Re: [Marxism] WHY RUSSIAN AND CHINESE WORKERS' STATES THREATEN WORLD CAPITALISM DESPITE STALINISM!
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * on Mittwoch, 26. August 2015 at 02:20, Anthony Brain via Marxism gave a link to his latest Wordpress-blog article, which contained e.g. this: 75 Billion Pounds were wasted in the stock market crash in the City of London during August 24th 2015. Additionally I have heard two days ago that the American Stock Market has lost 5 Trillion Dollars. All that money being wasted which could be used for productive investments for human need. actually no, the drop in stock exchange values only showed that this was fictitious capital, which could not be realized when their owners tried to transform it in real values. These stock market values are product of speculation, not real production of value, even if this fictitious capital is being used to appropriate real values produced the world around in the process of a redivision of the surplus value. Only human labor produces new value. And human labor is the prime force which is needed for productive investmensts, not money. That is why I have always said in regard to the crisis in Greece, that the first task is not to get the creditors to renounce of parts of their debt claims, but to mobilise the huge number of unemployed people in the country (with an unemployed rate of 25%) for a public works programm. Only the real mobilisation of human beings taking their fate in their working hands can be the basis for a renegotiation of the foreign debt of Greece. Further down he wrote: Revolutionary upheavals could become more frequent in the next period. Key to Trotskyist strategy is utilise the examples of workers’ states of what is possible. I don't think that this would help. More important is the practial experience of the working class people in the capitalist countries with their own force of the big numbers and own productive role, gaining confidence in their own strength instead of this destitute thinking that it is always outside forces we have to expect help from. Cheers, Lüko Willms _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] WHY RUSSIAN AND CHINESE WORKERS' STATES THREATEN WORLD CAPITALISM DESPITE STALINISM!
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Yes, I agree that the article's commentary is absurd. The fact that this writer does not see the obvious does not, in fact, make it less obvious. It just says something about the writer. It has never ceased to amaze me how much people in the West can detach themselves from the lived reality of upwards of billions of people, whether they be sweatshop laborers in China, the toiling masses in the Soviet Union (when it was around), the peoples of the so-called Third World, etc. But I don't think the answer is to engage in reductionism. The answer is to point out that regardless of its similarities or differences with the United States or Russia, China has enabled the exploitation of hundreds of millions of people at the hands of MNCs. - Amith _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] WHY RUSSIAN AND CHINESE WORKERS' STATES THREATEN WORLD CAPITALISM DESPITE STALINISM!
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * https://defendtrotskyism.wordpress.com/2015/08/26/the-world-wide-revolutionary-socialst-implications-of-the-chinese-workers-state-growing-at-the-detriment-to-world-capitalist-market-by-anthony-brain/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] WHY RUSSIAN AND CHINESE WORKERS' STATES THREATEN WORLD CAPITALISM DESPITE STALINISM!
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Russia is run by a corrupt pack of super rich capitalists, called oligarchs, who intend to oppress and exploit every piece of the earth they can get their hands on for their Empire, and don’t give a shit about freedom, democracy, the right of nations to self-determination, or anything else besides heaping up their money. The United States is run by a corrupt pack of super rich capitalists, called oligarchs, who intend to oppress and exploit every piece of the earth they can get their hands on for their Empire, and don’t give a shit about freedom, democracy, the right of nations to self-determination, or anything else besides heaping up their money. China is run by a corrupt pack of super rich capitalists, called oligarchs, who intend to oppress and exploit every piece of the earth they can get their hands on for their Empire, and don’t give a shit about freedom, democracy, the right of nations to self-determination, or anything else besides heaping up their money. Please excuse restatement of the obvious. T -Original Message- From: Anthony Brain via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Aug 25, 2015 8:20 PM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Subject: [Marxism] WHY RUSSIAN AND CHINESE WORKERS' STATES THREATEN WORLD CAPITALISM DESPITE STALINISM! POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * https://defendtrotskyism.wordpress.com/2015/08/26/the-world-wide-revolutionary-socialst-implications-of-the-chinese-workers-state-growing-at-the-detriment-to-world-capitalist-market-by-anthony-brain/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/thomasfbarton%40earthlink.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] WHY RUSSIAN AND CHINESE WORKERS' STATES THREATEN WORLD CAPITALISM DESPITE STALINISM!
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Without jumping on the tanky I-love-Putin bandwagon, I have to add that I don't think this kind of reductionism makes sense. There are huge differences between the ruling elites in different countries just as there are differences among them. Saying that they are all crooks, outside of being a statement of the obvious, does not contribute to discussion. For one thing I think it is important when local elites form a sort of counterweight to elites elsewhere. But I don't think that is actually what the BRICS countries are doing, and to the extent that they are doing it it does not seem to have much pay off in the long run. - Amith On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 9:22 PM, Thomas via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Russia is run by a corrupt pack of super rich capitalists, called oligarchs, who intend to oppress and exploit every piece of the earth they can get their hands on for their Empire, and don’t give a shit about freedom, democracy, the right of nations to self-determination, or anything else besides heaping up their money. The United States is run by a corrupt pack of super rich capitalists, called oligarchs, who intend to oppress and exploit every piece of the earth they can get their hands on for their Empire, and don’t give a shit about freedom, democracy, the right of nations to self-determination, or anything else besides heaping up their money. China is run by a corrupt pack of super rich capitalists, called oligarchs, who intend to oppress and exploit every piece of the earth they can get their hands on for their Empire, and don’t give a shit about freedom, democracy, the right of nations to self-determination, or anything else besides heaping up their money. Please excuse restatement of the obvious. T -Original Message- From: Anthony Brain via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Aug 25, 2015 8:20 PM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Subject: [Marxism] WHY RUSSIAN AND CHINESE WORKERS' STATES THREATEN WORLD CAPITALISM DESPITE STALINISM! POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * https://defendtrotskyism.wordpress.com/2015/08/26/the-world-wide-revolutionary-socialst-implications-of-the-chinese-workers-state-growing-at-the-detriment-to-world-capitalist-market-by-anthony-brain/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/thomasfbarton%40earthlink.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
