Re: [Marxism] Thailand: Smells like a coup, tastes like a coup, looks like a coup
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 5/22/14 11:09 PM, Michael Smith via Marxism wrote: It's a … Thaidan! Well, not exactly. The Euromaidan politicians (as opposed to ordinary Ukrainians who were sick and tired of corruption, police brutality, etc.) favored deeper penetration of the economy by means of integration into the EU. But in Thailand, the section of the ruling class that was hostile to Thaksin were much more like Yanukovych, opposing foreign investments. Thaksin was deeply committed to neoliberalism and globalization. As I pointed out in my article on Thailand, the anti-imperialist left is by no means unified on supporting the red shirt agenda. In fact, Global Research, one of Putin's biggest fans, has been vehement in its opposition to Thaksin: http://www.globalresearch.ca/thailands-military-an-important-independent-institution/5360806 The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) in front of which Thaksin Shinawatra spent his last evening as Thailand’s prime minister, and whose corporate-financier interests it serves has backed Shinawatra for nearly a decade, has recently published an op-ed titled, “Can Thailand Break Its Coup Addiction?” Despite Thailand being run openly by convicted criminal, mass murder, and fugitive Thaksin Shinawatra, who was not elected, not on the ballot, and is not even in the country, the CFR’s piece implies that the current regime is a legitimate “parliamentary democracy,” and that coups are outdated, unnecessary, and undermine the country’s “democracy.” Should the CFR have its way, Thaksin Shinawatra would not only be allowed to continue running the country via his nepotist-appointed sister, current prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra – already a breathtaking display of banana republic-style corruption – but eventually return both to Thailand and to power, to repay the West for the last decade of stalwart support it has provided him. --- Also, that mouthpiece of the American ruling class that can be relied upon for its steadfast opposition to poor people everywhere has a position much closer to Giles Ji Ungpakorn than me: Thomas Fuller, NY Times, May 22 2014: The coup was seen as a victory for the elites in Thailand who have grown disillusioned with popular democracy and have sought for years to diminish the electoral power of Thaksin Shinawatra, a former prime minister who commands support in the rural north. Unable to win elections, the opposition has instead called for an appointed prime minister and pleaded with the military for months to step in. As soldiers spread out throughout Bangkok on Thursday, the generals issued a series of announcements, declaring most of the constitution “terminated,” banning gatherings of more than five people, imposing a curfew, and shutting schools. The coup was at least the 12th military takeover since Thailand abandoned the absolute monarchy in 1932. But unlike many of the previous coups that involved infighting among generals, Thursday’s takeover had as subtext the political awakening among rural Thais who have supported Thaksin and benefited from patronage and policies such as universal health care and microloans. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Thailand: Smells like a coup, tastes like a coup, looks like a coup
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On May 21, 2014, at 9:38 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote: When I read this sort of thing, I have to wonder how people take him seriously. I mean, for christ's sake, how else does a Thai become a billionaire except through the sort of practices found throughout East Asia? It's a … Thaidan! Michael Smith m...@smithbowen.net A man should take care not to be made a proverb; and, therefore, should avoid having any one topick of which people can say, We shall hear him upon it. --Dr J Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Thailand: Smells like a coup, tastes like a coup, looks like a coup
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I keep reading opinions on this list that the present day Red Shirts in Thailand are progressive and for democracy. My friends and acquaintances in Thailand have provided me with sufficient knowledge to understand the Red Shirts are just paid pawns of the former wealthy Thailand prime minister Tashkin, who seeks to return to power and continue corruption for personal gain. There is nothing leftist about the mainly rural Red Shirts Movement in Thailand. There is also a long record of reactionary policies and actions by the military and previous governments of Thailand, whether as part of the Axis in WWII, or more recent its providing military bases and support to the U. S. government in its wars and bombings against Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 11:02:32 +1000 From: stuartmunck...@gmail.com Subject: [Marxism] Thailand: Smells like a coup, tastes like a coup, looks like a coup Despite the fact that Prayut claimed that “this is not a coup”, his actions smell, taste and look like a coup. This is from a man who has blood on his hands. Four years ago to the day, Prayut oversaw the gunning down in of almost 90 Red Shirt pro-democracy demonstrators on the streets of Bangkok. https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/56502 -- “Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man Under Socialism “The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/causecollector%40msn.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Thailand: Smells like a coup, tastes like a coup, looks like a coup
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The Red Shirts are drawn from rural and urban poor and their support for Thaskin, a corrupt tycoon, was based on the fact that he introduced some measures that benifitted them, such as access to health care for the first time. At the same time Thaskin, was almost certainly very corrupt and responsible for human rights abuses -- but there is nothing new or unique in that, and that is not the basis for his support. The Red Shirts developed as a mass movement in response to the coup that got rid of Thaskin and imposed on them much more anti-poor government. The Red Shirts developed as a mass movement for democracy in the face of fundamentally anti-democratic forces -- forces that don't believe the poor should be able to determine government, who don't want to allow popular elected governments. I think Giles' articles give a clear account of this, as does his 2009 book that details the anti-democratic push of the elite and middle classes. Forces that have again violated the popular will. The Red Shirts did not develop as a simple pawn of Thaskin, that is a trope that echoes the general line directed against the Red Shirts that the poor in Thailand are too stupid to be allowed to vote, that they can simply be bought off and have no independent capacity. Well, sorry -- illusions are one thing, but it is not surprising when no one has ever done anything but kick the poor that they get upset when the one leader who gave them anything is overthrown by a bunch of people who want to *extend* the undemocratic aspects of the system (such as the senators appointed not elected and drawn from the military). Stuart On 21 May 2014 18:51, John Obrien causecollec...@msn.com wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I keep reading opinions on this list that the present day Red Shirts in Thailand are progressive and for democracy. My friends and acquaintances in Thailand have provided me with sufficient knowledge to understand the Red Shirts are just paid pawns of the former wealthy Thailand prime minister Tashkin, who seeks to return to power and continue corruption for personal gain. There is nothing leftist about the mainly rural Red Shirts Movement in Thailand. There is also a long record of reactionary policies and actions by the military and previous governments of Thailand, whether as part of the Axis in WWII, or more recent its providing military bases and support to the U. S. government in its wars and bombings against Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 11:02:32 +1000 From: stuartmunck...@gmail.com Subject: [Marxism] Thailand: Smells like a coup, tastes like a coup, looks like a coup Despite the fact that Prayut claimed that “this is not a coup”, his actions smell, taste and look like a coup. This is from a man who has blood on his hands. Four years ago to the day, Prayut oversaw the gunning down in of almost 90 Red Shirt pro-democracy demonstrators on the streets of Bangkok. https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/56502 -- “Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man Under Socialism “The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/causecollector%40msn.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/stuartmunckton%40gmail.com -- “Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man Under Socialism “The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Thailand: Smells like a coup, tastes like a coup, looks like a coup
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == My friends and acquaintances in Thailand have provided me with sufficient knowledge to understand the Red Shirts are just paid pawns of the former wealthy Thailand prime minister Tashkin, who seeks to return to power and continue corruption for personal gain. Ah yes. Another of those damn bourgeois Tyrants. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Thailand: Smells like a coup, tastes like a coup, looks like a coup
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 5/21/14 8:24 PM, Stuart Munckton wrote: At the same time Thaskin, was almost certainly very corrupt and responsible for human rights abuses -- but there is nothing new or unique in that, and that is not the basis for his support. Yeah, well, Giles Ji Ungpakorn doesn't think that corruption was a problem: People were very angry with the way that the courts seized Thaksin's wealth. And to be honest, the corruption charges against him haven't really been proved. In that sense, people are justified to be angry. (https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/43625) When I read this sort of thing, I have to wonder how people take him seriously. I mean, for christ's sake, how else does a Thai become a billionaire except through the sort of practices found throughout East Asia? In terms of the farmers in the North, not everything is so rosy as you would be led to believe from Giles. This is from February 2014: http://www.euronews.com/2014/02/17/yingluck-under-pressure-from-protesters-as-thai-rice-farmers-demand-payment/ A separate protest by rice farmers at her temporary office demanding payment for rice could turn out to be more damaging for Yingluck. Rural voters swept her to power in 2011, when her Puea Thai Party pledged to pay rice farmers way above market prices for their harvest. But the programme has run into funding problems and some farmers have not been paid for months. “The prime minister is well off but we are not. How are we going to feed our children? I want her to think about us,” said one protesting farmer. “Farmers are tough people, they wouldn’t normally speak out but they are at the end of their tether.” Farmers’ representatives later met ministers, but when Finance Minister Kittirat Na Ranong came out to speak to the crowd he was pelted with plastic bottles. --- You can find rapturous praise for the Thaksin clan from Andre Vltchek, the same guy who is a diehard Putin supporter. This is typical: Government buildings are being trashed, ransacked. It is happening in Kiev and Bangkok, and in both cities, the governments appear to be toothless, too scared to intervene. What is going on? Are popularly elected administrations all over the world becoming irrelevant; as the Western regime creates and then supports thuggish ‘opposition movements’ designed to destabilize any state that stands in the way of its desire to fully control the planet? full: http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/02/03/west-manufactures-opposition-movements/ For an alternative to the Vltchek and Ungpakorn take on things, I recommend Michael Pirsch's articles in Truthout, especially this one that hones in on the Vltchek article: Vltchek goes on to describe Thaksin as committing the most unforgivable crime in the eyes of the Thai elites: Some years back he actually attempted to convert Thailand from a backwards feudal nation, into some sort of modern capitalist state; Mr. Shinawatra was not an angel and when he was in power, I criticized him on several occasions. ... And so they forced Mr. Shinawatra out from office, from Thailand, and in the end they massacred those that demanded his return. At this point I will pause and explain why Thaksin was forced ... out from office, from Thailand. I will also discuss Vltchek's point that in the end they massacred those that demanded his return. Thaksin was removed from office in 2006 by a military coup conducted while Thaksin was in New York preparing to give a speech at the opening session of the United Nations. The night before, Thaksin paid tribute to the masters of United States foreign and domestic policy, the Council of Foreign Relations. He was there in his capacity as a vital cog in the neoliberal policies of creating global corporate government. The coup was conducted following large-scale protests against Thaksin's autocratic rule during which he implemented many policies solely to benefit corporations in which he was the major shareholder. The last straw came when he sold his telecommunications firm to a Singaporean entity for several billion dollars. Two days before the deal was finalized, Thai laws limiting foreign ownership of Thai corporations were changed to increase that limit to 49 percent. Furthermore, Thaksin also arranged to have a capital gains tax precedent removed so the deal would not be subject to any Thai taxes. Yes, the Thai prime minister, patron saint of populist policies, arranged not to pay more than $400 million in taxes. He did not share any of this with the poor in Thailand. This last straw followed a long train of abuses while he was prime minister. One Thai politician admitted there was corruption in Thai politics for a long time. He said, Taking a bite out of the apple
