Re: [Marxism] Israel moves closer to a single-state solution
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Sep 2, 2014, at 12:43 AM, Dayne Goodwin via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: I think that the discussion on the Israeli 'right' which Marv shared with us, is discussion about how an enlarged Israel could still keep the remaining Palestinians legally repressed as it already is doing in fully Israel controlled territory. It might come to pass that Israel has to do something like this for some time while it still presses steadily forward with ethnic cleansing, just as it works steadily now to take control of remaining Palestinian land within the 1948 borders and press remaining Palestinians to emigrate. That will depend on whether it becomes necessary for the Zionists to do so. Indigenous populations are not always liquidated or expelled; many remain subordinated and segregated within the boundaries of the colonial settler state after having been driven off the best land. I suppose you could describe this as a kind of internal ethnic cleansing. But the most fascistic Zionists have to take into account that Israel, a latecomer to colonialism in an age when this is no longer the norm, is under the microscope and international political and economic pressure can be brought to bear against it when its brutal treatment of the Palestinians becomes especially egregious and arouses world opinion. I think the right-wing Zionists are counting on the birthrate of their religious fundamentalist base outstripping that of the West Bank Palestinians coupled with the fact there is no way they are going to include Gaza or readmit the Palestinian refugee masses outside the occupied territories into a Greater Israel. This all presupposes, of course, that no threatening third intifada or war with neighbouring states erupts in which case both the necessity and pretext for further mass expulsion would quickly reappear on the agenda. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Self slaps Orwell
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Who IS this asshole? Will who? By the way, everyone IMO should be reading Burmese Days. On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 12:22 AM, Gregory Adler via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I have posted this because I enjoyed Selfs takedown of Orwell's impoverishing view of language and it is worth reminding ourselves that Orwell-whatever his virtues- comes finally to a sort of leftish little-Englander imperialist position in politics ( yes that is contradictory but so is life) http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28971276 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Part Time Workers PBS News
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Finally a good story from the dreadful PBS News Hour http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/part-time-workers-suffer-instability-long-hours-make-ends-meet/ Best, Brian McKenna Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Brazil - a left challenge to Rousseff
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.salon.com/2014/09/01/how_this_politician_could_help_save_the_planet/?source=newsletter Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Brazil - a left challenge to Rousseff
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 9/2/14 11:46 AM, Dennis Brasky via Marxism wrote: http://www.salon.com/2014/09/01/how_this_politician_could_help_save_the_planet/?source=newsletter I have grown skeptical of Marina Silva after seeing her endorsed by some unsavory Wall Street types. Yes, she is good on environmental issues but she is committed apparently to neoliberal reforms, not that the Workers Party is any bargain. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Brazil - a left challenge to Rousseff
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Marina Silva is another option for the Brazilian right. She does not have a single concrete proposal. In her demagogic discourses she always promises a government for all. And she's not so green, The left-wing candidate Luciana Genro challenged Marina Silva yesterday in a national TV debate to choose one side: the workers' or the capitalists' side. But Marina says this is a discourse of the old left, and that she represents a new politics. Besides all that, she's an evangelical committed to the most backward groups and political positions related to gay marriage, homophobia, abortion, the teaching of creationism in schools, etc. Greetings from Brazil, Glauber 2014-09-02 13:08 GMT-03:00 Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 9/2/14 11:46 AM, Dennis Brasky via Marxism wrote: http://www.salon.com/2014/09/01/how_this_politician_could_ help_save_the_planet/?source=newsletter I have grown skeptical of Marina Silva after seeing her endorsed by some unsavory Wall Street types. Yes, she is good on environmental issues but she is committed apparently to neoliberal reforms, not that the Workers Party is any bargain. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/ options/marxism/glauberataide%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Brazil - a left challenge to Rousseff
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Thanks for the clarification - I thought it was too good to be true! On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Glauber Ataide via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: Marina Silva is another option for the Brazilian right. She does not have a single concrete proposal. In her demagogic discourses she always promises a government for all. And she's not so green, The left-wing candidate Luciana Genro challenged Marina Silva yesterday in a national TV debate to choose one side: the workers' or the capitalists' side. But Marina says this is a discourse of the old left, and that she represents a new politics. Besides all that, she's an evangelical committed to the most backward groups and political positions related to gay marriage, homophobia, abortion, the teaching of creationism in schools, etc. Greetings from Brazil, Glauber 2014-09-02 13:08 GMT-03:00 Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu: I have grown skeptical of Marina Silva after seeing her endorsed by some unsavory Wall Street types. Yes, she is good on environmental issues but she is committed apparently to neoliberal reforms, not that the Workers Party is any bargain. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Our comrade Bala is no more” - International Viewpoint - online socialist magazine
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == He was a leading Trotskyist in Sri Lanka. http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article3572utm_source=twitterfeedutm_medium=facebook Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Israel moves closer to a single-state solution
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Interesting discussion, though I also know that the human suffering at the heart of the Palestinian struggle weighs upon all of us in this thread. We are all aware of that, despite possible differences. My analysis springs from a realization that all structures of oppression and domination rest upon a layer of what I call dirty business - torture, assassinations, beatings, spies, planting of evidence, informers, arrest without trial etc. Those in charge of dirty business are generally kept away from the limelight. Occasionally they are punished when the system needs to look respectable. What has happened in Israel is that the peddlers of dirty business now run the government. They are out there in the open for everyone to see in all their filthy racist glory. As I have frequently pointed out, there is no more Ben Gurion or Golda Meir to make the Zionist project look half decent. Why the thugs are out there in charge of things, I am not sure. It speaks to me of a crisis of Zionism. I can only think that the political conditions necessary for the fulfillment of the Zionist dream no longer exist. That is why that, like the Apartheid regime in South Africa, Israel is fast becoming a pariah. Nonetheless, there is an inner logic to Zionism and it cannot be stopped. The idea of a two state solution is the last chance for Zionism to become acceptable, but it is being sabotaged repeatedly by the Israeli government.. The stealing of Arab land was always the core meaning of Zionism - always. Ethnic cleansing was also always apart of that. I think this is what Richard Seymour means when he talks of the process of auto-radicalization at work within Zionism. It is not for me to tell the Palestinians how they should wage their struggle. However, I do agree with the position advanced on the Electronic Intifada website of dissolving the Oslo structures. That could then initiate a struggle for democratic rights within Israel. The experience of Northern Ireland shows that a campaign for something such as One vote: One value cannot be accommodated within an Apartheid state. In the mean time our hopes must be pinned on the visibly deepening commitment of young Arabs to the Palestinian cause. comradely Gary On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Michael Karadjis via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == What these developments highlight is that one-state is not inherently superior over two states in all cases. Both have their dangers, both can be Zionist or non-Zionist versions. Arguably, two states are not viable as a long-term solution, but before getting to a full-scale solution, any number of options are possible as stages in struggle. The idea of the Palestinians achieving independent political authority in a West Bank-Gaza-Jerusalem state, via a mixture of military, civil, diplomatic etc struggle (as, let's say, a temporary stage towards dismantling Israeli apartheid), may seem unrealistic, but I doubt it is less realistic than getting a one-state solution of a democratic type any time soon. Probably more realistic. But perhaps less realistic than this Zionist version of one-state. Where the one-state solution is not South Africa at end of apartheid in 1994 but South Africa at onset of it in 1948, with the difference that the Palestinians will be locked in as a permanent minority via ethnic cleansing, denial of return etc, thus without even the potential of South Africa's Black majority. Watch what you wish for. -Original Message- From: Marv Gandall via Marxism Sent: Tuesday, September 2, 2014 9:20 PM To: Michael Karadjis Subject: Re: [Marxism] Israel moves closer to a single-state solution == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Sep 2, 2014, at 12:43 AM, Dayne Goodwin via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: I think that the discussion on the Israeli 'right' which Marv shared with us, is discussion about how an enlarged Israel could still keep the remaining Palestinians legally repressed as it already is doing in fully Israel controlled territory. It might come to pass that Israel has to do something like this for some time while it still presses steadily forward with ethnic cleansing, just as it works steadily now to take control of remaining Palestinian land within the 1948 borders and press remaining Palestinians to emigrate. That will
[Marxism] Ireland. 20 Years from the IRA ceasefire
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The ghost of promises past: 20 years since the IRA ceasefire The 20th anniversary of the IRA ceasefire that began the movement to the current peace settlement arrived on August 31st. It has been marked by a number of commentaries. Almost all are fervently in support of the settlement, yet nearly all are marked by a deep disillusionment and disappointment and also a recognition that, despite continued support from the major political forces, the political structures are in crisis and are likely to collapse in a short period of time. http://www.socialistdemocracy.org/RecentArticles/Recent20YearsSinceTheIRACeasefire.html John McA Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Letter to University of Illinois Chancellor Regarding Salaita Case
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == From the American Historical Association. http://blog.historians.org/2014/09/letter-to-university-of-illinois-chancellor-regarding-salaita/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Michael Sam: Out of the Closet, Out of the NFL? | The Nation
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.thenation.com/blog/181434/michael-sam-out-closet-out-nfl Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Israel joins axis of resistance
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/business/israel-signs-400-million-deal-to-sell-spy-drones-to-russia-1.318972 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] FARC-EP and PKK in conversation
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == PKK, the Workers Party of Kurdistán: many people know their name, few really know what their struggle is about. www.farc-epeace.org had the opportunity to speak with two representatives of the PKK's Party of Women's Liberation (PAJK), Zelal Dersim and Asia Dicle, about the situation in the Middle-East, Islamic State, the role of the United States, the peace process with the Turkish government and, last but not least, the PKK struggle for freedom ... http://farc-epeace.org/index.php/what-you-should-know/item/512-part-i-the-double-standards-of-the-western-world-according-to-pkk.html http://farc-epeace.org/index.php/what-you-should-know/item/514-part-ii-is-seen-through-the-eyes-of-pkk-guerrilla-forces.html -- Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Knock, knock - you're dead: the militarisation of the police in the Land of the Free
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/09/03/knock-knock-youre-dead-the-militarisation-of-the-police-force-in-the-land-of-the-free/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Columbia Law Professor reads U. of Illinois the riot act | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://louisproyect.org/2014/09/03/columbia-law-professor-reads-u-of-illinois-the-riot-act/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Knock, knock - you're dead: the militarisation of the police in the Land of the Free
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 5:14 AM, Philip Ferguson via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/09/03/knock-knock-youre-dead-the-militarisation-of-the-police-force-in-the-land-of-the-free/ I always wonder about this kind of thing, though. To be sure, the militarization of police is a Very Bad Thing, and one on which I frown. But has it actually made them more any racist, violent, or likely to injure and/or kill you than they were before? I haven't crunched the numbers. But I strongly, strongly doubt it. The Redline post writes of Pennsylvania in 1905 – where previously there would have been strong identification of officers drawn from local communities with the workers they live with. In that case, it might even be true. I don't know. But there's a strong undercurrent of Norman Rockwell-esque bullshit in a lot of left discourse around militarization, which implicitly, when not explicitly, hearkens back to some mythical golden age of caring neighborhood officers we all know perfectly well never existed for most. -- Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Knock, knock - you're dead: the militarisation of the police in the Land of the Free
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Joe's cautionary notes are crucial. When Ferguson broke a million activists we're saying a) cops are militarized like never before, and b) all their gear and training is from Israel, and c): a and b And I repeatedly ranted on facebook about how ahistorical and inaccurate that was. Yes, policing evolves. But noting carefully how, when, where and why -- and when NOT-- is crucial for knowing how to fight back. Otherwise all the hoo-ha about militarization will become for some an excuse not to fight. On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:35 PM, Joseph Catron via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 5:14 AM, Philip Ferguson via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/09/03/knock-knock-youre-dead-the-militarisation-of-the-police-force-in-the-land-of-the-free/ I always wonder about this kind of thing, though. To be sure, the militarization of police is a Very Bad Thing, and one on which I frown. But has it actually made them more any racist, violent, or likely to injure and/or kill you than they were before? I haven't crunched the numbers. But I strongly, strongly doubt it. The Redline post writes of Pennsylvania in 1905 – where previously there would have been strong identification of officers drawn from local communities with the workers they live with. In that case, it might even be true. I don't know. But there's a strong undercurrent of Norman Rockwell-esque bullshit in a lot of left discourse around militarization, which implicitly, when not explicitly, hearkens back to some mythical golden age of caring neighborhood officers we all know perfectly well never existed for most. -- Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Gaza launches rubble bucket challenge
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://guardianlv.com/2014/08/gaza-launched-rubble-bucket-challenge-to-raise-awareness-video/#d3KJdHlSvm0x2HfZ.99 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Knock, knock - you're dead: the militarisation of the police in the Land of the Free
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I think the attitude of the police has definitely changed in that they are far less likely to be conciliatory or even civil. The equipment is that of an army of occupation and it does carry a distinct attitude about the people whose neighborhoods you are occupying. This effects some parts of the police forces more than others, of course, but I do think it's been a bit different. There was the striking clip of the cop in Ferguson talking about the citizens arrayed against him as animals.. The sentiment may be time-honored, but the open contempt saying it on camera is remarkable. Mark L Sent from my Windows Phone From: Andrew Pollack via Marxism Sent: 9/2/2014 10:59 PM To: Mark Lause Subject: Re: [Marxism] Knock, knock - you're dead: the militarisation of the police in the Land of the Free == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Joe's cautionary notes are crucial. When Ferguson broke a million activists we're saying a) cops are militarized like never before, and b) all their gear and training is from Israel, and c): a and b And I repeatedly ranted on facebook about how ahistorical and inaccurate that was. Yes, policing evolves. But noting carefully how, when, where and why -- and when NOT-- is crucial for knowing how to fight back. Otherwise all the hoo-ha about militarization will become for some an excuse not to fight. On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:35 PM, Joseph Catron via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 5:14 AM, Philip Ferguson via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/09/03/knock-knock-youre-dead-the-militarisation-of-the-police-force-in-the-land-of-the-free/ I always wonder about this kind of thing, though. To be sure, the militarization of police is a Very Bad Thing, and one on which I frown. But has it actually made them more any racist, violent, or likely to injure and/or kill you than they were before? I haven't crunched the numbers. But I strongly, strongly doubt it. The Redline post writes of Pennsylvania in 1905 – where previously there would have been strong identification of officers drawn from local communities with the workers they live with. In that case, it might even be true. I don't know. But there's a strong undercurrent of Norman Rockwell-esque bullshit in a lot of left discourse around militarization, which implicitly, when not explicitly, hearkens back to some mythical golden age of caring neighborhood officers we all know perfectly well never existed for most. -- Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/markalause%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
