Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Greece: Phase Two | Jacobin
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I think there is a lot to be said for the wisdom of Oskar Lange, who made statements like the following from his article, Marxian economics and modern economic theory: If people want to anticipate the development of Capitalism over a long period, a knowledge of Marx is a much more effective starting point than a knowledge of [Friedrich von] Wieser, [Eugen von] Bohm-Bawerk, Vilfredo Pareto or even [Alfred] Marshall (although the last-named is in this respect much superior). But Marxian economics would be a poor basis for running a central bank or anticipating the effects of a change in the rate of discount. and [I]n providing a scientific basis for the current administration of the capitalist economy 'bourgeois' economics has developed a theory of equilibrium which can also serve as a basis for the current administration of a socialist economy. It is obvious that Marshallian economics offers more for the current administration of the economic system of Soviet Russia than Marxian economics does, though the latter is surely the more effective basis for anticipating the future of capitalism. BTW Lange also held John Maynard Keynes in pretty high regard as well. Jim Farmelant http://independent.academia.edu/JimFarmelant http://www.linkedin.com/in/jimfarmelant www.foxymath.com Learn or Review Basic Math -- From: Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Greece: Phase Two | Jacobin POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 3/14/15 12:35 PM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote: Michael Roberts takes on Lapavitsas: https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2015/03/14/greece-keynes-or-marx/ I plan to write something about this at some point. Lapavitsas swears by Keynes while Roberts swears at Keynes. Roberts is for Marxist economics when it comes to Greece but what exactly does that mean? What possible guidance could Capital offer when it comes to building socialism? Much of running a socialist state (postcapitalist, to be more exact) rests on pragmatism rather than Marxism. And this is not to speak of the precariousness of trying to build socialism in a single country even when it is immense and resource-rich as the USSR was in the 1920s. In the early 90s Cuba went through a special period that made the austerity in Greece look like the Garden of Eden by comparison, a result of the Soviet Union going capitalist. What in Marx's writings could solve the Cuban economic crisis? When a country relies on exports, it is the market that determines its success or failure--not the labor theory of value. Well, more to come... _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/farmelantj%40juno.com Protect what matters Floods can happen anywhere. Learn your risk and find an agent today. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3165/55046bb79dd686bb70353mp12vuc _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Greece: Phase Two | Jacobin
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * at the same time we don't want it to seem that the goal and the test of revolutionary socialism/ists is to be able to build socialism in one country On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 3/14/15 12:35 PM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote: Michael Roberts takes on Lapavitsas: https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2015/03/14/greece-keynes-or-marx/ I plan to write something about this at some point. Lapavitsas swears by Keynes while Roberts swears at Keynes. Roberts is for Marxist economics when it comes to Greece but what exactly does that mean? What possible guidance could Capital offer when it comes to building socialism? Much of running a socialist state (postcapitalist, to be more exact) rests on pragmatism rather than Marxism. And this is not to speak of the precariousness of trying to build socialism in a single country even when it is immense and resource-rich as the USSR was in the 1920s. In the early 90s Cuba went through a special period that made the austerity in Greece look like the Garden of Eden by comparison, a result of the Soviet Union going capitalist. What in Marx's writings could solve the Cuban economic crisis? When a country relies on exports, it is the market that determines its success or failure--not the labor theory of value. Well, more to come... _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/daynegoodwin%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Greece: Phase Two | Jacobin
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Michael Roberts takes on Lapavitsas: https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2015/03/14/greece-keynes-or-marx/ On Mar 12, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote: (Essential reading but I am disappointed that Lapavitsas does not provide more analysis on the ramifications of the Grexit he advocates. He also rejects the idea that the falling rate of profit explains Greece's troubles. That's something to think about. The FROP implies that there was a drop from some elevation where in fact the Greek economy never reached such a height. That fact, in my opinion, explains the tilt toward the Eurozone to begin with. It was an attempt to artificially stimulate an economy that was dysfunctional at its core.) --- Greece: Phase Two Greek MP Costas Lapavitsas on the economic barriers ahead for Syriza and the challenges of eurozone exit. by Sebastian Budgen Costas Lapavitsas https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/03/lapavitsas-varoufakis-grexit-syriza/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Greece: Phase Two | Jacobin
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 3/14/15 12:35 PM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote: Michael Roberts takes on Lapavitsas: https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2015/03/14/greece-keynes-or-marx/ I plan to write something about this at some point. Lapavitsas swears by Keynes while Roberts swears at Keynes. Roberts is for Marxist economics when it comes to Greece but what exactly does that mean? What possible guidance could Capital offer when it comes to building socialism? Much of running a socialist state (postcapitalist, to be more exact) rests on pragmatism rather than Marxism. And this is not to speak of the precariousness of trying to build socialism in a single country even when it is immense and resource-rich as the USSR was in the 1920s. In the early 90s Cuba went through a special period that made the austerity in Greece look like the Garden of Eden by comparison, a result of the Soviet Union going capitalist. What in Marx's writings could solve the Cuban economic crisis? When a country relies on exports, it is the market that determines its success or failure--not the labor theory of value. Well, more to come... _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
