Re: [Marxism] Eva Golinger, narconews, upsidedownworld, EcuadorSolidarity Network
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Artesian says the real issue is whether Golinger proves NED or USAID gave money to CONAIE. I don't know what world you live in, but the real issue was that there was a US backed coup in Ecuador and we should expose it. Artesian couldn't care less about that. Does Artesian oppose the coup? I don't read that he does. The real issue for him, like the Ecuador Solidarity Network is to attack one of the people who has exposed US roles in Latin American coups. What is Golinger's track record so far? On Venezuela and Honduras, has she written a lot of BS, or is it accurate? Does Artesian reject the made-up stories about Golinger that narconews or ecuadorsolidaritynetwork present? No. Evidently you are on the same side of the fence as Greg McDonald and those coup-makers and the CIA in Ecuador. If not, then say so. Do you think the CIA is just going to write a check directly to some leader of CONAIE? Sometimes they are stupid and sometimes they are professional. In Cuba there are sometimes many transfers of money between the US government and its final destination, to the dissidents. Maybe we should be attacking Cuba, not the US, because they uncover too many degrees of separation for our liking. We can read the statement of the president of CONAIE on October 6 about the coup, where he was categorically opposed to Correa, and denied there was any coup attempt. Is this the kind of statement someone would make who had been bought with US money? Yes. USAID gave $38 million to groups in Ecuador this year alone. Golinger says because of the delay in finding out exactly where this went, we won't know for a few years. But in previous years, people connected with CONAIE got money. We should focus on the real issues: opposing the coup, exposing the US role in the coup. A minor issue would be criticising the stance the president of CONAIE has taken in support of the coup. Instead Artesian wants to divert attention from any of those issues to whether Golinger has enough 2010 information about US funding to indigenous groups to prove her case. Well, we see where you stand. So what's next? Will you argue there's no real evidence to tie the FBI to the murders of Martin Luther King and Malcolm X? Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Eva Golinger, narconews, upsidedownworld, EcuadorSolidarity Network
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 2:03 AM, stansfield smith stansfieldsm...@yahoo.com wrote: Artesian says the real issue is whether Golinger proves NED or USAID gave money to CONAIE. I don't know what world you live in, but the real issue was that there was a US backed coup in Ecuador and we should expose it. Artesian couldn't care less about that. Does Artesian oppose the coup? I don't read that he does. The real issue for him, like the Ecuador Solidarity Network is to attack one of the people who has exposed US roles in Latin American coups. What is Golinger's track record so far? On Venezuela and Honduras, has she written a lot of BS, or is it accurate? I leave it to the Ecuadorians to expose the real coup plotters. I think they are up to the task. According to various Ecuadorian and Mexican media sources, members of the Ecuadorian police force involved in the coup attempt are being investigated. For the record, this group is a small minority in comparison with the 1000 or so members of the police force who were protesting based upon what they thought were legitimate economic grievances against recent changes in the Law of Public Services. They may have been manipulated, or not, but that does not mean the vast majority who were protesting that day are guilty of supporting a coup attempt either. At least some members of the Correa cabinet are exercising proper judicial restraint. On the other hand, Correa is also taking advantage of the crackdown climate to launch scurrilous broadsides against some of the unions and MPD leadership who were protesting on the side of the police. This is typical Correa demagoguery. He has not targeted the CONAIE for supporting the coup attempt, just the MPD and a few of the unions. I did a little background research on my own. For the record, Ms. Golinger was born in the USA, she attended Sarah Lawrence University, where she studied music, and then she attended CUNY law school. She is licensed as an attorney in the USA. According to her own website, part of her business is to get H-1B visas for others. According to wiki: The H-1B is a non-immigrant visa in the United States under the Immigration and Nationality Act, section 101(a)(15)(H). It allows U.S. employers to temporarily employ foreign workers in specialty occupations. If a foreign worker in H-1B status quits or is dismissed from the sponsoring employer, the worker can apply for a change of status to another non-immigrant status, find another employer (subject to application for adjustment of status and/or change of visa), or must leave the US. The regulations define a “specialty occupation” as requiring theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge in a field of human endeavor[1] including, but not limited to, architecture, engineering, mathematics, physical sciences, social sciences, biotechnology, medicine and health, education, law, accounting, business specialties, theology, and the arts, and requiring the attainment of a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent as a minimum[2] (with the exception of fashion models, who must be of distinguished merit and ability.)[3] Likewise, the foreign worker must possess at least a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent and state licensure, if required to practice in that field. H-1B work-authorization is strictly limited to employment by the sponsoring employer. There's nothing really remarkable one way or the other about all this, but I should remind you, Mr. Smith, that your contrarian attitude is leading you to make ridiculous and faulty statements, such as the one you made earlier that Golinger is not a US citizen, but a Venezuelan. If I said the sky was blue you would no doubt say it was overcast. Does Artesian reject the made-up stories about Golinger that narconews or ecuadorsolidaritynetwork present? No. Evidently you are on the same side of the fence as Greg McDonald and those coup-makers and the CIA in Ecuador. If not, then say so. So those of us who know a little history of Ecuador, who have spent some actual time in the country and who know that Correa is not really a principled leftist, and who, along with others inside Ecuador on the left, are critical of Correa and his policies, we are now on the same side as the coup-makers and the CIA because we come to the defense of one of the most powerful and principled social movements in Latin America? For the record, I do think this was a coup attempt, but it also has the tenor of a feeler action, like DW has said earlier, to test the waters, to see how everyone lines up, to check the correlation of forces. But that does not mean that I support Rafael Correa. I do not, but however flawed I think his presidency, his pseudo leftist co-optation of
Re: [Marxism] Eva Golinger, narconews, upsidedownworld, EcuadorSolidarity Network
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Cool story, bro. Nice attempt to distort the 'real issue' in the exchange of posts, which was the TOPIC of the POSTs-- and that topic wasn't whether there was a coup or not, whether I think there was or was not a coup, but rather Eva Golinger's assertions that CONAIE's actions and statements, and those of other indigenous groups, were evidence of an accommodation to imperialism which she suspects' is brought on by the influence of NED etc. That was the real issue in the posts. If I were you--and I'm so very glad I'm not--I'd try real hard to read what is actually written rather than change the topic of the ongoing discussion. The issue isn't how accurate, or inaccurate Ms. Golinger's reporting has been on Honduras or Venezuela. The issue is the accuracy of her suspicions about CONAIE in Ecuador. If you were me-- and I'm even more happy you're not-- then you would know that I've already posted my view of the events of Sept 30 and my opposition to the coup. If you were me, you wouldn't regard the lack of evidence as evidence, or possible evidence of a crime which in fact did not occur-- which is to say CONAIE's support for the coup. On Sept. 30, the day of the coup attempt, CONAIE did NOT support the coup. CONAIE opposed it and reasserted its oppositon to the policies of Correa which have repressed the movement of indigenous people. If you were me, you wouldn't introduce extraneous issues into the discussion in the attempt to cloud the issues-- you know, like whether or not the FBI was involved in the murder of King and Malcolm X. If you were me you wouldn't use the typically Vyshinky tactic of using your own ignorance of what somebody has in fact written and said [in this case, me] to proclaim We see where you stand. But since you are you, you avoid, distort, conflate, and make things up, which puts you firmly on the side, and in the sorry tradition, of so many others who talk left and walk right. - Original Message - From: stansfield smith stansfieldsm...@yahoo.com To: sartes...@earthlink.net Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Eva Golinger, narconews, upsidedownworld, EcuadorSolidarity Network
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == If you read the report that I read, that Eva Golinger submitted as evidence, and if you read the article of hers that I read, then it should be clear to you as it is to me that she attempted to determine a 6 degrees of separation that actually would link CONAIE to funds provided by the NED. That was clearly her intent. She had not evidence of such funds being distributed to CONAIE but she clearly implied that CONAIE due to its proximity, or association with associates of associates of those who did receive such funds was acting in the objective interest of imperialism in their refusal to climb on the Correa bandwagon. That's the real issue. Not whether she explicitly calls CONAIE a puppet of imperialism, but what she implies, what she intends by producing a report that is evidence of nothing and attempting to link that report to CONAIE's disagreement with Correa. Is there a need to reproduce the article from Golinger that was cited here one more time to verify that? That's not hard to do. - Original Message - From: stansfield smith stansfieldsm...@yahoo.com To: sartes...@earthlink.net Obviously Golinger didn't write anything different from what she wrote on this list. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
