[Marxism] Iraq is not Syria: US Congress on board this time - Yahoo News
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Am I wrong to conclude this recent email by this List moderator (below) implies: 1) It would be correct (and good) to support U. S. military attacks on the Bashir al-Assad led Syria government? 2) It would be correct (and good) to support U. S. military attacks on the ISIS/ISIL/IS in Iraq and Syria? 3) It was correct for the social democrats to support their nation's governments and military attacks on other nation governments and militaries in World War One? And this also leads me to ask: 4) Since some on this same List last year (and more recently) were stating that those as myself who were concerned that the calls to support ALL the opponent forces to the Bashir al-Assad led Syrian government would: A) be supporting reactionary Islamists forces - such as ISIS B) should only support anti-capitalist/anti-imperialist forces - that we were wrong - and support of FSA, ISIS, etc. was correct and their giving words that indirectly or directly, encouraged political support for expanding imperialist military intervention And I have email responses on this List saying that: It was not true or a concern by me and others, about the actual political forces and relative strength of support among those identified with the organized opposition to the Bashir al-Assad led Syria government - as being primarily reactionary Islamists. That the Free Syrian Army and other rebel groups such as ISIS were filled with great progressive rebels. So while the U. S. government and its allies can now support the Bashir al-Assad government indirectly by attacking ISIS forces - why should Marxists be involved in supporting any of these reactionary pro-capitalist forces - whether the current governments and their militarys in Iraq, Syria, U. S., Israel. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc.? Should Marxists have not learned from the World War One conflict held precisely one hundred years ago - and not support any such capitalist government military or other reactionary forces - and only support anti-capitalist forces that favor worker governments? Personally and politically I do not support the Bashir al-Assad led Syria government or the current Iraq government(s), or view the U. S. imperialist as positive forces - and none in my opinion should either - or should they still then claim to be Marxists or Anarchists in any progressive form. We witnessed the former radical Christopher Hitchens in 2003 arguing for support of U. S. government military forces to overthrow the then Saddam Hussein led Iraq Government. If Hitchens was wrong then (and he was) why would it be politically okay now, to support the same U. S. capitalist military forces to attack in Iraq, Syria, etc.? The neo-cons some who had been also former SWP members in the Schactman split in the 1940's, were wrong to support the GW Bush and his father GH Bush and Bill Clinton's led U. S. government military forces against Iraq. The politics in the world in 1914, were very bad. Capitalist governments and monarchy empires were firmly in control. But something happened - events that led to change. Vladimir Lenin and other Marxists and Anarchists throughout the world refused to take sides in the conflict among capitalist governments then - and called for workers to resist this war and instead to support political formations that supported the interests of working people for peace, land and bread etc. Christopher Hitchens was wrong in his political assessments following the collapse of the Soviet Union government, to support in 2002-2003 U. S. imperialism and capitalist wars. Clay Claiborne and some others on this List seem going down the same road as the Neo-cons, Christopher Hitchens and others that have abandoned radical politics of Marxism and others Anarchism, to instead view taking sides of which reactionary force should be in power to exploit and oppress. Workers of the World Unite - You have nothing to lose but your chains! Give up the mental chains of ideological control and imperialist propaganda and oppose their control - and support a better world! Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 08:27:23 -0400 Subject: [Marxism] Fwd: Iraq is not Syria: US Congress on board this time - Yahoo News From: marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: causecollec...@msn.com Maybe John Rees and the Becker brothers should pull out all the stops and organize mass demonstrations around the slogan No War on ISIS. After all, they saved Assad's neck last year. ;-) http://news.yahoo.com/iraq-isnt-syria-congress-board-time-160544152--election.html Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your
Re: [Marxism] Iraq is not Syria: US Congress on board this time - Yahoo News
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 8/13/14 12:56 PM, Shane Mage via Marxism wrote: Their physical extermination is the duty of every government, every political force, in the world (any of the Nazis who fails to achieve his desired martyrdom deserves to be confined in a supermax prison under constant suicide watch for the rest of his natural--plus medically prolonged--life). This is the second instance of Shane Mage backing Samantha Power humanitarian intervention. The last time was in Mali, where he backed the French against the Tuareg rebels, who he falsely amalgamated with al Qaeda. I really wonder if there was implicit backing for the French in the Algerian war of independence given his animosity toward the FLN. These are the hazards of leftish Islamophobia obviously. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Iraq is not Syria: US Congress on board this time - Yahoo News
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 8/13/14 12:26 PM, John Obrien via Marxism wrote: 4) Since some on this same List last year (and more recently) were stating that those as myself who were concerned that the calls to support ALL the opponent forces to the Bashir al-Assad led Syrian government would: A) be supporting reactionary Islamists forces - such as ISIS B) should only support anti-capitalist/anti-imperialist forces - that we were wrong - and support of FSA, ISIS, etc. was correct and their giving words that indirectly or directly, encouraged political support for expanding imperialist military intervention This is really a filthy lie. The only fighters I (or anybody else) supported were in the FSA. Not only were we opposed to ISIS, we were also opposed to al-Nusra before that, a group that never carried out the kind of Khmer Rouge savagery now carried out by ISIS. John, you really need to get into the habit of documenting your slanderous charges. There are 2 ways of doing this: 1. Go here: http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.politics.marxism.marxmail and search archives 2. Do an advanced search on Google for http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/pipermail/marxism/ Using option 1, I found a NYT's article I posted on January 26, 2013--my 68th birthday by coincidence. I posted it in order to alert Marxmail subscribers that a clash between the FSA and al-Nusra had become more pronounced. This was even before ISIS began beheading its leaders. So, John, if you took 5 minutes to check the archives, you could have figured out that you were a lying, irresponsible troll. NY Times January 26, 2013 Jihadists and Secular Activists Clash in Syria By HANIA MOURTADA and ANNE BARNARD BEIRUT, Lebanon — The tensions had been simmering for months in the northern Syrian town of Saraqib. Civilian antigovernment activists had complained of rebel fighters who needlessly destroyed a milk factory and treated residents disrespectfully. A growing contingent of jihadist fighters from the ideologically extreme and militarily formidable Nusra Front was suspicious of the activists’ secular, nonviolent agenda. On Thursday, mistrust erupted into confrontation. Masked men believed to be with Al Nusra raided the headquarters of two secular civilian grass-roots organizations — setting in motion one of the most dramatic tests yet of the makeshift system of local governance that civilians and fighters have established in Saraqib, a rebel-held town. The dispute also tests the clout of jihadist fighters and the ability of civilian opposition groups to stand up to them. The increasingly prominent role of jihadist battalions on the battlefield worried the United States enough to blacklist Al Nusra last year as a terrorist organization, an effort to isolate it that may have backfired. The Syrian opposition is ambivalent about the group: while many antigovernment activists oppose its vision of an Islamic state and complain of attempts to enforce pious practices, its relatively steady arms supply and string of battleground victories have brought it respect. full: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.politics.marxism.marxmail/165634/match=nusra Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Iraq is not Syria: US Congress on board this time - Yahoo News
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Aug 13, 2014, at 1:14 PM, Louis Proyect wrote: On 8/13/14 12:56 PM, Shane Mage via Marxism wrote: Their physical extermination is the duty of every government, every political force, in the world (any of the Nazis who fails to achieve his desired martyrdom deserves to be confined in a supermax prison under constant suicide watch for the rest of his natural--plus medically prolonged--life). This is the second instance of Shane Mage backing Samantha Power humanitarian intervention. The last time was in Mali, where he backed the French against the Tuareg rebels... Those swine were the detritus from the imperialist intervention in Libya. It was the Tuareg rebels were fighting them but they were out- armed and unable to defend Tombuctou and most of the Tuareg's Saharan domain from them. Why should they be denounced for *in extremis* accepting help against the takfiri scum from any quarter? It seems that Lou's Francophobia, stemming from his Pabloite past glorification of the fascist FLN (responsible for ethnic cleansing and murders exceeding even those perpetrated by the Zionists in the nakba) has made him entirely insensitive to the genocides and lesser atrocities carried out by the Nazistic takfiris). Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
