Re: [Marxism] Syria: How Much Does the Pentagon Pay for the YPG?
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * 1. Whether or not you call Turkey an imperialist country, it is occupying Syrian territory. The SDF is resisting the occupation. Turkey is also intervenening militarily in northern Iraq. Erdogan has wider ambitions. There are Turkish bases in Qatar and Somalia. Turkey has sent a contingent of Syrian mercenaries to Libya. 2. I don't know how much aid Turkey gives to Syrian rebel groups. I suspect the total is probably higher than US aid to the SDF, but this is just a guess. 3. The SDF is multi-ethnic, and resists the Turkish invasion and occupation of Afrin and northeastern Syria on behalf of people from all ethnic groups. 4. The SDF does not fight "under the command" of US imperialism. 5. Turkish troops began moving into the greater Idlib area in late 2017, shortly before Turkey's invasion of Afrin. One of the goals was to ensure that Turkey controlled the southern border of Afrin, in preparation for the invasion. Of course, this was just part of a broader deal between Russia and Turkey. But from Erdogan's point of view, the green light for the invasion of Afrin was the main result of the deal. Today the situation is different. Turkish troops are fighting alongside rebel groups to prevent Assad gaining control of the whole of Idlib. Chris Slee From: Marxism on behalf of RKOB via Marxism Sent: Wednesday, 26 February 2020 8:45:22 PM To: Chris Slee Subject: Re: [Marxism] Syria: How Much Does the Pentagon Pay for the YPG? POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * There are several problems with the reply of Chris Slee. 1) He seems not to be able to differentiate between the U.S. and Turkey. Marxists differentiate between imperialist and non-imperialist states. The U.S. is – until now – the biggest Great Power in the world. Turkey is not even imperialist. And even if one subscribes to the idea of “sub-imperialism” there is still a qualitative difference between the U.S. and Turkey. Unfortunately Chris Slee / SA /GLW have replaced Marxism with the petty-bourgeois YPG outlook according to which Turkey is the worst enemy in the region. 2) Chris Slee says that the YPG/SDF “receives some aid from the US”. This is an extraordinary diplomatic description of the fact that this organization receives annually several hundreds of millions of US-Dollar since several years! None of the Syrian rebel factions – even not the most corrupted ones – has received such regular paid sums until now! 3) Add to this that the YPG/SDF occupies large areas with Arab majority population, i.e. it is a reactionary occupation force in the service of the U.S. 4) We have repeatedly said (and denounced) that some rebel factions act as mercenaries for Turkey (like those in Afrin or Northeast Syria). This is because they are paid and fight under the command of Turkey – like the YPG does for U.S. imperialism. 5) The situation in Idlib has been different. Turkey (and its allies) have orientated towards deals with Russian imperialism (Astana and Sochi). The majority of the rebels controlling Idlib have refused this. This is why the war continues. Yes, this can change in the future. But it is not the situation until now. Turkey has not intervened into the war in Idlib until one or two weeks ago. To say that they are controlling the situation in Idlib would be a cynical caricature of the reality. They have just now intervened for the first time in the fighting in Nayrab. In conclusion, one can not exclude the possibility that in the future the situation might change. The alliance of Turkey and Russia could break down, an open and full warfare between Turkey and Russia/Assad could start (i.e. not only sporadic clashes as it is now) and in such a situation the majority of the rebels could subordinate themselves under the Turkish command. As we have said in the past, if such a fundamental turn in the situation takes place, revolutionary tactics have also to change. However, I consider such a possibility as unlikely. I think this could only take place if the U.S. would be willing to fully support (economically, financially, military, etc.) Turkey against Russia and hence there would be a realignment between Ankara and Washington. There are no serious indications for this as it would mean a complete turn in the U.S. strategy for the Middle East. But, as I said, it can not
Re: [Marxism] Syria: How Much Does the Pentagon Pay for the YPG?
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * There are several problems with the reply of Chris Slee. 1) He seems not to be able to differentiate between the U.S. and Turkey. Marxists differentiate between imperialist and non-imperialist states. The U.S. is – until now – the biggest Great Power in the world. Turkey is not even imperialist. And even if one subscribes to the idea of “sub-imperialism” there is still a qualitative difference between the U.S. and Turkey. Unfortunately Chris Slee / SA /GLW have replaced Marxism with the petty-bourgeois YPG outlook according to which Turkey is the worst enemy in the region. 2) Chris Slee says that the YPG/SDF “receives some aid from the US”. This is an extraordinary diplomatic description of the fact that this organization receives annually several hundreds of millions of US-Dollar since several years! None of the Syrian rebel factions – even not the most corrupted ones – has received such regular paid sums until now! 3) Add to this that the YPG/SDF occupies large areas with Arab majority population, i.e. it is a reactionary occupation force in the service of the U.S. 4) We have repeatedly said (and denounced) that some rebel factions act as mercenaries for Turkey (like those in Afrin or Northeast Syria). This is because they are paid and fight under the command of Turkey – like the YPG does for U.S. imperialism. 5) The situation in Idlib has been different. Turkey (and its allies) have orientated towards deals with Russian imperialism (Astana and Sochi). The majority of the rebels controlling Idlib have refused this. This is why the war continues. Yes, this can change in the future. But it is not the situation until now. Turkey has not intervened into the war in Idlib until one or two weeks ago. To say that they are controlling the situation in Idlib would be a cynical caricature of the reality. They have just now intervened for the first time in the fighting in Nayrab. In conclusion, one can not exclude the possibility that in the future the situation might change. The alliance of Turkey and Russia could break down, an open and full warfare between Turkey and Russia/Assad could start (i.e. not only sporadic clashes as it is now) and in such a situation the majority of the rebels could subordinate themselves under the Turkish command. As we have said in the past, if such a fundamental turn in the situation takes place, revolutionary tactics have also to change. However, I consider such a possibility as unlikely. I think this could only take place if the U.S. would be willing to fully support (economically, financially, military, etc.) Turkey against Russia and hence there would be a realignment between Ankara and Washington. There are no serious indications for this as it would mean a complete turn in the U.S. strategy for the Middle East. But, as I said, it can not be excluded. In any case, Marxists don’t take position on the basis of speculations about possible developments in the future but on the basis of the real relation of class forces today. And the reality today is that the YPG serves since years under the command and with the money of U.S. imperialism and occupies in their service large parts of non-Kurdish land. In contrast, the Syrian rebels fight a just war to defend their people against the Assad and Russian imperialism. They have done so for many years and despite the Turkish-Russian deals of Sochi and Astana. Am 25.02.2020 um 22:09 schrieb Chris Slee: Because the Syrian Democratic Forces receive some aid from the US, Michael Probsting claims they are "mercenaries for US imperialism". He says that "US imperialism controls the eastern part of Syria". If he were to apply the same logic to Idlib province, he would say that Turkey controls most of Idlib, and that the rebels there are mercenaries for Turkey. Turkey has aided rebel groups in Idlib since 2011. It began stationing troops there in 2017. But this has increased dramatically recently. According to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, 2,850 Turkish trucks and military vehicles crossed into Syrian territory between February 2 and February 24. 7,600 Turkish troops deployed to Idlib and Aleppo provinces. The number of Turkish military posts rose to 43: http://www.syriahr.com/en/?p=155721 This greatly exceeds the US presence in northeastern Syria. Yet Probsting still talks of "the popular uprising in Syria", presumably referring to the rebels in Idlib. The fact that these rebels are allied with Turkey against Assad does not lead him to call them mercenaries. The fact that a group receives outside aid does not automatically make it a
Re: [Marxism] Syria: How Much Does the Pentagon Pay for the YPG?
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 2/25/20 4:09 PM, Chris Slee via Marxism wrote: Because the Syrian Democratic Forces receive some aid from the US, Michael Probsting claims they are "mercenaries for US imperialism". He says that "US imperialism controls the eastern part of Syria". I wouldn't call them mercenaries myself. Mercenaries are guns for hire, after all. The only problem with the YPG was its refusal to join forces with the revolution. Now, as Malcolm X once said, the chickens are coming home to roost. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Syria: How Much Does the Pentagon Pay for the YPG?
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Because the Syrian Democratic Forces receive some aid from the US, Michael Probsting claims they are "mercenaries for US imperialism". He says that "US imperialism controls the eastern part of Syria". If he were to apply the same logic to Idlib province, he would say that Turkey controls most of Idlib, and that the rebels there are mercenaries for Turkey. Turkey has aided rebel groups in Idlib since 2011. It began stationing troops there in 2017. But this has increased dramatically recently. According to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, 2,850 Turkish trucks and military vehicles crossed into Syrian territory between February 2 and February 24. 7,600 Turkish troops deployed to Idlib and Aleppo provinces. The number of Turkish military posts rose to 43: http://www.syriahr.com/en/?p=155721 This greatly exceeds the US presence in northeastern Syria. Yet Probsting still talks of "the popular uprising in Syria", presumably referring to the rebels in Idlib. The fact that these rebels are allied with Turkey against Assad does not lead him to call them mercenaries. The fact that a group receives outside aid does not automatically make it a "mercenary". I would not condemn a rebel group solely for receiving aid from Turkey to fight against the Assad regime. But Turkish aid has been used as a means of coopting rebel groups. Those who joined Turkey in its invasions of Afrin and northeastern Syria have become mercenaries. The SDF is fighting against ISIS because ISIS is a reactionary organisation, which oppresses women and religious minorities. The US is fighting ISIS for its own reasons. The fact that there is cooperation against a common enemy does not make the SDF mercenaries. This does not mean that such cooperation is without problems and dangers. The cooption of some Syrian rebel groups by Turkey shows the dangers. Chris Slee From: Marxism on behalf of RKOB via Marxism Sent: Monday, 24 February 2020 9:21:11 PM To: Chris Slee Subject: [Marxism] Syria: How Much Does the Pentagon Pay for the YPG? POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * *Syria: How Much Does the Pentagon Pay for the YPG?* */On the regular subsidies of U.S. imperialism for its mercenaries in Syria/* /By Michael Pröbsting, //24 February 2020/ https://www.thecommunists.net/worldwide/africa-and-middle-east/syria-how-much-does-the-pentagon-pay-for-the-ypg/ -- Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG (Österreichische Sektion der RCIT, www.thecommunists.net<http://www.thecommunists.net>) www.rkob.net<http://www.rkob.net> ak...@rkob.net Tel./SMS/WhatsApp/Telegram: +43-650-4068314 _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/chris_w_slee%40hotmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Syria: How Much Does the Pentagon Pay for the YPG?
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * *Syria: How Much Does the Pentagon Pay for the YPG?* */On the regular subsidies of U.S. imperialism for its mercenaries in Syria/* /By Michael Pröbsting, //24 February 2020/ https://www.thecommunists.net/worldwide/africa-and-middle-east/syria-how-much-does-the-pentagon-pay-for-the-ypg/ -- Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG (Österreichische Sektion der RCIT, www.thecommunists.net) www.rkob.net ak...@rkob.net Tel./SMS/WhatsApp/Telegram: +43-650-4068314 _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
