Re: [Marxism] South Africa: A Step towards Dictatorship?

[John Edmundson via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

It seems to me that that exact issue has been well covered on this list.

Cheers,
John

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 5:48 AM John Reimann via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

>   POSTING RULES & NOTES  
> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
> *
>
> The measures taken to slow or stop the spread of this pandemic are
> necessary. It is also inevitable that the capitalist class will use these
> measures to try to increase their power over the working class. The one
> doesn't rule out the other, nor should we be ignoring either side of this
> equation.
>
> But what most socialists do seem to be ignoring is the most important class
> aspect of this disaster, the aspect that is the very basis of it. I am
> referring to the clash between capitalist development and the laws of
> nature. To be more specific: How habitat loss and factory farming are
> together responsible for the spread of these new zoonotic diseases.
>
> John Reimann
>
> --
> *“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black
> Jacobins" by C. L. R. James
> Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
> _
> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
> Set your options at:
> https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/johnedmundson4%40gmail.com
>


-- 
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from the goose
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] South Africa: A Step towards Dictatorship?

[John Reimann via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

The measures taken to slow or stop the spread of this pandemic are
necessary. It is also inevitable that the capitalist class will use these
measures to try to increase their power over the working class. The one
doesn't rule out the other, nor should we be ignoring either side of this
equation.

But what most socialists do seem to be ignoring is the most important class
aspect of this disaster, the aspect that is the very basis of it. I am
referring to the clash between capitalist development and the laws of
nature. To be more specific: How habitat loss and factory farming are
together responsible for the spread of these new zoonotic diseases.

John Reimann

-- 
*“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black
Jacobins" by C. L. R. James
Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] South Africa: A Step towards Dictatorship?

[MM via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

> On Apr 7, 2020, at 12:33 AM, RKOB via Marxism  
> wrote:
> 
> I can only hope that at least some critics would show a bit more sensivity 
> for the extraordinary conditions of repression particularly in many African 
> countries (but also others). The army is on the streets, killing people and 
> so on. African comrades in the slums are living in much more difficult 
> conditions than those in North America or Western Europe.
> 
> But even in Europe conditions are becoming more repressive: yesterday the 
> Austrian government announced a ban for all public meetings, demonstrations 
> etc. at least until the end of June. Similar developments are taking place in 
> other countries. (Who could have seen this coming?!)
> 
> It is also noticable that yesterday the EU defence ministers had a video 
> conference to coordinate the role of the military in the current crisis. 
> (https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/headquarters-homepage/77151/video-conference-defence-ministers-remarks-high-representativevice-president-josep-borrell_en
>  
> 
>  )
> 
> I fear that some of the people who expressed their outrage about my post are 
> much less outraged about the banning of public assemblies and demonstrations. 
> They probably even support such banning! This is the real outrageous thing - 
> at least for people who call themselves progressive!

None of the responses to MP’s post expressed “outrage”; that’s a self-serving 
characterization, and one that suggests a need more for psychological than for 
poltical intervention. Surprise, incredulity, annoyance — but nothing even 
close to outrage.

But to invoke what’s happening in the townships — where some of us on the list, 
including myself, have longstanding political connections and very close 
personal friendships — in an effort to defend one’s reputation and avoid 
acknowledging a lapse in judgment, is genuinely disgusting.
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] South Africa: A Step towards Dictatorship?

[RKOB via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

I can only hope that at least some critics would show a bit more 
sensivity for the extraordinary conditions of repression particularly in 
many African countries (but also others). The army is on the streets, 
killing people and so on. African comrades in the slums are living in 
much more difficult conditions than those in North America or Western 
Europe.


But even in Europe conditions are becoming more repressive: yesterday 
the Austrian government announced a ban for all public meetings, 
demonstrations etc. at least until the end of June. Similar developments 
are taking place in other countries. (Who could have seen this coming?!)


It is also noticable that yesterday the EU defence ministers had a video 
conference to coordinate the role of the military in the current crisis. 
(https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/headquarters-homepage/77151/video-conference-defence-ministers-remarks-high-representativevice-president-josep-borrell_en 
)


I fear that some of the people who expressed their outrage about my post 
are much less outraged about the banning of public assemblies and 
demonstrations. They probably even support such banning! This is the 
real outrageous thing - at least for people who call themselves progressive!


Am 06.04.2020 um 22:53 schrieb MM via Marxism:

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*


On Apr 6, 2020, at 6:59 AM, A.R. G via Marxism  
wrote:

RKOB, I have noticed you have written highly detailed and well-thought out
polemics on imperialism and other topics.

So I have to say I am really flabbergasted to see you posting conspiracy
non-sense from social media when it comes to the COVID-19 issue. What's
going on?!

I have to add that I’m disappointed, although not really surprised, by RKOB’s 
radio silence on this, after Amith’s quite generous intervention. As I wrote on 
March 23rd, in response to an earlier misjudged message from RKOB:

“MP seems to be focused on looking for evidence to confirm a thesis that none 
of us disputes: that ruling forces will attempt to take advantage of the 
crisis. That singular focus, and perhaps a lack of understanding of 
epidemiology and public health, seem to have drawn him dangerously close to the 
brink of conspiracist confirmation bias.”

Unfortunately, I suspect the silence today is due to a frantic search for 
something that can be construed as evidence in support of the debunked hoax. It 
wouldn’t be the first time we’ve seen that happen; the Syrian catastrophe led 
many folks down a path from which they couldn’t return, since doing so would 
have required a more radical and embarrassing reversal than some folks are up 
to. I suppose we should have anticipated that COVID-19 would also have some 
political casualties, over and above the medical ones.
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/aktiv%40rkob.net


--
Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG
(Österreichische Sektion der RCIT, www.thecommunists.net)
www.rkob.net
ak...@rkob.net
Tel./SMS/WhatsApp/Telegram: +43-650-4068314



--
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] South Africa: A Step towards Dictatorship?

[MM via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

> On Apr 6, 2020, at 6:59 AM, A.R. G via Marxism  
> wrote:
> 
> RKOB, I have noticed you have written highly detailed and well-thought out
> polemics on imperialism and other topics.
> 
> So I have to say I am really flabbergasted to see you posting conspiracy
> non-sense from social media when it comes to the COVID-19 issue. What's
> going on?!

I have to add that I’m disappointed, although not really surprised, by RKOB’s 
radio silence on this, after Amith’s quite generous intervention. As I wrote on 
March 23rd, in response to an earlier misjudged message from RKOB:

“MP seems to be focused on looking for evidence to confirm a thesis that none 
of us disputes: that ruling forces will attempt to take advantage of the 
crisis. That singular focus, and perhaps a lack of understanding of 
epidemiology and public health, seem to have drawn him dangerously close to the 
brink of conspiracist confirmation bias.”

Unfortunately, I suspect the silence today is due to a frantic search for 
something that can be construed as evidence in support of the debunked hoax. It 
wouldn’t be the first time we’ve seen that happen; the Syrian catastrophe led 
many folks down a path from which they couldn’t return, since doing so would 
have required a more radical and embarrassing reversal than some folks are up 
to. I suppose we should have anticipated that COVID-19 would also have some 
political casualties, over and above the medical ones.
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] South Africa: A Step towards Dictatorship?

[MM via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

> On Apr 6, 2020, at 6:41 AM, RKOB via Marxism  
> wrote:
> 
> I would like to draw the attention of readers to the following. Comrades from 
> South Africa just informed me that the government forced social media groups 
> to post following message:


The message being circulated is a hoax:

https://www.thequint.com/news/webqoof/fake-message-on-disaster-management-act-says-posting-on-covid-19-illegal-fact-check


_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] South Africa: A Step towards Dictatorship?

[Patrick Bond via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Comrades, it's vital to get pass along solid information, and this 
simply can't be true. A similarly-worded fake alert along these lines 
was circulated in India a few days ago.


We still have democracy here, albeit 'low intensity,' and we can still 
say all sorts of critical things here. That's because we're mainly 
irrelevant.


Cheers,

Patrick

On 4/6/2020 12:41 PM, RKOB via Marxism wrote:

 POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

I would like to draw the attention of readers to the following. 
Comrades from South Africa just informed me that the government forced 
social media groups to post following message:


"Mandate To All Residents. Tonight  12 ( midnight) onwards Disaster 
Management Act has been implemented across the country. According to 
this update, apart from the Govt department no other citizen is 
allowed to post any update or share any forward related to Coronavirus 
and it being punishable offence.
Group Admins are requested to post the above update and inform the 
groups."


This has gone viral as it suggests that the capitalist government of 
ANC and Stalinist CP plans to suppress that anyone except itself is 
allowed to talk about the COVID-19 issue. (Indeed one TV station 
already interpretated it that way.) All this takes place in the 
context of the reactionary lockdown which the government has imposed 
for 21 days. As soon as I know more I will update comrades.


In any case it demonstrates once more that COVID-19 is a perfect cover 
for global counterrevolutionary offensive.




_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] South Africa: A Step towards Dictatorship?

[A.R. G via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

Fake news, apparently started with India:
https://www.indiatoday.in/fact-check/story/fact-check-no-disaster-management-act-does-not-restrict-citizens-to-post-updates-on-covid-19-1662457-2020-04-02

RKOB, I have noticed you have written highly detailed and well-thought out
polemics on imperialism and other topics.

So I have to say I am really flabbergasted to see you posting conspiracy
non-sense from social media when it comes to the COVID-19 issue. What's
going on?!

Amith R. Gupta


On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 6:48 AM RKOB via Marxism 
wrote:

>   POSTING RULES & NOTES  
> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
> *
>
> I would like to draw the attention of readers to the following. Comrades
> from South Africa just informed me that the government forced social
> media groups to post following message:
>
> "Mandate To All Residents. Tonight  12 ( midnight) onwards Disaster
> Management Act has been implemented across the country. According to
> this update, apart from the Govt department no other citizen is allowed
> to post any update or share any forward related to Coronavirus and it
> being punishable offence.
> Group Admins are requested to post the above update and inform the groups."
>
> This has gone viral as it suggests that the capitalist government of ANC
> and Stalinist CP plans to suppress that anyone except itself is allowed
> to talk about the COVID-19 issue. (Indeed one TV station already
> interpretated it that way.) All this takes place in the context of the
> reactionary lockdown which the government has imposed for 21 days. As
> soon as I know more I will update comrades.
>
> In any case it demonstrates once more that COVID-19 is a perfect cover
> for global counterrevolutionary offensive.
>
> --
> Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG
> (Österreichische Sektion der RCIT, www.thecommunists.net)
> www.rkob.net
> ak...@rkob.net
> Tel./SMS/WhatsApp/Telegram: +43-650-4068314
>
>
>
> --
> Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> _
> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
> Set your options at:
> https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com
>
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] South Africa: A Step towards Dictatorship?

[RKOB via Marxism]

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*

I would like to draw the attention of readers to the following. Comrades 
from South Africa just informed me that the government forced social 
media groups to post following message:


"Mandate To All Residents. Tonight  12 ( midnight) onwards Disaster 
Management Act has been implemented across the country. According to 
this update, apart from the Govt department no other citizen is allowed 
to post any update or share any forward related to Coronavirus and it 
being punishable offence.

Group Admins are requested to post the above update and inform the groups."

This has gone viral as it suggests that the capitalist government of ANC 
and Stalinist CP plans to suppress that anyone except itself is allowed 
to talk about the COVID-19 issue. (Indeed one TV station already 
interpretated it that way.) All this takes place in the context of the 
reactionary lockdown which the government has imposed for 21 days. As 
soon as I know more I will update comrades.


In any case it demonstrates once more that COVID-19 is a perfect cover 
for global counterrevolutionary offensive.


--
Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG
(Österreichische Sektion der RCIT, www.thecommunists.net)
www.rkob.net
ak...@rkob.net
Tel./SMS/WhatsApp/Telegram: +43-650-4068314



--
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: 
https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com