critiqueofcrisistheory.wordpress.com/is-russia-imperialist/ The blog above, by some economist named Sam Williams, was quoted by the author of the piece from Links. It is appalling that Annis can rely on an analysis that includes this jewel plucked from the Global Research/Party of Socialism and Liberation/MRZine/WSWS.org toilet bowl: The Orange Revolution was part of a series of pro-Empire “color revolutions”—some successful and some not—that were organized by the Empire and its local representatives with the aim of replacing governments that resisted the Empire in one way or another. Other such “revolutions” include the Cedar Revolution in Lebanon; the unsuccessful Green Revolution in Iran, which also attempted unsuccessfully to overturn a presidential election; and the Rose Revolution in Georgia. Is anybody in the Socialist Alliance really comfortable with a Links article that is based on another article that has conspiracy ooga-booga written in neon colors across the top in 36 point type? Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] On Torture in the Moderate FSA
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 6/20/14 7:24 AM, Greg McDonald via Marxism wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == From that wonderful exemplar of the tankie press, the Armenian Weekly http://www.armenianweekly.com/2014/06/17/hell/ From another article by the author of the above: Certainly the outcome of the June 3, 2014 Syrian elections is not in doubt; barring a miracle, President Assad will start a third term as the head of the state. But while western governments and the mainstream media would like us to believe that the election is a farce, the reality is otherwise. In the past several days, millions of Syrian refugees and compatriots have submitted their absentee ballots at more than 40 Syrian embassies around the world, including in Lebanon, Armenia, Jordan, Russia, and elsewhere. According to most reports, the vast majority of the Syrians who have cast their absentee ballots have voted for President Assad. http://www.armenianweekly.com/2014/06/02/syria-makloube-elections/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] More nonsense from the pro-Russia brigade
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The formal logic struck me too when reading Williams' sections on finance capital and wealth, who's got 'em or not. There's no sense of direction of motion. Yes, Russia and China have comparatively less finance capital needing to be invested abroad (although China's propping up of Treasury bills with revenue from commodity exports is nothing to sneeze at as a factor impacting diplomacy and military behavior). But both countries want and need to head in that direction, are impelled to do so by the resurrected laws of motion of capital in their countries. On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 10:19 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 6/20/14 10:08 AM, Greg McDonald wrote: *No Russian imperialism* If we use the criterion of an independently powerful military machine, there is really only one imperialist power, or “czar,” in today’s world, the United States of America. Sam Williams uses the term imperialist in the narrow sense of Lenin's 1914 essay. If you stick to that definition, then Japan was not imperialist when it invaded Manchuria in the 1930s, nor was Italy when it invaded Ethiopia around the same time. Germany was obviously a lot closer to Lenin's model but Sam Williams's problem--as should be obvious--is that he thinks in terms of binary oppositions: imperialism versus non-imperialism. This is an application of formal logic that pervades the entire anti-imperialist left. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/ options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] More nonsense from the pro-Russia brigade
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 6/20/14 10:08 AM, Greg McDonald wrote: *No Russian imperialism* If we use the criterion of an independently powerful military machine, there is really only one imperialist power, or “czar,” in today’s world, the United States of America. Sam Williams uses the term imperialist in the narrow sense of Lenin's 1914 essay. If you stick to that definition, then Japan was not imperialist when it invaded Manchuria in the 1930s, nor was Italy when it invaded Ethiopia around the same time. Germany was obviously a lot closer to Lenin's model but Sam Williams's problem--as should be obvious--is that he thinks in terms of binary oppositions: imperialism versus non-imperialism. This is an application of formal logic that pervades the entire anti-imperialist left. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Kagarlitsky is paid by Kremlin - now officially
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://rbcdaily.ru/society/562949991750668 Kagarlitsky's Institute for Globalisation and Social Movements has received a presidential grant. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Hezbollah's Al-Manar network praising Joe Biden
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == In an unusually US-friendly report on Al-Manar: the network that brings UFO specialists, extremist Shiite imams, secular Lebanese leftists and franklin lamb all together to discuss the NATO-US-UK-France-Saudi-Zionist Entity evil plans to extract petroleum from the Middle East and destroy its societies, a headline says: Biden urges leaders of Iraq to unite against ISIS and form a non-sectarian government. This is set right below headlines of Ali Al sistani, Nuri Al Maliki and Hassan Rouhani basically calling for same thing. And of course, in news of Syria, you find headlines like Syrian government thwarts chemical attack attempt at Damascus and Bashar Al Assad receives congratulations for winning the elections from the republic of Cuba. This vindicates the view that the US and Iran share many common interests in the Middle East. http://www.almanar.com.lb/wap/edetails.php?cid=23eid=875081 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Regarding my recent piece on ISIS
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 6/20/14 11:43 AM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism wrote: Was I wasting my time? Of course not. If you posted a link to the article on the Marxism list 3 years ago, you might have gotten static from any number of people, including some who are no longer with us. I think that the pro-Baathist left has lost a lot of its momentum since all of its predictions have turned out to be utter bullshit. As for those who agree with your orientation, there's not much that can be said except that we agree. Keep in mind that I first ran into you on Kasama when I (and Binh) was still very critical of Gilbert Achcar. It was your intervention that helped clarify my thinking. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Cointelpro never ended
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Cointelpro started long before it was labeled with the acronym and will never end until (if you want to believe it is possible) a utopian communist society with no class antagonism can be achieved. We should expose and oppose infiltration, subversion, provocation, informing, etc., but thinking that opposition will force the government to end these counter-revolutionary practices is delusional and hampers the building of a well-disciplined left movement. In Solidarity, Red Arnie Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Regarding my recent piece on ISIS
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 06/20/2014 09:58 AM, Jeff via Marxism wrote: But what you should know about this list, is that the members who post frequently are naturally in attack mode. That means that if you post something that they disagree with, especially if it has some clear errors or problematic logic, then it will generate lots of angry responses. Conversely, if you don't get responses to a post, it means that everyone either agreed with it or couldn't find any point to attack it on. Reminds me of my days blogging at the DailyKos. I got a lot of feedback there, mostly from people in attack mode, until they finally got me banned for saying stuff that has panned out 100% since then. I'm certainly not looking for that kind of unprincipled feedback but at least I knew the a piece was being read and discussed. I'm not looking for a bunch of ataboys from those that agree or to waste bandwidth, but I guess I am saying I need more feedback and I want to thank everyone who took the time to give it to me this morning. In Solidarity, Clay -- Clay Claiborne, Owner Cosmos Engineering Co. http://CosmosEng.com/ 116 Rose Ave, Ste. 9 Venice Beach, CA 90291 (310)581-1536 (323) 219-6507 cell Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Cointelpro never ended
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 06/20/2014 09:30 AM, Mark Lause via Marxism wrote: At this stage of the game, such abuses by the government seem almost quaint. Sent from my Windows Phone Which also CC'ed it to the NSA! -- Clay Claiborne, Owner Cosmos Engineering Co. http://CosmosEng.com/ 116 Rose Ave, Ste. 9 Venice Beach, CA 90291 (310)581-1536 (323) 219-6507 cell Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Will ISIS Create al-Sham Caliphate Liberate Palestine? » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == (This is a remarkable article by Franklin Lamb who has functioned pretty much as a Baathist/Hizbollah propagandist in the past. He seems to be warming up to ISIS.) DAASH supporters claim that it reaches out to local notables and tribal leaders and discuss their differences and seek their tribal counsel. DAASH claims that the Roman Catholic Vatican supports its own claims that when they captured Mosul last week they did not harm Christian residents or desecrate churches. In this they are supported by Archbishop Giorgio Lingua, the Apostolic Nuncio (Pope’s envoy) in Iraq who this week told the media: “The guerrillas who are in control of Mosul have to date not committed any violent act or damaged the churches there.” It is becoming clear that DAASH has set up well organized local administrations in areas it controls, including an Islamic court system and a local non-hostile police force which support public safety with measures such as closing shops for selling poor products in the souks and supermarkets and on the street, destroying cigarettes and whipping some individuals for disrespecting and insulting their neighbors, confiscating counterfeit medicines in addition to some death sentences for apostasy. full: http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/06/20/will-isis-create-al-sham-caliphate-liberate-palestine/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Regarding my recent piece on ISIS
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I don't have a suggestion at the moment about where to publish it or how to tailor it for them (although I hope others do), but I definitely think we all should be quoting from it when we're involved in discussions whether with friend or foe. On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Briefly, how would you reframe what you are calling underconsumptionist assumptions. Actually i was worried that those opening paragraphs were putting people off from reading it, I am also thinking of re-writing it as a shorter piece that excludes that anti-capitalist intro, and focuses on the ISIS stuff with an eye to getting it published in something more mainstream. Any suggestions? Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com Linux Beach Productions Venice, CA 90291 (310) 581-1536 Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/ http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Greg McDonald gregm...@gmail.com wrote: To offer a nitpick, I might suggest reframing the underconsumptionist assumptions in the opening paragraphs. Also, a question. I noticed some of the Baathist spokespersons in Mosul seem to be publicly badmouthing ISIS. I'm curious if the relationship between the 2 groups is merely tactical, or strategic, as you seem to imply? Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Children of Paradise and the Redemptive Power of Art » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I saw Paradise my first year of college. I was blown away. Smith College in Northampton, near Hampshire, which I attended, was offering a class on French Cinema. It's hard not to be down on the current state of cinema when one is exposed to Carne, Renoir, and Truffaut at such a young age. The movies I make often take on the tone of Poetic Realism, for which Carne and Prevert are known. Huge influence! On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Marcel Carné's Masterpiece Children of Paradise and the Redemptive Power of Art by LOUIS PROYECT Recently Jeffrey St. Clair polled a group of CounterPunch contributors on what they considered to be the greatest 100 films ever made (coming soon). My list omitted “Children of Paradise”, a 1945 French film that was sitting on my shelf for a couple of months incarnated as two Netflix DVD’s (the film runs for 195 minutes). Let me make amends for that now after having seen it for the first time—where have I been all these years? Although I didn’t rate my top 100 in order of greatness, Marcel Carné’s masterpiece, about which Francois Truffaut once said “I would give up all my films to have directed Children of Paradise”, would certainly be among the top ten. When you enter the world of “Children of Paradise” that is set in the 1830s, you recognize immediately an air of artifice that begins with the opening scene, an image of a curtain that upon lifting reveals hundreds of Parisians milling about a street filled with acrobats, clowns, magicians, jugglers and other artists performing in the open air. The street was known as the Boulevard of Crime, not so much for assaults on the citizens who flocked there but for the theaters that specialized in policiers. full: http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/06/20/children-of- paradise-and-the-redemptive-power-of-art/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/ options/marxism/ernestleif%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Facing the Grim Reaper, Once Again: Buddha, Galileo and the Hospital Industry | CENSA
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == By Roger Burbach On the Ides of March I awoke in a cold sweat from an apocalyptic nightmare in a hospital bed at the University of California, San Francisco medical center. I trembled and could not suppress a cry as I recalled my dream of General Augusto Pinochet rising from his tomb as a skeleton. Donned in his military cap and cloak, he looked like the skeletons that are prominently displayed in Mexico on the Day of the Dead. He carried the scythe of the Grim Reaper and began marching through the streets of Santiago, Chile, slaughtering those that crossed his path. He went to the chambers of Judge Juan Guzman who had prosecuted him, hacked him in half with the scythe, then proceeded to the offices of Juan Pablo Cardenas, the editor of the leading resistance magazine during the dictatorship, destroying desks and typewriters before cornering Juan Pablo. He next sought out my friend Fernando Zegers, a lawyer who worked at the Vicariate of Solidarity, a human rights organization founded by Cardinal Raul Silvia Henriquez. Seeing a picture of the now departed Cardinal on the wall, Pinochet cursed at it saying “you hid Communists under your bed.” Desperately I called on everyone I knew in Chile and abroad to help resist the General’s onslaught, but to no avail. Even when my comrades managed to break his bones, the skeleton reassembled. Finally Pinochet spotted me and as he approached with his raised scythe I awoke from my traumatic nightmare. full: http://wp.globalalternatives.org/latest-news/facing-the-grim-reaper-once-again-buddha-galileo-and-the-hospital-industry Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] More nonsense from the pro-Russia brigade
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 20.06.2014 15:33, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: On 6/20/14 2:27 AM, glparramatta--- via Marxism wrote: In most recent Budgen-like spray, Louis forgot to include the link: http://links.org.au/node/3916 Just a follow up on Annis's inanity, ARAMCO, the Saudi oil company, is state-owned. I don't think this is what Marx and Lenin had in mind when they were writing about socialism. In fact Lenin used the term state capitalism to refer to such entities but not in the Tony Cliff sense. Just for clarification, Tony Cliff actually also referred to such entities as a form of state capitalism (following on from Bukharin's analysis in Imperialism and World Economy), although he distinguished it clearly from what he called bureaucratic state capitalism in the Soviet Union. Einde O'Callaghan Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] More nonsense from the pro-Russia brigade
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == True, but there must be some way to discuss the intersection of economic and political inequalities at the international level, which are discussed, however ahistorical and erroneously, by the campists, without ignoring the internal class dynamics of each nation. Isn't the primary criticism of the campists that they ignore internal class dynamics at the expense of a static geopolitical analysis? Why then ignore geopolitical analysis and focus solely on internal class dynamics? While Lenin's theory of imperialism may connote a certain economic reductionism, that does not negate the fact that finance capital plays an important role in the movement of politics and war iatthe international level. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater? And I'm not talking about the conspiracy theory stuff, or the absurd bloc of nations critiqued by Michael Karadjis. It seems to me if you ignore one at the expense of the other, you end up with a distorted perspective. Greg McDonald On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: The formal logic struck me too when reading Williams' sections on finance capital and wealth, who's got 'em or not. There's no sense of direction of motion. Yes, Russia and China have comparatively less finance capital needing to be invested abroad (although China's propping up of Treasury bills with revenue from commodity exports is nothing to sneeze at as a factor impacting diplomacy and military behavior). But both countries want and need to head in that direction, are impelled to do so by the resurrected laws of motion of capital in their countries. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Hezbollah's Al-Manar network praising Joe Biden
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 6/20/14 7:49 PM, Shane Mage via Marxism wrote: As your posting equally vindicates the view that rrrevolutionaries like your good self share many common interests with the takfiris. You are replying to an Arab Marxist, Shane. We are privileged to have someone like him on board. Given the enormous pressure in the Middle East to adapt to political Islam or to anti-imperialist cutthroats like Bashar al-Assad, it takes a lot of backbone to think in class terms. You, your feckless brother, Yoshie Furuhashi, the people who hang out at Moon of Alabama, Michel Chossudovsky, Ramsey Clark, George Galloway--I would trade ten thousand of you for one of him. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Hezbollah's Al-Manar network praising Joe Biden
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 6/20/14 8:43 PM, Shane Mage wrote: I was once expelled from a professedly Marxist groupuscule (one that was later to inspire your conception of marxism) simply for rejecting their going-over to the Stalinist apologetics of Pablo(Raptis)/Germain(Mandel), and the frères Castro. Marxism is as Marxism does. Krapp's Last Tape. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Hezbollah's Al-Manar network praising Joe Biden
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jun 20, 2014, at 8:43 PM, Shane Mage wrote: On Jun 20, 2014, at 8:00 PM, Louis Proyect wrote: On 6/20/14 7:49 PM, Shane Mage via Marxism wrote: As your posting equally vindicates the view that rrrevolutionaries like your good self share many common interests with the takfiris. You are replying to an Arab Marxist, Shane. Anyone (even a Mao or a Zizek) can style himself a Marxist. I was once expelled from a professedly Marxist groupuscule (one that was later to inspire your conception of marxism) simply for rejecting their going-over to the Stalinist apologetics of Pablo(Raptis)/Germain(Mandel), and the frères Castro. Marxism is as Marxism does. Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Regarding my recent piece on ISIS
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 11:35 AM, Greg McDonald gregm...@gmail.com wrote: In the 2nd paragraph you write: They go back a long ways and are tied to the reality that this system of robbing the many to enrich the few creates economic crisis in which nobody can buy what they are selling. This gave us our most recent economic crisis and it also gave us the Great Depression of the 1930's. You are basically stating economic crisis is caused by a lack of purchasing power, whereas some others would argue economic crisis of capitalism is caused by overproduction. I would argue that underconsumption and overproduction are two sides of the same coin. The problem isn't that too much is being produced if the measure is the capability of generating that much social production, obviously, because it is being produced, or that the product isn't socially required. The problem is that it isn't being sold. Anyway I meant nobody can buy what they are selling to be a metaphor that was also accurate per se. Anyway, I think losing that section in a rewrite makes sense for a different placement. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Hezbollah's Al-Manar network praising Joe Biden
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == That I would be called a jihadist sympathizer, I never imagined would happen. As they say, politics makes strange bed fellows, I would say paranoid politics accuses stranger bed fellows. And this is where I would feel guilty, and argue by going on and on about how you're drawing a false dichotomy and how jihadists are serving the counter revolutionary interests of Gulf States and the gulf bourgeoisie. I won't do that. So, speaking to someone like you in terms of class analysis amounts to no avail, but I'll try. The Assad regime is one known marked by terror. Even its Syrian supporters know that. Many of them openly say that Assad isn't violent enough. Minus the terror of the tanks and air power (except Hama 1982) , the regime has been doing what it's doing now has been doing for 34 years systematically and behind closed doors. For fuck's sake, even the most hard line Arab Baathists acknowledge that this regime is one of terror. Or as they would call it: necessary terror. I was discussing this subject with a Syrian friend once, and he remarked to me that a proverb that probably every Syrian knows is the walls have ears. He said the first time he heard this was from his 3 grade teacher. What does it say about a society like that when young children are taught to be careful what comes of out mouth? Terror doesn't come in 45-second videos of bearded men chopping their opponents' heads off and shouting Allahu Akbar. It comes from organized State power with its prisons, wards, schools and indoctrinated functionaries. Rebel groups have shown impressive ways to raise funding, get weapons, organize and recruit. I'm pretty sure they could set up a good PR team, but they're not interested of winning the support of a well-meaning liberal in Colorado or Beirut. The most power hungry rebels happen to be the jihadists, and notice that their videos of executions and torture aren't shot by some courageous NBC reporter, but by themselves. Theirs is a local struggle and it's a classic case of using force and intimidation to demoralize opponents and generate a monopoly of fear and power. They want their power to be visible to show where is the power emanating from. The Assad regime doesn't need this. But its violence and terror are quieter, more diffused and invisible. I mean, this is elementary power 101; terror (and propaganda) is used because it works. I condemn this of course, but that would be like condemning JP Morgan Chase for making hefty profits from risky investments. They do it because it's a natural law in the system it exists. I knew someone who was tortured in Bashar Al Assad's jails. So too was his father, but in Hafez Al Assad's jails. Something is unnatural about having a son who gets tortured by the son of the man who tortured you. How's that for some necessary terror? Stories of men watching their wives being raped by security agents and leaving your country never finding out which prison your son was sent to should be more important to taking a position on this conflict rather than putting a minus wherever the US puts a plus. On Jun 20, 2014, at 7:49 PM, Shane Mage shm...@pipeline.com wrote: On Jun 20, 2014, at 11:34 AM, Anas via Marxism wrote: This vindicates the view that the US and Iran share many common interests in the Middle East. As your posting equally vindicates the view that rrrevolutionaries like your good self share many common interests with the takfiris. Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
