Re: [Marxism] Feminist site established to challenge gender self-ID legislation in New Zealand

[MM via Marxism]

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> On Nov 26, 2018, at 2:43 AM, Philip Ferguson  
> wrote:
> 
> So now feminists who defend women-only spaces are likened to Nazis or, at the 
> very least, Nazi enablers.
> 
> Unfortunately, this kind of nonsense pervades the responses to 
> gender-critical feminists although the most entitled of the biological males 
> who want access to women's spaces feel fairly unrestrained in issuing rape 
> threats, death threats, various other threats to gender-critical feminists, 
> try to get gender-critical feminists fired, censored, etc etc.
> 
> Why anyone on the left would want to enable this kind of behaviour directed 
> by biological males to women is odd indeed; although I guess women's rights 
> just comes way down the list of priorities for some left men, including a 
> load of the 'woke' ones.
> 
> Another site I'd recommend that defends women's rights and documents the 
> abuse (to put it mildly) that gener-critical feminists have been subject to 
> is Peak Trans: 
> https://www.peaktrans.org/ 
> 
> For some of the violent misogyny directed at gender-critical feminists by a 
> layer of trans, check out: 
> https://www.peaktrans.org/hate-from-trans-activists/ 
> 

All such bullying and harassment are toxic and should be vehemently opposed. 
But so should attempts at rationalizing traditional societal roles in the name 
of what’s “normal,” by claiming the space of “ordinary folks.” I realize this 
is unfamiliar and even uncomfortable terrain for many people, but it’s kind of 
astounding that someone who seems to see themselves as a thinker of the left 
could be so oblivious to the tyranny of inherited societal norms.
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Re: [Marxism] Feminist site established to challenge gender self-ID legislation in New Zealand

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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On 11/26/18 9:39 AM, David McDonald via Marxism wrote:


The nybooks article is behind a paywall.
_


How Ordinary Germans Did It
Christopher R. Browning JUNE 20, 2013 ISSUE

A Small Town Near Auschwitz: Ordinary Nazis and the Holocaust
by Mary Fulbrook
Oxford University Press, 421 pp., $34.95

Soldaten: On Fighting, Killing, and Dying: The Secret World War II 
Transcripts of German POWs
by Sönke Neitzel and Harald Welzer, translated from the German by 
Jefferson Chase

Knopf, 437 pp., $30.50

Growing consciousness of the Holocaust in both academic scholarship and 
society in general became evident in the late 1970s and intensified in 
the 1980s. Initially, important research focused on the different roles 
of Hitler, Nazi ideology, and the structure of the dictatorship in 
shaping the decision-making process that led to the Holocaust. Research 
also concentrated on the complicity of various professions and 
institutions in the Third Reich, and particularly on the SS. Still 
lacking was careful empirical study of how Nazi racial policy was also 
carried out by “ordinary” Germans.


Two events in the 1990s altered this situation. The first was the 
publication of my book Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and 
the Final Solution in Poland in 1992, quickly followed by Daniel 
Goldhagen’s Hitler’s Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the 
Holocaust in 1996. The second event was the exhibition of the Hamburg 
Institute of Social Research, “War of Annihilation: Crimes of the 
Wehrmacht 1941–1944,” which extensively toured Germany from 1995 to 1999 
and engendered both high attendance and considerable controversy. 
Ordinary Men and Hitler’s Willing Executioners overlapped in their focus 
on Reserve Police Battalion 101 as a test case because its commander had 
openly given his men—randomly conscripted, middle-aged reservists with a 
low rate of party membership and little police training and ideological 
indoctrination—the option not to participate in mass executions of Jews 
in Poland. Nonetheless the great majority did not avail themselves of 
this option.


Both books demonstrated that “ordinary” German men—and not just SS 
fanatics and ideologues, carefully selected and indoctrinated—had become 
mass murderers. But the two books differed significantly in trying to 
explain this phenomenon of noncoerced participation. I emphasized 
universal attributes of human nature and social-psychological factors 
shaping group dynamics, such as conformity, deference to authority, and 
adaptation to roles within an occupation unit stationed in enemy 
territory during wartime. Goldhagen emphasized German cultural 
particularity in the form of what he described as a deeply ingrained 
“eliminationist” anti-Semitism, which caused virtually all Germans to 
desire the death of the Jews and then to kill them with enthusiastic 
cruelty when given the personal opportunity.


Reserve Police Battalion 101 provided an exemplary case study to test 
and disprove assumptions about the factors often presumed necessary to 
explain individual participation in mass killing. Among those allegedly 
crucial factors were special selection by the Nazi authorities of those 
who would take part in the Holocaust, overt ideological commitment, 
harsh discipline and training, and coercion by means of binding orders 
and threatened punishment. None of these applied to the reserve 
policemen. But most of the ordinary German men who participated in the 
Nazi war effort and experienced the reality of the Nazi occupation of 
Europe did so in the armed forces, and not in the police battalions. 
Hence the explosive impact of the “Crimes of the Wehrmacht” exhibition 
in Germany. Despite two decades of scholarship to the contrary, the 
comforting postwar myth of the “clean Wehrmacht” had survived relatively 
intact in German popular consciousness into the mid-1990s.


The graphic photographs and chilling letters and documents in the 
Hamburg exhibition that portrayed the actions and attitudes of ordinary 
soldiers succeeded where scholarly books had not in finally establishing 
broader awareness that the horrific crimes of the German war and 
occupation in the East were not committed solely by, and known only to, 
the SS. The exhibition had some flaws. Some photographs turned out to 
have been falsely labeled and others upon closer inspection could not be 
verified; the letters and documents carefully selected for maximum shock 
effect may not have been representative in any statistical sense. But 
the overall lesson to the public was in line with decades of earlier 

Re: [Marxism] Feminist site established to challenge gender self-ID legislation in New Zealand

[David McDonald via Marxism]

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The nybooks article is behind a paywall.
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Re: [Marxism] Feminist site established to challenge gender self-ID legislation in New Zealand

[Philip Ferguson via Marxism]

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So now feminists who defend women-only spaces are likened to Nazis or, at
the very least, Nazi enablers.

Unfortunately, this kind of nonsense pervades the responses to
gender-critical feminists although the most entitled of the biological
males who want access to women's spaces feel fairly unrestrained in issuing
rape threats, death threats, various other threats to gender-critical
feminists, try to get gender-critical feminists fired, censored, etc etc.

Why anyone on the left would want to enable this kind of behaviour directed
by biological males to women is odd indeed; although I guess women's rights
just comes way down the list of priorities for some left men, including a
load of the 'woke' ones.

Another site I'd recommend that defends women's rights and documents the
abuse (to put it mildly) that gener-critical feminists have been subject to
is Peak Trans:
https://www.peaktrans.org/

For some of the violent misogyny directed at gender-critical feminists by a
layer of trans, check out:
https://www.peaktrans.org/hate-from-trans-activists/




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On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 8:08 PM MM  wrote:

> On Nov 26, 2018, at 1:40 AM, Philip Ferguson via Marxism <
> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
>
> https://speakupforwomen.nz/
>
>
> From the site:
>
> "Speak Up For Women is a diverse group of ordinary New Zealanders…”
>
> Here’s an awkward question: On what basis should people be allowed to
> “self-identify” as “ordinary”? Who gets to decide who counts as “ordinary”?
>
> "Growing consciousness of the Holocaust in both academic scholarship and
> society in general became evident in the late 1970s and intensified in the
> 1980s. Initially, important research focused on the different roles of
> Hitler, Nazi ideology, and the structure of the dictatorship in shaping the
> decision-making process that led to the Holocaust. Research also
> concentrated on the complicity of various professions and institutions in
> the Third Reich, and particularly on the SS. Still lacking was careful
> empirical study of how Nazi racial policy was also carried out by
> “ordinary” Germans.”
>
> How Ordinary Germans Did It
> https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2013/06/20/how-ordinary-germans-did-it/
>
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Feminist site established to challenge gender self-ID legislation in New Zealand

[MM via Marxism]

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> On Nov 26, 2018, at 1:40 AM, Philip Ferguson via Marxism 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://speakupforwomen.nz/ 


From the site:

"Speak Up For Women is a diverse group of ordinary New Zealanders…” 

Here’s an awkward question: On what basis should people be allowed to 
“self-identify” as “ordinary”? Who gets to decide who counts as “ordinary”?

"Growing consciousness of the Holocaust in both academic scholarship and 
society in general became evident in the late 1970s and intensified in the 
1980s. Initially, important research focused on the different roles of Hitler, 
Nazi ideology, and the structure of the dictatorship in shaping the 
decision-making process that led to the Holocaust. Research also concentrated 
on the complicity of various professions and institutions in the Third Reich, 
and particularly on the SS. Still lacking was careful empirical study of how 
Nazi racial policy was also carried out by “ordinary” Germans.”

How Ordinary Germans Did It
https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2013/06/20/how-ordinary-germans-did-it/


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[Marxism] Feminist site established to challenge gender self-ID legislation in New Zealand

[Philip Ferguson via Marxism]

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"Speak Up For Women is urgently defending the rights of women and girls, in
opposition to the Government’s proposal that a person’s sex should be a
question of choice, or self-identification, on birth certificates.

"We believe that women’s voices must be heard in the debate around self-ID."

https://speakupforwomen.nz/


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