[Marxism] The Green Party vote
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Based on the TV coverage at this moment, we are looking at a Trump victory. It may turn out that the Green Party vote was irrelevant in the outcome. That doesn't mean that the discussion we had was pointless. But perhaps the bigger discussion is why Trump could win. The left has failed to build a substantive alternative. Union struggles are at a low ebb. And, speaking as an outsider, it seems that the bigger part of the black leadership is tied to the Democratic Party. The struggle continues. ken h _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [pen-l] Is It Time to Abandon GDP?
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * An excerpt from "Is It Time to Abandon GDP?" by Edoardo Campanella > Rather than dismissing GDP, it would be wiser to refine it and combine > the information it contains with other socioeconomic indicators, > including GNH. Statisticians should focus on placing a monetary value on > environmental depletion and free digital services, collecting better > household data for disposable income, giving more weight to quality > changes, and building so-called satellite accounts to measure non-market > activities. This won't solve the problem; it's an attempted neo-liberal solution to one of the problems of neo-liberalism. Campanella would collect information on a variety of issue, but he would still aggregate them into a single index. But any single index would have most of the problems of the GDP. No single numerical index can provide an appropriate measure of the economy. An approximate useful natural measure of the economy would require keeping several indices distinct, and not aggregating them into a corrected GDP. Trying to run things according to a corrected GDP is like trying to eliminate exploitation by having monetary prices reflect the "true value" of things. Campanella connects the idea of a corrected GDP to putting a monetary value on environmental depletion. This is a common idea among various would-be ecosocialists and the Green Party who hold that carbon pricing (such as the carbon tax) can be one of the main effective tools to deal with global warming. This is a neo-liberal solution, also advocated by the World Bank and the IMF; they are fond of such things as the carbon tax and cap and trade. It is a feature of our time that would-be socialists, who regard themselves as the most fierce opponents of the Washington Consensus and neo-liberalism, advocate the favorite environmental solution, carbon pricing, of the World Bank and IMF. Marx advocated that the basic problem of capitalism wasn't that it didn't trade things at their proper value; on the contrary, the capitalist evils resulted from such trading. To try to overcome capitalism and evils by replacing value by true or corrected value was like trying to overcome religion by elevating the true Pope. The law of value was the law of exploitation, not the law of overcoming exploitation. And it is also the law of destroying the environment. I wrote a three-part series in 2000-2001 debunking the idea of there being a single natural unit for economic planning, whether the dollar, the labor content, or any single unit. (http://www.communistvoice.org/00LaborHour.html). Part one of the series concentrates on whether the labor content (as specified by the labor theory of value) is the natural unit of economic calculcation, and is available at http://www.communistvoice.org/25cLaborHour.html Part Three deals in part with various passages from Marx and Engels, and corrects some fashionable misinterpretations of what they are saying. See http://www.communistvoice.org/27cLaborHour3.html -- Joseph Green _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] the coming times
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I can see it all now. The tide of sycophancy is about to be loosed. President Trump will be the man with the common touch; the man who calls a spade a nr; the down to earth bloke who gets things (and people) done. All the tropes of reality TV will be enacted in reality. Humanity is about to be told "You're fired". Comradely Gary _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] interim thoughts
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The message from voters appears to be that inequality and gigantic business and government are recognized pretty much for what they are - anti-little guy. And with both Trump and Sanders getting out the message that Hillary was the big business candidate, and inequality getting much press over the past few years, those messages have probably been dominant, won't go away and, while many states are not yet decided Hillary has a fight on her hands, And we don't discount that Donald Trump, to the surprise of almost everyone and for most pundits still unaccountably, won the Republican nomination, hands down, going away. Misunderestimated, as GWB had it. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] that election
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Mark wrote: So we might wind up with an American Brexit vote. But it will be the difference between the cold and pneumonia. For the US to have a Brexit moment is surely qualitatively different from the UK event. comradely Gary _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Current New York Times projections . . . .
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Clinton likely to wind up a few percentage points ahead in the popular vote, but Trump likely to win in the Electoral College (79% chance of winning at this moment). So we might wind up with an American Brexit vote. http://www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Today’s populism is a fusion of resentments
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/todays-populism-is-a-fusion-of-resentments/article32709233/ Ian Buruma is Professor of Democracy, Human Rights, and Journalism at Bard College, and the author of Year Zero: A History of 1945. The Tea Party in the United States would have been relatively marginal without powerful backers and demagogues. And these are often newly rich men who share their followers’ bitterness. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/us-elections-868-fewer-polling-stations-purged-rolls-and-armed-intimidation-squads
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[Marxism] Fwd: Don’t Vote Strategically | thecurrentmoment
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * https://thecurrentmoment.wordpress.com/2016/11/08/dont-vote-strategically/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Birobidzhan | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Thirteen years ago I had the good fortune to review a documentary titled “L’Chayim, Comrade Stalin” by Klezmer musician Yale Strom that served as an introduction to the Jewish Autonomous Region of the USSR that Stalin declared in 1934. My review began: When he was a young boy, Yale Strom noticed two “sidukah” (charity) boxes in his father’s shop. One was the omnipresent blue Jewish National Fund box intended for Israel that my own father kept in his fruit store. The other was targeted for Birobidzhan, the Jewish Autonomous Region that Stalin decreed in 1932. His curiosity about the lesser-known Jewish homeland became the seed for his documentary “L’Chayim Comrade Stalin,” now showing at the Quad Cinema in NYC. Based on interviews with current and past residents and archival material, including a altogether charming Soviet feature film of the period promoting settlement, the film not only sheds light on an under-documented aspect of Stalinist rule, it also inspires a variety of reactions to the “Jewish Question.” (Strom utilizes a graphic of these two words writ large in red repeatedly through the film as a kind of leitmotif.) Most of the older veterans of Birobidzhan make clear that the project tapped into youthful idealism. Combining a belief in communism with a desire to create a cultural homeland for the Jews, they came to the Siberian hinterland with great hopes. Despite the fact that anti-Semitism prompted Stalin to create the settlement in a geographically remote area, the settlers did not necessarily view this as a kind of internal exile. Stephen F. Cohen points out eloquently in his biography of Bukharin that Stalin’s despotic “revolution from above” did not preclude a kind of egalitarian zeal from bubbling to the surface. Despite repression, many people felt that they were on a great adventure to build a new society, including the Jews who came to Birobidzhan. Clearly, Birobidzhan continues to grip the imagination of filmmakers, artists and scholars based on recent works I have had a chance to examine. full: https://louisproyect.org/2016/11/08/birobidzhan/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Should the left try to take over the Democratic Party?/Why are People Still Living in East Aleppo?/Absolutely Final Thoughts
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Ralph Johansen wrote: "On this sodden election day here in the US, I'm reminded of this, which pretty much puts it in a nutshell. If we look beyond the dismal punditry out there about causes, consequences and the possibilities for change, I see this as one of the more profound, explicit statements of the problem and solution by John Smith in the final chapter of his fine book Imperialism in the 21st Century published by your invaluable MR Press, Michael." Thanks for the kind words, Ralph. John Smith's book is path-breaking I think. I kept after him for several years to make sure the book got done. John is a truly gracious and humble man, and a fine and rigorous scholar. It was an honor to work with him. He has another book in the works, which I am confident that we will publish. Solidarity, Michael _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] New theory of gravity might explain dark matter
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://phys.org/news/2016-11-theory-gravity-dark.html _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Mikheil Saakashvili Resigns Post in Ukraine, Citing Corruption
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * NY Times, Nov. 8 2016 Mikheil Saakashvili Resigns Post in Ukraine, Citing Corruption By IVAN NECHEPURENKO MOSCOW — Mikheil Saakashvili, a former president of Georgia who was brought into the Ukraine government to set an example of transparency and clean government, resigned on Monday and accused Ukraine’s president of supporting corruption. Mr. Saakashvili, who was appointed governor of the Black Sea region of Odessa by President Petro O. Poroshenko in May 2015, said he was leaving because of the central government’s unrelenting obstruction of his efforts to root out graft. “The president personally supports two clans,” Mr. Saakashvili told a group of journalists. “Odessa can only develop once Kiev will be freed from these bribe takers, who directly patronize organized crime and lawlessness.” In a terse statement, Mr. Poroshenko’s office said it would accept Mr. Saakashvili’s resignation once it had been submitted by the cabinet. In Odessa, Mr. Saakashvili and a team of young reformists tried to tackle the acceptance of bribes in the corruption-plagued customs service and to make government services more responsive and transparent. Yet, government officials in Kiev thwarted those efforts, Mr. Saakashvili said, because they interfered with the various enrichment schemes that allowed many of them to amass fortunes. Mr. Saakashvili said his plan to open a new customs service center in Odessa was undone when the money allocated for its refurbishment was stolen. He noted that some top-level government figures listed millions of dollars in savings in cash and other assets in financial disclosures that were mandated by the International Monetary Fund. One minister declared bottles of wine worth thousands of dollars each. Mr. Saakashvili, a bitter opponent of Russia and its president, Vladimir V. Putin, was one of several foreign politicians and specialists who were brought to Ukraine after the 2014 pro-Western revolution to start a broad modernization of the country. But there was always deep skepticism about whether Ukraine was capable of such a transformation, and many of those figures have since become disillusioned and resigned. In February, the economy minister, Aivaras Abromavicius stepped down, saying that he did not want to act as a “smoke screen” for corruption. The American-born finance minister, Natalie A. Jaresko, left the Ukrainian government in April. Taming corruption was widely seen as crucial for proving the legitimacy of Ukraine’s pro-Western leadership, especially in contrast with Mr. Putin’s Russia. In October, Mr. Saakashvili’s political party in Georgia suffered a painful defeat in parliamentary elections, ending the prospect of his return to that country, where he faces multiple charges that he says are politically motivated. Standing in front of Odessa’s seaport, Mr. Saakashvili signaled that he would continue to be involved in Ukrainian politics. One of his allies, Ukraine’s former deputy prosecutor David Sakvarelidze, recently started a new political party that cites Mr. Saakashvili as its “ideologist. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Two years of the ‘Irish slaves’ myth: racism, reductionism and the tradition of diminishing the transatlantic slave trade | openDemocracy
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Excellent post - thanks! On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 12:21 PM, Andrew Stewart via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > > https://opendemocracy.net/beyondslavery/liam-hogan/two- > years-of-irish-slaves-myth-racism-reductionism-and-tradition-of-diminis > > > Best regards, > Andrew Stewart > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/ > options/marxism/dmozart1756%40gmail.com > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: What will happen to the "political revolution"? | SocialistWorker.org
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * You can't call for a "political revolution," then back the mainstream candidate representing everything you called for a revolution against, and then expect to summon the original sentiment back into existence once it's "safe" to do so. If anything, what the Sanders moment showed was that the left-wing sentiment in this country needs to be organized in order to deepen its roots and forge a new path. independent of the two-party system and its artificially narrow range of choices. That sentiment hasn't gone away. But politics abhors a vacuum, and right now, the vacuum is being filled by the right. Whether Trump wins or loses, the far right has exploited this moment to project its voices and rally its forces. By contrast, our side has, by and large, remained hamstrung by the refusal to speak and act independently of the Democrats. full: https://socialistworker.org/2016/11/08/what-will-happen-to-the-political-revolution _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] market, shmarket
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * This is so tiresome. Here for the 100th time is someone who's ecstatic at having found the "solution" to the socialist calculation problem (although it's clear from his article he hasn't followed that problem very closely): all we need is the help of the market, for both big issues (climate change) and small! Frase sets up a straw man by critiquing the admittedly clunky "parecon" system. But he says nothing about such concepts as "articulated self-management" (Mandel) in which decisions are made at the lowest level possible, and at every level are the subject of debate in a democratically-elected council. And most irritatingly, he says nothing about the technology available to facilitate such planning, for instance computers used by logistics behemoths like Wa-Mart to PLAN in a non-market fashion restocking shelves, warehouse storage, distribution costs, etc., data which then is available to production bodies (see Joe Allen's articles on that). Nor does he say anything about the consumption choices made every day by millions of people on Amazon and similar sites -- all of which are potential inputs for a nonmarket, democratic planned analysis. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/11/voting-democracy-socialism-representation/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Should the left try to take over the Democratic Party?/Why are People Still Living in East Aleppo?/Absolutely Final Thoughts
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Michael Yates wrote What hope is there for radical change in the United States. Not much. Jacobin just posted an essay wondering what we can do to make sure that the choices we face in the 2036 election won't be as bleak as the ones we face today. By 2036, most of the Brooklyn intellectuals around Jacobin will have long since moved to the right, so the question will be be moot. On this sodden election day here in the US, I'm reminded of this, which pretty much puts it in a nutshell. If we look beyond the dismal punditry out there about causes, consequences and the possibilities for change, I see this as one of the more profound, explicit statements of the problem and solution by John Smith in the final chapter of his fine book Imperialism in the 21st Century published by your invaluable MR Press, Michael. This passage is vibrant with possibilities, both terrifying and hopeful. Among other things, Smith accounts in his book for the prolonged hiatus in western radicalism by the "vast global shift of production to low-wage countries, with the result that profits, prosperity, and social peace in imperialist countries have become qualitatively more dependent upon the proceeds of super-exploitation of living labor in countries like Vietnam, Mexico, Bangladesh, and China. It follows that this is not just a financial crisis, and it is not just another crisis of capitalism. It is a crisis of imperialism." That plus capital's very successful prevention of labor mobility so far, despite which millions are at extreme peril managing each year to migrate. Along with a huge expansion of domestic, corporate, and sovereign debt, the global shift of production gave the outmoded and destructive capitalist system a respite that lasted for barely twenty-five years. The “financial crisis” that brought this to an end is a secondary infection, a sickness caused by the medicine imbibed to relieve a deeper malaise, one for which capitalism has no alternative remedies. Exponentially increasing indebtedness succeeded in containing the overproduction crisis, but it has brought the global financial system to the point of collapse. Outsourcing has boosted profits of firms across the imperialist world and sustained the living standards of its inhabitants, but this has led to deindustrialization, has intensified capitalism’s imperialist and parasitic tendencies, and has piled up global imbalances that threaten to plunge the world into destructive trade wars. All of the factors that produced this crisis—increasing debt, asset bubbles, global imbalances—are being amplified by the effects of the emergency measures designed to contain it. The irony of zero–interest rate policy and quantitative easing is that their greatest success—preserving the value of financial assets and thus the wealth of those who own these financial assets—blocks the only possible capitalist solution to the crisis, namely a massive cancelation and reassignment of claims on social wealth asset values. QE and ZIRP—Zero Interest Rate Policy, or “crack cocaine for the financial markets,” in a memorable phrase uttered by a Goldman Sachs banker —are therefore means of postponing the inevitable, of kicking the can down the road while waiting and hoping for the growth engine to restart. Although the global crisis first manifested itself in the sphere of finance and banking, what’s now engulfing the world is far more than a financial crisis, it is the inevitable and now unpostponable outcome of the contradictions of capitalist production itself. In just three decades, capitalist production and its inherent contradictions have been utterly transformed by the vast global shift of production to low-wage countries, with the result that profits, prosperity, and social peace in imperialist countries have become qualitatively more dependent upon the proceeds of super-exploitation of living labor in countries like Vietnam, Mexico, Bangladesh, and China. It follows that this is not just a financial crisis, and it is not just another crisis of capitalism. It is a crisis of imperialism. (pp313-314) The interaction between living labor and nature is the source of all wealth. Capitalism’s frenzied exploitation of both has resulted not only in a grave social and economic crisis, but also in a spreading ecological catastrophe. Rising concentrations of CO2 in the atmosphere, along with the rest of the filth generated by capitalist
Re: [Marxism] Should the left try to take over the Democratic Party?/Why are People Still Living in East Aleppo?/Absolutely Final Thoughts
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Great points, Michael. The BBC article is just full of horrifying, touching, inspiring quotes. None of which the "left" Assadists care about or believe. This inhumane approach of course is intimately connected to the lesser evilism which is the main point of this thread, and has the same roots in the search for a condescending savior in the general absence of large, vibrant, diverse labor and other movements. Bless those rare but crucial exceptions... _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Should the left try to take over the Democratic Party?/Why are People Still Living in East Aleppo?/Absolutely Final Thoughts
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Louis's article in North Star is excellent. When I read the rubbish Ben Kunkel and Bhaskar Sunkara have written, making arguments that have been made for decades, and are even more foolish now than they were then, I want to just give up. What hope is there for radical change in the United States. Not much. Jacobin just posted an essay wondering what we can do to make sure that the choices we face in the 2036 election won't be as bleak as the ones we face today. By 2036, most of the Brooklyn intellectuals around Jacobin will have long since moved to the right, so the question will be be moot. Louis also posted an article from the BBC, asking why people are still living in East Aleppo. All of the Assad supporters (some open, some de facto) seem absolutely callous to the death and misery rained down on Syrians by Assad and Putin. It really does make you sick to contemplate this. Gary has written a fine screed on the stupidity of the lesser evil argument. We are either radicals or we are not. And as ee cummings had olaf say in his poem, there is some shit i will not eat. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Election coverage in Canada
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The US election is big news here. The first 20 minutes on CBC NewsWorld at 9:00 am EST was on the election. (The next item was on Prince Harry and the UK press. Or was that on CTV?) If you want to follow the election from outside the US, here are two sites. ken h http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-election-2016-coverage-cbc-news-radio-television-online-1.3831654 http://www.ctvnews.ca/ctv-news-channel _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Clay Claiborne on Syria and Jill Stein, responding to Louis on muftah.org
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Marx (and his US supporters in the Communist League) supported the Republicans because they represented a *revolutionary democratic* solution to slavery. This was in a period when Marx considered capitalism "progressive" against the slavocracy which represented a wholly different political economy. It is absolutely historically GROTESQUE to compare voting for Abraham Lincoln to Hillary Clinton. Are you stark raving mad, Thomas? David Walters _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Clay Claiborne on Syria and Jill Stein, responding to Louis on muftah.org
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 11/8/16 9:38 AM, DW via Marxism wrote: It is absolutely historically GROTESQUE to compare voting for Abraham Lincoln to Hillary Clinton. Are you stark raving mad, Thomas? Maybe I am missing something but Thomas cited an entirely different article by Marx that strictly opposed voting for bourgeois candidates: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/pipermail/marxism/2016-November/272775.html _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
