Re: [Marxism] Socialists Unite: Statement from Workers World Party FIST
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I'm not sure what experience Joaquin has with WWP in Atlanta, so I don't know if his critique of the statement is solely a textual exegesis. I didn't have much sympathy for the call for a Fifth International, given the lack of clarity and the inclusion in the list of proposed members of bourgeois forces. But I'll judge this statement on its merits, and on the basis of my recent experience with WWP in person. My experience the last couple years in being in united fronts that included WWP around Palestine, immigrant rights, etc., has been a productive one. That's not to say that WWP does its movement work in every instance the way that my group (SA) does it. But it DOES mean that they don't deserve the off-the-cuff hostility shown here. And it also means they have very clearly differentiated themselves from PSL, which continues to act in a brazenly sectarian manner in the antiwar movement. Andy On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 1:16 AM, Joaquín Bustelo jbust...@bellsouth.net wrote: On 6/23/2010 10:29 AM, Greg Butterfield dumped this Marcyite gambit on the list: Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Inducing the Madness of Crowds
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == You can read Kalecki's article at http://www.cfeps.org/ss2006/readings/Courvisanos_c.pdf -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu michaelperelman.wordpress.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Clinton the conspiracy theorist...
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Jaquin writes: What Brad argues is CLEARLY a conspiracy theory. He says they won't take the simple direct step of blowing up the well to shut it down BECAUSE they want to keep the possibility of renewing extraction in the future. For this to be true, there would have to be one or more groups of decision makers who have privately deliberated and have reached that unpublicized decision for the secret reason that Brad offers. If that ain't a conspiracy, then I don't know what is. - Well I guess you don't know what a conspiracy theory is then. Why is it that there would have to have been decision makers privately deliberating and reaching the decision for secret reasons? It is call the profit motive. I never once said there were secret meetings or a deliberated plan in place. That is *your* conspiracy understanding of how capitalism operates, not mine. My understanding of capitalism tells me that capitalists and capitalist states will do as little as possible when it comes to environmental protection, that they will do whatever least bit of protection that the public will allow them to. They don't have long meetings over how this will play out in the press and with the public to consider the best possible solution with the least possible ideological fallout. They simply act and then react to public pressure. If everyone buys the idea that BP is best suited and is doing everything possible to stop the flow - because it is obviously bad PR for this thing to go on - then they just do what they planned to do. JB- When Brad first raised it towards the beginning of June, I pointed out that the continuing economic cost to BP far outdistanced any putative economic benefit to saving the well. And as for Obama and the government, nothing would have pleased them MORE than being able to bring a close to this spill quickly and decisively, for they are also paying a tremendous political cost. That is ALSO what is clearly and beyond debate in the interests of the oil industry AS A WHOLE. Because the argument would then be, sure we had a spill, but now we have a way of stopping it in a few days before there is extensive environmental damage. So there's no need for new restrictions, a drilling moratorium, etc. Any way you cut it, losing this one well would be FAR PREFERABLE to continuing with this situation, even just for another week or two. No, what you said was that BP stood to make no financial gain from not stopping the spill sooner. Which I then proved to be false - BP is still making money off of the recovered oil and will be back at this well quickly after this is over and the press has moved on. Have there been costs associated with it, yes. Have these costs been greater than the benefits, perhaps, but to think that they have this all figured out and planned is the true conspiracy theory and one that gives way too much credit to capitalists. The only thing that pleased Obama and others more than stopping it soon would be to have BP stop it themselves, thereby maintaining the confidence, or rather sheer reliance, on corporations to solve our/their problems. This trumps any short-term political cost Obama pays to progressive environmentalists (who he is really in office to sell out anyway). And no, the worst possible scenario for the oil companies would be for the government to step in and solve it quickly thereby showing the need for intervention in markets by the state to secure the public good. But this is not conspiracy as this idea probably never really entered into the heads of the elite because of the ideologically rigidity under which they operate. I never said that it was all about this one well, but that it was political. I think I have made this point dozens of times already yet you and Mark simply ignore what I say and attack some strawman argument about saving one well. Pitiful. JB- When I first said this WEEKS ago, Brad conceded the point: yes now it appears that BP and Obama would not have tried to end the spill on the cheap and save the well, but hindsight [is 20-20]. When this thing first happened I would guarantee that there were meetings at BP in which they went through various options and choose to go with the cheapest plans and the ones that would save the well first. That was Brad on June 20, admitting it was clear --at least in retrospect-- that BP and Obama would NOT be letting this continue if they could help it. --- Actually my point was obviously the
Re: [Marxism] Niall Ferguson and the Tories' war on history
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == My daughter took her GCSE in history ~2 years ago, and asked me to quiz her from the history book, about the Vietnam war. After reading it, I told her that it is a complete rubbish, and gave her a lecture. Her response was its *landing time* dad, get real. They don't want to know about progressive history, but what is in the book! after a long discussion, she was convinced, and got a C in the exam. As it happened, a couple of weeks ago I met her history politics teacher in a local TUC meeting. He actually remember her, and said that he still couldn't figure out why she got this lousy grade. its *landing time* for your commentators as well. Apologies if I'm being excessively dim, but what does 'landing time' mean? Don't think I'm being flippant, I genuinely don't know what that expression implies - I've never heard it before. The story you describe tallies exactly with my own experiences of examination here in Ireland, and the experiences of friends family of mine. It is history by rote, reducing learning about the past to a process of cramregurgitate, cramregurgitate, with little or no engagement of the student's critical faculties whatsoever. It is symptomatic of an education system that remains, by and large, what Padraig Pearse railed against in 'The Murder Machine' almost a hundred years ago. Seb Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/sebthegooner%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Jim Bohlen, Led in Creation of Greenpeace, Dies at 84
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == NY Times July 7, 2010 Jim Bohlen, Led in Creation of Greenpeace, Dies at 84 By WILLIAM GRIMES Jim Bohlen, whose snap decision to sail to Amchitka Island, Alaska, to protest an underground nuclear test led to the creation of the environmental organization Greenpeace, died Monday in Comox, British Columbia. He was 84 and lived in Courtenay, British Columbia. The cause was complications of Parkinson’s disease, his daughter, Margot Bradley, said. Mr. Bohlen was a founder of the Don’t Make a Wave Committee, a group of Sierra Club members determined to oppose nuclear testing at Amchitka Island in the Aleutians, which had begun in 1969. With a test scheduled for fall 1971, little more than a year away, Mr. Bohlen complained to his wife, Marie, that the committee was deliberating too slowly. As she offhandedly suggested that they sail a boat to the test site, a reporter for The Vancouver Sun called to check in on the committee’s deliberations. Mr. Bohlen, caught off guard, said, “We hope to sail a boat to Amchitka to confront the bomb,” a remark that appeared in the newspaper the next day. The committee made good on Mr. Bohlen’s pledge. After Irving Stowe, a core member, organized a fund-raising concert in Vancouver with Joni Mitchell, James Taylor, Phil Ochs and the Canadian rock band Chilliwack, the committee leased the halibut fishing vessel Phyllis Cormack, and, after renaming it Greenpeace, sailed to Alaska. Although the boat was intercepted by the Coast Guard, public outcry caused a delay in the test. The program was later abandoned, and Amchitka Island was turned into a bird sanctuary. Today Greenpeace is an international organization with more than three million members that carries out environmental campaigns through its offices in 40 countries. James Calvin Bohlen was born on July 4, 1926, in the Bronx. He joined the Navy in World War II, serving as a radio operator in the Aleutian Islands. After earning a degree in mechanical engineering from New York University in 1949, he worked for a trucking company on Long Island and an aerospace defense contractor in Princeton, N.J. His first marriage ended in divorce. In addition to his daughter, Margot, of Philadelphia, and his second wife, Marie, he is survived by a son, Lance, of Seattle, and three grandchildren. In 1967 Mr. Bohlen moved his family to Vancouver to put his stepson out of reach of the military draft in the United States. He and his wife became active in antiwar, antinuclear and environmental causes. After buying land on Denman Island in the Georgia Strait in 1974, Mr. Bohlen and his wife set about creating a farming community with geodesic dome houses that would be self-sufficient in food and energy. The project inspired him to write “The New Pioneer’s Handbook: Getting Back to the Land in an Energy-Scarce World” (Schocken, 1975). In the 1980s, when Greenpeace resumed its campaigns against nuclear weapons, Mr. Bohlen, who had left the group, returned to lead actions against testing of the cruise missile and took part in the Nuclear Free Seas campaign, which was intended to prevent nuclear weapons from being brought into port cities aboard the warships of nuclear navies. As a candidate for the Green Party, he ran unsuccessfully for Parliament in Vancouver in 1984 and 1988. He was a director of Greenpeace until retiring in 1993. His memoir, “Making Waves: The Origins and Future of Greenpeace,” was published by Black Rose Books in 2000. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Socialists Unite: Statement from Workers World Party FIST
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == My experience is different than that of Andy's with both WWP and PSL. On the West Coast, the dominent force among these two small groups is the PSL, not WWP. Thus, ANSWER plays an unusually large role in the general anti-Imperialist movement. Over the years, they, PSL and ANSWER have moved away from sectarian 'take over' and dominating style of front work toward less sectarian arrangements with other groups on the left and in the community. The recent anti-Zionist action on the docks in Oakland is the most recent case. The PSL through ANSWER called a general community meeting to organize our response to the arrival of an Israeli ship after the call went out by the Palestinian trade union movement to boycott Israeli shipping in response to the murderous attack on the peace folitla to Gaza. The meeting was run by PSL but...open to anyone with pre-arranged speakers from...members of WWP and other groups who united around this action. It was a model for united front type actions and PSL's unsectarian stance accounted for this. Everyone without exception was able to speak, make proposals, etc. The WWP has a leading supporter in the ILWU which certainly helps smooth over differences. Additionally, everyone was encouraged to participate in security and the left, and community groups and unions came together to bring about a very succesful event. David Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Business as Usual: Behind Turkey and Israel's Not-So-Secret Meeting
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Counterpunch Weekend Edition July 9 - 11, 2010 Business as Usual Behind Turkey and Israel's Not-So-Secret Meeting By RANNIE AMIRI Recriminatory words exchanged between Turkey and Israel over the latter’s May 31 assault on the Gaza-bound Freedom Flotilla have given way to the pragmatism of national self-interest. On June 30, ministers from the two countries “secretly” met in Brussels to attempt to smooth over differences and repair bilateral ties marred in the wake of the attack. It was a startling development when contrasted with the indignation voiced by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan after eight Turkish activists and one dual U.S.-Turkish citizen aboard the Mavi Marmara were killed by Israeli commandos. At the time, he characterized the damage done to Turkey-Israel relations as “irreparable.” Erdogan quickly became a hero in Gaza. He was seen as the only regional leader who had taken demonstrable action and directly challenged the three-year-old siege. His forthright words were surprisingly unencumbered by the diplomatic baggage Middle Easterners have long come to expect from their leaders: “Despots, gangsters even pirates have specific sensitiveness, follow some specific morals. Those who do not follow any morality or ethics, those who do not act with any sensitivity, to call them such names would even be a compliment to them ... This brazen, irresponsible, reckless government that recognizes no law and tramples on any kind of humanitarian virtue, this attack of the Israeli government by all means ... must be punished.” Since the raid, Turkey has recalled its ambassador from Tel Aviv, cancelled joint military exercises and denied the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) permission to use its airspace. While in Brussels to discuss its bid to join the European Union, Turkey’s Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu met with Israel’s Industry and Trade Minister Benjamin Ben-Eliezer. The meeting came at the behest of President Obama when he met Erdogan the week prior at the G20 Summit in Toronto. Davutoglu was reported to have insisted Israel comply with three demands before relations could be restored: issue a formal apology over the raid, pay compensation to the victims’ families and consent to an international inquiry to investigate the operation. Netanyahu’s precarious governing coalition was placed in immediate jeopardy afterward; Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman of the extremist Yisrael Beitanu party was livid when he learned of the conference on television. Evidently, Netanyahu kept him and the foreign ministry out of the loop, opting instead to make the far more Turkey-friendly Ben-Eliezer his representative. Snubs and political maneuvering aside, it is clear the leaders of Turkey and Israel endorsed the ministerial get-together. It is also logical that Israel would want to engage in fence-mending with a Muslim nation (and NATO member) which whom it previously had enjoyed good ties and benefited from training in its airspace. Indeed, Israel had adequately repaid Turkey for negotiating a nuclear fuel swap deal with Iran, possibly setting back its case for a preemptive strike. It had also taken Turkey’s mediation between Israel and Syria off the table. Having accomplished these goals, Israel could now afford to try and recoup the perks of the strategic relationship. For Turkey, the ties are equally important. In late June, a military delegation was in Israel receiving instruction on how to operate pilotless aircraft and drones—the same kind used by the IDF against Palestinians. Such technology is coveted by Turkey in their ongoing battle with Kurdish rebels in the southeastern part of the country and northern Iraq. As the New York Times reported, Turkey’s $190 million deal for Israeli drones has not been cancelled. An analyst from Jane’s Defense Weekly relays from Turkish sources that military trade between the two nations accounted for $1.8 billion in 2007, making Israel second only to the U.S. as an arms supplier to Turkey. As one Israeli official said, “It’s business as usual.” Diplomatic initiatives and overtures that reduce Mideast tensions are always welcome. It must be recognized, however, that Turkey and Israel’s motives to do so are self-serving. Many will rightly ask if Turkey is more concerned with repairing relations with Israel so it can continue to acquire the desired military technology. They also wonder if Erdogan may yet find cause not to sell out Gaza’s Palestinians. Rannie Amiri is an independent Middle East commentator. He may be reached at: rbamiri [at] yahoo [dot] com. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at:
Re: [Marxism] Socialists Unite: Statement from Workers World Party FIST
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == That is VERY good to hear, David. Hopefully that style will spread to other areas of their work. On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 11:14 AM, DW dwalters...@gmail.com wrote: The recent anti-Zionist action on the docks in Oakland is the most recent case... Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] NYT: Dead for a Century, Twain Says What He Meant
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Whether anguishing over American military interventions abroad or delivering jabs at Wall Street tycoons, this Twain is strikingly contemporary. Though the autobiography also contains its share of homespun tales, some of its observations about American life are so acerbic - at one point Twain refers to American soldiers as 'uniformed assassins' - that his heirs and editors, as well as the writer himself, feared they would damage his reputation if not withheld. 'From the first, second, third and fourth editions all sound and sane expressions of opinion must be left out,' Twain instructed them in 1906. 'There may be a market for that kind of wares a century from now. There is no hurry. Wait and see.' http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/books/10twain.html -- Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Thank You, Rand Paul (from a Historian)
The thing to remember about libertarians is that for the most part they are the Republicans who go to the nude beach. It isn't like , ultimately, the Huffington Demoncrats offer anything better for the mass of America. If anything, their incoherent brand of imperialist warpig federalism is a harder sell because it comes across as elitist. CJ -- ELT in Japan http://www.eltinjapan.com/ Japan Higher Education Outlook http://japanheo.blogspot.com/ We are Feral Cats http://wearechikineko.blogspot.com/ ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
