Re: [Marxism] Fwd: In blow to Trump, Syrian Kurds call on al-Assad to Save them from Turkey | Informed Comment

2018-01-27 Thread John Reimann via Marxism 
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They may say they want autonomy (vs. an independent state) and maybe they
really believe it. But the very logic of the situation will drive them
further, especially considering that Kurdistan spans a whole series of
countries.

And it's similar regarding Assad: They may say they want a democratic
Syria, but they have never participated in the movement against Assad, and
I'm not talking about the Islamic fundamentalist movement. In fact, there
are enough reports about their suppressing anti-Assad activists within the
region that they control that it's not reasonable to just dismiss those
reports. And if they think that if Assad does anything about the Turkish
invasion more than just send the airforce, then they are being quite naive.
And any wish that the Syrian national government being democratized as long
as Assad or his clique remain in power is exactly that - a wish. And will
never be anything more than that. It's like "keep hope alive".

John Reimann

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 3:40 PM, Chris Slee 
wrote:

> The PYD has always said its aim is not an independent Kurdish state, but
> autonomy within a democratic Syria, with linguistic and cultural rights for
> Kurds and other minorities.
>
> Thus when the Afrin administration says that Afrin is "part of Syria",
> that is nothing new.
>
> The statement aims at exposing the Assad regime's failure to defend
> Syria's "territorial integrity" against the Turkish invasion.  If the
> statement has the effect of prodding the regime into taking some action
> against the invasion (e.g. threatening to shoot down Turkish military
> aircraft entering Syrian airspace), that will help the defenders of Afrin.
> In the (more likely) event that Assad continues to allow the invasion to go
> unchallenged, it might lead to questioning of his credentials as a defender
> of Syria.
>
> John Reimann claims that "the Kurdish leaders...accept that the central
> Syrian government - meaning Assad - has final say about what is and is not
> allowed in Afrin.  And they all agree that a powerful anti-Assad movement
> will be prohibited".
>
> In fact the Kurdish and other leaders of the Democratic Federation of
> Northern Syria want the "central Syrian government" to be democratised so
> that it is no longer the dictatorship of Assad.
>
> But the question is: what sort of movement is needed to bring democracy?
> Being "anti-Assad" is not sufficient.  Some "anti-Assad" groups are
> religious sectarians and/or ethnic chauvinists.  Some have been coopted
> into Turkey's war on the DFNS.
>
> Democracy can only be created by a multi-ethnic and multi-religious
> movement that can win the support of those Syrians - particularly the
> religious minorities - who currently view Assad as the lesser evil.
>
> Chris Slee
>
> 
> From: Marxism  on behalf of John
> Reimann via Marxism 
> Sent: Sunday, 28 January 2018 2:06:52 AM
> To: Chris Slee
> Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: In blow to Trump, Syrian Kurds call on
> al-Assad to Save them from Turkey | Informed Comment
>
>   POSTING RULES & NOTES  
> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
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> *
>
> thank you, Chris Slee, for giving the complete statement from the Afrin
> administration. One thing upon which we all agree, I think, is that the
> Kurdish leaders are not stupid or ignorant when it comes to realpolitik.
> They must know perfectly well that inviting Assad to intervene will not
> stop there. They also must know perfectly well what all their stress on the
> region being "part of Syria" and about "Syria's territorial integrity"
> means. It means that in the end, despite all the silliness of
> decentralization, they accept that the central Syrian government - meaning
> Assad - has final say about what is and is not allowed in Afrin. And they
> all agree that a powerful anti-Assad movement will be prohibited.
>
> Basically, they are trying to make a deal with Assad: "Let us administer
> this region and we will insure that nothing is done to destabilize your
> position. Meanwhile, we expect you to step in and protect us from Erdogan."
> This shows the limits of their whole strategy. They want some form of
> independence (yes, they do) within the limits of capitalism. They are
> trying to build a Kurdish rights movement in isolation from all the other
> movements

Re: [Marxism] Fwd: In blow to Trump, Syrian Kurds call on al-Assad to Save them from Turkey | Informed Comment

2018-01-27 Thread Chris Slee via Marxism 
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The PYD has always said its aim is not an independent Kurdish state, but 
autonomy within a democratic Syria, with linguistic and cultural rights for 
Kurds and other minorities.

Thus when the Afrin administration says that Afrin is "part of Syria", that is 
nothing new.

The statement aims at exposing the Assad regime's failure to defend Syria's 
"territorial integrity" against the Turkish invasion.  If the statement has the 
effect of prodding the regime into taking some action against the invasion 
(e.g. threatening to shoot down Turkish military aircraft entering Syrian 
airspace), that will help the defenders of Afrin.  In the (more likely) event 
that Assad continues to allow the invasion to go unchallenged, it might lead to 
questioning of his credentials as a defender of Syria.

John Reimann claims that "the Kurdish leaders...accept that the central Syrian 
government - meaning Assad - has final say about what is and is not allowed in 
Afrin.  And they all agree that a powerful anti-Assad movement will be 
prohibited".

In fact the Kurdish and other leaders of the Democratic Federation of Northern 
Syria want the "central Syrian government" to be democratised so that it is no 
longer the dictatorship of Assad.  

But the question is: what sort of movement is needed to bring democracy?  Being 
"anti-Assad" is not sufficient.  Some "anti-Assad" groups are religious 
sectarians and/or ethnic chauvinists.  Some have been coopted into Turkey's war 
on the DFNS.

Democracy can only be created by a multi-ethnic and multi-religious movement 
that can win the support of those Syrians - particularly the religious 
minorities - who currently view Assad as the lesser evil.

Chris Slee


From: Marxism  on behalf of John Reimann 
via Marxism 
Sent: Sunday, 28 January 2018 2:06:52 AM
To: Chris Slee
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: In blow to Trump, Syrian Kurds call on al-Assad to 
Save them from Turkey | Informed Comment

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thank you, Chris Slee, for giving the complete statement from the Afrin
administration. One thing upon which we all agree, I think, is that the
Kurdish leaders are not stupid or ignorant when it comes to realpolitik.
They must know perfectly well that inviting Assad to intervene will not
stop there. They also must know perfectly well what all their stress on the
region being "part of Syria" and about "Syria's territorial integrity"
means. It means that in the end, despite all the silliness of
decentralization, they accept that the central Syrian government - meaning
Assad - has final say about what is and is not allowed in Afrin. And they
all agree that a powerful anti-Assad movement will be prohibited.

Basically, they are trying to make a deal with Assad: "Let us administer
this region and we will insure that nothing is done to destabilize your
position. Meanwhile, we expect you to step in and protect us from Erdogan."
This shows the limits of their whole strategy. They want some form of
independence (yes, they do) within the limits of capitalism. They are
trying to build a Kurdish rights movement in isolation from all the other
movements around them such as the Arab Spring and what came of it, workers'
strikes in Turkey and Iran. Or put it another way: Just like all such
movements, they need allies. The question is whether they will seek allies
in the working class struggles of the region or from one capitalist regime
or another. Time and again they have sought the latter and time and again
they have been "betrayed". I put that in quotes, because when a lion chases
off a leopard in order to kill and feast on an antelope, that antelope
wasn't betrayed. It was simply a matter of which killer gets to reap the
spoils.

John Reimann

--
"No one is going to give you the education you need to overthrow them."
Assata Shakur
Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: In blow to Trump, Syrian Kurds call on al-Assad to Save them from Turkey | Informed Comment

2018-01-27 Thread John Reimann via Marxism 
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thank you, Chris Slee, for giving the complete statement from the Afrin
administration. One thing upon which we all agree, I think, is that the
Kurdish leaders are not stupid or ignorant when it comes to realpolitik.
They must know perfectly well that inviting Assad to intervene will not
stop there. They also must know perfectly well what all their stress on the
region being "part of Syria" and about "Syria's territorial integrity"
means. It means that in the end, despite all the silliness of
decentralization, they accept that the central Syrian government - meaning
Assad - has final say about what is and is not allowed in Afrin. And they
all agree that a powerful anti-Assad movement will be prohibited.

Basically, they are trying to make a deal with Assad: "Let us administer
this region and we will insure that nothing is done to destabilize your
position. Meanwhile, we expect you to step in and protect us from Erdogan."
This shows the limits of their whole strategy. They want some form of
independence (yes, they do) within the limits of capitalism. They are
trying to build a Kurdish rights movement in isolation from all the other
movements around them such as the Arab Spring and what came of it, workers'
strikes in Turkey and Iran. Or put it another way: Just like all such
movements, they need allies. The question is whether they will seek allies
in the working class struggles of the region or from one capitalist regime
or another. Time and again they have sought the latter and time and again
they have been "betrayed". I put that in quotes, because when a lion chases
off a leopard in order to kill and feast on an antelope, that antelope
wasn't betrayed. It was simply a matter of which killer gets to reap the
spoils.

John Reimann

-- 
"No one is going to give you the education you need to overthrow them."
Assata Shakur
Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: In blow to Trump, Syrian Kurds call on al-Assad to Save them from Turkey | Informed Comment

2018-01-26 Thread Andrew Pollack via Marxism 
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I've seen this Ocalanite statement in various posts and tweets and was
waiting, before commenting, to be sure it's not a forgery.

It's one thing to project a non-state, non-national, cross-border entity.
It's another to do so as an excuse to not fight for national
self-determination. And it's yet another thing for the leaders of such an
entity to call explicitly for Assad to protect Syrian national sovereignty
(the statement explicitly says Assad has a duty to do so!).

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 7:39 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

>
> "There's a sucker born every minute."
>
> P.T. Barnum
>
> https://www.juancole.com/2018/01/trump-syrian-turkey.html
>
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