Re: [Marxism] So Alison Weir supports Trump (big surprise)

2016-11-06 Thread Jeff via Marxism

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On 2016-11-06 23:24, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote:



What are you saying? That Doug Henwood was trying to boost the Trump 
vote?


I'm not talking about any leftists doing analysis. That's in a different 
ballpark. I'm talking about agitation against Clinton where the clear 
effect is to boost her opponent. But indeed, there is a layer that I 
used to call part of the "left" like Mike Whitney or Julian Assange 
(actually he never even claimed to be left) which is consistently 
supporting the far-right in the name of anti-imperialism, and in whose 
cases I guess this does apply. But essentially no one on this list is in 
that category. We can discuss both candidates or the impossible 
candidates (Stein etc.) to our hearts content without causing the 
slightest actual effect on the election outcome.

- Jeff
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Re: [Marxism] So Alison Weir supports Trump (big surprise)

2016-11-06 Thread Louis Proyect via Marxism

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On 11/6/16 5:03 PM, Jeff via Marxism wrote:




It is sickening to see much of the American left playing out the
anti-Clinton theme as if they can't figure out that this is the way you
increase the vote for the (near-) fascist Trump. After all, no one has
much nice to say about either viable candidate, so the way you support
the one is by trashing the other so they will lose the "unpopularity
contest" that the US election has become.


What are you saying? That Doug Henwood was trying to boost the Trump vote?


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Re: [Marxism] So Alison Weir supports Trump (big surprise)

2016-11-06 Thread A.R. G via Marxism
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Also, if I remember correctly Clay was banned for reducing anti-Clinton
sentiment to Trump apologetics. How about some equal treatment? God knows
the list would lose nothing.

- Amith
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Re: [Marxism] So Alison Weir supports Trump (big surprise)

2016-11-06 Thread A.R. G via Marxism
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There is literally nothing in the article that endorses Trump. Jeff is a
troll, please ignore.

- Amith

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jeff via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> On 2016-11-06 08:47, Ken Hiebert via Marxism wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.councilforthenationalinterest.org/new/?p=4221
>>
>
> It is sickening to see much of the American left playing out the
> anti-Clinton theme as if they can't figure out that this is the way you
> increase the vote for the (near-) fascist Trump. After all, no one has much
> nice to say about either viable candidate, so the way you support the one
> is by trashing the other so they will lose the "unpopularity contest" that
> the US election has become.
>
> But it's not hard to imagine that an ex-CIA official (also the executive
> director of the CNI) would lean in that direction. And from all that I had
> learned about her, I wouldn't have expected Alison Weir to be voting for
> any other than the fascist. But I wouldn't really have predicted that she'd
> go so far as to do so blatantly on the webpage of her organization.
>
> To refresh your memory, Alison Weir is the president of the so-called
> Council for the National Interest (CNI) and the founder of If Americans
> Knew, both right-wing anti-Israel organizations trying to exploit the
> success and prestige of the Palestine solidarity movement, as has been
> previously discussed on this list. Although you wouldn't think that an
> organization with a rather narrow focus (advising the American state
> against support for Israel) would support a canidate in a general election
> campaign, one can also see that by doing so she's hardly likely to cause
> anyone to quit that outfit. I'm sure the rightist membership of that group
> would already be voting 20:1 in favor of Trump. I didn't bother to look at
> her other organization, If Americans Knew, where that group's non-profit
> status would make such blatent electoral intervention problematic.
>
> Yes, I know that Amith wrote a very contrary post. He is very much in
> denial, which is why he came out screaming that the presence of this
> article on the CNI site was NOT an endorsement of Trump, even when no one
> had even posed that question! And I guess he could hold up the disclaimer
> at the bottom of the page. But I'm talking about what everyone can see if
> they are not in denial. For Alison Weir to post a vehemently anti-Clinton
> article (one not even directly addressing the issue of concern to the CNI,
> namely Israel) just 18 days before the election, cannot be viewed as
> anything other than motivation for the reader to vote for Trump.
>
> Also, as an aside, let me just be clear about one thing. For all the awful
> things I have pointed out about Alison Weir and her organizations, I have
> never said or believed that she or these groups need to be "smashed" or
> "taken on." The growth of non-left organizations opposing Israel and
> American aid to Israel is a sign of the success of our movement in support
> of Palestine. The more successful we are in projecting the voices of
> Palestine, the more will cracks emerge within the ruling class and
> mainstream politics over the issue of American ties with and support to
> Israel. I want to see two, three, many CNI's. The reason Alison Weir and
> her right-wing groups became controversial within the solidarity movement
> (and on this list, mainly through Amith) was the importance of
> differentiating ourselves, and the Palestinians, from right-wing opposition
> to Israel. We support the freedom struggle for Palestine regardless of what
> "foreign policy" is deemed optimum for imperialism. And above all, we shall
> not allow the rightist politics (and frequently accompanying anti-semitism)
> of those anti-Israel forces to tar the image of the Palestinians and their
> supporters, and in particular we take care to avoid providing fuel for the
> "Anti-zionism is anti-semitism" mantra spewed by Israel.
>
> - Jeff
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