Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Religion Marx
Feuerbach as many people here are probably aware was, despite or perhaps even because of his atheism, an important influence on 20th century theology. People like Karl Barth, Karl Rahner, Martin Buber, and Paul Tillich all wrote about and wrestled with Feuerbach's critique of Christianity and religion. On the secularist side of the fence, both Friedrich Nietzsche and Sigmund Freud were very much influenced by Feuerbach as well. It's a vulgar mistake to take Feuerbach as simply a transitional figure from Hegel to Marx. Jim F. -- CeJ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Religion Marx This might be on the bibliographies, I haven't checked. At any rate, this ten page article looks to take an interesting approach. I don't have a copy though. This is the cheapest (USD 25.00) online price I could find for this article. But as I said, it would be tempting to work out an understanding of Marx not only up against Feuerbach but with some other contemporaries. So we get this paper on F, M and Bloch. A far different but interesting approach for me would be a reconciliation of socialism and Islamist movements, such as Hezbollah and the Sadrist Resistance in Iraq. The US and much of Europe under the tutelage of the hegemon have taken the world down a path to hell in this regard. CJ --- http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a713994384~db=all Religion and communism: Feuerbach, Marx and Bloch Author: Vincent Geoghegan DOI: 10.1080/1084877042000306352 Publication Frequency: 7 issues per year Published in: journal The European Legacy, Volume 9, Issue 5 October 2004 , pages 585 - 595 Subjects: European History; European Studies; Philosophy; Formats available: PDF (English) Purchase Article: US$25.00 - buy now buy now add to cart buy now [ show other buying options ] Abstract Whilst Marx made scattered positive remarks about the details of communist society, he also made important negative indications. Religion features in this negativity: his critique of religion is withering, there is no mention of religious life in communism, and he is emphatic that religion will play no role in such a society. For Marx, one of the tangible freedoms of communism was freedom from religion. The critique of religion is fundamentally inscribed in the very genesis of Marx's thought, and Feuerbach is crucial to understanding Marx's strictures on religion. Yet Feuerbach also figures in Ernst Bloch's very positive approach to religion, which argues that communism involves the freedom to be religious, in the sense of opening up oneself and society to the gold-bearing seams of the religious experience. This essay explores how such different conceptions of the relationship between religion and communism both draw sustenance from Feuerbach. - MLA style citation: Geoghegan, Vincent. Religion and communism: Feuerbach, Marx and Bloch The European Legacy 9.5 (2004). 25 Sep. 2007 http://www.informaworld.com/10.1080/1084877042000306352 ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Religion Marx
Dear Jim, you are right in saying that Feuerbach should be taken in his own rights and not merely as a transitory figure. But on the other hand he paved the way for Marx and recognised by his move to social democracy that his philosophy had in may ways a transitory character. So for example he recognised towards end of his life that the answer to the question, what is happiness, should be answered from political economy's point of view. And in this connection he reffered explicitly to Marx's Capital. Feuerbach's materialist critique of Hegel is a rationalist one. Many people, some of whom you mention, tried to turn his critique into an irrationalist one. DG. -Ursprüngliche Mitteilung- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu Verschickt: Do., 27. Sept. 2007, 13:51 Thema: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Religion Marx Feuerbach as many people here are probably aware was, despite or perhaps even because of his atheism, an important influence on 20th century theology. People like Karl Barth, Karl Rahner, Martin Buber, and Paul Tillich all wrote about and wrestled with Feuerbach's critique of Christianity and religion. On the secularist side of the fence, both Friedrich Nietzsche and Sigmund Freud were very much influenced by Feuerbach as well. It's a vulgar mistake to take Feuerbach as simply a transitional figure from Hegel to Marx. Jim F. -- CeJ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Religion Marx This might be on the bibliographies, I haven't checked. At any rate, this ten page article looks to take an interesting approach. I don't have a copy though. This is the cheapest (USD 25.00) online price I could find for this article. But as I said, it would be tempting to work out an understanding of Marx not only up against Feuerbach but with some other contemporaries. So we get this paper on F, M and Bloch. A far different but interesting approach for me would be a reconciliation of socialism and Islamist movements, such as Hezbollah and the Sadrist Resistance in Iraq. The US and much of Europe under the tutelage of the hegemon have taken the world down a path to hell in this regard. CJ --- http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a713994384~db=all Religion and communism: Feuerbach, Marx and Bloch Author: Vincent Geoghegan DOI: 10.1080/1084877042000306352 Publication Frequency: 7 issues per year Published in: journal The European Legacy, Volume 9, Issue 5 October 2004 , pages 585 - 595 Subjects: European History; European Studies; Philosophy; Formats available: PDF (English) Purchase Article: US$25.00 - buy now buy now add to cart buy now [ show other buying options ] Abstract Whilst Marx made scattered positive remarks about the details of communist society, he also made important negative indications. Religion features in this negativity: his critique of religion is withering, there is no mention of religious life in communism, and he is emphatic that religion will play no role in such a society. For Marx, one of the tangible freedoms of communism was freedom from religion. The critique of religion is fundamentally inscribed in the very genesis of Marx's thought, and Feuerbach is crucial to understanding Marx's strictures on religion. Yet Feuerbach also figures in Ernst Bloch's very positive approach to religion, which argues that communism involves the freedom to be religious, in the sense of opening up oneself and society to the gold-bearing seams of the religious experience. This essay explores how such different conceptions of the relationship between religion and communism both draw sustenance from Feuerbach. - MLA style citation: Geoghegan, Vincent. Religion and communism: Feuerbach, Marx and Bloch The European Legacy 9.5 (2004). 25 Sep. 2007 http://www.informaworld.com/10.1080/1084877042000306352 ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis Bei AOL gibt's jetzt kostenlos eMail für alle. Klicken Sie auf AOL.de um heraus zu finden, was es sonst noch kostenlos bei AOL gibt. ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Religion Marx
Expositions of Marxism have tended to limit treating Feuerbach as a thinker in his own right, but not all scholars, Marxist and non-Marxist, have imposed such limitations. I don't know whether Marx or Kierkegaard even knew of one another's existence, so I don't know what is to be said on that score in terms of the development of either. The Engels piece is interesting in various respects. I would be tempted to find it unsatisfactory, but Engels does mention the importance of the inherited concept of sacrifice. I am not so impressed with the similarities between primitive Christianity and communism, though they might hold propaganda value for many. There are many equally as important factors to consider. Hermeneutics was originally Christian, and I think this includes Schleiermacher, a contemporary of Hegel. But hermeneutics got a big boost in an extra-religious context in the person of Dilthey,a key figure in the development of 19th century thought. At 05:16 PM 9/25/2007, CeJ wrote: One problem is Feuerbach often gets schematized as a stepping stone from Hegel to Marx in the 'progress' of the history of thought. It would tempting to deal with a host of other 19th century thinkers AND Marx. For some in European traditions, it might be interesting to re-visit Sartre, as a synthesis (put simplistically) of Marx and Kierkegaard. Not looking so much at 'Marxist approaches to religion' but simply religion and Marx at what is on the web, and I find the following of interest: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/religion/index.htm http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/religion/book-revelations.htm Still, in the Engels' piece I think we could say this is a Marxist approach to religion (to hermeneutics, which were, as far as I know, originally German Christian hermeneutics before the post-modern episteme gave us things like 'Wittgenstinian approaches to hermeneutics'). CJ ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Religion Marx
Marx Wartofsky's massive study, Feuerbach (Cambridge University Press,1977), would, I think be an exception to that rule. Jim F. -- Ralph Dumain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Expositions of Marxism have tended to limit treating Feuerbach as a thinker in his own right, but not all scholars, Marxist and non-Marxist, have imposed such limitations. I don't know whether Marx or Kierkegaard even knew of one another's existence, so I don't know what is to be said on that score in terms of the development of either. The Engels piece is interesting in various respects. I would be tempted to find it unsatisfactory, but Engels does mention the importance of the inherited concept of sacrifice. I am not so impressed with the similarities between primitive Christianity and communism, though they might hold propaganda value for many. There are many equally as important factors to consider. Hermeneutics was originally Christian, and I think this includes Schleiermacher, a contemporary of Hegel. But hermeneutics got a big boost in an extra-religious context in the person of Dilthey,a key figure in the development of 19th century thought. At 05:16 PM 9/25/2007, CeJ wrote: One problem is Feuerbach often gets schematized as a stepping stone from Hegel to Marx in the 'progress' of the history of thought. It would tempting to deal with a host of other 19th century thinkers AND Marx. For some in European traditions, it might be interesting to re-visit Sartre, as a synthesis (put simplistically) of Marx and Kierkegaard. Not looking so much at 'Marxist approaches to religion' but simply religion and Marx at what is on the web, and I find the following of interest: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/religion/index.htm http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/religion/book-revelations.htm Still, in the Engels' piece I think we could say this is a Marxist approach to religion (to hermeneutics, which were, as far as I know, originally German Christian hermeneutics before the post-modern episteme gave us things like 'Wittgenstinian approaches to hermeneutics'). CJ ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Religion Marx
Religion Marx This might be on the bibliographies, I haven't checked. At any rate, this ten page article looks to take an interesting approach. I don't have a copy though. This is the cheapest (USD 25.00) online price I could find for this article. But as I said, it would be tempting to work out an understanding of Marx not only up against Feuerbach but with some other contemporaries. So we get this paper on F, M and Bloch. A far different but interesting approach for me would be a reconciliation of socialism and Islamist movements, such as Hezbollah and the Sadrist Resistance in Iraq. The US and much of Europe under the tutelage of the hegemon have taken the world down a path to hell in this regard. CJ --- http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a713994384~db=all Religion and communism: Feuerbach, Marx and Bloch Author: Vincent Geoghegan DOI: 10.1080/1084877042000306352 Publication Frequency: 7 issues per year Published in: journal The European Legacy, Volume 9, Issue 5 October 2004 , pages 585 - 595 Subjects: European History; European Studies; Philosophy; Formats available: PDF (English) Purchase Article: US$25.00 - buy now buy now add to cart buy now [ show other buying options ] Abstract Whilst Marx made scattered positive remarks about the details of communist society, he also made important negative indications. Religion features in this negativity: his critique of religion is withering, there is no mention of religious life in communism, and he is emphatic that religion will play no role in such a society. For Marx, one of the tangible freedoms of communism was freedom from religion. The critique of religion is fundamentally inscribed in the very genesis of Marx's thought, and Feuerbach is crucial to understanding Marx's strictures on religion. Yet Feuerbach also figures in Ernst Bloch's very positive approach to religion, which argues that communism involves the freedom to be religious, in the sense of opening up oneself and society to the gold-bearing seams of the religious experience. This essay explores how such different conceptions of the relationship between religion and communism both draw sustenance from Feuerbach. - MLA style citation: Geoghegan, Vincent. Religion and communism: Feuerbach, Marx and Bloch The European Legacy 9.5 (2004). 25 Sep. 2007 http://www.informaworld.com/10.1080/1084877042000306352 ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
[Marxism-Thaxis] Religion Marx (1)
Wise, Rick B. A. Religion Marx. Austin, TX: American Atheist Press, 1988. xv, 268 p. I must have purchased this book within a few years of its publication. I even remember Madelyn O'Hair talking about it and mentioning the dialectic on some video of some American Atheists Conference program or TV show if they had one. But I never even looked at it until a couple days ago, when I was suddenly seized with the impulse to ferret it out and look it over. I was curious not only for the analysis of Marx's view of religion but to check out what kind of a book American Atheist Press would publish on Marx, seeing as no American atheist or humanist association possesses the depth or breadth to analyze social structure and causality in a manner that would take into account Marx or Marxism. Wise claims his book is the first attempt to analyze the relation between religion and other aspects of Marx's thought. He says the analysis of the Marxian approach to religion has never got beyond two articles Lenin wrote on religion by 1909. I find this assertion mighty hard to swallow, but offhand I can only think of a few books on Marx and religion, one being Trevor Ling's book on religion in the West and India, which I read a few months ago. A search of the Library of Congress database by subject yielded only a few books in English. But I have to think I'm overlooking something. There are some glitches and some odd twists and turns in this book, but also much interesting content, scarce in English let alone atheist circles. One might being with the impression that there was something fundamentally wrong when the author sets out to examine the dialectical materialism of Marx, since Marx had nothing to do with the creation of what we know as dialectical materialism, though indeed his world view was dialectical and materialist. The author also sees no warrant for treating Marx distinct from Engels, as they both substantially agreed on everything and Engels acknowledged Marx as the master. However, these faulty starting points do not damage the book. Wise points out the conceptual discrepancies between Marx and Soviet Marxism throughout the book. He also organizes his presentation of Marx's development into thesis (Hegel), antithesis (Feuerbach), and synthesis (Marx's dialectical materialism), but this too does not damage the author's actual analysis. Wise draws on some curious sources. He draws on Soviet sources for Soviet Marxism, naturally, and other introductions to dialectical materialism, which does not confuse with Marx's thought. He also draws upon Christian socialists of an earlier era, whom no one thinks about today--Julius Hecker and John Macmurray, for example. Before we get to a treatment of Marx's own views, Wise presents something one does not often find in English, and even more rarely in atheist circles--a summary of the development of Hegelian thinking on religion between Hegel and Marx. Wise does rely heavily on Engels' characterizations of Hegel and begins with the dichotomy of method and system and the inversion metaphor. Nevertheless, the key issue under examination is the notion of world as the manifestitation of the Idea and the contradiction between Hegel's logicism and the empirical content of his view of historical development. Of greatest interest, though, is the simplicity and clarity of Wise's explication of Feuerbach, the weaknesses Marx found in him, and the development of Hegelian thought via Strauss, Bauer, Feuerbach, and Stirner. You don't get this often in philosophical works in English, with quotes as well, and not in atheist literature where this material most emphatically belongs. ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Religion Marx
One problem is Feuerbach often gets schematized as a stepping stone from Hegel to Marx in the 'progress' of the history of thought. It would tempting to deal with a host of other 19th century thinkers AND Marx. For some in European traditions, it might be interesting to re-visit Sartre, as a synthesis (put simplistically) of Marx and Kierkegaard. Not looking so much at 'Marxist approaches to religion' but simply religion and Marx at what is on the web, and I find the following of interest: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/religion/index.htm http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/religion/book-revelations.htm Still, in the Engels' piece I think we could say this is a Marxist approach to religion (to hermeneutics, which were, as far as I know, originally German Christian hermeneutics before the post-modern episteme gave us things like 'Wittgenstinian approaches to hermeneutics'). CJ ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
