Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greece, Venezuela and the prospects for a new left

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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I think Louis and I - even if for overlapping and not equivalent reasons -
can both appreciate Lenin's method here, in which he insists to the various
Caucasian Soviet Republics: "don't copy from us, you can go slower, you can
and must trade more with capitalist countries, you must irrigate" etc. etc.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1921/apr/14.htm


On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:14 AM, Louis Proyect  wrote:

> On 12/28/15 11:00 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote:
>
>> I think it's incumbent on Louis, or someone agreeing with him, to
>> explain why they think Eric Toussaint's proposals at the link are
>> impractical - and why they wouldn't be useful as transitional measures
>> (i.e. measures drawing the masses into action):
>> http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article4338
>>
>
> Transitional measures? They are posed as if such measures can be taken
> without consequence. I was deeply involved with Nicaragua solidarity for
> five years or so and can attest to the fact that imperialism can utterly
> knock an economically weak state off its feet. In the 1980s Nicaragua had
> the support of the USSR and European social democracies, especially Sweden.
> Despite that support, a combination of sanctions and counter-revolutionary
> violence made the Nicaraguans cry uncle. Today Greece could not even depend
> on such support. Furthermore, imperialism could just as easily turn Golden
> Dawn into an internal contra even though it demagogically supported Grexit,
> etc.
>
> As I stated in my article, both Marx and Lenin viewed the proletarian
> revolution as a European-wide event. If the USSR, with its vast resource
> base and powerful military, could not fend off imperialism, what were the
> prospects for a socialist revolution in Greece, the bombast of small groups
> like DEA notwithstanding?
>
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greece, Venezuela and the prospects for a new left

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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I think it's incumbent on Louis, or someone agreeing with him, to explain
why they think Eric Toussaint's proposals at the link are impractical - and
why they wouldn't be useful as transitional measures (i.e. measures drawing
the masses into action):
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article4338
p.s. I'm not sure what the excerpt from Lenin's "On Cooperatives" about
drawing in small peasants is trying to prove; months ago I cited this essay
as evidence for the plausibility of socialism (as a holding measure of
course for more revolutions).

On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> After an extended period of relative quiescence in which the North Star
> editorial board has been continuing to assess the progress (or lack
> thereof) toward the creation of radical, nonsectarian formations on the
> left, we hope to begin publishing relevant content again. To some extent,
> this is an unavoidable task since the defeats in Greece and Venezuela of
> such parties has led to widespread discussion of whether they were oversold
> to begin with.
>
> While the emphasis for people who believe in the North Star type approach
> has always been on organizational questions (what Lenin really meant,
> etc.), there is no avoiding the programmatic aspects of both Syriza and the
> Bolivarian revolution. In the first case you are dealing with a party that
> ostensibly refused to live up to its promises. With Venezuela, the issue
> might be one of whether the ruling party could have done anything to stay
> in power given the dire economic situation triggered by falling oil prices.
>
> full: http://www.thenorthstar.info/?p=12407
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greece, Venezuela and the prospects for a new left

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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On 12/28/15 11:00 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote:

I think it's incumbent on Louis, or someone agreeing with him, to
explain why they think Eric Toussaint's proposals at the link are
impractical - and why they wouldn't be useful as transitional measures
(i.e. measures drawing the masses into action):
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article4338


Transitional measures? They are posed as if such measures can be taken 
without consequence. I was deeply involved with Nicaragua solidarity for 
five years or so and can attest to the fact that imperialism can utterly 
knock an economically weak state off its feet. In the 1980s Nicaragua 
had the support of the USSR and European social democracies, especially 
Sweden. Despite that support, a combination of sanctions and 
counter-revolutionary violence made the Nicaraguans cry uncle. Today 
Greece could not even depend on such support. Furthermore, imperialism 
could just as easily turn Golden Dawn into an internal contra even 
though it demagogically supported Grexit, etc.


As I stated in my article, both Marx and Lenin viewed the proletarian 
revolution as a European-wide event. If the USSR, with its vast resource 
base and powerful military, could not fend off imperialism, what were 
the prospects for a socialist revolution in Greece, the bombast of small 
groups like DEA notwithstanding?

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[Marxism] Fwd: Greece, Venezuela and the prospects for a new left

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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After an extended period of relative quiescence in which the North Star 
editorial board has been continuing to assess the progress (or lack 
thereof) toward the creation of radical, nonsectarian formations on the 
left, we hope to begin publishing relevant content again. To some 
extent, this is an unavoidable task since the defeats in Greece and 
Venezuela of such parties has led to widespread discussion of whether 
they were oversold to begin with.


While the emphasis for people who believe in the North Star type 
approach has always been on organizational questions (what Lenin really 
meant, etc.), there is no avoiding the programmatic aspects of both 
Syriza and the Bolivarian revolution. In the first case you are dealing 
with a party that ostensibly refused to live up to its promises. With 
Venezuela, the issue might be one of whether the ruling party could have 
done anything to stay in power given the dire economic situation 
triggered by falling oil prices.


full: http://www.thenorthstar.info/?p=12407
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