[Marxism] Have a happy and merry December 25
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Today, as the world pauses on the birthday of one of history's greatest men, whose teachings continue to benefit the entire human race, let us join in toasting the memory of Sir Isaac Newton, and of all the giants on whose shoulders he stood. Jim Farmelant http://independent.academia.edu/JimFarmelant www.foxymath.com Learn or Review Basic Math New Online Shopping Tool Get Discounts Bonus Point Offers! American Express#174 Cardmembers Only. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d157bd96c8498a3967st03vuc Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Have a happy and merry December 25
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Yes, but it was also the birthday of a radical Jewish carpenter who was rather pessimistic about the prospects of the rich in saving themselves. ML Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Have a happy and merry December 25
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Today, as the world pauses on the birthday of one of history's greatest men, whose teachings continue to benefit the entire human race, let us join in toasting the memory of Sir Isaac Newton, and of all the giants on whose shoulders he stood. Jim Farmelant Diet Help Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ebxJW8tgEy7tFtQ3G1s-0AAAJ1BRugI4sJACAWmXIev8NAFPAAYAAADNAAAYQAA= Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Have a happy and merry December 25
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Seasons greetings with the ubiquitous message The bourgeoisie…….has pitilessly torn asunder the motley feudal ties that bound man to his “natural superiors”, and has left remaining no other nexus between man and man than naked self-interest, than callous “cash payment”-Communist Manifesto George Anthony In a message dated 25/12/2009 12:07:48 GMT Standard Time, farmela...@juno.com writes: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Today, as the world pauses on the birthday of one of history's greatest men, whose teachings continue to benefit the entire human race, let us join in toasting the memory of Sir Isaac Newton, and of all the giants on whose shoulders he stood. Jim Farmelant Diet Help Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ebxJW8tgEy7tFtQ3G1s-0AAAJ1BRug I4sJACAWmXIev8NAFPAAYAAADNAAAYQAA= Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/midhurst14%40aol.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Have a happy and merry December 25
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == If I have understood Jim Farmelant correctly, then he certainly has in mind Jesus' birthday on December 25 who, in his view, is 'one of the greatest men, whose teachings continue to benefit the entire human race'. Such a postulation is based on two premises. But we don't know when that historic person, Jesus, was born. To ascribe the 25th December as his date of birth belongs to the later history of the Church. The assertion that his teachings continue to benefit the entire human race is without any historical foundation. In fact, what people assume to be the teachings of Jesus is in fact the version of Pauline theology: Jesus has nothing to do what Paul preached. Paul's teachings become known as Christianity. Whatever Jesus stood for and preached was followed in the Jerusalem Church. But with the defeat of the the Jewish revolt and the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. the Jerusalem Church came to an end. That also meant the end of the Jesus movement. But the end of Jerusalem Church was the victory of Paul and his cult of 'divine Jesus'. Jesus was replaced with Pauline theology and this subsequently became known as Christianity. It has very little to do with the apocalyptic Jewish teacher, Joshua (Jesus). I leave the discussion of the point whether the so-called teachings of Jesus benefit the entire human race. Anyone with any understanding of world history will be surprised to hear that. On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Jim Farmelant farmela...@juno.com wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Today, as the world pauses on the birthday of one of history's greatest men, whose teachings continue to benefit the entire human race, let us join in toasting the memory of Sir Isaac Newton, and of all the giants on whose shoulders he stood. Jim Farmelant Diet Help Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ebxJW8tgEy7tFtQ3G1s-0AAAJ1BRugI4sJACAWmXIev8NAFPAAYAAADNAAAYQAA= Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/naskha3%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Have a happy and merry December 25
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 23:18:58 +0100 Nasir Khan nask...@gmail.com writes: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Actually, I was talking about Sir Isaac Newton, for whom a better case can be made that the world has benefitted from his discoveries. Who's talking about Jesus? Jim F. I leave the discussion of the point whether the so-called teachings of Jesus benefit the entire human race. Anyone with any understanding of world history will be surprised to hear that. On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Jim Farmelant farmela...@juno.com wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Today, as the world pauses on the birthday of one of history's greatest men, whose teachings continue to benefit the entire human race, let us join in toasting the memory of Sir Isaac Newton, and of all the giants on whose shoulders he stood. Jim Farmelant Diet Help Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ebxJW8tgEy7tFtQ3G1s-0AAAJ1B RugI4sJACAWmXIev8NAFPAAYAAADNAAAYQAA= Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/naskha3%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/farmelantj%40juno.com Weight Loss Program Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=4lfENPcqwCIvQHXgwgYLEgAAJ1BRugI4sJACAWmXIev8NAFPAAYAAADNAAAEUgA= Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Have a happy and merry December 25
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == In a message dated 12/25/2009 2:19:42 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, nask...@gmail.com writes: But we don't know when that historic person, Jesus, was born. From everything I've read, my understanding is that the actual existence of this historic person, Jesus/Joshua is seriously in doubt. He could have been some kind of composite character, or perhaps just a legend, like Paul Bunyan or Pecos Bill. The evidence for his existence is essentially nil. Anyway, the song Stand Up for Judas by the excellent songwriter Leon Rosselson comes to mind. It's from his _Love, Loneliness, Laundry_ album of 1976. Here are the lyrics: Chorus: So stand up, stand up for Judas and the cause that Judas served It was Jesus who betrayed the poor with his word The Romans were the masters when Jesus walked the land In Judea and in Galilee they ruled with an iron hand And the poor were sick with hunger and the rich were clothed in splendour And the rebels whipped and crucified hung rotting as a warning And Jesus knew the answer Said, Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, said, Love your enemies But Judas was a Zealot and he wanted to be free Resist, he said, The Romans' tyranny Jesus was a conjuror, miracles were his game And he fed the hungry thousands and they glorified his name He cured the lame and the lepers, he calmed the wind and the weather And the wretched flocked to touch him so their troubles would be taken And Jesus knew the answer All you who labour, all you who suffer only believe in me But Judas sought a world where no one starved or begged for bread The poor are always with us, Jesus said Now Jesus brought division where none had been before Not the slaves against their masters but the poor against the poor Set son to rise up against father, and brother to fight against brother For he that is not with me is against me, was his teaching Said Jesus, I am the answer You unbelievers shall burn forever, shall die in your sins Not sheep and goats, said Judas, But together we may dare Shake off the chains of misery we share Jesus stood upon the mountain with a distance in his eyes I am the way, the life, he cried, The light that never dies So renounce all earthly treasures and pray to your heavenly father And he pacified the hopeless with the hope of life eternal Said Jesus, I am the answer And you who hunger only remember your reward's in Heaven So Jesus preached the other world but Judas wanted this And he betrayed his master with a kiss By sword and gun and crucifix Christ's gospel has been spread And 2.000 cruel years have shown the way that Jesus led The heretics burned and tortured, and the butchering, bloody crusaders The bombs and rockets sanctified that rain down death from heaven They followed Jesus, they knew the answer All non-believers must be believers or else be broken So put no trust in Saviours, Judas said, For everyone Must be to his or her own self - a sun Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Have a happy and merry December 25
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Actually, a lot of the Christian theology that was codified in the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E. was neither from the Jerusalem Church nor from Paul: it originated in an entirely different religious movement, the religion of Mithra, which arose in Iran around 100 B.C.E. Mithra was a god of light who sacrificed himself for the redemption of the human race. And the religion taught that Mithra was born in a cave on 25 December. This cult gained a large following among the Roman middle classes during the centuries before Constantine adopted Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire. As far as the historic Yeshua is concerned: there is no doubt in my mind that Jesus of the gospels is what is known in literature as a composite character. One element is the wandering preacher, which in Arabic is called a darwish. To this day, Sufi mystic preachers gather a few followers and wander about, preaching in bazaars to whomever will listen and contribute. One common feature, described in the poetry of Jalal ad-Din Rumi, the apostle of Sufism, as well as in the gospels, is writing in the sand. I saw a darwish come into the bazar in Kerman (in east central Iran) with his entourage and begin preaching. Near Kerman is one of the most revered of Sufi shrines, the Shah-e Neamatollah. There is no doubt in my mind that part of the Jesus character, as well as his cousin John the Baptist, is a darwish. Others more knowledgeable than I have discussed the Jewish nationalist whose life ended on a cross with two...what? thieves? Or zealot comrades? But that is another aspect of the composite Jesus character. And the third is Mithra himself, the light of the world, who died to redeem all humanity from evil. However, it is all speculation, because we have no written record from the time in question, which is surprising, considering the meticulous records which the Romans kept. One thing I noticed about Islam when I was traveling in the Middle East, which I think applies to all religions, especially in that part of the world: the Arabic word for religion is ad-Din, which also means obligation. For us in the post-bourgeois revolution West, religion is faith. In the Middle East it is obligation. I'm reminded of Reb Tevye in the Prologue of Fiddler on the Roof, who explains about the Jews: Because of our tradition, each one of us knows who he is and what G-d expects him to do. For the Muslims, and I think for the Greek (and Russian) Orthodox Christians, it is the same. And it became clear to me: religion fundamentally is a way of making people do what the ruling class would like them to do without using violence to force them. And this is what the Emperor Constantine the Great understood: the old Roman religion, based on the Twelve Gods of Mt. Olympus plus each family's Lares et Penates (essentially the deified ancestors), no longer was adequate to hold Roman society together. A new state religion was needed, and Constantine chose Christianity, but Christianity was so theologically varied that it was necessary to define what it was that the new religion believed. That was done by the bishops who met at Nicaea in 325. The leader of the victorious Orthodox faction was Athenasius, Bishop of Alexandria, who wrote the new religions statement of belief. It begins: I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth and of all things visible and invisible... and it is known to Christians as the Nicene Creed. It is recited by all good Catholics and Anglicans as part of the Mass. There is a lot more that could be said about Christianity in its earliest years; in fact many books have been written about it. I would recommend Professor Elaine Pagels's books as a good start. She is an expert on the texts which were discovered at Nag Hammadi in Egypt, which are some of the oldest Christian texts ever found and which were rejected by the Council of Nicaea to be part of the Christian canon of Holy Scripture. -Tom -Original Message- From: marxism-bounces+biastg=embarqmail@lists.econ.utah.edu [mailto:marxism-bounces+biastg=embarqmail@lists.econ.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Nasir Khan Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 5:19 PM To: Thomas Bias Subject: Re: [Marxism] Have a happy and merry December 25 == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == If I have understood Jim Farmelant correctly, then he certainly has in mind Jesus' birthday on December 25 who, in his view, is 'one of the greatest men, whose teachings continue to benefit the entire human race'. Such a postulation is based on two premises. But we don't know when
Re: [Marxism] Have a happy and merry December 25
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Oh, and one other thing: Palestine was a Persian province for about two hundred years, from the time that Kurosh (Cyrus) the Great swept through from the East until Alexander the Great swept through from the West. During that time the Jews prospered under Persian rule. One time I attended an Iranian New Year celebration with my companion at the time, who was Jewish, and she whispered to me, If I'd known I was coming to a Seder I'd have gotten dressed up. And I realized then and there, there is no possible way that the similarity between the Noruz celebration and the Passover celebration could be coincidental. They occur around the time of the spring equinox; they involve a shared evening meal with symbolic dishes; and the evening is given over to readings from traditional poetry and texts. I'm not saying that Passover grew out of Noruz, but it's likely to me that they have a common origin in a spring equinox celebration. Also, the gospels speak of a party in the Jewish leadership called Pharisees. One characteristic of the Arabic language (and its Aramaic precursor) is that it does not like to put two consonants together. The capital of Iran to a Persian is Tehran; to an Arab it is Teheran. The official language of Iran is Farsi (Persian); in Arabic the language is called Farisi. Hello? Is it possible that the seeds of the Mithra religion were already planted in Judaea by the first century C.E.? It is not only possible; it is likely. -Tom Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Have a happy and merry December 25
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/04/02/elaine_pagels/index.html Interview with Pagels in Salon, discussing the Gospel of Judas, which is my favorite. There is no question that Zoroastrianism had a major influence on all three religions of the book--judaism, christianity, and islam. It also influenced Hinduism and Buddhism to a lesser extent. http://www.skepticfiles.org/sr/4zoroa94.htm http://www.godweb.org/linkszoroastrianism.htm http://everything2.com/title/The+Influence+of+Zoroastrianism+on+Christianity+and+Islam Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
