Re: [Marxism] A Popeyes Chicken Sandwich Under Socialism

[John Edmundson via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Andrew wrote:
" A last note on how such socialization would happen: my guess is that
during
general strikes, instead of just setting up food banks for strikers in a
particular company or industry (as we've seen in recent strikes by teachers
et al.), that strikers will take over the thousands of restaurants -- and
keep them in public hands if the strikes are victorious."

Which is a nice idea. But short of "the strikes are victorious" meaning the
revolution is victorious, it won't happen. Site-occupying fast food workers
could hand out free or cheap food but the entire supply chain would have to
have been seized for anything approaching this to work. Also hopefully they
would improve the quality . . .

Cheers,
John

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 11:48 PM Andrew Pollack via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

>   POSTING RULES & NOTES  
> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
> *
>
> First to get a potential straw man out of the way: I find the article by
> Kampf-Lassin fairly tepid when it comes to speculating on post-revolution
> eating practices and institutions.
> But the article should be motivation for more wide-ranging speculation.
> For instance, Trotsky pointed out the impact of the low state of
> development on collective kitchens, as workers preferred home meals to
> poorly provisioned centers:
> https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/women/life/23_07_13.htm
> In the meantime mammoth chain restaurants, fast food and otherwise, have
> mushroomed under capitalism on a generally higher state of development from
> a technical standpoint. Going to an objectively-socialized restaurant is
> viewed generally as a treat (while also reducing time spent cooking at
> home).
> So the question is: What are we to do with them once they're socialized?
> A last note on how such socialization would happen: my guess is that during
> general strikes, instead of just setting up food banks for strikers in a
> particular company or industry (as we've seen in recent strikes by teachers
> et al.), that strikers will take over the thousands of restaurants -- and
> keep them in public hands if the strikes are victorious.
>
> >
> >
> >
> _
> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
> Set your options at:
> https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/johnedmundson4%40gmail.com
>


-- 
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from the goose
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] A Popeyes Chicken Sandwich Under Socialism

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

First to get a potential straw man out of the way: I find the article by
Kampf-Lassin fairly tepid when it comes to speculating on post-revolution
eating practices and institutions.
But the article should be motivation for more wide-ranging speculation.
For instance, Trotsky pointed out the impact of the low state of
development on collective kitchens, as workers preferred home meals to
poorly provisioned centers:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/women/life/23_07_13.htm
In the meantime mammoth chain restaurants, fast food and otherwise, have
mushroomed under capitalism on a generally higher state of development from
a technical standpoint. Going to an objectively-socialized restaurant is
viewed generally as a treat (while also reducing time spent cooking at
home).
So the question is: What are we to do with them once they're socialized?
A last note on how such socialization would happen: my guess is that during
general strikes, instead of just setting up food banks for strikers in a
particular company or industry (as we've seen in recent strikes by teachers
et al.), that strikers will take over the thousands of restaurants -- and
keep them in public hands if the strikes are victorious.

>
>
>
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] A Popeyes Chicken Sandwich Under Socialism

[MM via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

> On Aug 27, 2019, at 9:20 PM, DW via Marxism  
> wrote:
> 
> GM itself is not a problem,


This is a baseless claim, and an essentially meaningless generalization. It’s a 
bit like saying, “Mixing chemicals itself is not a problem” — as if the phrase 
“mixing chemicals” has a useful general meaning, without reference to which 
chemicals, where, and under what conditions. (“Guns don’t kill people….”)

Except that with GM you’re creating organisms that produce novel proteins (and 
not necessarily the proteins you wanted or anticipated, because protein 
transcription doesn’t follow the “one gene, one protein” dream on which the 
technology of GM is founded) with unknown allergenic and / or toxic effects, 
and that are capable of self-replicating, and that you may not be able to 
control if they exfiltrate the lab — capitalism or not.

“GM itself” is one of the riskiest things human beings have ever engaged in. To 
breezily declare it “not a problem” except for capitalism simply betrays a lack 
of familiarity with what it involves. 
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] A Popeyes Chicken Sandwich Under Socialism

[DW via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Ah, I see now. I suppose so. The entire anti-economodernist vegan community
appears to be pushing this lab-grown meat. I'm going to try it tomorrow
since I finally found a place that sells it. It is completely the wrong
direction to go in but it's not going away, I suspect. Sure...I can see
that statement as ecomodernist. What's the politically correct position
Louis on lab-grown meat (from soy beans mostly). I'm not against GM crops
except how they are used under capitalism. I'm all for the R under
regulations. The fad against them, and that's what it is, a fad, is not
based on much sound science in terms of health. GM itself is not a problem,
but it certainly is the way it's used (such as described in that excellent
article you posted yesterday on soy industry).

David
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] A Popeyes Chicken Sandwich Under Socialism

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

On 8/27/19 8:11 PM, DW via Marxism wrote:

Hardly "econmodernist". The article is an attack on the fast food
industry's labor standards.


I was referring to this: "If we can put the industry under public 
control, the lab-grown meat industry could help us towards this goal, too."


This lab-grown meat business is pure ecomodernism:

New technologies like genetically-modified (GM) crops and even “cultured 
meat” grown in clean laboratories from stem cells promise to reduce the 
acreage used to produce food even further — to the benefit of wilderness.


https://www.thesmartset.com/the-case-for-ecomodernism/
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] A Popeyes Chicken Sandwich Under Socialism

[DW via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Ecomodernist??? Me thinks our vaunted Moderator is eating too much fast
food. From the article:

"A more equitable and democratic food system would also have to transform
the modern factory-farming and meat industries, known for their cruelty

to workers and animals alike, as well as for wreaking havoc on the climate.
Up to 57 percent of all greenhouse-gas emissions stem

from the global food system, and the International Panel on Climate Change
has warned

that industrialized countries must reduce greenhouse emissions by up to 40
percent below 1990 levels to avoid
 climate devastation."

Hardly "econmodernist". The article is an attack on the fast food
industry's labor standards. "Ecomodernism" can now be used by anyone to
mean anything. Ugh. The review  in Jacobin is ok to good. I think he should
of spent some time on the issue of animal cruelty more and issues with "Big
Agriculture" since fast foods play such an important role in the
Imperialist commodity markets for things like soy beans. Also, he's wrong
about Popeyes. Everyone know In-and-Out Burger is the preimier "best" fast
food in the US!

David Walters
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] A Popeyes Chicken Sandwich Under Socialism

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

The latest ecomodernist bullshit from Jacobin.

https://jacobinmag.com/2019/08/popeyes-chicken-sandwich-fast-food-workers
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com